Your FACTS are incorrect or derived from contradictory sources.
Test of Metal has essentially been written out of canon by subsequent lore, for one, and stood as an aberration in continuity to begin with.
Karn's past in your thesis is also incomplete with the available KNOWN information.
My facts about Karn and his progenitors are based on The Thran, Artifacts Cycle, Masquerade Cycle, Invasion Cycle, Onslaught Cycle, the first book of Time Spiral Cycle, and forums/wikis for the final two books of Time Spiral Cycle. Like I said before, I do not have access to the Mirrodin Cycle books, but I have read synopses online, in addition to wikis and forums, specifically this site. What facts about Karn am I missing? He was one of my favorite characters, so taking into account that I have not had occasion to read the Mirrodin Cycle, nor the last two books of Time Spiral Cycle, nor Quest for Karn (which by god I will never read because Wintermute is terrible), it worries me that I may have overlooked something outside of those books. Of the books and sources I've read, which are contradictory sources? Let me know. My facts about Nicol Bolas' ambitions are likewise based on available lore. Is he not power hungry? Let me know.
Aside from that, you are ignoring the obvious direction that each of the characters in question are heading, and it is NOT towards each other. Karn is deeply attached, as stated, to the Phyrexian story-arcs, which are fairly far removed from Bolas's plans.
If you want to point out Tezzeret's presence, then I will direct you to the fact that Tezzeret was specifically placed to destabilize the phyrexians, not to harness them.
You know for a fact that the Phyrexians are far removed from Bolas' plans? Sounds like baseless speculation, unless you can provide a source. To me, it seems Bolas' plans were at least in some way connected to Phyrexians if he cared enough to tell Tezzeret to interfere with their hierarchy. Why else issue that directive? And who said anything about harnessing Phyrexians? And where did Tezzeret's presence have any significance in what I wrote, besides being sent to Mirrodin and thinking Bolas wanted to kill planeswalkers?
http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/art...swalkers/week1
It references natural talent, but this does NOT equate to power. It specifically states that a planeswalker must draw their power from the land and that their sorcerous power is derived from the wider availability of spells and mana bonds... NOT the spark.
I quote: "The most commonly held theory . . .", from the link you provided. Sounds like there are other theories about planeswalker sparks.
It has, in the past, been described as piece of the Blind Eternities, aether, which isn't a power or energy, but rather a substance.... or quasi-substance.
It isn't a power or energy? Then of what significance is the aether-infused etherium?
The major problem here is that you have nothing to dictate if A^2 can exist, or if C already has A, you can add another A. The math does not add up since C is in fact NOT exclusively B, but B+A. In the same fashion as all squares are rectangles, all rectangles are not squares, and the rules that apply to squares may be unique to squares.
I'm not sure that you fully understand the rules of logic, so I'll work through this one in depth. Let's use different words to simplify it and make it more relatable. Dollars can be transferred to the needy. Jim is needy. Therefore, dollars can be transferred to Jim. Planeswalker sparks can be transferred to people. Planeswalkers are people. Therefore, planeswalker sparks can be transferred to planeswalkers. You say C is B+A? So dollars are the needy? And Jim does not need to be the only needy person. It suffices that he is needy, and so dollars can be transferred to him. It's pretty simple logic. We've established A (planeswalker sparks can be transferred) and B (people), and C (planeswalkers), such that C is part of B (again, C does not need to be all of B, it just needs to be part of B). It is logical to say that planeswalkers can receive planeswalker sparks. Again, there is no logical reason this would not be so, since the lore has not yet stated that planeswalkers can't have or receive at the very least redundant additional sparks. Once we have that information, it will either remain the logical equation it is (that is, it can happen), or it will be adjusted (Planeswalker sparks can only go to people who are not planeswalkers. A planeswalker is a planeswalker, so planeswalker sparks cannot go to them).
It is important to gather as MUCH information as possible. Out of the known information we have, you are missing pieces which are vital to your hypothesis.
I have gathered as much information as I possibly can. I've stated this on several occasions. If you are holding out, tell us more. I have two hypotheses. The first is that Karn and Bolas will inevitably, in the far future, be diametrically opposed. The arguments against this are more of flavor and opinion than about missing information pieces. The second relates to the cause of that conflict, and is that planeswalker sparks can be transferred to others, that those others may include planeswalkers, and that a spark is not just benign transportation ability but something more. Even you state it is tethered to the aether, and since etherium seems to be powerful when infused with the aether, I am left with a much stronger conviction to believe the spark has some power. You disagree, but I'm not sure which missing pieces you are holding close to the chest that are unavailable to me.
Again, please provide sources that you rely on to say that planeswalkers cannot receive other sparks. I am basing my position on logic and available post-Mending lore, lore which we can at least agree states that a spark can be transferred. It can't just be dismissed as baseless. But, I always seek out additional information. You'll note that I continuously ask for more information.
Sorin visited several planes after he fled from Zendikar, they were strongly implied to be victims of the Eldrazi's consumption, but they hadn't collapsed. Everything had just been turned to dust and rendered lifeless, which is consistent with the Eldrazi's effects, as observed in several sources.
Was this in Teeth of Akoum? I could never get through to the finish of that book, and my information on Eldrazi is limited since I was never really interested in them. I had just always taken their destruction of planes to mean just that, not just nothingness on a plane.
As pointed out, there were three individuals that knew of the machine. None of them are in a position to share what they know with Bolas.
Is this based on the Mirrodin Cycle books? What I know of those books I have gleaned from many different synopses. I know the events as they happened, but not specifics (like who was where, or that the machine was destroyed). But that brings up an interesting question: Who was the greater intellectual/more intelligent, Bolas, or Memnarch? If Memnarch could discern a way to to transfer sparks based off of the Legacy Weapon that turned Karn into a planeswalker, would Bolas also be able to think of that? The Legacy Weapon is not as much a secret as Memnarch's machine was.
Assuming that Memnarch's machine could be used to transfer sparks into already existing planeswalkers and that that would make Bolas a godlike being, then couldn't Bolas be using the Eldrazi to harvest mana and sending the massive amounts of mana generated by the destruction of Zendikar to New Phyrexia to absorb Tezzeret's spark and turn him into a god? (I know that I am reaching here)
I had a similar line of thought, but instead of using Mirrodin, I was wondering if Bolas might use the Eldrazi to weaken planes generally. Urza collapsed Serra's realm into a powerstone to create unfathomable power. If Bolas thinks that he can squeak in and absorb a collapsing natural plane, weakened by the Eldrazi, before the Eldrazi can finish consuming it, that would be interesting. Generally, it is artificial planes prone to collapse. But I'm wary of the Speculation Hammer of God in this thread, so I'll end this with a tip of my hat.
The machine was destroyed with its use.
As well, Bolas literally COULD NOT know about it, seeing as he was dead at the time. The only three people still alive that knew anything about the machine are Glissa, Geth, and Karn.
Could not know about it during the 400 years between the fight with Tetsuo and the interaction with Teferi? Maybe. But saying that he still knows nothing about it, even now, is as absurd as saying he could not have knowledge of many of the significant events that happened between the fight with Tetsuo and the interaction with Teferi 400 years later. Bolas usually seems very, very well informed. Even if he was unaware of the specifics of the machine, I doubt he's ignorant of the possibility of transferring sparks.
