MTG Salvation

Thanks for your answer ! I was wondering why we would use Ponder instead of Peer Through Depths ? I tried both, and I must say that most of the time, I only want 1 card from the three I see with ponder, and also PtD allows you to dig 4 instead of 3.

@Sverrath

PtD digs deep, and it adds the card to hand as well.. but it would probably be a bad idea to have both a set of Ideas Unbound and PtD on the deck. The mana curve would be too high. Personally, I would settle for either (a set of Ponder or Preordain + set of IU), or (a set of Ponder or Preordain + set of PtD).

Fresh out of cash right now though, so I have 4 Ponder and 4 Preordain in addition to 4 Sign in Blood as draw spells.

Also, IMO Gitaxian Probe could be pretty nice here since it's free, adds to the storm count and draws you a card while allowing you to be aware of what your opponent have in his hand (especially for counters).

My latest list already has 2 Probe main deck. Works well with 2 Noxious Revival (also main deck). Get the card that NR put on top for free. Jin Gitaxias and Vorinclex might be enemies, but their cards work nicely together here.

I know that having 2 lands, draw spell, chromatic star/sphere, ritual and finisher in opening hand is good, but in real life you don't always get hands like this.

Personally, I never rely on having 2 lands to sac in every game. In a real match, there's Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, and sometimes the fact that only one or no land is drawn (since there's only 14 of them). What's more important for me is having at least 2 Rituals (preferably Dark Ritual or Rite of Flame) to be able to continue the sequence.

There are several opening hands, but here's a few.

Sample opening hands (Good).

Land, Land, Dark Ritual, Ponder, Ponder, Manamorphose, Tendrils
Land, Petal, Dark Ritual, Rite of Flame, Sphere, Preordain, Ponder.
Petal, Petal, Dark Ritual, Star, Preordain, Ponder, Tendrils

I only keep a one land no petal hand if I'm sure that opponent doesn't use Wasteland / Ghost Quarter.

It's nice to practice converting mana effectively with Manamorphose as well.
For example, a hand of Sulfur Vent, Manamorphose, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Sphere, Preordain, Preordain. Instead of taking a single black from Sulfur Vent, I prefer to sac it, then Manamorphose RU into either BB (if I feel like playing it safe, just in case opponent has misstep) or BU (if I think opponent has no misstep).

Sideboard:

2 Silence
1 Orim's Chant
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Echoing Truth
2 Dismember

My current list has no more protection on game 1. Instead I maximize the card draw by having 2 probe for a total of 26 cantrips. The 2 probes surprisingly work well with the 2 Noxious Revival, allow to draw the card that NR put on top for free while adding storm count as well.

Sideboard is now more varied, but I still maintain 4 grudge because what gives me the most trouble are artifacts (Ethersworn Canonist and her sidekick Null rod :(). For anyone who wonders how I got an Orim's Chant since it's a non-budget card, I bought it cheap years ago. Found it in an old binder while I was searching for a missing foil Ancient Spring. Against an unprepared / non-counterspell meta. I think this deck can actually perform well.


@Alcarin

I suggest replacing the Irrigation Ditch with Ancient Spring if you have them. Black mana is important for this deck.

@Alcarin

The decklist that I'm using is not the optimal build for this deck. My version has a lot of cards substituted for cards that I don't have. For example, I use Preordain instead of Ideas Unbound.

Oh I see, so you mean Meltdown.
Well, not much more to say, but I'd like to share my experiences against certain decks.
Please do note that these were done in a span of weeks and not in a single day. Writing from memory, so it's not very detailed.

Testing report:

Death and Taxes

Game 1: He gains some life from a Jitte equipped Mother of Runes, but I storm for exactly 24 damage and finally able to kill him.

Game 2: Wasteland and Null Rod slow me down. Die to to a Jitte equipped angel.

Game 3: I toast his turn 3 Null Rod with Ancient Grudge, but my lands get hit by Wasteland again. He gets a Canonist + Mother of Runes lock and I concede.

