So I have a month to prepare for a Modern PTQ and I want to play some kind of Pod (Melira/Angel/Mel-Kiki) but from a meta standpoint it has to be horrible with LSV doing so well. I can see Tron and Affinity beating me up all day, Affinity especially since trading Melira for AofThune we are exposed to a Inkmoth victory we were protected from before.
I will probably go for it anyway, where is the forum on anti Tron and Affinity tech?
Just curious, considering I have been active and contributing to the forum for the last few weeks, why has it been closed? I could understand it possibly being moved form it's present home, but shut down? It is still a viable and active deck!
The double body is a pain, but no it is not a must kill. I have countered it on gp at times, and it is probably the best reason to care about having a sync main deck.
Garruk (either one) is actually a pretty slow clock. I've had a lot of success with Planar Cleansing and Restoration Angel. Against Jund, I am bringing in Appetite for Brains and Negate anyway.
Also, you may find some success with something like Murder or Devour Flesh instead of Oblivion Ring. If you're tapping out, you're inviting the opponent to resolve their haymaker. They are much less likely to run out their planeswalkers into open mana.
How exactly does murder or Devour flesh help against a planeswalker? I would love an instant speed answer to them, it is not that I am worried about the clock, I would just like to be able to combat a resolved Garruk or Lilianna. I am thinking at his point that MORE rings may be the answer, would also help against ground seal, not that it is a BIG problem.
So I had a good weekend with esper, FNM and a GPT on Saturday. Ignoring some poor play on my part everything went very well.
My incidents of poor play:
Sleeved up Architect of Thought thinking it was Memory Adept on Friday. Put me on tilt all night and I still managed a reasonable result, thought I would have won out with the SuperMill.
I also HAD a bad habit of tapping 5 for Far/Away and only saying "Far [target]" or "[Target] is Far". After a rules lawyer and a bad judges call lost me a round that habit is now GONE. Word to the wise, specify modes and ALL targets at Competitive REL.
Good news and further points:
Crypt Incursion is nuts. The act of gaining 30+ life in response to an Alpha Strike from a guy with a library in the high teens can be soul crushing, following it up with a sweeper is just plain mean
Curse worked very well against the speedy Jund stuff, but I am gonna test Blind Obediance as a faster option.
Biggest problem was always monocolored Planeswalkers, especially Garruk in both forms. Need better answers than Rings, counters and Rifts. Might just need to suck it up and only get one hit from Jace, but I would prefer another answer.
I don't know as to say which is best, but you have hit upon the basic division in Esper decks, the tap out aggro/planeswalker build or the draw-go all-in for mill approach.
I am playing the mill style, because it is an uncounterable kill, but it can make for a stressful game. Sitting at 8 life when you can finally sweep the board and stabilize is not a gameplan for the faint of heart. but being able to essentially make them play with dead cards game 1 is too good an advantage to pass on.
The only comment to your list I would make is the bad interaction between renouce the guilds and detention Sphere, be aware of it, know that the option to correct exists in Oblivion ring, but if you prefer your choice be aware that Renounce does affect you too.
I love the look on their face when when i kill their Strangleroot Geist or Hound of Griselbrand and before their undying trigger resolves cast Crypt Incursion to remove it from their graveyard.
Most players that play undying forget their creatures have to go to the graveyard first before it comes back into play. If you run Purify the Grave against renamimator this will work too. Its pretty hilarious.
I forgot about that myself, might make it worth going back to 3 crypts over all.
Many funny things happened... like in the t8 where my opponent opened with mountain, mountain, burning tree, burning tree, mauler go for 4 and myself opening with hallowed fountain tapped, miracling terminus. I even made a player throw his deck around the room and get DQed when he got me at 3 for 4 turns until i played snapcaster mage on crypt incursion with 3 mana open to use my dissipate on whatever burn spell he might throw at me.
Gotta love a good rage/quit, especially with an agro/burn player that can't understand why they have no long game against control.
Well, all things considered I still say Warped Physique is subpar.