Ultimately, I agree with your opinions about the spark, and that there is plenty reason to believe there is more to it, however, your idea about Nicol Bolas & Karn is not as factual as the rest you've contributed. I definitely am sure Nicol Bolas has a goal in mind with the specific events he put in motion. You may notice that the main 3 Planeswalkers Bolas has been pulling the strings on are Jace: Liliana: and Chandra: separate of his actual minions Tezzeret, Sarkhan, and Ramaz.
I agree that there is room for reasonable people to differ on the Karn vs. Bolas aspect. That's the main reason I posted this in the speculation forum. I hadn't noticed that trait specifically about the planeswalkers, but it seems to spread to all the ones he's interacted with, but for the fact that Sarkhan and Ramaz (presumably) have some interaction with green. But looking at Ajani, for instance. He stood up to Bolas and prevented him from becoming godlike again. But viscerally, I don't see him being the foil/counterpoint to Bolas. I think Karn's personal history points more in the direction of being the most likely planeswalker to step up to stop Bolas from becoming godlike than other planeswalkers, and I have to believe that there is some planeswalker out there that can stand up to Bolas without being obliterated. I keep in mind that Karn is an old-world planeswalker too, the inheritor of a great amount of power. If Bolas is still so powerful after the Mending, shouldn't Karn, the creator of Argentum, have more power after the Mending than the average planeswalker?
I can only assume the article is speaking in metaphor.
The only real strength of being a mage with an active spark over a planebound mage is the ability to form more manabonds and learn spells from other worlds.
It is nothing innate about the spark.
There's nothing within the lore that says that a person can't somehow come to possess multiple sparks, it's just that since post-mending sparks offer nothing more than the actual walking ability, having multiple sparks wouldn't offer any benefit over having a single spark.
I appreciate the time you took to read through my posts. While I am still not 100% convinced (though it seems I'm obviously in the minority), where can I read more about the changes in the spark in-depth, outside of forums/internet posts? The change in the lore surrounding planeswalker powers seemed sudden, and I felt it was Wizards' attempt to pave the way for planeswalker cards in play (since it would be absurd to have an immortal planeswalker card). I've tried my best to locate as much info as I can, but I am largely unsatisfied with what I've found. I respect your information, but like doubting Thomas I'd strongly prefer seeing it with my own eyes in an official form.
For the record, what makes this baseless speculation is the fact that you are operating off of flawed assumptions, apparently based on incomplete data and logical leaps which do not bear out.
Under which flawed assumptions am I operating? I stated fact about Karn's background. I stated fact about Bolas' ambitions. I stated fact about spark transfer possibility, and the history of spark transfers in the lore. Do you mean that my belief that Karn and Nicol Bolas, based on facts of their histories and the lore presented, will be diametrically opposed moving forward was a flawed assumption? That assertion is one about which reasonable people can differ, but it is not baseless, nor a logical leap. There has to be a foil against the villain. Karn seems best suited, but again, reasonable people can differ. See, this is the presentation of a thesis based on facts available. You can present an antithesis based on facts, and then we can synthesize. Or you can just say "Naaah, flawed assumption".
Or did you mean my belief that consuming multiple planeswalker sparks will lead to increased power was a flawed assumption? As I have not yet discovered an official source describing the true nature of the planeswalker spark post-Mending (for instance: if it is transferable (and it is), it must have form of some kind, ie. energy, which is power of a kind), the available official facts available, that I have presented, provide no answer to the question "Do planeswalker sparks still contain some kind of power?" It's actually simple logic. Planeswalker sparks can be transferred to people. Planeswalkers are people. Therefore, planeswalker sparks can be transferred to planeswalkers. A to all B's. C is a B. A to C. That's logic. Then, if the question "Since planeswalker sparks can be transferred, are they energy/power of some kind?" is answered in the affirmative, we have more very simple logic. Planeswalker sparks are energy/power of some kind. Planeswalker sparks can be transferred to people. Planeswalkers are people. Therefore, energy/power can be transferred to planeswalkers. A is B. B to all C's. D is a C. A to C. It's sound logic, and I'd liked to see where you are seeing something illogical. The only data missing is the question of whether a spark is energy/power of some kind.
And again, I can't state it more clearly, SPECULATION IS OPINION BASED ON INCOMPLETE INFORMATION! What post in the Speculation forum could withstand your gavel, if the requirement to post there (to be speculative) is a reason you say it should be withdrawn??
Let me stop you right there, because that is a fallacy. The burden of proof is not on us to disprove your theory, it is yours to provide a reason why it IS possible. We have no indication it is nor that it could be.
Further speculation along those lines is baseless which is against the subforum rules.
Let me stop you right there. #1: If you're making a claim that I'm arguing a fallacy, the only fallacy I could see you talking about is the appeal to ignorance, which is the exact same fallacy that hairlessThoctar presented and I was responding to. That fallacy was not my original proposal. I am not saying "prove me wrong". I am presenting a theory based on a lot of information. #2: As an attorney, I'd be interested in knowing to which burden of proof you refer. Because, as far as I can tell, speculation is basing an opinion on incomplete information. Is the burden then on me to provide complete information when none exists, therby removing it from speculation and transforming it into verifiable fact? The forum is called "Storyline Speculation". The rules of the forum state, in pertinent part:
"Baseless Speculation: If you have a theory or other speculative discussion, share it in the Speculation subforum! However, please put some thought into it before you make a post. Implausible ideas like "I believe Gerrard will come back from the dead as a planeswalker" are spam and will result in an infraction for Baseless Speculation. This forum is for educated speculation based on available resources, so your theory must still be based on known facts. If your argument boils down to "It could happen" or "They can do what they want" you shall be penalized appropriately." [Emphasis Added]
I have a theory and speculative discussion to present. I put some thought into it, and am making an educated speculation based on the sum of knowledge I have from extensive reading, and evidence of sparks being manipulated in the past in a variety of ways. I am basing my theory on known facts. My argument does not boil down to "it could happen"; it is based on a foundation that I have presented. If a spark can be moved to another body or into a powerstone, there is no available reason to suggest that an entity cannot contain more than one spark, or merge them together. Karn, when he became planeswalker, contained the power of a planeswalker in Glacian's powerstone, and the power of an entire plane from Weatherlight's powerstone. Both were within one person. Could the Weatherlight not planeshift? Did Karn not contain two different sources of planeshifting power? Why then would it be improbable for another planeswalker to contain two different sources of planeshifting power? I'm basing this off of books, not wild conjecture. If a spark can be transported into another person, I don't see why it couldn't be transported into another person who already has a spark. If you hold to the belief that the spark is benign transportation, then certainly a person could have two sparks (though you would argue it wouldn't improve them in any way), since transportation from one person to another is proven possible post-Mending, in the case of Venser and Karn. There is nothing in the lore describing a neowalker protection mechanism to prevent the combination of sparks. So, again, since we know sparks can be transported post-Mending (proven), and there is no collateral information informing us that it can't be transported into someone already with one, there is nothing currently to prevent the transportation of a benign spark into someone who already has one. Essentially, as things stand now, post-Mending, sparks can be transported into others, with no restriction as of yet.
