Hey guys, bought a few rtr packs today and pulled a foil architect with a vertical miscut. Knowing that jace is hot right now how do you think this will effect it's price?
Hello all. I just want to start by saying how amazing this deck has performed for me. I took first this FNM and First on Saturday. My list is almost identical to Saga's list. BTW Saga you are the man. The mana curve alone has won me so many games. There is almost always a relevant drop every turn.
My only differences are the sideboard and I don't run the single Gideon, just another Garruk. Although Gideon was in my sideboard originally. I do feel however that three garruks are unnecessary so I may test the Gideon main.
Honestly I don't remember a whole lot of details about the matches because they went so well in my favor. I did pick out a few key thoughts from these games.
- Kred sucks to play, play flawlessly game one. Game two/three use ratchet. I would recommend mulliganing until one is in hand. Save it and play like a sorc and blow up their dudes. Also bonehoard is MVP lategame.
- anything aggro I side out everything over 4 mana to make the deck have a lower curve.
A question for you all though. In a couple weeks there is a 1k tourny in my area. I feel pretty confident with the sideboard, but i was wondering if there is a SB card you all feel you can not survive without avaunt the proven competitive meta.
Hello all. I just want to start by saying how amazing this deck has performed for me. I took first this FNM and First on Saturday. My list is almost identical to Saga's list. BTW Saga you are the man. The mana curve alone has won me so many games. There is almost always a relevant drop every turn.
My only differences are the sideboard and I don't run the single Gideon, just another Garruk. Although Gideon was in my sideboard originally. I do feel however that three garruks are unnecessary so I may test the Gideon main.
Honestly I don't remember a whole lot of details about the matches because they went so well in my favor. I did pick out a few key thoughts from these games.
- Kred sucks to play, play flawlessly game one. Game two/three use ratchet. I would recommend mulliganing until one is in hand. Save it and play like a sorc and blow up their dudes. Also bonehoard is MVP lategame.
- anything aggro I side out everything over 4 mana to make the deck have a lower curve.
A question for you all though. In a couple weeks there is a 1k tourny in my area. I feel pretty confident with the sideboard, but i was wondering if there is a SB card you all feel you can not survive without avaunt the proven competitive meta.
@Guru- I run a list very similar to yours. A few questions if you don't mind.
- How has the two preordains worked out for you? I've considered doing the same.
- Why not a 3/3 split for doom blade and GFtT? Just a meta call I suspect...
- I would think JTMS would work well with the two preordains. Is it budget reasons or have you found him out of place?
@Meow-Go Community - Has anyone tested Black Sun's Zenith? With all the card draw I would think we could benefit from it's recursion over DoJ.
I recently sleeved up the esper version of this deck. I really enjoy playing it and intend on taking it to FNM this week. I apologize if this has already been discussed but I'm on my phone and it's a pain to scroll through all the pages. My meta involves elves, kuldotha, a few knights decks, etc. Has anyone attempted to use black suns zenith to shut these decks down? And if so would you edit the mana base to accommodate? Thanks guys.
I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a Turbo Fog thread in a while and I double checked to make sure there isn't a recent one, but if I'm wrong for posting let me know, I'm fairly new to these forums.
I took this to FNM this week and did better than I thought I would, 3-1 and third overall. But First the list:
Round One: TurboLand (ish) 0-1
This deck used layline of Anticipation to play Avenger of Zendikar at the end of your turn. Pretty Ingenious. lots of counters. But i lost cause of a dang Lorescale Cotyl of all things. Card draw made him huge. This is the reason I want Mystifying Maze instead of Tectonic Edge. Lost the first, won second, lost third to a Time Reversal.
Round Two: B/G Aggro 1-1
Won this on angel song and safe passage recursion via Elixir. Jace's Erasure showed its true face in this match. 3x Jace's Erasure a couple howling mines and fonts + an Archive Trap or two makes games go by quick. Won the first and third games here. Sideboarded out Relics for Brittle Effigy.
