people thought the meta was going to slow down, even rdw, so it got a lot of hype initially. you really cannot rely on your opponent not playing something. even against control. not to mention late game, it's horrible (imo). same reasons furnace scamp is out.
maybe that's it, then. i didn't play that list for long, just about a week. i was just playing the same RDW list for a month or so and i wanted to play something else, but still red. i was mainly building out of what i had. but when i was playing my list, it was doing great. never had a chance to take it to FNM, but my play group has a fairly wide variety of standard competitive decks.
Chieftan is one of the most powerful lords standard legal...
The haste on himself and all other goblins is amazing! Think about this situation...
1 drop, arsonist
2 drop, war driver, swing for 1
3 drop, chieftan swing for 9 opponent at 10
turn 4 another 1 drop that can swing,+ brimstone can sometimes get there, any combination of brimstone and goblin grenade or grenade grenade or grenade reverb all get there, a wardriver (with haste due to lord) can get there, another lord might get there....
vs your phoenix list
1drop arsonist
2drop war driver swing for 1
3 drop phoenix swing for 7
leaving your opponent at 12
and yup thats not bad by any means but not amazing at all... if you are running phoenix over chieftain you should be playing RDW imo...
and your suggestion to drop beserker... its just wrong im sorry....
heros are going out of decks not into them. We want to be reaching on turn 4 and should increase our chances of that not trying to hero.
I have 4-0 standard daily online, and swept inni game day and first of 45 at a FNM with this approach and I really strongly advocate it. I don't want to discourage any ideas but I feel like the beserker and chieftan are way to important
I would like to see some results from someone who says cut chieftan and serk before I took it seriously
Goblins are just as powerful as RDW if you build it right but unfortunately has more variation and is more prone to board wipes so I dont expect pros to pick it up as many times they need the consistency when playing something lie a 9 round tournament.
what, so my list doesn't get a turn 4? lol. okay.. swing, gob nade, volley, game. but whatever you gotta do to make your list look better.
all that aside, i just feel if you want goblins, you want fast fast fast. you want to win by turn 4 or 5. i would agree that the heroes should probably go, but it's in there as a win more i guess. and to get past 1/x's. koth could work too. but honestly, i would want 3cmc to be the highest, and only 4-6 of those. you could even (in my list) take out the heroes all together and just add the zerkers in. don't get me wrong, i LOOOVE the berserkers in anything red, i guess i just got use to playing with the heroes. so in the end i would:
-3 heroes
-1 SSE
+4 SBB
and i wasn't saying my list was better or worse, just adding to the discussion
if nothing else, this seems like an extremely fun deck to play anywhere. personally, i think cryptoplasm needs a spot in this deck. 3 drop that gets to copy during every one of your upkeeps? YES!
my build had more of a combo feel, rather then control. but the combo was the control. with liquimetal coating and phyrexian metamorph, you can copy ANY permanent they play! and with that and master thief, you can steadily play what they play.
some other really good cards for this deck are mimic vat and volitian reins and grimgrin, corpse-born. mimic vat can get SOOOOO broken. volitian reins is pretty costly, but can nab up some plainswalkers or what-have-you. and with grimgrin, if need be you can just activate your vat and sac the creature, buff it, then atk and destroy their blockers, titans, good stuff.
but yeah, i agree that U/B would be the way to play it. U/R seems like it has potential, but i'm not sure if it's really that wise at this point in the game. with all the creature stealing spells, it's very intriguing though. steal a creature, atk, fling much?
either take the discussion there or bring it bake here, it's cool either way lol.
to deal with spellskite i just force it to block and then burn it...
i dont like the weird RDW/goblins version...
although we share some points with RDW (specially in the sideboard) i think that mixing the maindeckks is usually subpar... (on koth and stromkirk noble)
i agree, that's why you take them out and replace them with wardrivers and straight burn lol. trust me.
and i've said it once and i'll say it again. goblin chieftain sucks. you do not NEED a lord for a goblins deck, just a playset of goblin grenades and brimstone volley. not even to combo with, just to have because you know you're going to have creatures dying. phoenix fit so much better in here as a 3 drop.
im gonna jump in and probably be completely wrong...