I could also bring up http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Planeswalker%27s_spark, where it states: "After the Mending, the nature of a planeswalker's spark changed: they lost their invulnerability, immortality, shapeshifting and most of their additional magical power." [Emphasis added]
That seems a serious distinction. The end of the statement states "additional magic power", meaning what they did not have at first, then says "most." So, by operation of logic, they have at least some additional magic power after the Mending. Which means a spark could, based on this site's own wiki, possess additional substantive power besides a benign transportation ability, which means it could be of value to try to possess and consume, since we know they can be moved (even post-Mending. See: Venser, Karn).
If I posted only "Karn and Bolas are going to fight because I think Bolas can take someone else's spark, lul", that would be baseless. Also, if someone years ago had posted that they thought Venser would transport his spark and heart into Karn, based on nothing (since there is no foundation for such an idea), it would be foundationless, but eventually true. I have done that concept one better, and provided sufficient information to overcome that hurdle.
Note that every one of those examples you cite, as you point out, is pre-Mending. And what did the Mending do? It altered the nature of the spark. All the spark does now is give the 'walker the ability enter/exit the Blind Eternities. That's it. Sparks don't make 'walkers immortal (or else Liliana wouldn't have needed to strike all those demonic pacts and Bolas wouldn't need to be Bolasing all over Dominia), they don't make 'walkers smarter (or else Nissa wouldn't have been so slow on the uptake about Sorin), they don't make 'walkers better mages (the aforementioned Tezzy), they just keep the soul from being completely destroyed the minute the 'walker enters the Eternities.
I agree with most of what you wrote, since I also made the distinction that the examples we have are pre-Mending. I also agree with most of what you write about the spark, while tempering it with what I read and agree with in the above quoted segment from this site's wiki, which I reproduce here:
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Planeswalker%27s_spark, where it states: "After the Mending, the nature of a planeswalker's spark changed: they lost their invulnerability, immortality, shapeshifting and most of their additional magical power." [Emphasis added]
That seems a serious distinction. The end of the statement states "additional magic power", meaning what they did not have at first, then says "most." So, by operation of logic, they have some additional magic power after the Mending. Which means a spark could, based on this site's own wiki, possess additional substantive power besides a benign transportation ability, which means it could be of value to try to possess and consume, since we know they can be moved (even post-Mending. See: Venser, Karn).
So while I have read examples of neowalkers getting their ***es kicked by other non-walker mages, I do not think, based on the information I have available from neowalker related books and forums/internet posts, that the spark is just a skill for Multiverse teleportation.
Finally, since it is at the very least established that the spark can be transported into another person post-Mending, I would greatly appreciate the Moderators and other good people in this forum to provide well-founded examples and proof of why a redundant spark cannot be transported into another planeswalker if any such information exists, since we also agree planeswalkers are people too, so that I can adjust my information and belief accordingly.
There's nothing to suggest that one can possess multiple sparks, much less that such a thing makes one more powerful.
While there is nothing to suggest that one can possess multiple sparks, I haven't seen anything suggesting it's not possible. If it had been attempted, and that entity had failed, I would agree with your implication.
What's more, Karn is already an amalgamation of souls. Any number of those souls could potentially contain a spark, there is nothing to suggest that he would be any better off for it.
From everything I know, if you have the potential to be a planeswalker, and your spark is never activated, you can die without becoming a planeswalker. So the fact that the souls may contain an unactivated spark is of no moment.
A spark does not increase one's strength of Magic (Tezzeret and Venser are both terribly weak mages).
True that a spark does not increase one's strength in magic, and Tezzeret and Venser are decent examples. But sparks have been used to power things before, and are not necessarily affiliated with increasing magic power of any kind (more like specific kinds). The Nine Titans, for instance, had varying specialties which the others could not/did not have the knowledge/ability to do. They certainly became more powerful/immortal when they became planeswalkers, but they did not necessarily become experts in all things magic. They remained within their fields of expertise. As for powering, Glacian is an example. Then Urza powering a bomb with the soul/spark of Tevesh Szat. Then Karn using Glissa's spark from Slobad to restore the souls of the lost on Mirrodin (at least from what I've read online, since I haven't gotten access to the books yet). So it would seem to me that sparks have an inherent energy. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a use of a spark like that since the Mending. But I do not think the spark is like being born with an extra finger or a deviated septum, in that it's just a trait that is benign. I think it has some energy to it, especially in order to preserve the walker through the Blind Eternities.
This is my first time posting in the speculation forum. I’ve been having a thought tossing and turning in my head, and I figured other people interested in MtG storylines may be intrigued to a higher degree than the average MtG player. Also, this is a long read, and I put a lot of time into it, so I apologize for its length.
For some background, my MtG readings started with Arena, and include all the Thran/Urza/Weatherlight storylines, in addition to some others. Notably absent from my readings are the Mirrodin cycle, which was not important to me until I started thinking about this idea and is beyond my reach for now, and the last two books of the Time Spiral cycle. I’ve also read some planeswalker comics on the website, and two planeswalker books, Agents of Artifice and Test of Metal. Also important to this idea is The Quest for Karn, which I refused to read because Wintermute was so terrible an author for Teeth of Akoum. What I haven’t had a chance to read, I’ve read synopses of online in forums and wikis.
***If you haven't read those books, and haven't read forums/wikis dealing with storylines, ***SPOILER ALERT*** because they will be referenced below.*** And so...
I feel that there is going to be an inevitable conflict between Nicol Bolas and Karn. I feel they are kind of preordained to stand on opposite sides, with one not wanting the other to succeed. Historical patterns repeat themselves sometimes, and I think literary patterns do too.
The greatest threat to the Multiverse before the book Apocalypse was Phyrexia. Phyrexia may be back now on New Phyrexia, but the plane itself wasn’t the danger. It was Yawgmoth. Yawgmoth was the underlying evil of many a storyline. He rose to power in the Thran Empire, was placed by the planeswalker Dyfed as a god in an artificial plane he named Phyrexia, and was denied both access to a planeswalker spark and the plane of Dominaria by Rebbec and her husband Glacian, contained in the powerstone that sealed Phyrexia away. Yawgmoth wanted nothing more than to become a planeswalker and conquer Dominaria, his true home, and be as a god. But both were taken from him.
Now, from what I gather about Nicol Bolas, he once had something as well: something near to godhood. He bemoans the loss of his godlike powers routinely. His powers were sealed off from him by the Mending. Now, he is driven by a purpose very similar to Yawgmoth’s: retake what was taken from him, by whatever means necessary. For Yawgmoth, it was the destruction of Dominaria and a quest for a spark and godhood. For Bolas, it may be the destruction of the Multiverse in a quest for his godhood.