Round Three: RDW 2-1
Won the first with a lucky 2x Elixir in opening hand. Second game Sided in Leylines for Relics. Not in opening hand but topdecked around turn 3. Played turn 4.
Round Four: Mono-Green aggro 3-1
Lots of Fogging here. Player didnt seem to have naturalizes. Took game 1 and 2.
Overall fun to play. Didnt get to play against any Jund or Conscription though. Id like to see if the cancels in the sideboard can stand up to Pulse. I think Mystifying Maze could really mess with an Eldrazi consripted birds of paradise though.
Due to the nature of the salvage slasher wouldn't you want to keep your GY to a max? The Immortal Coil seems kind of counter productive. What if you used time sieve instead. I know this changes things a bit. But you add five artifacts to the GY and get to take the needed turn to swing with the slasher asap. Food for thought.
Thanks Barret and Battle for the responses, I'm really thankful that people took the suggestions from me and Bassman to heart and are having some success. Top 8'd-ing a 1k is no joke, and your notes not only showed that you took in a lot of understanding from your matches but they also helped me with speculating on better board strategy and sideboard choices. Really awesome stuff guys, and it's always so cool to see one of these MTG threads dodge the hate and help people win some magic.
Your Welcome Polizei, Question for you though. This was my first tourney beyond FNM and I never really pay attention to what I sideboarded after the tourney is over, which I know is important to reflect on. Do you take notes during the tourney to keep a solid report?
- Barret, for the future list, you could probably adjust the sideboard for 3 Duress and 2 Thought Hemorrhage. I think both are worth having, but Duress is pretty important in the Polymorph matchup and to help fight spreading seas. The only reason I don't suggest running 4 is because it would cut out other necessary board cards and because duress later in the game is generally dead weight whereas hemorrhage is always good.
- Mythic and Naya are easily the toughest matchups IMO, and have been since those decks were created. The balanced list that you took to the 1k has a fair chance against them, but is most certainly a dog in game 1. The problem is, that's kinda the way you have to roll because if you put in cards that make the mythic matchup better, those cards are almost assuredly bad against the Mirror, U/W, and Planeswalker Control. Game 2, I noticed you were bringing in Ruinblasters but said that you forgot to bring in Consuming Vapors (at least in the first match). Vapors is a POWERHOUSE against mythic alongside of terminate + doomblade + pulse, and so I would assuredly board differently in the future (ruinblaster is way too small a creature despite the ability to kill manlands). Once you board against mythic, if you have a semi-reasonable draw you should be able to just straight up kill everything they play (especially if you turn 4 vapors after some early removal). Then your guys like leech or thrinax can finish the job. The problem is, that strategy doesn't work in game 1 because you don't have enough removal, and sometimes you might just get crappy hands in game 2 (like what happened to me in the standard tourney this weekend). I tested this matchup with so many friggin cards from Bloodwitch to Master and have faced a lot of great players, but Vapors just absolutely shines here. Not only is it an answer to sphinx of jar isle or a conscripted creature, it's also just a fantastic life-catchup and occasionally a time-walk. That guy's spreading seas sideboard move in the quarter finals match was very unusual, I wouldn't expect that ever but you thankfully made a good sideboard adjustment by bringing in duress.
- Lastly, after seeing Barret's 1k report, it convinces me even more that the build of mine he used is probably the right direction. I liked some of the eldrazi/cobra elements that I played this weekend, but it was really hokey-pokey and a huggge dog to mythic (as if it wasn't already bad enough). I think the presence of several Garruks and 4 maindeck pulses will really make that U/W/R matchup possible to win (as Barret was able to), and that seems like the primary goal right now since two major archetypes of similar style are considered the "top dogs". The sideboard shores up a lot of concerns, and adds a few cards of interest for even those matchups.
I definitely agree with removing a thought hemorrhage for a duress, but part of me wants to run 3 ruinblasters and adding another duress. I feel that, at least in my experiences that it is common knowledge spreading seas messes us up. Also I feel that the two rampants should be Trace of abundance. Color intensive, yes, but shroud on a manland is priceless especially in a spreading seas heavy environment. Also, I feel that i usually chose Garruk as what i would take out during sideboarding, am i wrong for this?
