First off, this started off as a reply to the mono-black aggro thread. However after writing this response I realize that I'm trying to take the deck in a different direction. Plus the response turned out to be more primer-ish, so I decided to make it it's own thread. Anyways, something I've been brewing up.
I'd call this Aggro-Control. We can't go straight aggro, because there are faster aggro options out there. We can't go control, because other colors have ridiculous card advantage and powerful planeswalkers.
We have to play to our color's strengths. So what does black have?
We're an aggro deck. We don't need to grind out wins and bury the opponent in card advantage, we simply need to disrupt the opponent and win in the mid-game. We also just need the discard to let us stick a threat. It isn't the all-answer removal, but being B, we can lay down threats while cherry-picking the right cards out of their hands.
3) Cards that say, "Play mono-black instead of making a splash:" Phyrexian Obliterator, Lashewrithe. Are these cards strong enough to play mono black instead of making a splash? That's probably the crux of the whole archetype atm. A relevant issue nobody talks about is that Phyrexian Obliterator swings through a sworded hawk/creature (they can't block it), and Phyrexian Obliterator and/or Lashewrite might put you in a position to race a sword. Does this mean a solved Sword of Feast and Famine is at all pleasant to look at: no. However, at least the game isn't instantly unwinnable. At any rate, I decided to curve out at these cards. Yes, Grave Titan is REALLY good, but perhaps this isn't the deck for him.
Mind Sludge is also a card that is decent enough to consider that says "play mono black." However, I felt that quick targeted discard was more effective for our strategy than emptying their hand turn 5. Hopefully by that point we've put enough pressure on them to have them make bad plays, waste cards, etc.
Vampire Nighthawk is still around, and it's still good. He blocks Titans like a champ, and he's really good against aggro (yes, he does die to removal, but not all removal, like Arc Trail). T4 Lashewrite-->Nighthawk swing 6 gain 6 would be a relatively strong play too. The lifelink off Vampire Nighthawk helps race when it comes to it, helps offset Lashewrithe and Sign in Blood, and could potentially put us far enough out of reach for Valakut for us to squeeze through with a win.
Sign in Blood. No brainer, we need gas, and this is our only real option. Tezzeret's Gambit and Dark Tutelage (we curve out at 4 after all!) might have applications as well. Sign in Blood can kill an opponent too, much isn't always irrelevant.
Cards that were not included:
I felt Black Sun's Zenith neutered too much of our deck to really work out to our advantage sometimes. I think using Tumble Magnet against specific threats and pushing through the damage for the win would be the better strategy.
Gatekeeper of Malakir was a tough card not to include because I know how great it is. But we need to be as fast, and efficient, and we can't afford a useless Gatekeeper (such as kicking it only for them to sacrifice a 1/1 Squadron Hawk when they have 3 more in hand). I think mono-black is so good against aggro that we need to focus our maindeck to other matchups. I think 4 Gatekeepers, 2-3 Black Sun's Zenith in the side should be enough combined with our maindeck Nighthawks and Obliterators to deal with aggro.
[CARD]
Surgical Extraction[/CARD]. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=324218 Please don't debate that in this thread, that's a totally different discussion.
Overall, I feel this deck has game against decks like Caw-Blade, Tezzeret, RUG because it has game against some of its key individual cards. I think the direction we need to take mono black is a fish-type route where we don't try to unsuccessfully win late game, or insufficiently rush early game. We need to find our niche, we should include quick multipurpose disruption+efficient, powerful 3-4 drop threats.
Anyways, feedback and discussion is greatly appreciated.
My very first pick in a draft yesterday was Whispersilk Cloak and it won me two whole matches (four games) all by itself. On your first pack you don't know what color you're going and something like Whispersilk Cloak is a bomb in just about every draft deck. It can provide a win condition with any creature, and at worst you get a shrouded guy if you can't afford to attack. Of course you may take a Planeswalker or other bomb first, but when your rare is something like Goblin Chieftain (which mine was) then a card that is good but doesn't limit your later options is optimal IMO.
It seems to me that this guy doesn't get the love that he deserves.
1) He's almost always a must-kill once he hits the field.
2) Random discard can be so much better than normal discard. There have been so many times when I've hit crucial cards using this card.
3) Since he's flying, he usually hits. (ignoring Vampire Nighthawk)
4) He's always been pretty mana efficient.
When I look at decklists, it seems that Hypnotic Specter loses out to either Black Knight, Bloodghast, or Vampire Hexmage (I'm aware these guys are all two-drops). It's not that I thinking, "I'm right and you guys are wrong about this." I'm just wondering the reasoning behind not running Hypnotic Specter in say an R/B Aggro deck.
Okay, thank you for your criticism. I've realized after posting that most decks do run more than 21 lands. I really should run Dragonskull Summit.