The greatest enemy of Phyrexia could be said to be Glacian, but the physical manifestation of that was Urza. Yawgmoth took something from Glacian (his wife, for the most part) and from Urza (his brother, primarily). United by blood, tears, and the sylex blast, Urza took up Glacian’s planeswalker spark, and his eyes became the two halves of the powerstone that contained Glacian. Urza then dedicated the rest of his immortal planeswalker life to defeating Yawgmoth and Phyrexia, to creating a Legacy of artifacts and a biological component to defeat Yawgmoth when he returned. Part of the Legacy was Karn, a silver golem who Urza originally designed to go back in time. During the Invasion cycle, Karn threw off his pacifism (which he had taken up upon killing an innocent years earlier) and engaged in violence for the greater good. When all seemed lost, Urza (or more importantly, his head), Karn, and Gerrard, the biological component of the Legacy, came together to destroy Yawgmoth once and for all. The process destroyed Urza, Gerrard, Karn, and the Weatherlight in a massive blast that sought out and killed Yawgmoth (or did it? I hate when stories change and vary). The result? The power of the blast transferred Glacian’s spark from Urza to Karn, who now embodied the power of the Legacy, the minds of Glacian, Urza, Gerrard, the sentient Weatherlight, and all those who had been consumed on Serra to power the Weatherlight. Karn then embodied the antithesis to Phyrexia and Yawgmoth. He was the collected and stored will to defend against consuming evil, manifested in planeswalker form.
Karn then created Argentum, a plane of metal. He stood among Serra, and the unknown planeswalker who created the plane that would be Phyrexia, as planeswalkers who had created artificial planes. His creation, Memnarch, would adulterate Argentum and make it Mirrodin. To make what must be a long story short, Memnarch eventually grew mad (mentally), and wanted to join his creator beyond Mirrodin. He wanted to make himself a planeswalker, a god like his god, Karn. It appears from what I’ve gathered on the internet that Memnarch eventually changed the plane of Mirrodin so that it was a massive device to transfer a planeswalker spark from one entity to another. The cost was a massive loss of life, which he was willing to do. He was willing to use any means necessary in his quest for a spark and godhood. While he ultimately failed in his quest, the spark he wanted, that which was within Glissa, was actually transferred to Slobad, the goblin (from what I’ve read). What became of the construct to transfer sparks, I do not know for certain (I don't have access to the books and rely on the internet). Again, it is clear that planeswalker sparks can be transferred. Apparently Venser transferred his heart/spark to Karn to liberate him from Phyrexians on Mirrodin/New Phyrexia, but as it was written by Wintermute, I have no idea what he intended and do not understand how a human mortal planeswalker organic heart can make Karn a planeswalker again. But I digress.
Tezzeret, planeswalker, was convinced that Bolas is seeking to kill planeswalkers in Test of Metal. Liliana Vess expressed a fear that Bolas could risk destruction of the Multiverse. These both entail the extinguishing of planeswalker sparks and massive loss of life. Bolas wants to be a god again. That is his quest. While we don’t know much about Bolas’ plans (and we know even less about his personality, I feel, since authors take liberties with his dialogue and make him sound like a teenager at times), we can be confident that he desires power. The entire conflict on Alara between Ajani and Bolas was because Bolas wanted to be infused with power to become a god again. Bolas just happens to send Tezzeret to Mirrodin, invaded by Phyrexians (in some weird artistic license, I guess, with the qualities of glistening oil), but still it was the plane Memnarch had made changes to in order to transfer planeswalker sparks.
If one spark can make a mortal into a planeswalker, what would happen if a planeswalker consumed the sparks of multiple other planeswalkers?
I feel that is Bolas’ goal. He has contacts with and tabs on a great many planeswalkers. He knows that the transfer of a planeswalker spark is possible. He knows that it usually requires a great calamity of some kind, be it the sylex blast, the Legacy weapon, or the events in Mirrodin with the soul traps. To become a god, what better way than to eliminate the demigods that are mortal planeswalkers, consume their sparks, and be elevated to godhood? What does it matter that great destruction is required, if one becomes a god in the process?
Then there is Karn. Karn is the inheritor of guilt. Glacian failed to stop Yawgmoth before Yawgmoth became the monster he was. The result? The Thran were destroyed, including his wife, and Yawgmoth became a god of Phyrexia, biding his time to return. Urza failed to save his brother from Yawgmoth, and the result was his brother’s death, his own son’s death, destruction of a continent and damage to an entire plane, and lifetimes of pain and guilt. Karn aided in the destruction of Yawgmoth, but destroyed his friend and his creator. Then, he created Argentum and the Mirari, which led to conflict on Dominaria once more and to the god Karona being born. Then his creation Memnarch almost destroyed his created plane in a quest eerily similar to the quest of Karn’s former enemy, Yawgmoth. Then his old enemies returned to his plane and established themselves once more on New Phyrexia. Karn and his pseudo-ancestors have been creating their own messes, facing guilt, and trying to clean it up for millennia.
Now Karn will face Nicol Bolas, another entity trying to become a god. Glacian’s spark transfer to Urza, from Urza to Karn, Glissa’s spark to Slobad, Venser’s to Karn, are all events contained within or affiliated with Karn and point to him. Karn’s life has pointed the way to Bolas’ possible attempt at godhood: transfer of sparks. Karn’s life has pointed Bolas towards a desire to cause untold destruction and death to become a god. Karn’s life has been a mess created not just by him, but he has inherited the result, and the result is another threat to the Multiverse. Karn does not seek out violence, but he is capable of using it for the greater good. To clean his mess up, Karn will have to ultimately stop Nicol Bolas. To become a god again, Nicol Bolas will ultimately have to stop Karn.
So now Nicol Bolas and Karn have planeswalkers that can ally with them. Nicol Bolas has his agents, Tezzeret, Sarkhan Vol, even some guy named Ramaz I just heard about. Karn has Elspeth, Koth, and Ajani in his corner, though they may not know it. I’m not sure where the other planeswalkers fall in this, but there are certainly those who aren’t clearly on one side or the other. But I feel the gears of conflict are slowly moving.
Then you can look at the respective cards of Nicol Bolas and Karn. Nicol Bolas is as I have described him: dangerous, destructive, causing massive damage and pain. Karn is as I have described him: defensive to start, but there to clean up whatever damage may be inflicted and come through with a band of heroes. Cards rarely dictate the story, but I enjoy reading into cards sometimes.
Will there eventually be a story about the conflict? Who knows. I’m itching to write one myself if no one else ever does. But I feel history is going to repeat itself, and that Nicol Bolas and Karn will be diametrically opposed, and foils to each other. I'm interested in feedback, if you got this far.
P.S. I would absolutely love a War of the Planeswalkers block, but as it will never happen, I settle to imagining what the planeswalker cards might be/look like, and wonder who would side with who.
P.P.S. Since Urza used the collapse of Serra's realm to power the Weatherlight, could Bolas collapse Mirrodin/New Phyrexia, another artificial plane, into himself if it became unstable?
I don't often post questions, so if I make an error with linking to a card, do not strike me down.
I was playing a FFA Planechase game among my friends the other night. Glimmervoid Basin was on the table. Its text reads, in pertinent part: "Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell with a single target, he or she copies that spell for each other spell, permanent, card not on the battlefield, and/or player the spell could target. Each copy targets a different one of them."