You are playing what has been called a Tapout strategy, so I will withhold real commentary because I am playing a Draw Go version and I have no experience with that style. I will say that 3 is too many Crypt Incursion, Reap Intellect is not that good and I would look at sac effects before I did, -x/-x anything.
i guess i have been using it wrong, what a dumb mistake. Reading is tech.
After some more testing tonight i was able to fit in the MD Crypt Incursion by cutting Jace to 2, and tweaked the SB a little more. We'll see how FNM goes i guess. Acidic Slime and Sin Collector can be an absolute beating. syncopate might fit in 3/2 split dissipate/synco just to have an answer for those turn 2 collectors if i'm lucky if i decide to do it that way i'll cut lili to 2. For right now the list looks like this. I like how the SB looks right now, but please do mention any big holes you see.
EDIT: I'm also testing Tragic Slip in Dead Weight's place. probably be better playing with 4 snapcasters because of opportunity, but still kills most turn 1 plays minus cackler, and Kills Falkenrath Aristocrat with ease.
Probably the same reason I do, it is somewhat situational like the syncopate. and when you can really screw up their attacks with the fast effect miniwrath it is backbreaking.
In the one game I got the boost I really love from playing this deck, I got called lucky (!) because I survived 12 turns against an aggressive Naya build before putting it away with Jace.
So I have been playing this deck a few different ways, and I think I am gonna go a 4 snap augurless version with no other creatures, I think the problem is the even though it has been nice to see augur in my opening 7, I really have had too many Jaces and Drownyards sent to the bottom of the pile. I may try one more time swapping in Planars for rings, but I really think they are done.
Sideboard is the real issue, not having the good feeling I think I should. Got the random Aetherling, a couple of sweepers and one ofs to make 2-3 ofs maindeck, and syncopoate, even though I still hate it, discard and counters and witchorb.
I would really like to run illness or Curse, is there anyone that wants to talk me out of it?
While Nephalia Drownyards are available, Esper should be running them. They're an uncounterable win-condition and no one is playing 4 Ghost Quarters in their decks.
I agree, and we aren't putting up the kind of numbers that would require players TO run them.
I would run Orings if I didn't have quite so much of a Token presence at my store right now. As soon as it dies down, I'll make the appropriate changes to my list.
See that was why I thought I needed spheres too, but I haven't really run into guys that will throw out a whole bunch of the same one like that. Nobody really running Sorin.
The obvious parallels are Rakdos's Return and Slaughter Games ... both of these are cards that have been played successfully in the past, usually as 2-ofs in sideboards. They both are cards that have been primarily used to fight decks that rely on a strong long game and/or a specific trump card. Basically, if your opponent actively wants to make their 6th land drop, you board in this high-powered hand/deck disruption to neuter their long game plans. Decks I think usually care about this include Esper, Bant control, Jund midrange, Junk Reanimator, most varieties of UWR ... that's a fair number of decks and a fair percentage of any given tournament.
Reap Intellect will seriously punish any of these decks that allow it to resolve. It's harder to topdeck out of than Rakdos's Return, and unlike Slaughter Games it always hits something in their hand. And this isn't the sort of tool that Esper has had before. I think it's worth a second look.
What did I miss? What are your suggestions to play in such a meta?
Sounds like a lot of target player, witchbane orb seems like a good answer.
By the way, I just realized it sounds like I think I know what I am doing, nothing could be further from the truth. I suck at sideboarding and completely lack confidence or a coherent plan, so please someone that knows something help these people
I will probably go for it anyway, where is the forum on anti Tron and Affinity tech?
It looks like it is the answer to the UW question at least.
2 Temple of Deceit
4 Mutavault
2 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
2 Ultimate Price
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Underworld Connections
1 Dark Betrayal
2 Doom Blade
3 Lifebane Zombie
1 Pithing Needle
2 Devour Flesh
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Duress
How exactly does murder or Devour flesh help against a planeswalker? I would love an instant speed answer to them, it is not that I am worried about the clock, I would just like to be able to combat a resolved Garruk or Lilianna. I am thinking at his point that MORE rings may be the answer, would also help against ground seal, not that it is a BIG problem.
