"if". it would have been a jace too. and he would have died. is this an argument for jace being bad?
but i think that ashiok is not the best card vs aggro and he should board it out vs such a fast deck.... which can do not much after you casted a revelation.
It's not "if". You're either taking out kill conditions or removal to make room for Ashiok, which means you are playing some number of cards that do absolutely nothing the turn they come into play.
It's better than Aetherling and a bunch of other 4cc+ cards. It can be sided out but likely getting a 1/2 drop the following turn while still having a live walker is more than relevant. And, against mono-red is actually pretty amazing in a UB shell with Frostburn Weird. All these 3color decks are tooooo greedy with Shocks/CIPTs especially in a blind meta.
A creature is better than Ashiok because it can at the very least block. In our testing Ashiok took an average of 3+ turns to do anything relevant and was judged to be worse than any creature or removal spell you could replace it with against aggressive decks.
Against control it's a fine card but it's just a millstone variant which isn't anything to write home about.
This set is about as bad as black has looked in years, I had a hard time trying to pick out playables from the new set as black is now the home of the worst creatures in standard.
You clearly have little idea of how this game works if you can't comprehend the meaning of my statement. Bestow cards' time probably won't come until RtR block rotates out and we're left with a slower environment.
So you can tell me how fast a future standard is going to be based on one set out of the five that will be present upon rotation? I would love to have your powers of divination.
Looking back over the set it's like they're trying to take us back to Kamigawa power levels for commons/uncommons and the only playable cards are rare.
Here is some of the first replies to the Liliana of the Veil.
"Liliana is, um, interesting. Meh? Glad she costs 3, but not seeing great value at first glance.
EDIT: Well, obviously she works good at filling up graveyards and making you discard stuff you want in the graveyard. Chandra's Phoenix with Chandra seems ok. She's obviously going to be specialized. My Johnny sense just isn't tingling when I see her."
"The trick with her is going to be finding a way to make the +1 work. Definitely not an automatic 4x walker."
"Her CMC makes her usable BUT her abilities aren't the greatest. We'll see how good she is after the whole spoiler."
"I guess you could use her +1 to drop creatures to the graveyard."
"Liliana is...disappointing. The -2 seems decent and the ultimate seems OK as well. The + ability could be decent, but the card as a whole seems pretty underwhelming"
"Why am I horribly disappointed with the new Liliana? Richard Garfield is on the design team, right? MaRo, too? Where's the creativity?"
"Finally a low costed Black Walker, to bad her abilities are kind of lack luster. Hopefully theres a good way to use her abilities."
"I am dissapointed by Liliana"
All from the first page. I think people here always feel they are great at evaluating cards but in reality they are bad and then claim they always have loved something they poo pooed in the beginning to try and look cool.
Constructed playable is a bell curve, it shifts with overall power level, you have to wait and see where that curve adjusts to before you can say one way or another
Way to cherry pick comments without any meaning of context. There were a lot of mixed reviews on her just like there would be any card.
Hey guys, let's exercise our close reading skills. Here's what I said in my post:
That whip is ABSURD, especially now that it has synergy with Ashen Rider. Wow. Whip + Rider + Sac outlet = exile a permanent, swing for 5 with evasion, then exile another permanent. For four mana.
Now let's extrapolate the relevant section.
Whip + Rider + Sac outlet
Do you see what I was saying? How about next time you read more carefully?
The exile clause of whip is a replacement effect, meaning it never "dies" as it never even thinks about going to the graveyard.
I don't understand the arguments about how bad Ashiok is against aggro.
Ashiok is a win con. If you want to know whether it is any good against aggro, you have to compare it to another win con, not against whatever you use to fight aggro on turn three. What good is Aetherling or Jace, Memory Adept against aggro? Neither of them is so hot on turn three (hint: you cannot play them on turn three).
Ashiok may give you something to fight with on turn four, or just buy you some time, if you have nothing better to do. That is not a good situation. That is not why you play Ashiok for. But it is better than nothing.
In my view:
- In a aggro match-up, you play Ashiok when you have already stabilized. A creature every two turns is more than enough to win the game at that point.
- In a mid-range match-up, you play Ashiok on turn three, before you face significant pressure, and you try and steal their efficient creatures.
- In a control match-up, you play it two full turns before bigger Jace, and three turns before Aetherling, and it will put a ton on pressure on your opponent (creatureless control is fringe, and the ultimate is just gg).
You may like this planeswalker or not, but please argue it as a win condition, and not just as a turn-three play against aggro.
In an aggro match you will get on average a playable creature on turn 5, and then another on turn 8. That takes 5 turns to get a result off of this card. Or you could just play anything else and achieve a 1 for 1 and IMMEDIATELY impact the board.
Against control it's even worse, as it'll take a lot of activations for this card to do anything, and even if it does your opponent will likely have an answer. Whereas 5cmc Jace or Aetherling will end the game after just a few turns.
Against Midrange is worst of all, your opponent will see anything this card does coming, so their larger creatures will be able to pop Ashiok for enough loyalty to keep it from ever really becoming "active".
I really dont understand how you can say that... Um... are you playing the same standard that im playing in? The new black god shuts down or at least hurts the following:
I mean how many more cards do you want me to name here? The new black god's static ability is DISGUSTINGLY AWESOME for today's standard environment, and this WILL be going in my jund deck, at least as a sideboard card for SURE. Probably the god im most excited about
And almost all of that lifegain is tied to creatures, which black is tremendously good at dealing with already.
I think I figured out what really bothers me about Erebos. It's the only one of the cycle that you can't build around. The static effect the others have affect either your board or your deck, whereas hers affects your opponent, which may or may not have a single card that can gain life in it. Conversely if you want an inexpensive draw mechanic Underworld Connections is vastly better as it comes down a turn sooner, costs less "mana" to activate and you lose less life from it. The only benefit is being a 5/7 which is nice but still a bit disappointing given how weak the first effect is and how infrequently you can use the activated ability.
It's not "if". You're either taking out kill conditions or removal to make room for Ashiok, which means you are playing some number of cards that do absolutely nothing the turn they come into play.
A creature is better than Ashiok because it can at the very least block. In our testing Ashiok took an average of 3+ turns to do anything relevant and was judged to be worse than any creature or removal spell you could replace it with against aggressive decks.
Against control it's a fine card but it's just a millstone variant which isn't anything to write home about.
So you can tell me how fast a future standard is going to be based on one set out of the five that will be present upon rotation? I would love to have your powers of divination.
Way to cherry pick comments without any meaning of context. There were a lot of mixed reviews on her just like there would be any card.
The exile clause of whip is a replacement effect, meaning it never "dies" as it never even thinks about going to the graveyard.
In an aggro match you will get on average a playable creature on turn 5, and then another on turn 8. That takes 5 turns to get a result off of this card. Or you could just play anything else and achieve a 1 for 1 and IMMEDIATELY impact the board.
Against control it's even worse, as it'll take a lot of activations for this card to do anything, and even if it does your opponent will likely have an answer. Whereas 5cmc Jace or Aetherling will end the game after just a few turns.
Against Midrange is worst of all, your opponent will see anything this card does coming, so their larger creatures will be able to pop Ashiok for enough loyalty to keep it from ever really becoming "active".
And almost all of that lifegain is tied to creatures, which black is tremendously good at dealing with already.
Nope, Wizards doesn't like printing good cards with U and B on them, and all U/B cards must have some sort of unnecessary mill component.