Siding out Mangara vs Merfolk is wrong. Mangara + Karakas is how I typically win this matchup (Serra Avenger + Equipment is the second way).
Teeg stops FOW and... nothing else. Congrats on your legendary bear. Merfolk can side out FOW against you anyway. If they can't stop the vial, it is worthless, and even if they do, none of your guys are worth forcing (ok, you run goyf, but as you noticed, they don't really fear that race).
I really don't see the need to sideboard at all vs the blue men, unless you are siding OUT your Teegs for Canonists (stops Reejery chain, and its nice to have an uncounterable swords to plowshares every now and again).
Congrats on winning packs. I like your list, even if I miss Karakas #4 (and how I want to cram more 3castingcost guys into G/W D&T, but reason must prevail!).
Cataclysm is only good against merfolk if you can get rid of their Aether Vial, imo (or have your own vial and something amazing in play, like Grunt or Avenger...or a huge Figure of Destiny. :P). Not only that, but it is a huge Daze liability. As a side note, Kitchen Finks combos pretty well with cataclysm... Anyway, back to fighting merfolk.
I guess I am not that familiar with the new aggro merfolk vs D&T matchup, since its been awhile since I've seen that match played out and the lists have changed a lot, but it usually came down to resolving vial and getting a mangara in play. Once that happens, they really have no outs. Of course, the ticket is living that long.
Sword of Fire and Ice or Umezawa's Jitte can break this match right open. I imagine resolving a Stoneforge Mystic allows you to completely take over, since she can "vial" in an equipment - too bad this is incredibly slow.
Prior to coralhelm commander, Serra Avenger was pretty awesome against merfolk, blocking almost all of their guys while still attacking. Trading Avenger for one of their lords isn't the worst. I just don't think it will happen all that much, given the commander is likely to be 4/4+. I'm not sure monoblue merfolk can really answer an avenger equipped with SoFi, but watch out for a bounce spell on your equipment.
I've found that Reejerey is the guy that needs to die, although them getting just too many lords is problematic. Tapping down our guys and then swinging in with their alpha strike is pretty bad - especially when they vial in the reejery at the end of your turn.
Just survive and try to resolve the Mangara lock or a piece of equipment. You have the better end game - an attrition war will end in your favor.
I'm sorry, but I can not get behind condemn. It's just so bad. It never saw play before, since you'll want to attack, and something dumb will be in the way (no connect = swords suck) and you can't condemn it. Blah blah air force, the deck is running fewer fliers these days, and they die to anything, especially in Zoo, where the skies rain fire. At least Wing Shards has a chance to take out multiple guys. Oust gets the guy out of the way... I guess. Being a sorcery is just so terrible. Still, I think I'd prefer it over condemn - maybe it will prevent the zoo player from getting the game winning burn spell, and will let you connect with SoLaS for the extra life plus raise dead on your finks. -shrugs-
I'm not sure why Kitchen Finks isn't being more widely accepted. I'd rather have my finks pathed than my grunt, and burning it is a losing proposition. It trades with everything in Zoo but Goyf (and Knight, if they run it). Lavamancer is problematic, but you still gain 4 life in the process.
I know it likely will end up hurting the curve quite a bit. But I ended up cutting 2 of my one drops dropping me down to 5 one drop creatures, and 11 one drop non-creatures (7 not counting the StP's) in order to run 2x Kitchen Finks main deck as I have found that the Zoo Match up is pretty abysmal without them. I also decided to run Basilisk Collar in place of the main decked Jitte as that seemingly helps in almost every aggro based match up. I do run the Jitte sideboarded though.
And in all honesty, putting the two finks in, I don't think will mess up the curve all that terribly. If anything it may smooth out the curve a little bit because in reality with this deck you really want the counters on the Vial on either 2 or 3, not on 1, and having that many one drops in your deck will make you more prone to having the vial on 1 longer in some match ups.
Wait wait wait... you swapped out a Umezawa's Jitte to help your aggro mu? One day, you are going to give me the big one.
Jitte is the definition of an anti-aggro card. Hell, it doesn't even need to be equipped to creature to do awesome stuff! Get that collar out of your deck and put that Jitte back where it should be.
Captshetz is still around, but he has less to say these days. Hey Captshetz, are you still playing?
I've been lurking. I've taken up tempo bant for the last few trials for GP Columbus (top 8, but no byes for me, yet). There is a lot of landstill around here, and I just don't feel comfortable with D&T in that matchup.
