Personally I would keep the bannings to a minimum though unless they're super format warping. People like exciting Commanders and if you ban all the interesting ones, nobody is going to want to play by your rules. I'm of the opinion that with so very little information about how the format plays out and very little hard data from testing, no real ban is defensible at the moment. Maybe after hundreds of games are played, and a few tournaments have happened... then you probably have enough information to really make an informed choice for your particular rule set.
Actually no you really can't assume that since my statement holds true for online and offline play. Though incidentally I also I don't play Commander Online at all. It's entirely a format to play while I hang out with people. The any legend thing just means I can join any game of Commander people are playing. Otherwise I have to get special permission from them, and people aren't always into that especially if they aren't your normal playgroup. d0su's rules simply dodge that extra bit of bureaucratic red tape. I can adopt them, play them, enjoy them and if other people do or don’t follow suit it won’t stop me from being able to play matches.
You also say that your “ideology is to make the decks not able to completely be made around the commander” which currently your rules don’t even address. Case in point, I’m currently building Mistmeadow Witch for this format, this general is not illegal by your rules, and the deck is obviously built 90% around it (as I’m pretty certain everybody’s Mistmeadow Witch deck would be). On top of that it’s an awkward ideology to embrace because it severely limits your version of the format for no good reason, half the point of Commander is that your deck synergizes with your Commander.
You also state, “It also doesn't really make any sense to me to have to have it legal in regular commander too.” The counter to that is that having it not legal in regular Commander doesn’t really make sense either. No real argument has been presented for either side except that games are more readily available if your deck is legal in regular Commander (as mentioned earlier), which pretty much tips the balance in favor of regular Commander legality.
All these people fighting over Pauper Commander's "Unofficial Official" Rules... Haven't we been playing by d0su's Pauper rules for over a year? Aren't his rules basically just better since we can play them in regular Commander games as well?
Incidentally I'm keeping around a Paragon of the Amesha to act as my general in case I end up playing by the other rules. Not because I think it's particularly good/useful... Nah, I just like how Wizards said how they wanted to keep all Angels female... but the Paragon is clearly a dude, yet turns into an Angel. So armed with magical sex change powers I can claim he's unstoppable or something. Well okay mostly I just want a reason to have story time... I get bored easily.
Awkward stuff aside, I'm currently testing Grisly Salvage since my build is super graveyard centric.... And Midnight Guard plus Presence of Gond because I super like "Oops I win" moments.
Currently there are four sets of rules for Pauper Commander, the two threads here calling themselves “Unofficial Official”, the rules from http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/raging-levine-paupin-and-lockin/ and of course d0su’s rules from http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=303509 . Talk about a confusing format! Here’s the thing though people will argue flavor, bicker over rules, etc… But there is really one thing that’s indisputable about why d0su’s rules are better, at the end of the day when I can’t find anybody to play by whatever “unofficial official” Pauper rules, my deck using d0su’s rules is still legal in regular Commander. So I’ll never lack for a game.
That doesn’t mean I don’t find the concept of an uncommon commander interesting, or that I’m not trying to get people to try it out… I definitely am. I’ve just been convincing people to play by d0su’s rules for 16 months with a fair amount of success. And after discovering that the greatest selling point of d0su’s rules is that it’s a cheap way to get into regular Commander as well… I’m finding the uncommon general a rather tough sell at best. *shrugs*
Now this is a thread I haven't looked at in awhile, but really have been meaning to. I do still play the deck, but almost entirely for trolling purposes now. So many people, so very angry at the deck... *wipes a tear away* It's a thing of beauty.
I find myself reluctant to play this deck at times, not because it isn't fun or powerful, but because it takes soooooo daaaaarn looooong to actually kill anybody. This is my go-to deck of choice for 4-man EDH pods at side events or initial forays into unknown metagames, but while it has a great win record, even I grow tired of needing to amass 20 mana to actually go on the offensive. To that end, I think I will add Nideovinja's Krosan Restorer + Freed from the Real combo to the maindeck. Hopefully now I can put the nail in the coffin when everyone knows the game is already over, anyway.
Welcome to the dark side. To be honest, I actually win almost every group game via the combo now. Well unless they manage to remove a piece of it from the game. But the first time I play somebody it's almost a free win, nobody kills Krosan Restorer... mostly because it doesn't even rank on any body's threat scale. But even if they do know, a lot of times I just bleed everybody out of cards, and when they're on the ropes.... I drop that. By that point people rarely have anything left to fight it.