- As much as I have Consuming Vapors in the board for aggro, I've heard buzz about it being good against control, and then Barret you obviously used it in that scenario too. Just out of curiosity, do you remember what exactly you boarded out and in versus the U/W/R deck in the top 8?
So here is my sideboard options for the whole tourney (to the best of my knowledge, because I didnt think to keep track after the rounds) with some thoughts on the decisions.
Round 1 Poly
+3 Doomblade - more instant speed token removal to help poly fizzle like it deserves to be.
+2 duress for the poly
+2 hemorrhage - poly
-2 leech - not sure why
-3 broodmate - would rather keep 2 mana available after a BBE for Blade or terminate
-3 garruk - 4 drop spot for hemorrhage
Round 2 Mythic
+3 doomblade - more removal for those pesky angels
+4 ruinblaster - he was pretty reliant on the colonnade
-3 broodmate - worried about speed
-4 thrinax - stupid Wall of Omens
Round 3 Gladiators
+2 Duress - gets rid of planeswalkers and seas
+3 Doomblade - for Jura to save pulses for other walkers
+4 Hemorrhage - naming Elspeth Knight Errant
-4 Thrinax - WoO
-3 Garruk - tokens are nullified
-2 rampant - ??
Round 4 Conscription
+3 Doomblade - for sovereigns
-3 leeches - want to save some life
Round 6
First game went too smooth so I just left it the way it was
Top 8 against Gladiators
+3 Hemorrhage - Elspeth
+2 Duress - Seas / Walkers
+3 Consuming Vapors - MVP!! - I figured gaining four life and removing a wall of omens was a good call, i never could have expected to gain 8 and take out Wall of Denial
-4 Thrinax - again walls
-3 broodmate - save mana for removal
-1 rampant - ??
Top 4 Mythic bant same sideboard from round 3, just was not good enough though.
I hope this gives some enlightenment as to what i learned.
With this being my first post on MTGS i would first like to say hello. Also thanks to Polizei for his decklist and detailed SB tips. His list is as stated.
Ford, all those lists are on http://www.starcitygames.com today (just look on the right side, for "Standard" and they have links for top 8 for about 5 or 6 different major cities from the PTQs of 5/2/2010)
Btw, here's what I've decided on-
Ironing out my Dirty Jundies for tomorrow, I think I'll just have to take a balanced approach-
U/W/R Planeswalkers-
+4 Goblin Ruinblaster, +3 Thought Hemorrhage, +2 Duress
-4 Lightning Bolt, -3 Broodmate Dragon, -2 Terminate
(alternatively, you could keep in BD, and maybe not bring in ruinblaster)
Again, these are all suggestive, a lot of these can change based on opinion or given matchups. Just putting something out there for this weekend.
I entered a 1K tourney in WA tonight with this list. I took 8th in the swiss and 3rd after the top eight matches.
First round was polymorph. 2-1
first game I just kept the tokens down.
lost game two to a turn three poly into emrakul
game three was easy after a successful thought hemorrhage naming poly.
Second round Mythic Bant 2-1.
Game one loss, mul to 5 he had ideal hand, lame.
Sideboard doomblade and ruinblaster, forgot about consuming vapors this round for some dumb reason, i think i could have done well here.
Game two went ideal for me, a few blightnings terminates and ruinblasters for the manlands.
Game three took us almost to turns. trading card for card, Raging ravine was mvp here, and an amazing topdeck doomblade after he flops a topdeck baneslayer which i was sure would finish me. then raging ravine with 2 counters finishes him.
Third round was against Gladiators. 2-0
This deck either didnt run Spreading seas or I just never saw them. He was running Tectonic Edge though. Not sure if my strategy was spot on or I just got lucky because is simply did not play the fourth land for turns 4-7 in both of our games and had no problem with 2 and three drops finishing him with little effort, Duress was a winner for sure.