One player played Thassa's Bounty, which reads in pertinent part: "Draw three cards. Target player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard."
Chaos ensued. My question is in three parts:
Does Bounty have a single target, even if it does not use the word 'target'? Does the act of drawing three cards imply the player playing Bounty is targeting themselves? Is the "single target" language of Basin activated upon the second part of Bounty, where target player puts cards into their graveyard?
In light of that question, if Bounty is in fact copied by Basin, does each player draw three, then mill three off the top of their deck? Or does the player who played Bounty instead draw three cards, while every other player in the FFA mills 3 cards? Or, does the player who played Bounty draw three cards for each other player, while each other player mills 3 cards?
Is the proper way of reading Basin, in this case, the following: "Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell with a single target, he or she copies that spell for each other spell, permanent, card not on the battlefield, and/orplayer the spell could target."? If that is the correct reading, Bounty seems to only be able to target every other player but the original caster for the copies. But, it also seems that the wording of Bounty only has one part of the card that targets a player, specifically. Can Basin ignore part of a copied spell, and copy another part of that same spell? Can it split what a sorcery or instant does into its component parts and only apply some of them, based on targeting?
Thanks for your time in reading this long question, and I look forward to any insight any of you may have. I've read rulings on Gatherer, but I am still uncertain of the outcome.
Hi all. Quick question. When I set a scheme in motion in Archenemy, and I have Rings of Brighthearth, can I copy the activated ability of the scheme I just set in motion?
So let's say I have a 2v2 going, I have Stuffy Doll out, I choose an opponent, and then my teammate spams my Stuffy Doll with burn spells. Or some other such scenario. Now, I know that in combat, if I had Stuffy Doll block, it would receive all the damage of the attacking creature (say, 5 damage to it's 1 toughness) and redirect 5 damage to the player. Is it the same with spells? If a spell targeting the Doll deals 5 damage, does it deal all 5 to the player I chose, or just the 1 damage due to it's 1 toughness?
If any possible answers could point out some rules that would give me something solid (I hate mid- friendly game debates), I'd appreciate it!
You need card tags in future posts. Read the Forum Guidelines. -Carsten
My facts about Karn and his progenitors are based on The Thran, Artifacts Cycle, Masquerade Cycle, Invasion Cycle, Onslaught Cycle, the first book of Time Spiral Cycle, and forums/wikis for the final two books of Time Spiral Cycle. Like I said before, I do not have access to the Mirrodin Cycle books, but I have read synopses online, in addition to wikis and forums, specifically this site. What facts about Karn am I missing? He was one of my favorite characters, so taking into account that I have not had occasion to read the Mirrodin Cycle, nor the last two books of Time Spiral Cycle, nor Quest for Karn (which by god I will never read because Wintermute is terrible), it worries me that I may have overlooked something outside of those books. Of the books and sources I've read, which are contradictory sources? Let me know. My facts about Nicol Bolas' ambitions are likewise based on available lore. Is he not power hungry? Let me know.
Let us strike Test of Metal.
You know for a fact that the Phyrexians are far removed from Bolas' plans? Sounds like baseless speculation, unless you can provide a source. To me, it seems Bolas' plans were at least in some way connected to Phyrexians if he cared enough to tell Tezzeret to interfere with their hierarchy. Why else issue that directive? And who said anything about harnessing Phyrexians? And where did Tezzeret's presence have any significance in what I wrote, besides being sent to Mirrodin and thinking Bolas wanted to kill planeswalkers?
I quote: "The most commonly held theory . . .", from the link you provided. Sounds like there are other theories about planeswalker sparks.
It isn't a power or energy? Then of what significance is the aether-infused etherium?
I'm not sure that you fully understand the rules of logic, so I'll work through this one in depth. Let's use different words to simplify it and make it more relatable. Dollars can be transferred to the needy. Jim is needy. Therefore, dollars can be transferred to Jim. Planeswalker sparks can be transferred to people. Planeswalkers are people. Therefore, planeswalker sparks can be transferred to planeswalkers. You say C is B+A? So dollars are the needy? And Jim does not need to be the only needy person. It suffices that he is needy, and so dollars can be transferred to him. It's pretty simple logic. We've established A (planeswalker sparks can be transferred) and B (people), and C (planeswalkers), such that C is part of B (again, C does not need to be all of B, it just needs to be part of B). It is logical to say that planeswalkers can receive planeswalker sparks. Again, there is no logical reason this would not be so, since the lore has not yet stated that planeswalkers can't have or receive at the very least redundant additional sparks. Once we have that information, it will either remain the logical equation it is (that is, it can happen), or it will be adjusted (Planeswalker sparks can only go to people who are not planeswalkers. A planeswalker is a planeswalker, so planeswalker sparks cannot go to them).
I have gathered as much information as I possibly can. I've stated this on several occasions. If you are holding out, tell us more. I have two hypotheses. The first is that Karn and Bolas will inevitably, in the far future, be diametrically opposed. The arguments against this are more of flavor and opinion than about missing information pieces. The second relates to the cause of that conflict, and is that planeswalker sparks can be transferred to others, that those others may include planeswalkers, and that a spark is not just benign transportation ability but something more. Even you state it is tethered to the aether, and since etherium seems to be powerful when infused with the aether, I am left with a much stronger conviction to believe the spark has some power. You disagree, but I'm not sure which missing pieces you are holding close to the chest that are unavailable to me.
Again, please provide sources that you rely on to say that planeswalkers cannot receive other sparks. I am basing my position on logic and available post-Mending lore, lore which we can at least agree states that a spark can be transferred. It can't just be dismissed as baseless. But, I always seek out additional information. You'll note that I continuously ask for more information.
Was this in Teeth of Akoum? I could never get through to the finish of that book, and my information on Eldrazi is limited since I was never really interested in them. I had just always taken their destruction of planes to mean just that, not just nothingness on a plane.
Is this based on the Mirrodin Cycle books? What I know of those books I have gleaned from many different synopses. I know the events as they happened, but not specifics (like who was where, or that the machine was destroyed). But that brings up an interesting question: Who was the greater intellectual/more intelligent, Bolas, or Memnarch? If Memnarch could discern a way to to transfer sparks based off of the Legacy Weapon that turned Karn into a planeswalker, would Bolas also be able to think of that? The Legacy Weapon is not as much a secret as Memnarch's machine was.
I had a similar line of thought, but instead of using Mirrodin, I was wondering if Bolas might use the Eldrazi to weaken planes generally. Urza collapsed Serra's realm into a powerstone to create unfathomable power. If Bolas thinks that he can squeak in and absorb a collapsing natural plane, weakened by the Eldrazi, before the Eldrazi can finish consuming it, that would be interesting. Generally, it is artificial planes prone to collapse. But I'm wary of the Speculation Hammer of God in this thread, so I'll end this with a tip of my hat.
Could not know about it during the 400 years between the fight with Tetsuo and the interaction with Teferi? Maybe. But saying that he still knows nothing about it, even now, is as absurd as saying he could not have knowledge of many of the significant events that happened between the fight with Tetsuo and the interaction with Teferi 400 years later. Bolas usually seems very, very well informed. Even if he was unaware of the specifics of the machine, I doubt he's ignorant of the possibility of transferring sparks.