Depsite the fact Constant Mists is an uncommon, it brings up the fact that the "maybe board" is growing quite extensive at this point. What I would like to see is more mana-fixing nonbasics. It doesn't have to be anything too fancy, because when Rupture Spire makes the cut, it is hard to go wrong. If we had more of these, it would open up a slot by letting us cut a mana-fixing spell. If I add the Panoramas, do you think I could cut Prophetic Prism? And do I add all the Panoramas, or just the handful based around our main colors (meaning I exclude Naya Panorama)?
I switched to the Panoramas ages ago, and haven't looked back. Prism is a fine card but it got the boot some time ago in my version, mostly because space in the deck is at such a premium as you well know.
Anyway, I'm off to a draft... I'll toss up my current deck list, and explanations afterwards. I've even got a new secret weapon in my continuing mission to troll the top tier decks.
So what have I found? Well the biggest hay maker added to the deck is undoubtedly Last Rites. Mostly I was seeking a way to interact faster with the more broken of decks, and if there is one thing I've discovered about this deck it's that it recovers very quickly given it's host of incremental card advantage, also our general being pound for pound better than most of the others doesn't hurt either. Add that to the fact that most people's cards will be inherently more powerful than ours (since they get to play with all rarities) and I'm often okay pitching all but a tutor or engine card from my hand to Coercion them 5-6 times. Realistically speaking though, 3 cards of your choice from their hand is often enough to render it useless. Obviously in group games, this card requires timing to be good... so it plays a lot like Mind Extraction number 2 in the deck. But in 1v1 games versus broken decks (which I happily play against) or just against any deck really... it has the added fun of creating turn 3 concessions. Turn 3 Eat your 4-5 best cards... Turn 5 play Child... Good luck recovering.
Also on a different note for those not running Faithless Looting, or Forbidden Alchemy, especially those running the Krosan Restorer combo... Put them in, trust me you won't be disappointed. Beyond that I'll happily explain any of my card choices if people are interested.
You've obviously NEVER seen a hard cast Emmy coming your way on turn 4. Boring game much?
-K
Actually I have quite a few times, typically from Azusa or of course from Emrakul's own deck. Admittedly if somebody can produce 15 mana, chances are their whole deck is a combo and I'm just dead (admittedly they were nice enough to not kill me on turn 3 with it) though I usually take great pains to interact with them long before that since the first 3 turns are crucial in EDH.
But let's assume one does land... If I'm piloting Arcum, I use an activation to Spine of Ish Sah it, not a problem since Arcum usually lands on turns 2-3. If I'm playing Ad Nauseam.dec there is no turn 4, they died on turn 3 unless they were unlucky in which case turns 1 or 2. Skithyrix (or other assorted mono black generals) have an army of edict effects, and tutors to get them, so Emmy does nothing. V Clique at least my build runs stuff like Curfew, because people like Thrun, and tutors to get it though one wonders why I didn't just play Clique if I suspected they're the kind of deck with Emmy, as that's what usually happens. Oona and other machine style artifact decks have a kill window of turns 2-4... so if your master plan is Emmy on turn 4, I guess you just hope to god you went first, and their hand sucked. B/G (Nath currently) tokens has a combo kill window window of turns 4-5, though often generates so many tokens, that an Emmy hit means they still have enough to combo you out on the next turn. Turn 2 concessions do happen in 1v1 though if it has the turn 2 Natural Order Terastodon though, providing you don't already have a massive board presence, which does happen. G/W (Rhys) Tokens has a kill window of turns 3-5, but again is a token deck.. so even if it doesn't win, it usually has so many permanents that an Emmy hit won't stop them.
Really the list goes on, and on... Also you make the assumption that people are going to just let you amass those kinds of resources. With people winning so quickly, as you can imagine we're all packing a lot of disruption to force through combos, or if the opponent is ahead to slow them down. Do you use artifacts to get him? Null Rod is very common. Azusa? We've also got assorted counters, bounce and the occasional kill spell (though in EDH kill spells actually are rarely good enough outside of Mono Black)... Creature based mana combos like in Rhys? Very susceptible to kill/counters/bounce... I mean when everybody is gunning for you that fast, they only often need to stop you for a turn.
*shrugs* We play a lot of high powered EDH, and while I imagine a turn 4 hard casted Emrakul is good in a low power group... In ours if that's your only plan, you've lost. But that's just in 1v1... since it's for some awkward reason on the multiplayer ban list, let's talk about how little it even does successfully killing hurting one player out of say 2 with these insane decks, it's like picking which of your opponents doesn't win the game, since the other will just kill you. How about with 3 opponents? Maybe 4?