Fourth Round was against Conscripton. 0-2
Great player he took 4th overall. I hadnt had much experience with the conscription deck. Wasnt too sure of sideboarding etc.
Fifth round was Gladiators again. 1-2
This time it was a different story. Better player, Spreading seas suck. I learned alot about the deck this time though. Save the Doom Blades and Terminates for Gideon. Pulses and Thought Hemorrhages for Elspeth, Swing into the mindsculptor and Vengent. This is the player I will play in top 8.
Sixth round was Conscription again. 2-0
I know this player very will so I know the play style to my advantage. Did not show any reserve which is bad when you know the player has pulses.
The second game he was mana screwed, but ill still take it for a win.
First round top 8. The Gladiator player from round 5. 2-1
With the new insight to his deck i felt better prepared. I reserved the kills for Gideon and the pulses for the other walkers. although never got off a hemorrhage. But what won me the game was Consuming Vapors. I owe my winnings to this card. I dont know what made me choose this in a mostly planeswalker deck but I knew the wall of Omens could be a good life swing after resolving this beauty. Wall of Denial was his sideboard of choice for jund. It felt soo good to gain 8 life from a sac'd WoD, Which then allowed me to swing in for the win. He was so sure of himself after the wall hit the field.
Second round top 8. Mythic Bant. 0-2
Game one. t2 spreading seas, t3 spreading seas:mad:, sitting on two swamps and two other lands that produce blue, yay!
Game two, I play first - swamp - duress- remove the ONLY seas in his hand, i think sweet maybe i can pull this one off. T2 raging ravine, pass. He top decks a Spreading Seas, f--k my life, then mindsculptor keeps any worthwhile lands off the top, elspeth + knight of the reliquary = loss.
My only differences are the sideboard and I don't run the single Gideon, just another Garruk. Although Gideon was in my sideboard originally. I do feel however that three garruks are unnecessary so I may test the Gideon main.
2 Day of Judgement (elves/Kred etc.)
2 Revoke Existance (wurmcoil)
3 Condemn (Colossus/Grave/BSA/Pumped Infect)
4 Ratchet Bomb (Kred/Wurm tokens/Grave tokens)
4 Nihil Spellbomb (Mirror/anything wVengevine)
Honestly I don't remember a whole lot of details about the matches because they went so well in my favor. I did pick out a few key thoughts from these games.
- Kred sucks to play, play flawlessly game one. Game two/three use ratchet. I would recommend mulliganing until one is in hand. Save it and play like a sorc and blow up their dudes. Also bonehoard is MVP lategame.
- anything aggro I side out everything over 4 mana to make the deck have a lower curve.
A question for you all though. In a couple weeks there is a 1k tourny in my area. I feel pretty confident with the sideboard, but i was wondering if there is a SB card you all feel you can not survive without avaunt the proven competitive meta.
Thanks
My only differences are the sideboard and I don't run the single Gideon, just another Garruk. Although Gideon was in my sideboard originally. I do feel however that three garruks are unnecessary so I may test the Gideon main.
2 Day of Judgement (elves/Kred etc.)
2 Revoke Existance (wurmcoil)
3 Condemn (Colossus/Grave/BSA/Pumped Infect)
4 Ratchet Bomb (Kred/Wurm tokens/Grave tokens)
4 Nihil Spellbomb (Mirror/anything wVengevine)
Honestly I don't remember a whole lot of details about the matches because they went so well in my favor. I did pick out a few key thoughts from these games.
- Kred sucks to play, play flawlessly game one. Game two/three use ratchet. I would recommend mulliganing until one is in hand. Save it and play like a sorc and blow up their dudes. Also bonehoard is MVP lategame.
- anything aggro I side out everything over 4 mana to make the deck have a lower curve.
A question for you all though. In a couple weeks there is a 1k tourny in my area. I feel pretty confident with the sideboard, but i was wondering if there is a SB card you all feel you can not survive without avaunt the proven competitive meta.
Thanks
- How has the two preordains worked out for you? I've considered doing the same.