I was wondering about the strength of Guul Draz Specter. It is obviously a strong card, but is it a win-more card? If the opponent has no cards in their hand then you should be pretty far ahead already, right?
I was thinking of Slave of Bolas as removal that doubles as a surprise threat. Are you saying that I should run something more efficient like Terminate? Or should I forgo that slot for removal altogether?
Should I include some threat that just wins instead of every victory being a straight grind?
Hello, I am new to this forums and also new to Type 2. I have played many formats from vintage, to limited, to competitive peasant (lol), but I have never played a game of standard. I'm trying to make a standard deck to compete at my local card shop. I've read the rules and regulations threads, so I hope that I'm going about this deck critique correctly. If not, I apologize.
To preface the decklist, I would like to describe the local metagame. I have friends who go to the tournaments so I was able to scope out some expected decks and opponents. Most of the standard decks aren't exactly "tier 1." There are a lot of decks with ridiculously high mana curves and unstable mana bases. However, I've heard that there are experienced players piloting Elves, Vampires, and Burn lurking around.
So, the deck that I have come up with is the following:
Color Distribution:
Black Spells: 23 (59.0%)
Red Spells: 8 (20.5%)
Gold Spells: 8 (20.5%)
Deck's Goal:
The goal of this deck is to take early control of the board while gaining card advantage via discard. The deck is supposed to be quick, but not in the burn deck sense where the main goal is the opponent's life total. I imagined that the goal of the deck would be to get so far ahead by mid-game that the game is virtually over.
Card Explanations: Creatures Guul Draz AssassinB: A quick one-drop that can take early control of the board. Gatekeeper of MalakirBB: A solid body with a built-in Diabolic Edict. It seems like good card advantage, and it enables early board control. Slavering NullsR1: He's not as good as Hypnotic Specter, but he is still an early attacker that disrupts the opponent. Hypnotic SpecterBB1: I consider this card a foundation of the deck. Its powerful random discard coupled with its evasion makes it a perfect aggro-control creature. Vampire NighthawkBB1: This card seems seriously under-costed to me. It gives me an evasive beater who can hold off fatties (via deathtouch). The lifelink works nicely to minimize Sign in Blood's cost. Instants Lightning BoltR: An under-costed burn that doubles as board control. It belongs in any red deck. Sorceries BlightningBR1: A ridiculously powerful spell that takes a chunk of life while gaining card advantage via making the opponent discard. Slave of BolasBR3: Nets me one more attacker and the opponent one less blocker for a turn. I predict that it will also work excellently against all of the fatties running around. DuressB: The deck is very susceptible to board sweepers and lacks enchantment removal. I figure that duress is an early spells that can get rid of anything threatening. Marsh CasualtiesBB: A powerful, one-sided board sweeper against opposing aggro decks. Sign in BloodBB: I felt that the deck needed some form of draw, and after using the Gatherer this seemed to be the best available option.
Comments:
I realize that there are manyBB costs in the deck. After adding these cards to the deck, I decided that the best route to take would be to create a black deck with a touch of essential red spells. For this reason, I am cautious to add any R costs except very significant red spells to the deck.
Regarding the use of only basic lands, I figured that since the deck wants to come out quick that lands that came into play tapped would hinder my game plan. Is this correct thinking? Or am I really missing out on some good plays with other lands?
Are there too many 4of's? Should I try to diversify the deck more?
What archtypes are the biggest threat to such an aggro-control deck? What cards should I worry about?
I really wanted to play Bituminous Blast, but I couldn't find room for it. I'm still willing to play it if anyone has suggestions of what I should cut for it.
My sideboard is very much an approximation since I've never actually played the decks at the local tournaments. I've scouted other sideboards for black and red decks, but am I missing something essential.
3 Despise
2 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozelik
4 Sign in Blood
2 Go for the Throat
2 Doom Blade
2 Tumble Magnet
Creatures - 14
2 Hex Parasite
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Lashwrithe
Lands - 24
24 Swamp
I'd call this Aggro-Control. We can't go straight aggro, because there are faster aggro options out there. We can't go control, because other colors have ridiculous card advantage and powerful planeswalkers.
We have to play to our color's strengths. So what does black have?
1) Cards that are good against counters? Hex Parasite, Vampire Hexmage. Cards these hit: Planeswalkers, Tumble Magnet, Everflowing Chalice, Pyromancer's Ascension/Quest for the Holy Relic/Beastmaster's Ascension. Also, this messes up an infect deck's combat math. Furthermore, between Vampire Hexmage's first strike and Hex Parasite's conditional firebreathing, these creatures aren't entirely lackluster in combat either.
Note: These cards can synergize with Black Sun's Zenith. Etched Monstrosity too.