Stillmoon Cavalier might be good for landstill, since some versions bring in 8 stp effects, but like any creature based strategy, still dies to Humility. Various pieces of equipment are pretty awesome, though - although they all die to deed.
I dunno - the matchup is trrbl. No vowels trrbl. I realize resolving Aether Vial can make the matchup easier, but it still seems uphill.
I am also embarrassed to be considering Goldmeadow Harrier, but it still seems better in many more situations than Burrenton Forge-tender. Mother of Runes is much better at protecting my team, and dredge doesn't see that much play (although this could quickly change if people stop bringing in the reanimator hate).
I tried a version of this deck out at a local tournament, and the combo is nice, but dit is efinitely not needed for the win. Tombstalker is a bomb and can end games by itself (especially when people use all of their cards trying to stop the 20/20).
This deck is awkward because it wants to be control against aggro and aggro against control, without being really able to switch gears very easily.
If you are seriously concerned with price of progress, just use swords on one of your creatures, and wasteland on rishadan port. Also, gouge out your own eyes.
One card should not lead us to use seriously underpowered cards (ghost quarter). Especially since it will not do what this deck wants (mana disruption). Against zoo, they grab a basic that will continue to enable their creatures, so it will basically do nothing. Might as well just have another plains. Path to Exile counteracts the point of running wasteland and rishadan port. And in all seriousness, swords to plowshares targeting flickerwisp or grunt or whatever is a fine way to live through burn spells.
If I wanted to stick to mono White, are there any improvements that could be made?
This is the "normal" monowhite D&T build by now. I took this to a local tournament (although I run Tormod's Crypt over Relic in the SB) with about 17 people and took 2nd place (I tied TWICE unintentionally... eech), but I did manage to win vs ANT in round 5, since he misfired twice in a row. Woot. Hint to ANT players: keep track of your own storm count. I was keeping track, so he didn't bother - he ended up not paying close enough attention to the storm count, and only went off for 16 with me at 20, and LED discarded his ability to go off a second time.
Burrenton Forge-tender is definitely the most awkward card in the maindeck. Still, having a one drop that can hold equipment is fine, even if he is Eager Cadet in some matchups. He pulled his weight against Dredge in this tournament, but otherwise was completely useless.
I had the following MUs:
Round 1: White Tempo Thresh (draw)
1-1-1
He crushes me with big guys and counterspells game 1. I return the favor game 2 by resolving aethervial into mangara lock. Game 3 stalls out forever and we draw.
Round 2: Merfolk (win)
2-0
This MU is pretty good for us. I roll over him pretty easily. His only chance to get by Mother of Runes is Jitte or Mutavault, and I manage to get those exiled pretty easily.
Round 3: 43 Land (draw)
1-1-1
I concede part way through game 1 when he has triple maze of ith, tabernacle, and recurring engineered explosives. He couldn't win at that moment, but I wanted to try and get more time for more games.
Game 2 goes well when my opening hand has enlightened tutor, which I use to get crypt and I exile life from the loam. Triple wasteland later, and I've sealed the game.
Game 3 I run out of time, but I was in a good position to win the game if I had the chance. The MU vs 43 land improves with 4 grunt, crypt/relic and wheel of sun and moon.
Round 4: Dredge (win)
2-1
He comboed off game 1 before I got a grunt,or really anything.
Game 2 I snag his dredger with crypt. Later, BFT gets his bridges. Random guys finish him.
Game 3 goes similarly to game 2, but wastelands and mangara lock play a larger role.
Round 5: ANT
2-0
I beat him down to 13 with dudes before he is ready to go off. He tried and goes down to 2, but didn't find enough mana to do everything he needed to. My four power worth of guys kill him.
Game 2 he goes for it too early and can only storm for 8 (16 damage). LED discards IGGY (he admits later that the 2 Tendrils, 2 AdN version is better), so he can't go off a second time. Win!
It is also possible in game 2 that the ANT player lost concentration when the player next to him had a seizure in the middle of the game. :\
Supachai, white definitely has the tools to beat combo. Of this there is no doubt. A combination of Silence/Chant/Mindbreak Trap mixed with permanents Ethersworn Canonist/Runed Halo/Children of Korlis would be extremely effective. ANT just does not have enough tools to deal with instant disruption and permanents. The problem is that there is a sliding scale that determines how good those cards are against every other deck and how good they are against combo. So, like you pointed out, you simply can't have a good combo matchup in white and have cards that are pertinent against the rest of the field.