- Why not a 3/3 split for doom blade and GFtT? Just a meta call I suspect...
- I would think JTMS would work well with the two preordains. Is it budget reasons or have you found him out of place?
@Meow-Go Community - Has anyone tested Black Sun's Zenith? With all the card draw I would think we could benefit from it's recursion over DoJ.
Thanks, just trying to pick your brains a bit.
Edit: nevermind didn't catch that it's already in your side
I took this to FNM this week and did better than I thought I would, 3-1 and third overall. But First the list:
6x Plains
6x Island
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Tectonic Edge (Really needed to be Mystifying Maze)
Creatures:
1x Ulamog, the infinite Gyre (Just to discard)
Non Creature:
4x Safe Passage
4x Angelsong
4x Archive Trap
4x Jace's Erasure
4x Howling Mine
4x Font of Mythos
4x Temple Bell (I really like the controlled card draw)
4x Everflowing Chalice (Could probably cut one or two)
4x Elixir of Immortality (MVP vs Aggro/RDW)
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Solemn Offering (For Leyline of Sanctity if I ran into it.)
2x Cancel (For Pulse or Naturalize)
4x Brittle Effigy (Needed Some Kind of Removal)
2x Silence (Thought this would be nice against RDW)
3x Leyline of Sanctity (RDW)
Round One: TurboLand (ish) 0-1
This deck used layline of Anticipation to play Avenger of Zendikar at the end of your turn. Pretty Ingenious. lots of counters. But i lost cause of a dang Lorescale Cotyl of all things. Card draw made him huge. This is the reason I want Mystifying Maze instead of Tectonic Edge. Lost the first, won second, lost third to a Time Reversal.
Round Two: B/G Aggro 1-1
Won this on angel song and safe passage recursion via Elixir. Jace's Erasure showed its true face in this match. 3x Jace's Erasure a couple howling mines and fonts + an Archive Trap or two makes games go by quick. Won the first and third games here. Sideboarded out Relics for Brittle Effigy.
Round Three: RDW 2-1
Won the first with a lucky 2x Elixir in opening hand. Second game Sided in Leylines for Relics. Not in opening hand but topdecked around turn 3. Played turn 4.
Round Four: Mono-Green aggro 3-1
Lots of Fogging here. Player didnt seem to have naturalizes. Took game 1 and 2.
Overall fun to play. Didnt get to play against any Jund or Conscription though. Id like to see if the cancels in the sideboard can stand up to Pulse. I think Mystifying Maze could really mess with an Eldrazi consripted birds of paradise though.
I'd love to hear any thoughts you have. Thanks.
Your Welcome Polizei, Question for you though. This was my first tourney beyond FNM and I never really pay attention to what I sideboarded after the tourney is over, which I know is important to reflect on. Do you take notes during the tourney to keep a solid report?
I definitely agree with removing a thought hemorrhage for a duress, but part of me wants to run 3 ruinblasters and adding another duress. I feel that, at least in my experiences that it is common knowledge spreading seas messes us up. Also I feel that the two rampants should be Trace of abundance. Color intensive, yes, but shroud on a manland is priceless especially in a spreading seas heavy environment. Also, I feel that i usually chose Garruk as what i would take out during sideboarding, am i wrong for this?
So here is my sideboard options for the whole tourney (to the best of my knowledge, because I didnt think to keep track after the rounds) with some thoughts on the decisions.
Round 1 Poly
+3 Doomblade - more instant speed token removal to help poly fizzle like it deserves to be.
+2 duress for the poly
+2 hemorrhage - poly
-2 leech - not sure why
-3 broodmate - would rather keep 2 mana available after a BBE for Blade or terminate
-3 garruk - 4 drop spot for hemorrhage
Round 2 Mythic
+3 doomblade - more removal for those pesky angels
+4 ruinblaster - he was pretty reliant on the colonnade
-3 broodmate - worried about speed
-4 thrinax - stupid Wall of Omens
Round 3 Gladiators
+2 Duress - gets rid of planeswalkers and seas
+3 Doomblade - for Jura to save pulses for other walkers
+4 Hemorrhage - naming Elspeth Knight Errant
-4 Thrinax - WoO
-3 Garruk - tokens are nullified
-2 rampant - ??
