Lurrus sucks in Modern what are you talking about. It's more than fine. Hell, it's a welcome change of pace because it encourages durdling. Which is not a thing that is often found in Modern. You wanna talk about bannings in modern? I would kill Amulet Titan already. And what are you doing with Lurrus in pioneer that is so broken anyways???
damn these people. none of the bans actually matter to me, but they just keep banning and banning. remember when they used to UNBAN stuff? the most common thing used to be to ease the sting by giving something back, now they just take.
in all honesty, these are bans on cards that should never have existed in the first place. expect to continue to see this. this is the new business model: print busted cards to simulate sales and ban when it's time.
I don't think Oko will get banned in Modern (and I'm speaking as a Modern player). He's too vulnerable to immediate hard removal like Assassin's Trophy and Abrupt Decay (he makes a Food token immediately quite often), the counterspells and targeted discard in Modern nab him quickly and harshly enough (heck, Mystical Dispute has risen in maindecks)
Perhaps I am missing something here, but the cards you mention are also legal in Pioneer so why were Pioneer decks having such a difficult time against this particular planeswalker? Trying to use Thoughtseize and Negate were not good enough against other decks? Caveat: I have not played a game of MtG in about a year so there may be nuances I am missing.
Lightning Bolt and Inquisitions are huge reasons why. Also modern is significantly faster than pioneer. Most modern decks don't care about Oko. The only deck that plays it is Urza and that deck doesn't even need to.
I feel like this is confirmation that the higher ups at WotC had no faith in this set's ability to sell based off of a combination of its themes, setting and lack of a Jacetice League member, so they relied on the tried and true method of adding a couple pushed cards to the set to ensure it sold well. Play Design had been doing such a great job, this is really the only reason I can think of for why this set has experienced so many problems.
I mean everyone immediately knew Oko was going to be oppressively good. There is no way Play Design missed that, or let it slip through the cracks.
The more I read about play design and the more I think a lot of people's hate is super misguided. Play design DOES NOT design cards with the purpose of sales. That is NOT their role. I don't believe for a second that that's their main goal when designing cards.
Reading the last article about play design really helps puts things in perspective, in my opinion. What's been happening is that they have actually powered down standard quite a bit but have pushed a few cards really far in one direction. So that's why some of these seem so egregious. To be completely honest, it's better to push the envelop than to hold back. Sometimes things come together super well and other times, they don't. They have no way to predict what the meta will look like (consider that there's only like 20 of them vs the collective hive mind when it comes to play testing). Mistakes will slip through. The problem, and i hope they scale this back, is 3 mana planeswalkers. These tend to be too strong when you have 1 drop acceleration available in standard. Hell even without acceleration, we all know how strong 3 mana walkers are (too efficient). If you bumped both Teferi and Oko up to 4 mana, they are nowhere near as oppressive (as your opponent will have had time to build a board).
Additionally, WotC has mentioned that they would be more aggressive to correct metagames with bannings. I'm totally on board with this. In fact, the truth is that in the past, they should have been more proactive to address bad metagames.
I understand that some players may feel frustrated with this, but without the ability to "nerf" cards, this is the only way.
Veil of summer is an insanely overpowered card. It's a 1 mana "cryptic command". Hell, it's even begun to see main deck play.
Narset was actually a problem in vintage (like a serious one) but i'm surprised they care enough to have done that.
W6 doesn't surprise me. The interaction with wasteland is oppressive. However, I think this is too bad because it keeps mana bases honest, which is pretty cool. This does provide an alternative for players who want to enter the format. If your deck is good vs wasteland, you stand a chance vs all the big decks.
Green has been pushed quite a bit since the last Innistrad. I think every color will get it's time to shine. Eventually, that might even be white!
20 bucks a booster pack is absolutely absurd, even if they do come with cool extended art cards or whatever. it's just too much money. I'd be much more onboard with it if they were cheaper, but as it is I don't like it.
huh? this is the weirdest thing i read so far.
400 000 dollars for a house? that's way too expensive! if it were cheaper id buy one.
20 000 for a new car? that's way too expensive! if it were cheaper, id buy one.
20 dollars for a hobby you're in no way obligated to spend money for (in any capacity)? ya let's complain about the real problems...
cmon dude. this doesnt impede on your ability to buy regular product or even play the game.
you post comes across incredibly whinny and self entitled.
not surprising. it's not a magic card. but i think that they missed big time on banning looting. that card is horrendous. and good opp to let stoneforge out but ya... too strong apparently.
Looting is not a problem. It hasn't been a problem since it was printed. Stop asking for WotC to ban enabler cards. If you want a less powerful format go back to Standard.
BFB being the only change is kind of weak. There are multiple cards that could come off the list. The most safe being SFM.
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
not surprising. it's not a magic card. but i think that they missed big time on banning looting. that card is horrendous. and good opp to let stoneforge out but ya... too strong apparently.
No, you are wrong, and my position is backed by WotC NOT banning Looting. Sorry you have an incorrect understanding of the word "broken". Looting is not broken. Slowing down Modern is basically asking for Modern to become Standard. There are multiple decks in all 3 arches that can compete in Modern. That's format health.
oh yes, and WOTC is never wrong.........
Modern IS only 3 decks:
Tron (of the eldrazi variant)
Phoenix
Hoggaak
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
If you honestly think Modern is just those three decks, I no longer believe you play Modern.
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
I saw way too many Humans and UW Control decks in paper tournament Top 8 results this month.
You may want to check www.tcdecks.net, especially its "Metagame of Last Month" section; a clear majority of the Modern results it gets are from paper tournaments.