Weird homebrew deck with exalted creatures

Game 1: I fizzle and got killed by Silhana Ledgwalker with Rancor and exalted bonus.

Game 2: He has Leyline of Sanctity, but I ETW early for 14 goblins. All he has is a Noble Hierarch. I win.

Game 3: Win on turn 5 with Tendrils after Ray of Revelation on his Leyline.

Burn

Game 1: Win on Turn 4 with tendrils.

Game 2: She has Pyrostatic Pillar on turn two. I foolishly try to go off with a pillar in play. Down to 6 life because of the pillar, but still felt safe because she only has one mana untapped. Die to Fireblast and bolt before I could find a tendrils.

Game 3: I mull a one petal no land hand into a 6 card no land no petal hand. Don't want to mull to 4, so I keep a 5 card hand with 3 land, a Ponder and Manamorphose. Fizzle and died to double Goblin Guide and burn. She had no pillar on game 3.

Combo Elves

Game 1: Win using Tendrils on turn 3 with a good hand.

Game 2: He mull to 5, and starts with Leyline of Vitality on his side of the field. The turn before I can go off, he goes off drawing a lot elves using Glimpse of Nature, Heritage Druid, Quirion Ranger and the 2/2 elf that untaps. He gains a lot of life from the Leyline, and I die to a mob of angry elves.

Game 3: He mull to 6 and has the T1 Leyline again. I get what is basically a god hand and kill him on T2.

Reanimator

Game 1: A friend of mine so he knows what I'm playing. T2 Iona on black, I couldn't do anything.

Game 2: Terastodon destroy all my land and Jin Gitaxias discard my hand. Concede.


So far I haven't encountered anyone with Mindbreak Trap, Magus of the Moon or Gaddock Teeg.
Need to playtest a little more I guess.

Quote from Skibo

No, i imagine Urabrask would die in the end, and the red faction would probaly die as well (most likely keeping the other four factions at bay, buying the protagonists enough time to set off whatever plot device will be used to kill the Phyrexians).

That's also possible.

Perhaps Urabrask and the red faction would do something similar to what Xantcha did for Urza?

Quote from Jin15

Also, my apologies in advance to Fluff for disagreeing on some things in the "Card Choices" section lol

No problem at all.
I haven't really put a reasonable amount of cash into this deck yet. Most of the cards that I use are the ones that I have available. Like for example I use Ancient Grudge instead of Shattering Spree only because I don't own any SS, and Preordain over Ideas Unbound for the same reason. Though I would probably still use two Noxious Revival even if I gave this deck more funds, because more often than not, it gets back a mana source that allows me to keep going. With it I can use Cabal Ritual without the threshold, then later on after casting a few more spells I cast NR (pay 2 life so no mana is used) and then get back the Cabal Ritual (with the help of a cantrip) which now has thresh. Proceed to produce five B for a lethal tendrils.

Nice primer, and I hope development would continue for this deck.

Burnout - Another suggested sideboard card. It works very well if you're trying to hate out Affinity, but is not as efficient as Shattering Spree against most artifact based hate such as Ethersworn Canonist, Null Rod, Thorn of Amethyst, Trinisphere, etc. The better mana efficiency of Shattering Spree is why Burnout did not make the cut.

Perhaps you mean Ancient Grudge?
I'm using Burnout against Merfolk, not Affinity.

Silence is going to be the best overall protection, since it can deal with all sorts of situations that the others cannot. Say your opponent is holding a Spell Snare and a Mindbreak Trap in their hand at the start of game 2. If you cast Silence first thing there's just nothing they can do. They're stuck not being able to counter anything for the rest of the turn. However, if you went with Ricochet Trap or Pyroblast you would end up being able to counter one of them but you may still end up losing due to the other counterspell. It's because of situations like this that I think Silence is definitely the best protection we can run, especially since we have a total of 21 cards in the deck that can generate white mana (4 Lotus Petal, 4 Chromatic Star, 3 Chromatic Sphere, 4 Manamorphose, 4 Ancient Spring, and 2 Gemstone Mine).

