I don't think Tectonic Edge (the "new wasteland") is playable. You can only hit nonbasics after they have 4+ lands (when the wasteland effect is barely noticeable) and you have to use another land to pay mana into the ability. As spoiled, I think the new one is terrible. Worse than Dust Bowl and Ghost Quarter and not playable in eternal formats.
ok i understand that serra avenger is extremely powerful and can attack then block which is important in this deck.. but because your using aether vile for ur creatures anyway. would Descendant of Kiyomaro have a place here? because in D&T against quick aggro or sligh i have a problom of speed or not winning the race. and normally i have a vastly larger hand then those decks by turn 2-3 so this 3cc is a 3/5 lifegainer that cant be bolted.. and jitte him and even more so... maybe??
I don't really like Descendant as a MD card. What you can do is cut some number of Stonecloaker from a pre-M10 list and put in Kitchen Finks. Those do pretty well at stemming the aggro tide.
For crying out loud, people! Learn how Valakut works! Nightcreep works just fine to hose Scapeshift into Valakut + bunch of mountains.
Quote from Channelfireball »
Situation: I resolve Scapeshift, bringing in six Mountains and Valakut. With the Valakut triggers on the stack, you Ghost Quarter one of my Mountains, and I am unable to find a basic Mountain in my deck. Valakut fizzles, and you take no damage. Why? Ah, it’s the classic “intervening if clause.” Valakut checks twice – both when it enters the battlefield, and again upon resolution. If the condition isn’t met upon resolution (because there aren’t enough Mountains in play), then the ability fizzles and that’s that.
However, if you Ghost Quarter the Valakut itself, the ability does resolve, because Valakut’s condition is “if you control at least five other Mountains,” not “if you control at least five other Mountains and Valakut is in play.” So be careful.
Well, I was going to keep my knowledge of the Venser deck to a footnote in my last post and then talk via PMs, but I guess there is some relevance to D&T (um, x4 Karakas? lol) and more people interested than I figured.
I don't know the exact list, only what I saw during one round (after being crushed by affinity super quick) and a bit when he was seated next to me. So, this is what I saw played:
The rest is basically unknown. I assume he is playing x4 Swords to Plowshares. It is basically U/W Fish with a Karakas late game. This could easily play Mangara, or splash green for goyf/war monk/pridemage/kgrip. I don't think this deck has a way to "cheat" the Sea Drake drawback (but it does have an interesting interaction with KotWO and brainstorm+fetch). I have no idea what his sideboard is, other than some meddling mages.
The game I watched this deck win involved a g/w beatdown deck, where venser would fog a guy and bounce a guy while Sea Drake bashed in the air. It also dominated vs u/w landstill.
I threw this deck together finally and have been playtesting it solo and enjoy it and all, but I'm a little unsure about how good Jitte is. It just seems like I always would rather play a creature out of my hand..
Then again, there aren't too many 2-drops running around in the deck, especially in the mono-white version.
What do you guys think about Jitte? It's in like every single decklist I've seen, so I trust it's inclusion, but I'm still skeptical.
It does definitely help against the zoo matchup..
Jitte has many purposes. First, it makes you win creature combat. Especially in the monowhite version, you need to compete with Goyf. Jitte lets you do that.
Second, it is creature removal. With "only" 4 stp and around 3 O-ring (which are frequently targeted by Qasali Pridemage), you need the help.
Third, it buys you time to get your mangara engine going. Killing creatures, gaining life, and buying time. Awesome.
Fourth, it can act as a finisher, greatly increasing your clock.
And don't forget the awesome synergy with Serra Avenger. Counters on the attack and the block? Yes, please.
I highly recommend 3 Jitte for the MD.
Aside from a response to the above, I dusted off my monowhite D&T list today for a local tourney (b/c someone was borrowing my canadian thresh list, which had all my fows, duals, fetches, goyfs, wastelands (ran ports), etc. and hadn't returned from the holiday vacation...).
Anyway, beat u/w/b landstill round 1 game 1. I was very excited. Thanks, t1 aether vial! You totally resolved! Of course, I drew the match since I mulled to 5 game 2, but what can you do (and I lost the next round to affinity after a mull to 4 followed by the robots getting ravager followed immediately by disciple... ouch. There went the tournament.). Just wanted to throw that out there. ;p
On yet another note, the tournament was won with a u/w deck sporting Venser, Shaper Savant and Karakas. The interaction was very powerful, and I was glad to see Karakas seeing some play other than in D&T.
I should also point out that moat in legacy is not a huge threat as not very many decks play it. Worse for aggro and a bit more common would be Maze of Ith and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Those are devastating early game and can win matches on their own and are difficult to deal with
Moat was used historically. He was using it as a metaphor for control cards, in general.
Captshetz, I am actually pretty sure I had more white sources in there. It does look a bit thin, and there's no way I could have gotten through testing like that. I must've made a goof since there are only 21 lands there, but I am sure it was not a Plains.
That makes Doran marginally more useful. It also straightens out the manabase a bit more.
I'm seeing decklists of D&T still holding onto Stonecloaker making it onto deckcheck, so maybe not all is lost. Interesting that we are also seeing splashes on deckcheck, too.
So to cast Mangara or Serra Avenger, you need to have either both of your white dual lands or one of them and your legendary land? That seems rather bad, especially since aether vial is not a guarantee (not drawn, gets countered or destroyed).