I agree that there is room for reasonable people to differ on the Karn vs. Bolas aspect. That's the main reason I posted this in the speculation forum. I hadn't noticed that trait specifically about the planeswalkers, but it seems to spread to all the ones he's interacted with, but for the fact that Sarkhan and Ramaz (presumably) have some interaction with green. But looking at Ajani, for instance. He stood up to Bolas and prevented him from becoming godlike again. But viscerally, I don't see him being the foil/counterpoint to Bolas. I think Karn's personal history points more in the direction of being the most likely planeswalker to step up to stop Bolas from becoming godlike than other planeswalkers, and I have to believe that there is some planeswalker out there that can stand up to Bolas without being obliterated. I keep in mind that Karn is an old-world planeswalker too, the inheritor of a great amount of power. If Bolas is still so powerful after the Mending, shouldn't Karn, the creator of Argentum, have more power after the Mending than the average planeswalker?
I appreciate the time you took to read through my posts. While I am still not 100% convinced (though it seems I'm obviously in the minority), where can I read more about the changes in the spark in-depth, outside of forums/internet posts? The change in the lore surrounding planeswalker powers seemed sudden, and I felt it was Wizards' attempt to pave the way for planeswalker cards in play (since it would be absurd to have an immortal planeswalker card). I've tried my best to locate as much info as I can, but I am largely unsatisfied with what I've found. I respect your information, but like doubting Thomas I'd strongly prefer seeing it with my own eyes in an official form.
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Under which flawed assumptions am I operating? I stated fact about Karn's background. I stated fact about Bolas' ambitions. I stated fact about spark transfer possibility, and the history of spark transfers in the lore. Do you mean that my belief that Karn and Nicol Bolas, based on facts of their histories and the lore presented, will be diametrically opposed moving forward was a flawed assumption? That assertion is one about which reasonable people can differ, but it is not baseless, nor a logical leap. There has to be a foil against the villain. Karn seems best suited, but again, reasonable people can differ. See, this is the presentation of a thesis based on facts available. You can present an antithesis based on facts, and then we can synthesize. Or you can just say "Naaah, flawed assumption".
Or did you mean my belief that consuming multiple planeswalker sparks will lead to increased power was a flawed assumption? As I have not yet discovered an official source describing the true nature of the planeswalker spark post-Mending (for instance: if it is transferable (and it is), it must have form of some kind, ie. energy, which is power of a kind), the available official facts available, that I have presented, provide no answer to the question "Do planeswalker sparks still contain some kind of power?" It's actually simple logic. Planeswalker sparks can be transferred to people. Planeswalkers are people. Therefore, planeswalker sparks can be transferred to planeswalkers. A to all B's. C is a B. A to C. That's logic. Then, if the question "Since planeswalker sparks can be transferred, are they energy/power of some kind?" is answered in the affirmative, we have more very simple logic. Planeswalker sparks are energy/power of some kind. Planeswalker sparks can be transferred to people. Planeswalkers are people. Therefore, energy/power can be transferred to planeswalkers. A is B. B to all C's. D is a C. A to C. It's sound logic, and I'd liked to see where you are seeing something illogical. The only data missing is the question of whether a spark is energy/power of some kind.
And again, I can't state it more clearly, SPECULATION IS OPINION BASED ON INCOMPLETE INFORMATION! What post in the Speculation forum could withstand your gavel, if the requirement to post there (to be speculative) is a reason you say it should be withdrawn??
Let me stop you right there. #1: If you're making a claim that I'm arguing a fallacy, the only fallacy I could see you talking about is the appeal to ignorance, which is the exact same fallacy that hairlessThoctar presented and I was responding to. That fallacy was not my original proposal. I am not saying "prove me wrong". I am presenting a theory based on a lot of information. #2: As an attorney, I'd be interested in knowing to which burden of proof you refer. Because, as far as I can tell, speculation is basing an opinion on incomplete information. Is the burden then on me to provide complete information when none exists, therby removing it from speculation and transforming it into verifiable fact? The forum is called "Storyline Speculation". The rules of the forum state, in pertinent part:
"Baseless Speculation: If you have a theory or other speculative discussion, share it in the Speculation subforum! However, please put some thought into it before you make a post. Implausible ideas like "I believe Gerrard will come back from the dead as a planeswalker" are spam and will result in an infraction for Baseless Speculation. This forum is for educated speculation based on available resources, so your theory must still be based on known facts. If your argument boils down to "It could happen" or "They can do what they want" you shall be penalized appropriately." [Emphasis Added]
I have a theory and speculative discussion to present. I put some thought into it, and am making an educated speculation based on the sum of knowledge I have from extensive reading, and evidence of sparks being manipulated in the past in a variety of ways. I am basing my theory on known facts. My argument does not boil down to "it could happen"; it is based on a foundation that I have presented. If a spark can be moved to another body or into a powerstone, there is no available reason to suggest that an entity cannot contain more than one spark, or merge them together. Karn, when he became planeswalker, contained the power of a planeswalker in Glacian's powerstone, and the power of an entire plane from Weatherlight's powerstone. Both were within one person. Could the Weatherlight not planeshift? Did Karn not contain two different sources of planeshifting power? Why then would it be improbable for another planeswalker to contain two different sources of planeshifting power? I'm basing this off of books, not wild conjecture. If a spark can be transported into another person, I don't see why it couldn't be transported into another person who already has a spark. If you hold to the belief that the spark is benign transportation, then certainly a person could have two sparks (though you would argue it wouldn't improve them in any way), since transportation from one person to another is proven possible post-Mending, in the case of Venser and Karn. There is nothing in the lore describing a neowalker protection mechanism to prevent the combination of sparks. So, again, since we know sparks can be transported post-Mending (proven), and there is no collateral information informing us that it can't be transported into someone already with one, there is nothing currently to prevent the transportation of a benign spark into someone who already has one. Essentially, as things stand now, post-Mending, sparks can be transported into others, with no restriction as of yet.
I could also bring up http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Planeswalker%27s_spark, where it states: "After the Mending, the nature of a planeswalker's spark changed: they lost their invulnerability, immortality, shapeshifting and most of their additional magical power." [Emphasis added]
That seems a serious distinction. The end of the statement states "additional magic power", meaning what they did not have at first, then says "most." So, by operation of logic, they have at least some additional magic power after the Mending. Which means a spark could, based on this site's own wiki, possess additional substantive power besides a benign transportation ability, which means it could be of value to try to possess and consume, since we know they can be moved (even post-Mending. See: Venser, Karn).
If I posted only "Karn and Bolas are going to fight because I think Bolas can take someone else's spark, lul", that would be baseless. Also, if someone years ago had posted that they thought Venser would transport his spark and heart into Karn, based on nothing (since there is no foundation for such an idea), it would be foundationless, but eventually true. I have done that concept one better, and provided sufficient information to overcome that hurdle.