In the world of "the lovechild of Vintage and traditional Highlander", I actually have you right where I want you if turn 4 Emmy is your plan. Honestly, a much scarier example would be if I went island, mana crypt, Show & Tell Emmy... believe it or not, turn 1 not hard casted Emmy is a whole lot better than turn 4 hard casted Emmy... Though few people use examples like that as a reason to ban it (though they probably should). Honestly I am actually more afraid of City of Traitors (Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt), Lotus Petal (Mox Diamond), Dark Ritual Ad Nauseam... because then I'm just dead. And on that day, I hearken back to the days of Hulk Flash in Vintage... letting my opponent draw their hand, asking if I just lose (I was playing Mud Aggro, which has no Force of Wills), and if I didn't, I'd draw my hand, and lock them out of the game. *wipes a tear away* It's beautiful! Well okay thankfully turn 1 wins don't happen that often in our group (and if they did, I wouldn't post the lists, since I wouldn't want those cards banned).
I feel like Coalition Victory could also be unbanned, once players realize that they need to keep the 5-color general off of its colors through -collective gasp- land destruction. Sway is like Shahrazad: interesting once or twice, but it gets more annoying the more I see it.
In the case of Coalition Victory, I would happily let them get all their lands... sure, and let them cast their 5 color general, sure... and let them put Coalition Victory on the stack.... then bounce/kill their general in response and laugh at them. Or just Mana Drain it and win.... but let's be real here, when a combo deck casts Mana Drain, it's probably winning next turn anyway.
As for Sway, is a card being "annoying" enough of a reason to ban it? Seems to me a card should be broken for it to be banned.
I really don't see a point in playing with the French Ban List, I mean first of all it looks like it ate the official list and all it's nonsensical bans including....
Coalition Victory
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Sway of the Stars
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
...to name a handful, which aren't even good enough for group games, let alone 1v1. I hope my opponent plays with these. So it's actually just no better than the official one, since it feels less like careful thought was taken towards why cards were banned, and more like it was just made to fuse a bunch of lists together.
But to be fair I obviously just implied I thought the official list was silly too. So what separates the two? Why use the official for 1v1 and group? Simple really, everybody I have ever met uses the official one. I've never even had someone suggest using the French list. So why in the world would I build a deck with a banned list in mind that nobody uses?
Also a lot of people seem to have this mistaken impression that "the lovechild of Vintage and traditional Highlander" (I like this quote) is somehow a bad thing. But if everybody builds assuming that it really is a super powered format, and includes answers to fight a format like that... it's actually quite a demanding and entertaining format. Sure games are unlikely to go past turn 5... but just like in Legacy and Vintage... those turns will not be devoid of decisions, or interactions.
You didn't by any chance end up moving the Portland area (where I am now) or Northern California (where I'll be in a month)? If so I can suggest some EDH groups, if not er.. well, yeah not so much.
Also as for Skred, I'd say just count the number of basics you have in play at any time you'd want to kill something. You'd be amazed how much Skred does to creatures. I mean just check out my current list,
(Pardon Cockatrice's horrible sorting when copying the to clipboard)
I'm pretty spread out between basics/non basics as well at the moment with sort of a conglomeration of yours and LittlestMorte's manabases... Yet even if I drop child on turn 5, by then it already does 3-5 damage most of the time, it really doesn't take many lands to be good, late game it will often clock things for 15+ damage, if only it hit players.
Also my meta has shifted towards a lot of graveyard recursion, and token crap.... so if you're wondering why Swirling Sandstorm is in there as well as Crypt Rats... to answer the tokens. Also we've actually got a minor pauper EDH meta going as well, and since Dralnu, Lich Lord (who is a very obnoxious Pauper General might I add) is seeing play... it's twice the funny against that as well. Kill your board, except Dralnu... now sac 5 permanents... Good times. Still obviously a meta dependent choice.
I've also included Reap And Sow as my anti graveyard card since I cut Trinket Mage ages ago and with graveyard recursion on the rise I figured an extra slot to hose them would be nice. Obviously I fish out Bojuka Bog with it, and if I feel like kicking it I can also destroy Volrath's Stronghold or Academy Ruins as well. On top of that it can even act as a mana fixer if I really need one.
