So having 0 Non basic lands in the deck seems like it could hurt. Path gets play. Might make sense to float one or 2 as it protects from path, wastelands, and back to basics.
I also believe that the leyline count might just be a touch low. Recognizing that the ones that are left over are not even that great, a single extra leyline like anticipation or punishment might work just to bring up the threat count while not having completely irrelevant abilities.
For me its all about speed. Lotus Cobra's mana ramp is WAY to situational for me, while SOV still provides mana everyturn if im mana screwed. KOTR is good if you have fetchlands, but then you depend on them. If you have no fetchlands, which is very possible, or even only one fetch land when you play him, a lightning bolt kills it. With Wilt-leaf, you have a 4 toughness, 3mana dude with vigilance. KOTR has better potentional but Cavaliers is just faster.
How is the cobras mana situational? Your going to play land, your going to build your deck to do so as well. Cobras mana is LESS situational that SOV, because you can get mana before or after attacking with the cobra. The steward has to give mana after if he wants to attack.
If your so worried about being mana screwed then perhaps you need to play more land anyways. if you run fetches and KOTR and lotus cobra you can thin the excess later on and fix earlier, all without preventing you from ever hitting that green mana turn one.
I understand why you would want steward of valeron and wilt-leaf together, and why you would run KOTR and Lotus cobra together, and not mix and match them. You lose the synergy. That I get. Why you would ever think that KORT is slow is beyond me. It's one of the most deadly creatures in the game short of Goyf. It's potential is astronomical, and I have had many a game where it hit the table at 4/4 on turn 2.
KOTR isn't at its best unless you build your mana base around it (fetches, etb lands) but if you do it's always the star of the deck. If you build your base around it, it makes the cobra that much better. If your using wilt leaf over this just because of oncoming goblin guides and ramgangs, my opinion is your not playing the deck right as those creatures should not be an issue if you put a monster kotr out early on.
Dauntless escort is LIGHTYEARS ahead of shield, which requires perfect timing your not always afforded to play it so that it cant just be killed while the aura is on the stack. preventing 2 for ones it does not. Hell totem armor would be better in a lot of situations than this.
Little idea I had. Boros has been my favorite deck in standard for a while now, and with good reason.
It has the natural speed of RDWs without the weakness to things like firewalker.
It can actually be faster than RDWs
Rangers provide steam to the deck where a RDW may have fizzled out by then.
So i got to thinking, one of the things my boros builds are a bit weak against is a 3rd or 4th turn DOJ. UW control is really trying to push boros to the long game where they will eventually win with all of their recovery tools, so Boros has to beat them faster than they can recover. I like jinxed idol for this.
You can sac a bushwhacker after getting its benefit for long term damage.
Sac a dude in response to DOJ
Sac a dude who was blocked by a baneslayer to prevent lifegain
It can prevent jace from ever going off
The decks where you need a long term damager against usually dont run too many creature.
Can make them sac a shroud creature like the Sphynx
I felt like this and Fling both served the same roles, but while fling is a one time shot the in the pants that can potentially do a lot of damage, Idol is a consistent damager for the long game. Add into this the fact that if you play a leyline of scanty, you cant be given your idol back (leyline has other advantages as well)
Heres the core of the decks options so far, would love opinions on how people think this would turn into a viable deck.
So theoretically if he blocked with another creature, let's say its a 5/5 lifelink without first strike, would the First strike damage from the geopede hit my opponent, and then i could fling the same geopede at the life linker to prevent the gain of life, or perhaps kill my opponent before that lifegain would matter, during the normal damage phase?
I attack my opponent with a 4/5 steppe lynx and a 5/5 first strike Geopede. He declares that he is blocking the steppe lynx with a baneslayer. Does my Geopede deal damage to my opponent during first strike damage phase, allowing me to Fling it during the regular combat step at my opponents blocking baneslayer to not only prevent the death of the lynx but to prevent the 5 point lifelink?
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- Woapalanne
I think that the main deck should run karakas. Even though your not all too vulnerable to Iona because of your leylines, there is no harm in having an extra piece of protection that is in your color.
Tabernacle at pendrel veil perhaps? your creatures wont be creatures until you win, and even if they are one seras sanctum fixes that.
Primeval Titan can easily be a turn 3 drop in this deck, which can secure you all the mana you need for a turn 4 Eldrazi titan, or just smash face on it's own. There is enough big stuff that you will often get something with the summoning trap (well you'll always get something, the odds of not even seeing an elf are low)
Jace 1 is perfectly playable, and has some benefits over Jace 2 (runeflare trap for instance). I don't know why everyone ever even though Jace 2 would be in the set anyways. As a matter of fact I don't think he will be in M12 either, because maybe standard will need a break from him. Even super extended may not want him for more than 4 years.
My guess is that the base 5 walkers will be with us for some time, they just need to make sure that Chandra and Liliana as is are competitive based around what other cards they can be run with, which in honesty wouldn't be all that hard with some careful design work.