In the future, if a Speculation Forum without speculation is preferred, please make that clear in the forum rules. In the meantime, I think the forum rules could do with an update to explain why the following is not baseless speculation: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=564961; http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=499242; http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=485147; http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=509017 . To someone who read posts to make sure their post was in conformity, and has great experience following legal rules to make sure they are in conformity with requirements, there is ample room for confusion if my post is considered baseless while these posts seem to not be.
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I agree with most of what you wrote, since I also made the distinction that the examples we have are pre-Mending. I also agree with most of what you write about the spark, while tempering it with what I read and agree with in the above quoted segment from this site's wiki, which I reproduce here:
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Planeswalker%27s_spark, where it states: "After the Mending, the nature of a planeswalker's spark changed: they lost their invulnerability, immortality, shapeshifting and most of their additional magical power." [Emphasis added]
That seems a serious distinction. The end of the statement states "additional magic power", meaning what they did not have at first, then says "most." So, by operation of logic, they have some additional magic power after the Mending. Which means a spark could, based on this site's own wiki, possess additional substantive power besides a benign transportation ability, which means it could be of value to try to possess and consume, since we know they can be moved (even post-Mending. See: Venser, Karn).
So while I have read examples of neowalkers getting their ***es kicked by other non-walker mages, I do not think, based on the information I have available from neowalker related books and forums/internet posts, that the spark is just a skill for Multiverse teleportation.
Finally, since it is at the very least established that the spark can be transported into another person post-Mending, I would greatly appreciate the Moderators and other good people in this forum to provide well-founded examples and proof of why a redundant spark cannot be transported into another planeswalker if any such information exists, since we also agree planeswalkers are people too, so that I can adjust my information and belief accordingly.
While there is nothing to suggest that one can possess multiple sparks, I haven't seen anything suggesting it's not possible. If it had been attempted, and that entity had failed, I would agree with your implication.
From everything I know, if you have the potential to be a planeswalker, and your spark is never activated, you can die without becoming a planeswalker. So the fact that the souls may contain an unactivated spark is of no moment.
True that a spark does not increase one's strength in magic, and Tezzeret and Venser are decent examples. But sparks have been used to power things before, and are not necessarily affiliated with increasing magic power of any kind (more like specific kinds). The Nine Titans, for instance, had varying specialties which the others could not/did not have the knowledge/ability to do. They certainly became more powerful/immortal when they became planeswalkers, but they did not necessarily become experts in all things magic. They remained within their fields of expertise. As for powering, Glacian is an example. Then Urza powering a bomb with the soul/spark of Tevesh Szat. Then Karn using Glissa's spark from Slobad to restore the souls of the lost on Mirrodin (at least from what I've read online, since I haven't gotten access to the books yet). So it would seem to me that sparks have an inherent energy. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a use of a spark like that since the Mending. But I do not think the spark is like being born with an extra finger or a deviated septum, in that it's just a trait that is benign. I think it has some energy to it, especially in order to preserve the walker through the Blind Eternities.
For some background, my MtG readings started with Arena, and include all the Thran/Urza/Weatherlight storylines, in addition to some others. Notably absent from my readings are the Mirrodin cycle, which was not important to me until I started thinking about this idea and is beyond my reach for now, and the last two books of the Time Spiral cycle. I’ve also read some planeswalker comics on the website, and two planeswalker books, Agents of Artifice and Test of Metal. Also important to this idea is The Quest for Karn, which I refused to read because Wintermute was so terrible an author for Teeth of Akoum. What I haven’t had a chance to read, I’ve read synopses of online in forums and wikis.
***If you haven't read those books, and haven't read forums/wikis dealing with storylines, ***SPOILER ALERT*** because they will be referenced below.*** And so...
I feel that there is going to be an inevitable conflict between Nicol Bolas and Karn. I feel they are kind of preordained to stand on opposite sides, with one not wanting the other to succeed. Historical patterns repeat themselves sometimes, and I think literary patterns do too.
The greatest threat to the Multiverse before the book Apocalypse was Phyrexia. Phyrexia may be back now on New Phyrexia, but the plane itself wasn’t the danger. It was Yawgmoth. Yawgmoth was the underlying evil of many a storyline. He rose to power in the Thran Empire, was placed by the planeswalker Dyfed as a god in an artificial plane he named Phyrexia, and was denied both access to a planeswalker spark and the plane of Dominaria by Rebbec and her husband Glacian, contained in the powerstone that sealed Phyrexia away. Yawgmoth wanted nothing more than to become a planeswalker and conquer Dominaria, his true home, and be as a god. But both were taken from him.
Now, from what I gather about Nicol Bolas, he once had something as well: something near to godhood. He bemoans the loss of his godlike powers routinely. His powers were sealed off from him by the Mending. Now, he is driven by a purpose very similar to Yawgmoth’s: retake what was taken from him, by whatever means necessary. For Yawgmoth, it was the destruction of Dominaria and a quest for a spark and godhood. For Bolas, it may be the destruction of the Multiverse in a quest for his godhood.
The greatest enemy of Phyrexia could be said to be Glacian, but the physical manifestation of that was Urza. Yawgmoth took something from Glacian (his wife, for the most part) and from Urza (his brother, primarily). United by blood, tears, and the sylex blast, Urza took up Glacian’s planeswalker spark, and his eyes became the two halves of the powerstone that contained Glacian. Urza then dedicated the rest of his immortal planeswalker life to defeating Yawgmoth and Phyrexia, to creating a Legacy of artifacts and a biological component to defeat Yawgmoth when he returned. Part of the Legacy was Karn, a silver golem who Urza originally designed to go back in time. During the Invasion cycle, Karn threw off his pacifism (which he had taken up upon killing an innocent years earlier) and engaged in violence for the greater good. When all seemed lost, Urza (or more importantly, his head), Karn, and Gerrard, the biological component of the Legacy, came together to destroy Yawgmoth once and for all. The process destroyed Urza, Gerrard, Karn, and the Weatherlight in a massive blast that sought out and killed Yawgmoth (or did it? I hate when stories change and vary). The result? The power of the blast transferred Glacian’s spark from Urza to Karn, who now embodied the power of the Legacy, the minds of Glacian, Urza, Gerrard, the sentient Weatherlight, and all those who had been consumed on Serra to power the Weatherlight. Karn then embodied the antithesis to Phyrexia and Yawgmoth. He was the collected and stored will to defend against consuming evil, manifested in planeswalker form.
Karn then created Argentum, a plane of metal. He stood among Serra, and the unknown planeswalker who created the plane that would be Phyrexia, as planeswalkers who had created artificial planes. His creation, Memnarch, would adulterate Argentum and make it Mirrodin. To make what must be a long story short, Memnarch eventually grew mad (mentally), and wanted to join his creator beyond Mirrodin. He wanted to make himself a planeswalker, a god like his god, Karn. It appears from what I’ve gathered on the internet that Memnarch eventually changed the plane of Mirrodin so that it was a massive device to transfer a planeswalker spark from one entity to another. The cost was a massive loss of life, which he was willing to do. He was willing to use any means necessary in his quest for a spark and godhood. While he ultimately failed in his quest, the spark he wanted, that which was within Glissa, was actually transferred to Slobad, the goblin (from what I’ve read). What became of the construct to transfer sparks, I do not know for certain (I don't have access to the books and rely on the internet). Again, it is clear that planeswalker sparks can be transferred. Apparently Venser transferred his heart/spark to Karn to liberate him from Phyrexians on Mirrodin/New Phyrexia, but as it was written by Wintermute, I have no idea what he intended and do not understand how a human mortal planeswalker organic heart can make Karn a planeswalker again. But I digress.