As for the whole Moriok Replica thing, I find the Rush of Knowledge chain loads my hand so much, I just never want to recur the Replica. Though with all this discussion of Reclaim, I think I'll try it in the slot. At the very least it sounds interesting.
About Dizzy Spell:
The thing about Dizzy Spell is that there are very few 1cc cards I'd want to spend 1UU getting. That's really the only reason I've never added it, though I keep looking sideways at it as I toss in more 1cc stuff like Skred.
About Impaler Shrike:
As for Impaler.... yeah, I didn't think it would be great, I just like to try out things because you never know, and otherwise the deck gets boring. That being said, Moriok Replica has been on the chopping block for awhile... he's just well, not very good. So if anything, I'll likely just ditch both and free up the slot for a real card.
About Overrule:
As for Overrule, yeah I've been testing it every since d0su mentioned it. Biggest problem is... it really only seems to be gaining me life, when I've already stabilized in the late game... at which point I don't need it. But early game it just costs too much, people in my play group tend to develop their manabases too much for it reliably counter things, or it gains so little life... that it was pretty inconsequential. At least that's what I've found.
About Reclaim:
Really if you're going to consider Reclaim, wouldn't Elven Cache be better? I mean sure if you need to recur something incredibly early, you probably won't have the mana to play Cache and use the spell you get... but the rest of the time you get the card immediately instead of having to wait a turn, or engineer a card draw.
Personally I've been running it for awhile to recur combo pieces (enchantments specifically), and I find it's versatility quite useful. That being said, I might also stuff Reclaim in the deck, though obviously not over Cache.
Changes I've made recently:
I've switched the basics in the deck for their snow counterparts so that I can run Skred which pretty much reads one red, instant, kill target creature.
Also I've traded out Diabolic Edict for Pyroblast. The reason being that I only ever seem to use Edict on myself to kill Child, where in group games it really doesn't do anything else besides trade with their worst guy. At least Pyroblast has the option of dealing with the most obnoxious (and best color) in EDH. Obviously I'm already running Red Elemental Blast.
Also while it hasn't really come up yet in games (since I already seem to draw more cards than I can ever use), I'm running Impaler Shrike over Moriok Replica... I figure I'd prefer not to pay life to draw cards in the deck, especially given stuff like Crypt Rats to think of (or the overwhelming ball of hate people are starting to develop for this deck in one of my metas). Potentially you net more cards off an activation, it can even act as a better finisher than Replica, and doesn't require the life. However it's drawbacks are that it's more blue intensive (not really a problem), and of course you must hit somebody to get your cards... so it requires a turn. Still figured I'd give it a try... Also as a bonus, Clique players have to counter it since it blocks Clique and irritating them is often a good extra reason to run stuff (looks at Skred, Pyroblast, and Red Elemental Blast).
Second is that I replaced the Cycling lands with more basics. The ability to use Cultivate to get a red or white source after your first two have been blown up is very important in my eyes. It also makes Far Wanderings much better late game, able to ramp me even more.
I've been up in the air on the Cycling lands for awhile, I move them in and out of the deck. At the best of times, they net me a couple cards mid/late game.... At the worst of times, they pollute my opening hand setting me back turns. Mostly whether or not I play them depends on the value of Tilling Treefolk, lately my meta has been full of LD so he's back in... If they run less, I'll probably cut him again, along with his buddy buddy cycle lands.
This deck has a very hard time against Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. He blows up a land when they cast him and is nigh unkillable.
I switched out Terminate for Unmake in order to deal with him, and Unmake is easier to transmute for.
My current plan against Ulamog is counter/bounce/Freed from the Reel (though I'd prefer to not use that on him). Still I've been eying Unmake as well though my biggest problem with it has been that it can't be used to kill Child. Which I kind of prefer all my kill spells be able to do.
Rolling Thunder's double red mana cost is just too prohibitive. Once people see that you plan on recurring it to win, they attack your mountains with a vengeance. I only used it as a Blaze, really, so for now it is being replaced with good, old Fireball.
The thing about Rolling Thunder is that we've got potentially two Transmute cards at 2cc, so it's a lot easier to get over Fireball. Then again I run more red than everybody else I think, so double red isn't a problem, also I like to transmute for it for the combo kill. Still I could see if you run less cutting it to just Fireball, not like we don't draw an army of cards already to find it.
This suffers from the fact that we're just not running that many red cards. I've got 6 in my current list. So the likelihood that I'd be able to do it for even two is pretty bad. Crypt Rats pretty much has it beat, and even that's on the chopping block more often than not for me, sometimes becoming Swirling Sandstorm.... and sometimes just leaving the deck entirely. Currently it's been slotted out for a Fireball, which I'm liking a lot better.