I think the swamp should be a basic plains, and maybe swap a verdant catacombs with a marsh flats (you don't need green until turn 2 anyway, but you need black or white turn 1). Karakas doesn't really count since it is legendary and can't be fetched, and hence can never make WW.
Black and green seem like more the splash colors, since you never need GG or BB. Of course, I'd even go so far as to -1 Doran, +1 Steppe Lynx, and then I'd go -2 Doran +2 something awesome (finks? tombstalker?), since Doran seems like a terrible spell (it interacts with Karakas! and... so did Isamaru? Wouldn't something else be better? and then wouldn't the karakas engine be more clunky than it is worth, and we'd be better playing deadguy ale?) but maybe I'd be getting ahead of myself.
Current mana symbols on spells distribution:
White: 27 (52%)
Black: 14 (27%)
Green: 11 (21%)
Current mana symbols on lands:
White: 6 (4 of them karakas and all nonbasic) 38%
Black: 5 31%
Green: 5 31%
Your white mana, upon which you are most dependent, just seems to be the most vulnerable.
I don't really like Descendant as a MD card. What you can do is cut some number of Stonecloaker from a pre-M10 list and put in Kitchen Finks. Those do pretty well at stemming the aggro tide.
And not much holds a Jitte better than Avenger.
Don't go unprepared.
http://strategy.channelfireball.com/featured-articles/careful-consideration-oh-extended-youre-so-tricky/
I don't know the exact list, only what I saw during one round (after being crushed by affinity super quick) and a bit when he was seated next to me. So, this is what I saw played:
Venser, Shaper Savant (at least x2)
Vendilion Clique
Sea Drake
Karakas (at least x2)
Daze
Force of Will
Spellsnare
Brainstorm
Ponder
Knight of the White Orchid
Elspeth, Knight Errant (x1)
Some number of Meddling Mage, but likely boarded
Islands, Tundras, Plains, Flooded Strands
The rest is basically unknown. I assume he is playing x4 Swords to Plowshares. It is basically U/W Fish with a Karakas late game. This could easily play Mangara, or splash green for goyf/war monk/pridemage/kgrip. I don't think this deck has a way to "cheat" the Sea Drake drawback (but it does have an interesting interaction with KotWO and brainstorm+fetch). I have no idea what his sideboard is, other than some meddling mages.
The game I watched this deck win involved a g/w beatdown deck, where venser would fog a guy and bounce a guy while Sea Drake bashed in the air. It also dominated vs u/w landstill.
Jitte has many purposes. First, it makes you win creature combat. Especially in the monowhite version, you need to compete with Goyf. Jitte lets you do that.
Second, it is creature removal. With "only" 4 stp and around 3 O-ring (which are frequently targeted by Qasali Pridemage), you need the help.
Third, it buys you time to get your mangara engine going. Killing creatures, gaining life, and buying time. Awesome.
Fourth, it can act as a finisher, greatly increasing your clock.
And don't forget the awesome synergy with Serra Avenger. Counters on the attack and the block? Yes, please.
I highly recommend 3 Jitte for the MD.
Aside from a response to the above, I dusted off my monowhite D&T list today for a local tourney (b/c someone was borrowing my canadian thresh list, which had all my fows, duals, fetches, goyfs, wastelands (ran ports), etc. and hadn't returned from the holiday vacation...).
Anyway, beat u/w/b landstill round 1 game 1. I was very excited. Thanks, t1 aether vial! You totally resolved! Of course, I drew the match since I mulled to 5 game 2, but what can you do (and I lost the next round to affinity after a mull to 4 followed by the robots getting ravager followed immediately by disciple... ouch. There went the tournament.). Just wanted to throw that out there. ;p
On yet another note, the tournament was won with a u/w deck sporting Venser, Shaper Savant and Karakas. The interaction was very powerful, and I was glad to see Karakas seeing some play other than in D&T.
Moat was used historically. He was using it as a metaphor for control cards, in general.
That makes Doran marginally more useful. It also straightens out the manabase a bit more.
I'm seeing decklists of D&T still holding onto Stonecloaker making it onto deckcheck, so maybe not all is lost. Interesting that we are also seeing splashes on deckcheck, too.
Tranquility hasn't been legal since 7th edition.
Tempest of Light, maybe.
I think the swamp should be a basic plains, and maybe swap a verdant catacombs with a marsh flats (you don't need green until turn 2 anyway, but you need black or white turn 1). Karakas doesn't really count since it is legendary and can't be fetched, and hence can never make WW.
Black and green seem like more the splash colors, since you never need GG or BB. Of course, I'd even go so far as to -1 Doran, +1 Steppe Lynx, and then I'd go -2 Doran +2 something awesome (finks? tombstalker?), since Doran seems like a terrible spell (it interacts with Karakas! and... so did Isamaru? Wouldn't something else be better? and then wouldn't the karakas engine be more clunky than it is worth, and we'd be better playing deadguy ale?) but maybe I'd be getting ahead of myself.
Current mana symbols on spells distribution:
White: 27 (52%)
Black: 14 (27%)
Green: 11 (21%)
Current mana symbols on lands:
White: 6 (4 of them karakas and all nonbasic) 38%
Black: 5 31%
Green: 5 31%
Your white mana, upon which you are most dependent, just seems to be the most vulnerable.
If you want to play them BOTH, that is perfectly reasonable and seems to be a viable Jund sideboard strategy for the mirror.