2) Efficient, cheap discard. Between Inquisition of Kozelik, Despise, and Duress, we can hit anything relevant in the format. Refer to this thread for a discussion on the pro's abd con's of each: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=322405. My advice is this: know your meta and tune accordingly, and play a lot of it nonetheless.
We're an aggro deck. We don't need to grind out wins and bury the opponent in card advantage, we simply need to disrupt the opponent and win in the mid-game. We also just need the discard to let us stick a threat. It isn't the all-answer removal, but being B, we can lay down threats while cherry-picking the right cards out of their hands.
3) Cards that say, "Play mono-black instead of making a splash:" Phyrexian Obliterator, Lashewrithe. Are these cards strong enough to play mono black instead of making a splash? That's probably the crux of the whole archetype atm. A relevant issue nobody talks about is that Phyrexian Obliterator swings through a sworded hawk/creature (they can't block it), and Phyrexian Obliterator and/or Lashewrite might put you in a position to race a sword. Does this mean a solved Sword of Feast and Famine is at all pleasant to look at: no. However, at least the game isn't instantly unwinnable. At any rate, I decided to curve out at these cards. Yes, Grave Titan is REALLY good, but perhaps this isn't the deck for him.
Mind Sludge is also a card that is decent enough to consider that says "play mono black." However, I felt that quick targeted discard was more effective for our strategy than emptying their hand turn 5. Hopefully by that point we've put enough pressure on them to have them make bad plays, waste cards, etc.
4) Efficient Removal. Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, Grasp of Darkness, Tumble Magnet, Dismember, and Geth's Verdict. I'd say, for the current meta of 6/6 titans, Grasp of Darkness and Dismember may not cut it. I elected for Tumble Magnets because if Sword of Feast and Famine evades our 5 discard effects, and we can still hope to tap them down and race.
So to explain my other choices.
Vampire Nighthawk is still around, and it's still good. He blocks Titans like a champ, and he's really good against aggro (yes, he does die to removal, but not all removal, like Arc Trail). T4 Lashewrite-->Nighthawk swing 6 gain 6 would be a relatively strong play too. The lifelink off Vampire Nighthawk helps race when it comes to it, helps offset Lashewrithe and Sign in Blood, and could potentially put us far enough out of reach for Valakut for us to squeeze through with a win.
Sign in Blood. No brainer, we need gas, and this is our only real option. Tezzeret's Gambit and Dark Tutelage (we curve out at 4 after all!) might have applications as well. Sign in Blood can kill an opponent too, much isn't always irrelevant.
Cards that were not included:
I felt Black Sun's Zenith neutered too much of our deck to really work out to our advantage sometimes. I think using Tumble Magnet against specific threats and pushing through the damage for the win would be the better strategy.
Gatekeeper of Malakir was a tough card not to include because I know how great it is. But we need to be as fast, and efficient, and we can't afford a useless Gatekeeper (such as kicking it only for them to sacrifice a 1/1 Squadron Hawk when they have 3 more in hand). I think mono-black is so good against aggro that we need to focus our maindeck to other matchups. I think 4 Gatekeepers, 2-3 Black Sun's Zenith in the side should be enough combined with our maindeck Nighthawks and Obliterators to deal with aggro.
[CARD]
Surgical Extraction[/CARD]. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=324218 Please don't debate that in this thread, that's a totally different discussion.
Overall, I feel this deck has game against decks like Caw-Blade, Tezzeret, RUG because it has game against some of its key individual cards. I think the direction we need to take mono black is a fish-type route where we don't try to unsuccessfully win late game, or insufficiently rush early game. We need to find our niche, we should include quick multipurpose disruption+efficient, powerful 3-4 drop threats.
Anyways, feedback and discussion is greatly appreciated.
1) He's almost always a must-kill once he hits the field.
2) Random discard can be so much better than normal discard. There have been so many times when I've hit crucial cards using this card.
3) Since he's flying, he usually hits. (ignoring Vampire Nighthawk)
4) He's always been pretty mana efficient.
When I look at decklists, it seems that Hypnotic Specter loses out to either Black Knight, Bloodghast, or Vampire Hexmage (I'm aware these guys are all two-drops). It's not that I thinking, "I'm right and you guys are wrong about this." I'm just wondering the reasoning behind not running Hypnotic Specter in say an R/B Aggro deck.