Seeing as how I'm looking to all too often kill my own general, and how he blows it up... Can't say this is exciting. And he practically reads unblockable anyway, I mean not only does Child sport trample... but if they kill it, it wipes their board, and then comes right back.
While I can't speak for d0su, I cut Trinket Mage for taking up space (Pauper really needs better 0 and 1 cost artifacts). And don't want any removal that can't kill my own child... who is immune to Capsule.
Realistically, Child itself kills in 4 hits if they can't answer it, since the whole point of the deck is to return it over and over... even if they can, it usually gets them eventually. Going to be tough finding a finisher that's that efficient. Otherwise I personally use the Krosan Restorer/Freed from the Reel infinite, and recurring Fireball/Rolling Thunder.
Since I've got a very unorthodox Nath deck (my usual group game deck, which I've been meaning to post), Arcum (my tournament winning deck), my "Spirit of EDH" (which has easily earned more ire than all the others combined...), Sen Triplets, Skithrix, V Clique (yeah I'm a jerk like that), this deck, and a Riku deck I'm currently working on... People just haven't had enough chances to be annoyed by this deck.... yet, and with a lineup like that, most of them are actually happy to see Child show up.
They must just have it listed incorrectly, Gatherer lists it as a common...
http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2951
Personally I would keep the bannings to a minimum though unless they're super format warping. People like exciting Commanders and if you ban all the interesting ones, nobody is going to want to play by your rules. I'm of the opinion that with so very little information about how the format plays out and very little hard data from testing, no real ban is defensible at the moment. Maybe after hundreds of games are played, and a few tournaments have happened... then you probably have enough information to really make an informed choice for your particular rule set.
You also say that your “ideology is to make the decks not able to completely be made around the commander” which currently your rules don’t even address. Case in point, I’m currently building Mistmeadow Witch for this format, this general is not illegal by your rules, and the deck is obviously built 90% around it (as I’m pretty certain everybody’s Mistmeadow Witch deck would be). On top of that it’s an awkward ideology to embrace because it severely limits your version of the format for no good reason, half the point of Commander is that your deck synergizes with your Commander.
You also state, “It also doesn't really make any sense to me to have to have it legal in regular commander too.” The counter to that is that having it not legal in regular Commander doesn’t really make sense either. No real argument has been presented for either side except that games are more readily available if your deck is legal in regular Commander (as mentioned earlier), which pretty much tips the balance in favor of regular Commander legality.
Incidentally I'm keeping around a Paragon of the Amesha to act as my general in case I end up playing by the other rules. Not because I think it's particularly good/useful... Nah, I just like how Wizards said how they wanted to keep all Angels female... but the Paragon is clearly a dude, yet turns into an Angel. So armed with magical sex change powers I can claim he's unstoppable or something. Well okay mostly I just want a reason to have story time... I get bored easily.
Awkward stuff aside, I'm currently testing Grisly Salvage since my build is super graveyard centric.... And Midnight Guard plus Presence of Gond because I super like "Oops I win" moments.
That doesn’t mean I don’t find the concept of an uncommon commander interesting, or that I’m not trying to get people to try it out… I definitely am. I’ve just been convincing people to play by d0su’s rules for 16 months with a fair amount of success. And after discovering that the greatest selling point of d0su’s rules is that it’s a cheap way to get into regular Commander as well… I’m finding the uncommon general a rather tough sell at best. *shrugs*
Welcome to the dark side. To be honest, I actually win almost every group game via the combo now. Well unless they manage to remove a piece of it from the game. But the first time I play somebody it's almost a free win, nobody kills Krosan Restorer... mostly because it doesn't even rank on any body's threat scale. But even if they do know, a lot of times I just bleed everybody out of cards, and when they're on the ropes.... I drop that. By that point people rarely have anything left to fight it.
I switched to the Panoramas ages ago, and haven't looked back. Prism is a fine card but it got the boot some time ago in my version, mostly because space in the deck is at such a premium as you well know.
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Anyway, I'm off to a draft... I'll toss up my current deck list, and explanations afterwards. I've even got a new secret weapon in my continuing mission to troll the top tier decks.