Round 4 Conscription
+3 Doomblade - for sovereigns
-3 leeches - want to save some life
Round 5 Gladiators
+4 Ruinblaster - colonnade
+2 Duress - walkers / seas
+3 Hemorrhage - elspeth
-4 Thrinax - Wall of Omen
-2 Broodmate - speed
-3 Garruk - Nulled tokens
Round 6
First game went too smooth so I just left it the way it was
Top 8 against Gladiators
+3 Hemorrhage - Elspeth
+2 Duress - Seas / Walkers
+3 Consuming Vapors - MVP!! - I figured gaining four life and removing a wall of omens was a good call, i never could have expected to gain 8 and take out Wall of Denial
-4 Thrinax - again walls
-3 broodmate - save mana for removal
-1 rampant - ??
Top 4 Mythic bant same sideboard from round 3, just was not good enough though.
I hope this gives some enlightenment as to what i learned.
I entered a 1K tourney in WA tonight with this list. I took 8th in the swiss and 3rd after the top eight matches.
First round was polymorph. 2-1
first game I just kept the tokens down.
lost game two to a turn three poly into emrakul
game three was easy after a successful thought hemorrhage naming poly.
Second round Mythic Bant 2-1.
Game one loss, mul to 5 he had ideal hand, lame.
Sideboard doomblade and ruinblaster, forgot about consuming vapors this round for some dumb reason, i think i could have done well here.
Game two went ideal for me, a few blightnings terminates and ruinblasters for the manlands.
Game three took us almost to turns. trading card for card, Raging ravine was mvp here, and an amazing topdeck doomblade after he flops a topdeck baneslayer which i was sure would finish me. then raging ravine with 2 counters finishes him.
Third round was against Gladiators. 2-0
This deck either didnt run Spreading seas or I just never saw them. He was running Tectonic Edge though. Not sure if my strategy was spot on or I just got lucky because is simply did not play the fourth land for turns 4-7 in both of our games and had no problem with 2 and three drops finishing him with little effort, Duress was a winner for sure.
Fourth Round was against Conscripton. 0-2
Great player he took 4th overall. I hadnt had much experience with the conscription deck. Wasnt too sure of sideboarding etc.
Fifth round was Gladiators again. 1-2
This time it was a different story. Better player, Spreading seas suck. I learned alot about the deck this time though. Save the Doom Blades and Terminates for Gideon. Pulses and Thought Hemorrhages for Elspeth, Swing into the mindsculptor and Vengent. This is the player I will play in top 8.
Sixth round was Conscription again. 2-0
I know this player very will so I know the play style to my advantage. Did not show any reserve which is bad when you know the player has pulses.
The second game he was mana screwed, but ill still take it for a win.
First round top 8. The Gladiator player from round 5. 2-1
With the new insight to his deck i felt better prepared. I reserved the kills for Gideon and the pulses for the other walkers. although never got off a hemorrhage. But what won me the game was Consuming Vapors. I owe my winnings to this card. I dont know what made me choose this in a mostly planeswalker deck but I knew the wall of Omens could be a good life swing after resolving this beauty. Wall of Denial was his sideboard of choice for jund. It felt soo good to gain 8 life from a sac'd WoD, Which then allowed me to swing in for the win. He was so sure of himself after the wall hit the field.
Second round top 8. Mythic Bant. 0-2
Game one. t2 spreading seas, t3 spreading seas:mad:, sitting on two swamps and two other lands that produce blue, yay!
Game two, I play first - swamp - duress- remove the ONLY seas in his hand, i think sweet maybe i can pull this one off. T2 raging ravine, pass. He top decks a Spreading Seas, f--k my life, then mindsculptor keeps any worthwhile lands off the top, elspeth + knight of the reliquary = loss.