For the record, I only remember Eldrazi Tron spiking within the last few days in MTGO results; it wasn't so hot in the early Hogaak days, from my recollection.
What I'm trying to get at is to say that Modern is genuinely NOT as diverse as people want to think it is. There was an article not too long ago that discussed this very facet (cannot recall who had written it but I think it might have been Ari Lax). Cards like faithless looting are an issue because it tends to homogenize archetypes (as it's clearly one of - if not- the most powerful thing you can do in modern). A healthy and varied format would contain aggro, midrange, control decks. What we are seeing are mostly just combo decks that ignore entirely what their opponents are doing.
Ok we have UW control, Burn and Jund. Those are 3 decks representing the major archetypes. However, when you look at the decklists that are consistently winning, these are not the decks (deck types) that represent the format. What you see are decks that look at minimizing the interaction and ensuring that their opponents have virtually no windows to respond. This in turn makes the games more much like a coin toss (going first is significantly better in modern, to the point of being the difference between a win and a loss). Cards like blood moon, chalice of the void, rest in peace etc create a non-zero number of non-games. These tend to be the cards most represented.
In addition to that, pros also agree with me that looting is a card that will need to be banned (at some point in the future). It's not like i'm talking out of my ass. It's the "subtle" glue that holds so many of these linear combo decks together.
Faithless isn't the only card i'd like to see gone. But it would be a start.
Insanely strong planeswalker. This on turn 3 is a major threat for most decks. The only "problem" is that there is an arguably better card - Teferi, Time Raveler - at the same CMC, and which conveniently is a great answer to a turn 3 Yianling.
Ok please help me understand what i'm missing that makes you think that this is a powerful walker??? I even forgot about teferi which is leagues better than this card.
1
1
in all honesty, these are bans on cards that should never have existed in the first place. expect to continue to see this. this is the new business model: print busted cards to simulate sales and ban when it's time.
1
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Lightning Bolt and Inquisitions are huge reasons why. Also modern is significantly faster than pioneer. Most modern decks don't care about Oko. The only deck that plays it is Urza and that deck doesn't even need to.
7
The more I read about play design and the more I think a lot of people's hate is super misguided. Play design DOES NOT design cards with the purpose of sales. That is NOT their role. I don't believe for a second that that's their main goal when designing cards.
Reading the last article about play design really helps puts things in perspective, in my opinion. What's been happening is that they have actually powered down standard quite a bit but have pushed a few cards really far in one direction. So that's why some of these seem so egregious. To be completely honest, it's better to push the envelop than to hold back. Sometimes things come together super well and other times, they don't. They have no way to predict what the meta will look like (consider that there's only like 20 of them vs the collective hive mind when it comes to play testing). Mistakes will slip through. The problem, and i hope they scale this back, is 3 mana planeswalkers. These tend to be too strong when you have 1 drop acceleration available in standard. Hell even without acceleration, we all know how strong 3 mana walkers are (too efficient). If you bumped both Teferi and Oko up to 4 mana, they are nowhere near as oppressive (as your opponent will have had time to build a board).
Additionally, WotC has mentioned that they would be more aggressive to correct metagames with bannings. I'm totally on board with this. In fact, the truth is that in the past, they should have been more proactive to address bad metagames.
I understand that some players may feel frustrated with this, but without the ability to "nerf" cards, this is the only way.
Veil of summer is an insanely overpowered card. It's a 1 mana "cryptic command". Hell, it's even begun to see main deck play.
Narset was actually a problem in vintage (like a serious one) but i'm surprised they care enough to have done that.
W6 doesn't surprise me. The interaction with wasteland is oppressive. However, I think this is too bad because it keeps mana bases honest, which is pretty cool. This does provide an alternative for players who want to enter the format. If your deck is good vs wasteland, you stand a chance vs all the big decks.
Green has been pushed quite a bit since the last Innistrad. I think every color will get it's time to shine. Eventually, that might even be white!
1
huh? this is the weirdest thing i read so far.
400 000 dollars for a house? that's way too expensive! if it were cheaper id buy one.
20 000 for a new car? that's way too expensive! if it were cheaper, id buy one.
20 dollars for a hobby you're in no way obligated to spend money for (in any capacity)? ya let's complain about the real problems...
cmon dude. this doesnt impede on your ability to buy regular product or even play the game.
you post comes across incredibly whinny and self entitled.
1
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
1
1
What I'm trying to get at is to say that Modern is genuinely NOT as diverse as people want to think it is. There was an article not too long ago that discussed this very facet (cannot recall who had written it but I think it might have been Ari Lax). Cards like faithless looting are an issue because it tends to homogenize archetypes (as it's clearly one of - if not- the most powerful thing you can do in modern). A healthy and varied format would contain aggro, midrange, control decks. What we are seeing are mostly just combo decks that ignore entirely what their opponents are doing.
Ok we have UW control, Burn and Jund. Those are 3 decks representing the major archetypes. However, when you look at the decklists that are consistently winning, these are not the decks (deck types) that represent the format. What you see are decks that look at minimizing the interaction and ensuring that their opponents have virtually no windows to respond. This in turn makes the games more much like a coin toss (going first is significantly better in modern, to the point of being the difference between a win and a loss). Cards like blood moon, chalice of the void, rest in peace etc create a non-zero number of non-games. These tend to be the cards most represented.
In addition to that, pros also agree with me that looting is a card that will need to be banned (at some point in the future). It's not like i'm talking out of my ass. It's the "subtle" glue that holds so many of these linear combo decks together.
Faithless isn't the only card i'd like to see gone. But it would be a start.
2
Ok please help me understand what i'm missing that makes you think that this is a powerful walker??? I even forgot about teferi which is leagues better than this card.