Edit:
1 Freed from the Real
Artifacts
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Darksteel Ingot
Creatures
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Gravedigger
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Mulldrifter
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Krosan Restorer
1 Qasali Pridemage
Sorceries
1 Last Rites
1 Faithless Looting
1 Hull Breach
1 Cultivate
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Deep Analysis
1 Rampant Growth
1 Far Wanderings
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Rush of Knowledge
1 Reap and Sow
1 Elven Cache
1 Brainspoil
1 Mind Extraction
1 Negate
1 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Evolution Charm
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Death Denied
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Deprive
1 Shred Memory
1 Capsize
1 Counterspell
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Terminate
1 Perplex
1 Skred
1 Preordain
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Brainstorm
1 Arcane Denial
1 Rend Flesh
Lands
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Bant Panorama
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Remote Isle
1 Slippery Karst
1 Naya Panorama
1 Polluted Mire
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Jund Panorama
1 Rupture Spire
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Shimmering Grotto
1 Esper Panorama
7 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Snow-Covered Plains
7 Snow-Covered Island
5 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Tilling Treefolk
1 Child of Alara
So what have I found? Well the biggest hay maker added to the deck is undoubtedly Last Rites. Mostly I was seeking a way to interact faster with the more broken of decks, and if there is one thing I've discovered about this deck it's that it recovers very quickly given it's host of incremental card advantage, also our general being pound for pound better than most of the others doesn't hurt either. Add that to the fact that most people's cards will be inherently more powerful than ours (since they get to play with all rarities) and I'm often okay pitching all but a tutor or engine card from my hand to Coercion them 5-6 times. Realistically speaking though, 3 cards of your choice from their hand is often enough to render it useless. Obviously in group games, this card requires timing to be good... so it plays a lot like Mind Extraction number 2 in the deck. But in 1v1 games versus broken decks (which I happily play against) or just against any deck really... it has the added fun of creating turn 3 concessions.
Also on a different note for those not running Faithless Looting, or Forbidden Alchemy, especially those running the Krosan Restorer combo... Put them in, trust me you won't be disappointed. Beyond that I'll happily explain any of my card choices if people are interested.
Actually I have quite a few times, typically from Azusa or of course from Emrakul's own deck. Admittedly if somebody can produce 15 mana, chances are their whole deck is a combo and I'm just dead (admittedly they were nice enough to not kill me on turn 3 with it) though I usually take great pains to interact with them long before that since the first 3 turns are crucial in EDH.
But let's assume one does land... If I'm piloting Arcum, I use an activation to Spine of Ish Sah it, not a problem since Arcum usually lands on turns 2-3. If I'm playing Ad Nauseam.dec there is no turn 4, they died on turn 3 unless they were unlucky in which case turns 1 or 2. Skithyrix (or other assorted mono black generals) have an army of edict effects, and tutors to get them, so Emmy does nothing. V Clique at least my build runs stuff like Curfew, because people like Thrun, and tutors to get it though one wonders why I didn't just play Clique if I suspected they're the kind of deck with Emmy, as that's what usually happens. Oona and other machine style artifact decks have a kill window of turns 2-4... so if your master plan is Emmy on turn 4, I guess you just hope to god you went first, and their hand sucked. B/G (Nath currently) tokens has a combo kill window window of turns 4-5, though often generates so many tokens, that an Emmy hit means they still have enough to combo you out on the next turn. Turn 2 concessions do happen in 1v1 though if it has the turn 2 Natural Order Terastodon though, providing you don't already have a massive board presence, which does happen. G/W (Rhys) Tokens has a kill window of turns 3-5, but again is a token deck.. so even if it doesn't win, it usually has so many permanents that an Emmy hit won't stop them.
Really the list goes on, and on... Also you make the assumption that people are going to just let you amass those kinds of resources. With people winning so quickly, as you can imagine we're all packing a lot of disruption to force through combos, or if the opponent is ahead to slow them down. Do you use artifacts to get him? Null Rod is very common. Azusa? We've also got assorted counters, bounce and the occasional kill spell (though in EDH kill spells actually are rarely good enough outside of Mono Black)... Creature based mana combos like in Rhys? Very susceptible to kill/counters/bounce... I mean when everybody is gunning for you that fast, they only often need to stop you for a turn.
*shrugs* We play a lot of high powered EDH, and while I imagine a turn 4 hard casted Emrakul is good in a low power group... In ours if that's your only plan, you've lost. But that's just in 1v1... since it's for some awkward reason on the multiplayer ban list, let's talk about how little it even does successfully
killinghurting one player out of say 2 with these insane decks, it's like picking which of your opponents doesn't win the game, since the other will just kill you. How about with 3 opponents? Maybe 4?In the world of "the lovechild of Vintage and traditional Highlander", I actually have you right where I want you if turn 4 Emmy is your plan. Honestly, a much scarier example would be if I went island, mana crypt, Show & Tell Emmy... believe it or not, turn 1 not hard casted Emmy is a whole lot better than turn 4 hard casted Emmy...
