Countertop is cute, but if i do that doesn't it just make more sense to build a countertop deck. ALso at that point is it worth running black at all, i could easily drop 4 thoughsiezes and run some more counters at that point, but doesn't it then feel like a weak version of a countertop deck instead of a trinket toolbox?
This is a deck i have been playing around with in proxies for a time, thinking about actually putting it together for real. I like that's its versatile while still having surprise I win turns. There are a lot of paths this deck can go down, but most play well with each other (LD can keep them off krosian grip mana for instance to protect grindstone painter)
Looking for any advice on streamlining the idea, any trinkets i forgot that would make sense, etc.
More often than not people adding Boss or Next Level to the title of their deck are just slapping it on to make it sound fancy.
I can't describe to you how many "Next Level" decks people have played against me that have literally nothing in common with each other or anything discernible that makes them Next level. Oh your burn deck runs Kiln Fiend, that so NEXT LEVEL!!!!11!
I personally believe that if your deck is called Next level it should have levelers in it, and if its boss it should have like a lord or something in it.
Must admit while I didn't like worldly tutor, i do in fact love Eldamri's Call in the deck. And in retrospect, exlibris is right the deck needs some removal. Would go +3 Swords to plowshares, -1 Top -1 witness -1 strand with a 4th swords in the side
The problem with Tutelage is that its a dead card in some matches. If your turn 3 swings by and you have already eaten 9-13 damage from RDWs, Boros, White Allies, etc, do you really want to cast it? What are you drawing with it that it worth the risk? In that same situation a sign in blood may draw you a disfigure or something that can keep you alive.
The best cards you can draw with tutelage are also the cards that hurt you the most. So yes you can draw tendrils or nighthawk, but then to gain a positive amount of life with them you need to jump through hoops.
Dark tutelage on turn 3 with no board presence is another thing all together, but the question is how did you do that in the first place and once again, is sign still the better draw? 99% of the time i think sign is going to be better.
The problem with tutelage is that in a lot of cases Sign in Blood is better. It's cheaper, it can be used offensively in a pinch, it's effects are immediate, and it's predictable.
Tutelage can be better, but in order for it to be better you have to consider the following things:
It takes a few turns to get you any real card advantage
It's vulnerable to removal effects and counters, while sign is just vulnerable to counters
You either have to run deck fixing or life gain to counteract the losses
Most control decks can just sit back and wait for you to die when its out
It's probably only best when you can build a deck with nothing costing over 3, which excludes a lot of cards
If aggro is prominent in the format it's that much more vulnerable
In standard, I can see it come to the forefront if black starts getting more small life gain effects or just is able to run a suicide burn deck with red. But as long as Sign in Blood is around I don't see this card making waves. Most black decks would probably have an easier time splashing for blue and just running Jace's Ingenuity that building around this.
If your playing toolbox as you are, maybe a sejiri steppe to go with the Kotrs? Maze of Ith does amazing things with KORT. Overall I think you can go up on lands overall as your going to be ripping through them,
Eldrazi monument is probably a better replacement for nocturnous than this guy, as he protects your guys from the things they need to be saved from and is synergistic with bloodghast.
Nantuko shade can put more damage out in the long game than this guy.
A nighthawk running trusty machete is more of a life point swing and less vulnerable than this dude.
Not sold on him at all. Plus a lot of those lords you mentioned don't even see play in standard, so your comparing unplayed cards to an unplayed card.
Hippies cost to much without dark ritual in the format, would drop them.
Hexmage is great int eh current game with so many planeswalkers around, would go to 4.
Bloodghasts can easily beat control in the mid to long game, you should run them. You dont even need fetches for that, just the ghasts.
Mindsludge wins games, main deck it. If you can make a control player tap out on turn 4 to play DOJ and then on your 5 hit them with a mindsludge there is literally almost no coming back for them.
Add the 4th tendrils.
IOK should hit the sideboard. It's good against RDW's and some weenie strategies but other than that you would rather be dropping bodies and things that affect the board.
Marsh casualties in the side, its really good against decks running a lot of mana dorks like mythic, and its usually a 2 for 1 if not more.
Kargan Dragonlord is far to red intense to work with all that white stuff. If your really trying to go the R/W midrange you should be playing lightning bolt, period. A single copy of Chandra also makes sense. I don't see the everflowing chalices' doing to much for you, i realize they are in there to accelerate into a Planeswalker, but that means your opening 2 turns your going to leave yourself open to get smashed with no protection for the walkers. If you want to use that ramp for good you should pack a martial coup.
Boros can actually be faster than RDW. I've been playing boros over RDWs for months now, if only because I'm to cheap to spend more money on a new deck.
A turn one steppe lynx has the potential on its own to deal 8 damage by turn 3, which is more than even goblin guide, for ONE MANA. It also runs firewalkers like a champ since it gains life off your opponents spells and its own.