My incidents of poor play:
Sleeved up Architect of Thought thinking it was Memory Adept on Friday. Put me on tilt all night and I still managed a reasonable result, thought I would have won out with the SuperMill.
I also HAD a bad habit of tapping 5 for Far/Away and only saying "Far [target]" or "[Target] is Far". After a rules lawyer and a bad judges call lost me a round that habit is now GONE. Word to the wise, specify modes and ALL targets at Competitive REL.
Good news and further points:
Crypt Incursion is nuts. The act of gaining 30+ life in response to an Alpha Strike from a guy with a library in the high teens can be soul crushing, following it up with a sweeper is just plain mean
Curse worked very well against the speedy Jund stuff, but I am gonna test Blind Obediance as a faster option.
Biggest problem was always monocolored Planeswalkers, especially Garruk in both forms. Need better answers than Rings, counters and Rifts. Might just need to suck it up and only get one hit from Jace, but I would prefer another answer.
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Godless Shrine
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Nephalia Drownyard
4 Watery Grave
// Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
// Spells
4 Azorius Charm
1 Crypt Incursion
3 Dissipate
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Think Twice
1 Renounce the Guilds
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Terminus
2 Far/Away
2 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Dissipate
1 Renounce the Guilds
2 Terminus
1 AEtherling
2 Negate
2 Witchbane Orb
1 Syncopate
2 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Sever the Bloodline
1 Cyclonic Rift
Comments, questions, concerns?
I am playing the mill style, because it is an uncounterable kill, but it can make for a stressful game. Sitting at 8 life when you can finally sweep the board and stabilize is not a gameplan for the faint of heart. but being able to essentially make them play with dead cards game 1 is too good an advantage to pass on.
The only comment to your list I would make is the bad interaction between renouce the guilds and detention Sphere, be aware of it, know that the option to correct exists in Oblivion ring, but if you prefer your choice be aware that Renounce does affect you too.
I forgot about that myself, might make it worth going back to 3 crypts over all.
Gotta love a good rage/quit, especially with an agro/burn player that can't understand why they have no long game against control.
You are playing what has been called a Tapout strategy, so I will withhold real commentary because I am playing a Draw Go version and I have no experience with that style. I will say that 3 is too many Crypt Incursion, Reap Intellect is not that good and I would look at sac effects before I did, -x/-x anything.
Probably the same reason I do, it is somewhat situational like the syncopate. and when you can really screw up their attacks with the fast effect miniwrath it is backbreaking.
4 [M13] Drowned Catacomb
4 [M13] Glacial Fortress
3 [DGM] Godless Shrine
4 [DGM] Hallowed Fountain
1 [RTR] Island (1)
3 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
4 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
4 [DGM] Watery Grave
// Creatures
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
// Spells
4 [RTR] Azorius Charm
1 [DGM] Crypt Incursion
3 [DDJ] Dissipate
4 [RTR] Sphinx's Revelation
4 [ISD] Think Twice
1 [DGM] Renounce the Guilds
2 [M13] Oblivion Ring
4 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
2 [AVR] Terminus
2 [DGM] Far/Away
2 [M13] Jace, Memory Adept
In the one game I got the boost I really love from playing this deck, I got called lucky (!) because I survived 12 turns against an aggressive Naya build before putting it away with Jace.
Sideboard is the real issue, not having the good feeling I think I should. Got the random Aetherling, a couple of sweepers and one ofs to make 2-3 ofs maindeck, and syncopoate, even though I still hate it, discard and counters and witchorb.
I would really like to run illness or Curse, is there anyone that wants to talk me out of it?
I agree, and we aren't putting up the kind of numbers that would require players TO run them.
See that was why I thought I needed spheres too, but I haven't really run into guys that will throw out a whole bunch of the same one like that. Nobody really running Sorin.
Sounds like a lot of target player, witchbane orb seems like a good answer.
By the way, I just realized it sounds like I think I know what I am doing, nothing could be further from the truth. I suck at sideboarding and completely lack confidence or a coherent plan, so please someone that knows something help these people