Tezzeret, planeswalker, was convinced that Bolas is seeking to kill planeswalkers in Test of Metal. Liliana Vess expressed a fear that Bolas could risk destruction of the Multiverse. These both entail the extinguishing of planeswalker sparks and massive loss of life. Bolas wants to be a god again. That is his quest. While we don’t know much about Bolas’ plans (and we know even less about his personality, I feel, since authors take liberties with his dialogue and make him sound like a teenager at times), we can be confident that he desires power. The entire conflict on Alara between Ajani and Bolas was because Bolas wanted to be infused with power to become a god again. Bolas just happens to send Tezzeret to Mirrodin, invaded by Phyrexians (in some weird artistic license, I guess, with the qualities of glistening oil), but still it was the plane Memnarch had made changes to in order to transfer planeswalker sparks.
If one spark can make a mortal into a planeswalker, what would happen if a planeswalker consumed the sparks of multiple other planeswalkers?
I feel that is Bolas’ goal. He has contacts with and tabs on a great many planeswalkers. He knows that the transfer of a planeswalker spark is possible. He knows that it usually requires a great calamity of some kind, be it the sylex blast, the Legacy weapon, or the events in Mirrodin with the soul traps. To become a god, what better way than to eliminate the demigods that are mortal planeswalkers, consume their sparks, and be elevated to godhood? What does it matter that great destruction is required, if one becomes a god in the process?
Then there is Karn. Karn is the inheritor of guilt. Glacian failed to stop Yawgmoth before Yawgmoth became the monster he was. The result? The Thran were destroyed, including his wife, and Yawgmoth became a god of Phyrexia, biding his time to return. Urza failed to save his brother from Yawgmoth, and the result was his brother’s death, his own son’s death, destruction of a continent and damage to an entire plane, and lifetimes of pain and guilt. Karn aided in the destruction of Yawgmoth, but destroyed his friend and his creator. Then, he created Argentum and the Mirari, which led to conflict on Dominaria once more and to the god Karona being born. Then his creation Memnarch almost destroyed his created plane in a quest eerily similar to the quest of Karn’s former enemy, Yawgmoth. Then his old enemies returned to his plane and established themselves once more on New Phyrexia. Karn and his pseudo-ancestors have been creating their own messes, facing guilt, and trying to clean it up for millennia.
Now Karn will face Nicol Bolas, another entity trying to become a god. Glacian’s spark transfer to Urza, from Urza to Karn, Glissa’s spark to Slobad, Venser’s to Karn, are all events contained within or affiliated with Karn and point to him. Karn’s life has pointed the way to Bolas’ possible attempt at godhood: transfer of sparks. Karn’s life has pointed Bolas towards a desire to cause untold destruction and death to become a god. Karn’s life has been a mess created not just by him, but he has inherited the result, and the result is another threat to the Multiverse. Karn does not seek out violence, but he is capable of using it for the greater good. To clean his mess up, Karn will have to ultimately stop Nicol Bolas. To become a god again, Nicol Bolas will ultimately have to stop Karn.
So now Nicol Bolas and Karn have planeswalkers that can ally with them. Nicol Bolas has his agents, Tezzeret, Sarkhan Vol, even some guy named Ramaz I just heard about. Karn has Elspeth, Koth, and Ajani in his corner, though they may not know it. I’m not sure where the other planeswalkers fall in this, but there are certainly those who aren’t clearly on one side or the other. But I feel the gears of conflict are slowly moving.
Then you can look at the respective cards of Nicol Bolas and Karn. Nicol Bolas is as I have described him: dangerous, destructive, causing massive damage and pain. Karn is as I have described him: defensive to start, but there to clean up whatever damage may be inflicted and come through with a band of heroes. Cards rarely dictate the story, but I enjoy reading into cards sometimes.
Will there eventually be a story about the conflict? Who knows. I’m itching to write one myself if no one else ever does. But I feel history is going to repeat itself, and that Nicol Bolas and Karn will be diametrically opposed, and foils to each other. I'm interested in feedback, if you got this far.
P.S. I would absolutely love a War of the Planeswalkers block, but as it will never happen, I settle to imagining what the planeswalker cards might be/look like, and wonder who would side with who.
P.P.S. Since Urza used the collapse of Serra's realm to power the Weatherlight, could Bolas collapse Mirrodin/New Phyrexia, another artificial plane, into himself if it became unstable?
I don't often post questions, so if I make an error with linking to a card, do not strike me down.
I was playing a FFA Planechase game among my friends the other night. Glimmervoid Basin was on the table. Its text reads, in pertinent part: "Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell with a single target, he or she copies that spell for each other spell, permanent, card not on the battlefield, and/or player the spell could target. Each copy targets a different one of them."
One player played Thassa's Bounty, which reads in pertinent part: "Draw three cards. Target player puts the top three cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard."
Chaos ensued. My question is in three parts:
Does Bounty have a single target, even if it does not use the word 'target'? Does the act of drawing three cards imply the player playing Bounty is targeting themselves? Is the "single target" language of Basin activated upon the second part of Bounty, where target player puts cards into their graveyard?
In light of that question, if Bounty is in fact copied by Basin, does each player draw three, then mill three off the top of their deck? Or does the player who played Bounty instead draw three cards, while every other player in the FFA mills 3 cards? Or, does the player who played Bounty draw three cards for each other player, while each other player mills 3 cards?
Is the proper way of reading Basin, in this case, the following: "Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell with a single target, he or she copies that spell for each other
spell, permanent, card not on the battlefield, and/orplayer the spell could target."? If that is the correct reading, Bounty seems to only be able to target every other player but the original caster for the copies. But, it also seems that the wording of Bounty only has one part of the card that targets a player, specifically. Can Basin ignore part of a copied spell, and copy another part of that same spell? Can it split what a sorcery or instant does into its component parts and only apply some of them, based on targeting?Thanks for your time in reading this long question, and I look forward to any insight any of you may have. I've read rulings on Gatherer, but I am still uncertain of the outcome.
So let's say I have a 2v2 going, I have Stuffy Doll out, I choose an opponent, and then my teammate spams my Stuffy Doll with burn spells. Or some other such scenario. Now, I know that in combat, if I had Stuffy Doll block, it would receive all the damage of the attacking creature (say, 5 damage to it's 1 toughness) and redirect 5 damage to the player. Is it the same with spells? If a spell targeting the Doll deals 5 damage, does it deal all 5 to the player I chose, or just the 1 damage due to it's 1 toughness?
If any possible answers could point out some rules that would give me something solid (I hate mid- friendly game debates), I'd appreciate it!
You need card tags in future posts. Read the Forum Guidelines. -Carsten