For awhile, D&T ran Ethersworn Canonist in the main. It worked well against combo, but it also hindered brainstorm decks rather effectively. Since blue's presence in the meta (or at least decks that want to cast multiple spells in one turn) seems to be going down, the canonist wasn't pulling its weight - hence the move to the SB. In some metas, MD canonist over something else (BFT, probably) might be justified.
Angel Stompy is an OLD deck, back when Goblins completely ruled Legacy. If the meta is completely aggro, Angel Stompy might be viable. In other metas, it isn't.
Speaking of Elves - this deck has almost no answer to elves main (like any other combo deck). Obviously Jitte is pretty awesome, and SoFi might just work, but it is still a pretty bad MU. They have to have the slowest draw ever and the worst Glimpse of Nature in the history of the universe for us to be able to out aggro them. If we can stall their aggro plan with Mother of Runes and Rishadan Port (wasteland is dead in this MU), while Vial powers our side, we can maybe either out aggro them with equipment or get Mangara online before they explode. Postboard, I side in storm hate (vialing in canonist in response to glimpse is pretty funny) and any aggro hate I have available (Wing Shards is fine in this MU and better than O-ring, given that they could have sb hate for it).
Teeg stops FOW and... nothing else. Congrats on your legendary bear. Merfolk can side out FOW against you anyway. If they can't stop the vial, it is worthless, and even if they do, none of your guys are worth forcing (ok, you run goyf, but as you noticed, they don't really fear that race).
I really don't see the need to sideboard at all vs the blue men, unless you are siding OUT your Teegs for Canonists (stops Reejery chain, and its nice to have an uncounterable swords to plowshares every now and again).
Congrats on winning packs. I like your list, even if I miss Karakas #4 (and how I want to cram more 3 casting cost guys into G/W D&T, but reason must prevail!).
Did you ever test Noble Hierarch?
Obv if you run Bob you have to cut Snuff Out.
Smite is terrible and has the same problems as condemn (only hitting attackers, and on top of that needs a blocker).
Maybe the "Sword of Mind and Growth" will have some help for us.
I guess I am not that familiar with the new aggro merfolk vs D&T matchup, since its been awhile since I've seen that match played out and the lists have changed a lot, but it usually came down to resolving vial and getting a mangara in play. Once that happens, they really have no outs. Of course, the ticket is living that long.
Sword of Fire and Ice or Umezawa's Jitte can break this match right open. I imagine resolving a Stoneforge Mystic allows you to completely take over, since she can "vial" in an equipment - too bad this is incredibly slow.
Prior to coralhelm commander, Serra Avenger was pretty awesome against merfolk, blocking almost all of their guys while still attacking. Trading Avenger for one of their lords isn't the worst. I just don't think it will happen all that much, given the commander is likely to be 4/4+. I'm not sure monoblue merfolk can really answer an avenger equipped with SoFi, but watch out for a bounce spell on your equipment.
I've found that Reejerey is the guy that needs to die, although them getting just too many lords is problematic. Tapping down our guys and then swinging in with their alpha strike is pretty bad - especially when they vial in the reejery at the end of your turn.
Just survive and try to resolve the Mangara lock or a piece of equipment. You have the better end game - an attrition war will end in your favor.
I'm not sure why Kitchen Finks isn't being more widely accepted. I'd rather have my finks pathed than my grunt, and burning it is a losing proposition. It trades with everything in Zoo but Goyf (and Knight, if they run it). Lavamancer is problematic, but you still gain 4 life in the process.
Wait wait wait... you swapped out a Umezawa's Jitte to help your aggro mu? One day, you are going to give me the big one.
Jitte is the definition of an anti-aggro card. Hell, it doesn't even need to be equipped to creature to do awesome stuff! Get that collar out of your deck and put that Jitte back where it should be.
^This.
I've been lurking. I've taken up tempo bant for the last few trials for GP Columbus (top 8, but no byes for me, yet). There is a lot of landstill around here, and I just don't feel comfortable with D&T in that matchup.
Stillmoon Cavalier might be good for landstill, since some versions bring in 8 stp effects, but like any creature based strategy, still dies to Humility. Various pieces of equipment are pretty awesome, though - although they all die to deed.
I dunno - the matchup is trrbl. No vowels trrbl. I realize resolving Aether Vial can make the matchup easier, but it still seems uphill.
I am also embarrassed to be considering Goldmeadow Harrier, but it still seems better in many more situations than Burrenton Forge-tender. Mother of Runes is much better at protecting my team, and dredge doesn't see that much play (although this could quickly change if people stop bringing in the reanimator hate).