Creatures: 19
2 Guul Draz Assassin
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Slavering Nulls
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Guul Draz Specter
Instants: 4
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Blightning
2 Duress
4 Sign in Blood
3 Consuming Vapors
Lands: 24
4 Dragonskull Summit
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
14 Swamp
3 Mountain
4 Deathmark
4 Suffer the Past
2 Doomblade
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Sign in Blood
2 Death's Shadow
Mana Curve:
1 Mana: 8 Spells (22.2%)
2 Mana: 10 Spells (27.8%)
3 Mana: 12 Spells (33.3%)
4 Mana: 6 Spells (16.7%)
*Kicker costs unaccounted for*
Color Distribution:
Black Spells: 25 (69.4%)
Red Spells: 7 (19.4%)
Gold Spells: 4 (11.1%)
Adding in those B,R lands will sure up the manabase I guess. I think this list does look a lot more solid all around.
I like consuming vapors too. In fact, I did see that card on the gatherer.
I was wondering about the strength of Guul Draz Specter. It is obviously a strong card, but is it a win-more card? If the opponent has no cards in their hand then you should be pretty far ahead already, right?
I was thinking of Slave of Bolas as removal that doubles as a surprise threat. Are you saying that I should run something more efficient like Terminate? Or should I forgo that slot for removal altogether?
Should I include some threat that just wins instead of every victory being a straight grind?
To preface the decklist, I would like to describe the local metagame. I have friends who go to the tournaments so I was able to scope out some expected decks and opponents. Most of the standard decks aren't exactly "tier 1." There are a lot of decks with ridiculously high mana curves and unstable mana bases. However, I've heard that there are experienced players piloting Elves, Vampires, and Burn lurking around.
So, the deck that I have come up with is the following:
4 Guul Draz Assassin
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Slavering Nulls
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Vampire Nighthawk
Instants: 4
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Blightning
4 Slave of Bolas
2 Duress
2 Marsh Casualties
3 Sign in Blood
Lands: 21
15 Swamp
6 Mountain
4 Deathmark
4 Suffer the Past
4 Doomblade
2 Duress
1 Sign in Blood
Mana Curve:
1 Mana: 10 Spells (25.6%)
2 Mana: 13 Spells (33.3%)
3 Mana: 12 Spells (30.8%)
4 Mana: 0 Spells (0%)
5 Mana: 4 Spells (10.3%)
*Kicker costs unaccounted for*
Color Distribution:
Black Spells: 23 (59.0%)
Red Spells: 8 (20.5%)
Gold Spells: 8 (20.5%)
Deck's Goal:
The goal of this deck is to take early control of the board while gaining card advantage via discard. The deck is supposed to be quick, but not in the burn deck sense where the main goal is the opponent's life total. I imagined that the goal of the deck would be to get so far ahead by mid-game that the game is virtually over.
Card Explanations:
Creatures
Guul Draz AssassinB: A quick one-drop that can take early control of the board.
Gatekeeper of MalakirBB: A solid body with a built-in Diabolic Edict. It seems like good card advantage, and it enables early board control.
Slavering NullsR1: He's not as good as Hypnotic Specter, but he is still an early attacker that disrupts the opponent.
Hypnotic SpecterBB1: I consider this card a foundation of the deck. Its powerful random discard coupled with its evasion makes it a perfect aggro-control creature.
Vampire NighthawkBB1: This card seems seriously under-costed to me. It gives me an evasive beater who can hold off fatties (via deathtouch). The lifelink works nicely to minimize Sign in Blood's cost.
Instants
Lightning BoltR: An under-costed burn that doubles as board control. It belongs in any red deck.
Sorceries
BlightningBR1: A ridiculously powerful spell that takes a chunk of life while gaining card advantage via making the opponent discard.
Slave of BolasBR3: Nets me one more attacker and the opponent one less blocker for a turn. I predict that it will also work excellently against all of the fatties running around.
DuressB: The deck is very susceptible to board sweepers and lacks enchantment removal. I figure that duress is an early spells that can get rid of anything threatening.
Marsh CasualtiesBB: A powerful, one-sided board sweeper against opposing aggro decks.
Sign in BloodBB: I felt that the deck needed some form of draw, and after using the Gatherer this seemed to be the best available option.
Comments:
I realize that there are many BB costs in the deck. After adding these cards to the deck, I decided that the best route to take would be to create a black deck with a touch of essential red spells. For this reason, I am cautious to add any R costs except very significant red spells to the deck.
Regarding the use of only basic lands, I figured that since the deck wants to come out quick that lands that came into play tapped would hinder my game plan. Is this correct thinking? Or am I really missing out on some good plays with other lands?
Are there too many 4of's? Should I try to diversify the deck more?
What archtypes are the biggest threat to such an aggro-control deck? What cards should I worry about?
I really wanted to play Bituminous Blast, but I couldn't find room for it. I'm still willing to play it if anyone has suggestions of what I should cut for it.
My sideboard is very much an approximation since I've never actually played the decks at the local tournaments. I've scouted other sideboards for black and red decks, but am I missing something essential.
Thank you in advance for your suggestions!