In the case of Coalition Victory, I would happily let them get all their lands... sure, and let them cast their 5 color general, sure... and let them put Coalition Victory on the stack.... then bounce/kill their general in response and laugh at them.
As for Sway, is a card being "annoying" enough of a reason to ban it? Seems to me a card should be broken for it to be banned.
Coalition Victory
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Sway of the Stars
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
...to name a handful, which aren't even good enough for group games, let alone 1v1. I hope my opponent plays with these. So it's actually just no better than the official one, since it feels less like careful thought was taken towards why cards were banned, and more like it was just made to fuse a bunch of lists together.
But to be fair I obviously just implied I thought the official list was silly too. So what separates the two? Why use the official for 1v1 and group? Simple really, everybody I have ever met uses the official one. I've never even had someone suggest using the French list. So why in the world would I build a deck with a banned list in mind that nobody uses?
Also a lot of people seem to have this mistaken impression that "the lovechild of Vintage and traditional Highlander" (I like this quote) is somehow a bad thing. But if everybody builds assuming that it really is a super powered format, and includes answers to fight a format like that... it's actually quite a demanding and entertaining format. Sure games are unlikely to go past turn 5... but just like in Legacy and Vintage... those turns will not be devoid of decisions, or interactions.
Also as for Skred, I'd say just count the number of basics you have in play at any time you'd want to kill something. You'd be amazed how much Skred does to creatures. I mean just check out my current list,
(Pardon Cockatrice's horrible sorting when copying the to clipboard)
1 Far Wanderings
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Capsize
1 Perplex
1 Slippery Karst
1 Elven Cache
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Krosan Restorer
1 Cultivate
1 Polluted Mire
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Skred
1 Rush of Knowledge
1 Brainspoil
1 Freed from the Real
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Evolution Charm
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Shimmering Grotto
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Impaler Shrike
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Arcane Denial
1 Naya Panorama
1 Tilling Treefolk
1 Rupture Spire
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Swirling Sandstorm
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Mind Extraction
1 Terminate
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Condescend
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Command Tower
1 Overrule
1 Momentary Blink
1 Gravedigger
1 Jund Panorama
1 Reap and Sow
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Mulldrifter
1 Barren Moor
1 Pyroblast
1 Bant Panorama
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Remote Isle
1 Death Denied
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rend Flesh
1 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Shred Memory
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Deep Analysis
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Rampant Growth
1 Crypt Rats
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Esper Panorama
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
7 Snow-Covered Forest
5 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
7 Snow-Covered Island
I'm pretty spread out between basics/non basics as well at the moment with sort of a conglomeration of yours and LittlestMorte's manabases... Yet even if I drop child on turn 5, by then it already does 3-5 damage most of the time, it really doesn't take many lands to be good, late game it will often clock things for 15+ damage, if only it hit players.
Also my meta has shifted towards a lot of graveyard recursion, and token crap.... so if you're wondering why Swirling Sandstorm is in there as well as Crypt Rats... to answer the tokens. Also we've actually got a minor pauper EDH meta going as well, and since Dralnu, Lich Lord (who is a very obnoxious Pauper General might I add) is seeing play... it's twice the funny against that as well. Kill your board, except Dralnu... now sac 5 permanents... Good times. Still obviously a meta dependent choice.
I've also included Reap And Sow as my anti graveyard card since I cut Trinket Mage ages ago and with graveyard recursion on the rise I figured an extra slot to hose them would be nice. Obviously I fish out Bojuka Bog with it, and if I feel like kicking it I can also destroy Volrath's Stronghold or Academy Ruins as well. On top of that it can even act as a mana fixer if I really need one.
As for the whole Moriok Replica thing, I find the Rush of Knowledge chain loads my hand so much, I just never want to recur the Replica. Though with all this discussion of Reclaim, I think I'll try it in the slot. At the very least it sounds interesting.
The thing about Dizzy Spell is that there are very few 1cc cards I'd want to spend 1UU getting. That's really the only reason I've never added it, though I keep looking sideways at it as I toss in more 1cc stuff like Skred.