This deck is awkward because it wants to be control against aggro and aggro against control, without being really able to switch gears very easily.
One card should not lead us to use seriously underpowered cards (ghost quarter). Especially since it will not do what this deck wants (mana disruption). Against zoo, they grab a basic that will continue to enable their creatures, so it will basically do nothing. Might as well just have another plains. Path to Exile counteracts the point of running wasteland and rishadan port. And in all seriousness, swords to plowshares targeting flickerwisp or grunt or whatever is a fine way to live through burn spells.
I've raced inkwell leviathan + empyrial archangel with d&t before, and that would be almost impossible without equipment and lands.
New Horizons should be discussed separately from Canadian Thresh, they are completely different.
This is the "normal" monowhite D&T build by now. I took this to a local tournament (although I run Tormod's Crypt over Relic in the SB) with about 17 people and took 2nd place (I tied TWICE unintentionally... eech), but I did manage to win vs ANT in round 5, since he misfired twice in a row. Woot. Hint to ANT players: keep track of your own storm count. I was keeping track, so he didn't bother - he ended up not paying close enough attention to the storm count, and only went off for 16 with me at 20, and LED discarded his ability to go off a second time.
Burrenton Forge-tender is definitely the most awkward card in the maindeck. Still, having a one drop that can hold equipment is fine, even if he is Eager Cadet in some matchups. He pulled his weight against Dredge in this tournament, but otherwise was completely useless.
I had the following MUs:
Round 1: White Tempo Thresh (draw)
1-1-1
He crushes me with big guys and counterspells game 1. I return the favor game 2 by resolving aethervial into mangara lock. Game 3 stalls out forever and we draw.
Round 2: Merfolk (win)
2-0
This MU is pretty good for us. I roll over him pretty easily. His only chance to get by Mother of Runes is Jitte or Mutavault, and I manage to get those exiled pretty easily.
Round 3: 43 Land (draw)
1-1-1
I concede part way through game 1 when he has triple maze of ith, tabernacle, and recurring engineered explosives. He couldn't win at that moment, but I wanted to try and get more time for more games.
Game 2 goes well when my opening hand has enlightened tutor, which I use to get crypt and I exile life from the loam. Triple wasteland later, and I've sealed the game.
Game 3 I run out of time, but I was in a good position to win the game if I had the chance. The MU vs 43 land improves with 4 grunt, crypt/relic and wheel of sun and moon.
Round 4: Dredge (win)
2-1
He comboed off game 1 before I got a grunt,or really anything.
Game 2 I snag his dredger with crypt. Later, BFT gets his bridges. Random guys finish him.
Game 3 goes similarly to game 2, but wastelands and mangara lock play a larger role.
Round 5: ANT
2-0
I beat him down to 13 with dudes before he is ready to go off. He tried and goes down to 2, but didn't find enough mana to do everything he needed to. My four power worth of guys kill him.
Game 2 he goes for it too early and can only storm for 8 (16 damage). LED discards IGGY (he admits later that the 2 Tendrils, 2 AdN version is better), so he can't go off a second time. Win!
It is also possible in game 2 that the ANT player lost concentration when the player next to him had a seizure in the middle of the game. :\
For awhile, D&T ran Ethersworn Canonist in the main. It worked well against combo, but it also hindered brainstorm decks rather effectively. Since blue's presence in the meta (or at least decks that want to cast multiple spells in one turn) seems to be going down, the canonist wasn't pulling its weight - hence the move to the SB. In some metas, MD canonist over something else (BFT, probably) might be justified.
Angel Stompy is an OLD deck, back when Goblins completely ruled Legacy. If the meta is completely aggro, Angel Stompy might be viable. In other metas, it isn't.
Flagstones also makes you more susceptible to Blood Moon and Price of Progress.
Speaking of Elves - this deck has almost no answer to elves main (like any other combo deck). Obviously Jitte is pretty awesome, and SoFi might just work, but it is still a pretty bad MU. They have to have the slowest draw ever and the worst Glimpse of Nature in the history of the universe for us to be able to out aggro them. If we can stall their aggro plan with Mother of Runes and Rishadan Port (wasteland is dead in this MU), while Vial powers our side, we can maybe either out aggro them with equipment or get Mangara online before they explode. Postboard, I side in storm hate (vialing in canonist in response to glimpse is pretty funny) and any aggro hate I have available (Wing Shards is fine in this MU and better than O-ring, given that they could have sb hate for it).