While Ajani V is good, this really doesn't seem worth it. Would be much better in the same situation to drop a ruin blaster against a non basic, a Roiling Terrain against regular land, and none of that helps if you opponent dropped a goblin guide turn one.
I think a much scarier scenario is turn 3 ritual into a Chandra 1, turn 2 ritual into ranger of eos snagging steppe lynx and bushwacker, turn 2 mana barbs, etc.
The leyline is cute, but part of me doubts people are going to run it in standard in 4 slots that could go to instant speed counters. Blue decks already have a small glut of win cons, having to drop more of them really will weaken the deck by leaps and bounts.
Though I do like the idea of being able to ponder or preordain turn 1 into a Mana leak and then have my deck set up to either leak a spell or treasure hunt turn 2.
Simply put though, there is not enough redundancy yet to make this matter. If we get a reprint of serum powder or something with that similar ability maybe we see the flash deck happen.
I also believe that the leyline count might just be a touch low. Recognizing that the ones that are left over are not even that great, a single extra leyline like anticipation or punishment might work just to bring up the threat count while not having completely irrelevant abilities.
How is the cobras mana situational? Your going to play land, your going to build your deck to do so as well. Cobras mana is LESS situational that SOV, because you can get mana before or after attacking with the cobra. The steward has to give mana after if he wants to attack.
If your so worried about being mana screwed then perhaps you need to play more land anyways. if you run fetches and KOTR and lotus cobra you can thin the excess later on and fix earlier, all without preventing you from ever hitting that green mana turn one.
KOTR isn't at its best unless you build your mana base around it (fetches, etb lands) but if you do it's always the star of the deck. If you build your base around it, it makes the cobra that much better. If your using wilt leaf over this just because of oncoming goblin guides and ramgangs, my opinion is your not playing the deck right as those creatures should not be an issue if you put a monster kotr out early on.
Dauntless escort is LIGHTYEARS ahead of shield, which requires perfect timing your not always afforded to play it so that it cant just be killed while the aura is on the stack. preventing 2 for ones it does not. Hell totem armor would be better in a lot of situations than this.
It has the natural speed of RDWs without the weakness to things like firewalker.
It can actually be faster than RDWs
Rangers provide steam to the deck where a RDW may have fizzled out by then.
So i got to thinking, one of the things my boros builds are a bit weak against is a 3rd or 4th turn DOJ. UW control is really trying to push boros to the long game where they will eventually win with all of their recovery tools, so Boros has to beat them faster than they can recover. I like jinxed idol for this.
I felt like this and Fling both served the same roles, but while fling is a one time shot the in the pants that can potentially do a lot of damage, Idol is a consistent damager for the long game. Add into this the fact that if you play a leyline of scanty, you cant be given your idol back (leyline has other advantages as well)
Heres the core of the decks options so far, would love opinions on how people think this would turn into a viable deck.
4 Leyline of Scantity
4 Jinxed Idol
Boros Creature base
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Plated Gepopede
4 Goblin Guide
4 Goblin Bushwacker
4 Ranger of Eos
4 Lightning bolt
4 Path to exile
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- Woapalanne
Tabernacle at pendrel veil perhaps? your creatures wont be creatures until you win, and even if they are one seras sanctum fixes that.
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Primeval Titan
4 Elvish Visonary
2 Khalni Hydra
4 Summoning Trap
3 Eldrazi Monument
1 Kozilek, butcher of truth
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin
Primeval Titan can easily be a turn 3 drop in this deck, which can secure you all the mana you need for a turn 4 Eldrazi titan, or just smash face on it's own. There is enough big stuff that you will often get something with the summoning trap (well you'll always get something, the odds of not even seeing an elf are low)
My list would probably go something like this:
4 Awakening Zone
4 See Beyond
3 Dispel
4 Growth Spasm
4 Mana Leak
3 Fog
3 Jace, the mind sculptor
3 Garruk wildspeaker
1 Madrush Cyclops
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 Halimar Depths
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Eldrazi temple
4 Island
3 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
Side:
1 Kozelik, butcher of truth
4 Autumn's Veil
4 Negate
1 Progenitus
1 Stormtide Leviathan
1 Jace, the mind sculptor
3 Regress
My guess is that the base 5 walkers will be with us for some time, they just need to make sure that Chandra and Liliana as is are competitive based around what other cards they can be run with, which in honesty wouldn't be all that hard with some careful design work.
I think a much scarier scenario is turn 3 ritual into a Chandra 1, turn 2 ritual into ranger of eos snagging steppe lynx and bushwacker, turn 2 mana barbs, etc.
Though I do like the idea of being able to ponder or preordain turn 1 into a Mana leak and then have my deck set up to either leak a spell or treasure hunt turn 2.
Simply put though, there is not enough redundancy yet to make this matter. If we get a reprint of serum powder or something with that similar ability maybe we see the flash deck happen.
My prelim guess
Serra Ascendant
Mass Polymorph
This is scarcely the end of Red or burn.
This card does however turn a lot of legacy and vintage decks upside down.