About Impaler Shrike:
As for Impaler.... yeah, I didn't think it would be great, I just like to try out things because you never know, and otherwise the deck gets boring. That being said, Moriok Replica has been on the chopping block for awhile... he's just well, not very good. So if anything, I'll likely just ditch both and free up the slot for a real card.
About Overrule:
As for Overrule, yeah I've been testing it every since d0su mentioned it. Biggest problem is... it really only seems to be gaining me life, when I've already stabilized in the late game... at which point I don't need it. But early game it just costs too much, people in my play group tend to develop their manabases too much for it reliably counter things, or it gains so little life... that it was pretty inconsequential. At least that's what I've found.
Really if you're going to consider Reclaim, wouldn't Elven Cache be better? I mean sure if you need to recur something incredibly early, you probably won't have the mana to play Cache and use the spell you get... but the rest of the time you get the card immediately instead of having to wait a turn, or engineer a card draw.
Personally I've been running it for awhile to recur combo pieces (enchantments specifically), and I find it's versatility quite useful. That being said, I might also stuff Reclaim in the deck, though obviously not over Cache.
Changes I've made recently:
I've switched the basics in the deck for their snow counterparts so that I can run Skred which pretty much reads one red, instant, kill target creature.
Also I've traded out Diabolic Edict for Pyroblast. The reason being that I only ever seem to use Edict on myself to kill Child, where in group games it really doesn't do anything else besides trade with their worst guy. At least Pyroblast has the option of dealing with the most obnoxious (and best color) in EDH. Obviously I'm already running Red Elemental Blast.
Also while it hasn't really come up yet in games (since I already seem to draw more cards than I can ever use), I'm running Impaler Shrike over Moriok Replica... I figure I'd prefer not to pay life to draw cards in the deck, especially given stuff like Crypt Rats to think of (or the overwhelming ball of hate people are starting to develop for this deck in one of my metas). Potentially you net more cards off an activation, it can even act as a better finisher than Replica, and doesn't require the life. However it's drawbacks are that it's more blue intensive (not really a problem), and of course you must hit somebody to get your cards... so it requires a turn. Still figured I'd give it a try... Also as a bonus, Clique players have to counter it since it blocks Clique and irritating them is often a good extra reason to run stuff (looks at Skred, Pyroblast, and Red Elemental Blast).
I've been up in the air on the Cycling lands for awhile, I move them in and out of the deck. At the best of times, they net me a couple cards mid/late game.... At the worst of times, they pollute my opening hand setting me back turns. Mostly whether or not I play them depends on the value of Tilling Treefolk, lately my meta has been full of LD so he's back in... If they run less, I'll probably cut him again, along with his buddy buddy cycle lands.
My current plan against Ulamog is counter/bounce/Freed from the Reel (though I'd prefer to not use that on him). Still I've been eying Unmake as well though my biggest problem with it has been that it can't be used to kill Child. Which I kind of prefer all my kill spells be able to do.
The thing about Rolling Thunder is that we've got potentially two Transmute cards at 2cc, so it's a lot easier to get over Fireball. Then again I run more red than everybody else I think, so double red isn't a problem, also I like to transmute for it for the combo kill. Still I could see if you run less cutting it to just Fireball, not like we don't draw an army of cards already to find it.
Amnesia, Dismal Failure, Mindculling, Piracy Charm, Venarian Glimmer and Wistful Thinking
This suffers from the fact that we're just not running that many red cards. I've got 6 in my current list. So the likelihood that I'd be able to do it for even two is pretty bad. Crypt Rats pretty much has it beat, and even that's on the chopping block more often than not for me, sometimes becoming Swirling Sandstorm.... and sometimes just leaving the deck entirely. Currently it's been slotted out for a Fireball, which I'm liking a lot better.
Seeing as how I'm looking to all too often kill my own general, and how he blows it up... Can't say this is exciting. And he practically reads unblockable anyway, I mean not only does Child sport trample... but if they kill it, it wipes their board, and then comes right back.
While I can't speak for d0su, I cut Trinket Mage for taking up space (Pauper really needs better 0 and 1 cost artifacts). And don't want any removal that can't kill my own child... who is immune to Capsule.
Unfortunately it doesn't for long as the first time Child dies, it dies as well.
Realistically, Child itself kills in 4 hits if they can't answer it, since the whole point of the deck is to return it over and over... even if they can, it usually gets them eventually. Going to be tough finding a finisher that's that efficient. Otherwise I personally use the Krosan Restorer/Freed from the Reel infinite, and recurring Fireball/Rolling Thunder.