I like the pump, but as a 2 cost i think competing with shrine and beserker i dont think it has room in the deck. I know which cards i want to play as 2 costs.
no i completely agree. and to be honest, i think i would even rather put out two 1drops instead of him. just lackluster. he would be a lot better if he was a 1/2
gut shot just has far more uses. mana-less bloodthirst trigger, T1 play then gut shot their mana dork, still unexpectedly kills a nexus, damage yourself in response to a timely.
at first everyone thought BSV was going to be the bees knees. in the end, it doesn't consistently show it's worth to be played over VC.
having said that, volley is far greater then charge in a goblin aggro deck. your turn 4 play becomes GG an arsonist, then BSV to their face for 11. you could even get rid of a titan or wurmcoil with that move.
i feel like 3 is the perfect number if your going to run them. there really is a lot more uses for them then one might think on first thought or just glancing at the card. they've all been said though, so i'm not going to repeat lol.
what are peoples thoughts on this guy? i could see him being more suited to big red, but do you think he could take the place of our phoenix?
agreed, +1 here
what, so my list doesn't get a turn 4? lol. okay.. swing, gob nade, volley, game. but whatever you gotta do to make your list look better.
all that aside, i just feel if you want goblins, you want fast fast fast. you want to win by turn 4 or 5. i would agree that the heroes should probably go, but it's in there as a win more i guess. and to get past 1/x's. koth could work too. but honestly, i would want 3cmc to be the highest, and only 4-6 of those. you could even (in my list) take out the heroes all together and just add the zerkers in. don't get me wrong, i LOOOVE the berserkers in anything red, i guess i just got use to playing with the heroes. so in the end i would:
-3 heroes
-1 SSE
+4 SBB
and i wasn't saying my list was better or worse, just adding to the discussion
3 kuldotha phoenix
2 molten-tail masticore
4 goblin arsonist
3 goblin fireslinger
2 perilous myr
4 volt charge
3 tezerets gambit
2 lux cannon
3 incinerate
2 arc trail
20 mountain
my brain just kinda pooped this out. needs tons of work, but there's some decent stuff in there..
Apostle's Blessing uses phyrexian mana, so you could run it anyway.
THREAD
if nothing else, this seems like an extremely fun deck to play anywhere. personally, i think cryptoplasm needs a spot in this deck. 3 drop that gets to copy during every one of your upkeeps? YES!
my build had more of a combo feel, rather then control. but the combo was the control. with liquimetal coating and phyrexian metamorph, you can copy ANY permanent they play! and with that and master thief, you can steadily play what they play.
some other really good cards for this deck are mimic vat and volitian reins and grimgrin, corpse-born. mimic vat can get SOOOOO broken. volitian reins is pretty costly, but can nab up some plainswalkers or what-have-you. and with grimgrin, if need be you can just activate your vat and sac the creature, buff it, then atk and destroy their blockers, titans, good stuff.
but yeah, i agree that U/B would be the way to play it. U/R seems like it has potential, but i'm not sure if it's really that wise at this point in the game. with all the creature stealing spells, it's very intriguing though. steal a creature, atk, fling much?
either take the discussion there or bring it bake here, it's cool either way lol.
i agree, that's why you take them out and replace them with wardrivers and straight burn lol. trust me.
and i've said it once and i'll say it again. goblin chieftain sucks. you do not NEED a lord for a goblins deck, just a playset of goblin grenades and brimstone volley. not even to combo with, just to have because you know you're going to have creatures dying. phoenix fit so much better in here as a 3 drop.
no i completely agree. and to be honest, i think i would even rather put out two 1drops instead of him. just lackluster. he would be a lot better if he was a 1/2
3R flashback for 1 damage? nah...
having said that, volley is far greater then charge in a goblin aggro deck. your turn 4 play becomes GG an arsonist, then BSV to their face for 11. you could even get rid of a titan or wurmcoil with that move.