@Jin

That's a good argument for Silence. Considering to have it again on my sideboard, just thinking of what to take out. On Noxious Revival, there's a Reanimator deck right now in my meta that gets Iona rather consistently, so I feel comfortable having two NR main deck in addition to the 3 Echoing Truth in my sideboard against it.

Oh btw, in actual games I have some difficulty keeping track of mana in the mana pool. Purchased a few dice to make things easier. The square dice are for mana pool (blue dice = U, red dice = R, green dice = G, white dice = W, yellow dice = B, the big green dice = storm count.). Can't find a black dice at the bookstore, so had to settle for yellow ones.

If Ricochet Trap is going to be used primarily against decks like Merfolk, why not consider Pyroblast instead? Just a thought.

Anyways, I've been lurking this thread for awhile and I must say this deck has really caught my interest. I'm very close to going out and purchasing the cards necessary to build it. It's a very impressive budget deck!

@MadcatSowega

Ricochet Trap avoids MM, as Jin already pointed out. Against a deck like Merfolk that has many other counters in addition to Misstep, it's better to have something like the Trap or Burnout against them.

@lorentis

Thanks for the suggestion. Ricochet Trap does seem ok against Merfolk, so far it's the hardest match up I've faced with this deck. The Pact of Negation can be replaced by Duress, Silence or whatever protection you may have available that suits your meta.

From what I see, all the draw cards are cantrips. I'm guessing that due to the low land count in the deck, the cantrips are suffice in getting fuel for the combo to go off?

Most of the time I only have one land to use because I've only drawn one land or because opponent uses Wastelend. One land is good enough if you have a hand with at least 2 Rituals and some cantrips - use ponder and preordain to get more mana sources and cantrips to continue the sequence until you draw a Tendrils. And of course, some practice in piloting the deck is needed as well.

I haven't tested Ideas Unbound yet. Ponders and Preordains have been working well so far.
With so many cards in the deck counterable by MM, I'm liking the fact that my opponent has to make many choices which to counter, misstep my preordain or ponder? Countered my Dark Ritual, ok I have Rite of Flame to keep going. Those situations happen.

First of all, sorry for the double post.
It's been awhile, and there's some things I wanted to share.

After several testings, Lotus Petal is very important, and it's slot should never be replaced by a Simian Spirit Guide main deck. The petal adds to storm count, produces any color, and adds to graveyard for Cabal Ritual's threshold - there are a number of games that I would have won if only I was able produce five B with Cabal Ritual. My meta is filled with Null Rod, so I still have guides in sideboard, which go in once I'm sure my opponent has Null Rod for the next game.

Also would like to thank weltkrieg for suggesting Noxious Revival. Sure it can be countered by misstep, but most of the time what my opponents try to counter with misstep is Dark Ritual. I've been able to cast a lethal tendrils due to being able to reuse mana source cards, and the fact that Noxious Revival itself adds to storm count. It is also a good answer against someone trying to reanimate an Iona, Shield of Emeria (a resolved Iona on B is usually GG. :(). Though by testing, I've felt that having 4 main deck is too many. Two is enough.

Current deck:



Sideboard

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
3 Echoing Truth
2 Burnout

@Madcat

That's a unique deck that you have there.

Since you have plenty of forest for producing G, I would suggest Skyshroud Blessing.
It can protect important lands and draws an extra card as well.

Quote from TRAMD

McCracken's list also had 4 MoE and I believe EC in the SB?

McCracken's list had 4 MoE and 2 EC main deck.

Strictly speaking, Shrapnel Blast isn't really better as much as it's different.

I think it's about time we agree to disagree then.

Quote from sailortwift

I had a feeling i have realized (after 5 minutes of lurking here lol) that wasteland is a pretty big staple.

Is there any way to remedy that situation?

Pithing Needle shuts down Wasteland.

If there's a weekly legacy tournament near where you live, I suggest joining so that you could test how your deck stands against other legacy decks. Once you have an idea of what your meta is like, then you can decide what to adjust in your deck (main and sideboard) so that it stands a better chance at winning.