The loss of Path will not be as impactful as you would thing, first of all because its probably more devastating to boros to be on the receiving end of it than the giving one. They can always replace it with Oust, Condemn, journey, or my new favoriate Kor Hookmaster (who cares if the creature is still there if your 20 damage can now get through.) The first 2 also team up well with punishing fire.
Really the fate of the deck i think is going to come down to a few things:
- Do goblins go nuts next set. If so expect that to be the better deck
- Koth might be a big deal if he costs 3
- Does boros get anymore quality one/two drops on the level of hellspark
- What does boros fill the ranger of eos hole with. What gives them more late game gas without messing up the early game.
- is there a playable R/W land
On that last point. This alone is what causes most boros match ups ive run to lose. very often i need triple red or something and just dont have it and there is almost no fixing available that works for the deck, even less once alara rotates. Even so much as a R/W pain land would send boros skyrocketing in awesome
Do you see your giant list of the "fate of the deck"? That's why we don't talk about rotation until we know more than 2 cards in the next set. Some people are still playing real Standard and not Standard missing 200+ cards.
There won't be colored artifacts on mirrodin.
That is an Esper thing.
And it has a pretty good argument towards being mythic, seeing as remakes of power 9 cards get that treatment.
- Legendary
- Provided colorless mana only
- Cost you 5 life when you cast it
So this is obviously inferior to the original 5, and arguably inferior to chrome, diamond, and lotus petal.
It would still wind up restricted in Vintage, possibly banned in legacy, and unbalance standard and extended. Thats how powerful a mox can potentially be. So my guess is that this mox has a hefty price associated with it. We have done lands and non land discard as cost, so I don't think thats going to happen again. My though is that it will have to have a restriction on what the mana can be spent on and a non mana cost (life?) when it comes into play.
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
1 Brainstorm
2 Daze
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Echoing Truth
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Grindstone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Sinkhole
4 Stifle
4 Thoughtseize
1 Trickbind
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Seat of the Synod
1 Swamp
4 Underground Sea
2 Vault of Whispers
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Hydroblast
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Extirpate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trickbind
This is a deck i have been playing around with in proxies for a time, thinking about actually putting it together for real. I like that's its versatile while still having surprise I win turns. There are a lot of paths this deck can go down, but most play well with each other (LD can keep them off krosian grip mana for instance to protect grindstone painter)
Looking for any advice on streamlining the idea, any trinkets i forgot that would make sense, etc.
I can't describe to you how many "Next Level" decks people have played against me that have literally nothing in common with each other or anything discernible that makes them Next level. Oh your burn deck runs Kiln Fiend, that so NEXT LEVEL!!!!11!
I personally believe that if your deck is called Next level it should have levelers in it, and if its boss it should have like a lord or something in it.
The best cards you can draw with tutelage are also the cards that hurt you the most. So yes you can draw tendrils or nighthawk, but then to gain a positive amount of life with them you need to jump through hoops.
Dark tutelage on turn 3 with no board presence is another thing all together, but the question is how did you do that in the first place and once again, is sign still the better draw? 99% of the time i think sign is going to be better.
Tutelage can be better, but in order for it to be better you have to consider the following things:
In standard, I can see it come to the forefront if black starts getting more small life gain effects or just is able to run a suicide burn deck with red. But as long as Sign in Blood is around I don't see this card making waves. Most black decks would probably have an easier time splashing for blue and just running Jace's Ingenuity that building around this.
If your playing toolbox as you are, maybe a sejiri steppe to go with the Kotrs? Maze of Ith does amazing things with KORT. Overall I think you can go up on lands overall as your going to be ripping through them,
I think Gaddock Teeg maindeck makes sense as does an eternal witness. You need creatures for the shamans.
Overall I think the tutors are lacking. I would probably build it to be something like this:
4 Knight Of The Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jotun Grunt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Mother Of Runes
2 Eternal witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword Of Fire And Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Aether Vial
4 Wasteland
1 Kor Haven
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
1 sejiri steppe
Nantuko shade can put more damage out in the long game than this guy.
A nighthawk running trusty machete is more of a life point swing and less vulnerable than this dude.
Not sold on him at all. Plus a lot of those lords you mentioned don't even see play in standard, so your comparing unplayed cards to an unplayed card.
Hexmage is great int eh current game with so many planeswalkers around, would go to 4.
Bloodghasts can easily beat control in the mid to long game, you should run them. You dont even need fetches for that, just the ghasts.
Mindsludge wins games, main deck it. If you can make a control player tap out on turn 4 to play DOJ and then on your 5 hit them with a mindsludge there is literally almost no coming back for them.
Add the 4th tendrils.
IOK should hit the sideboard. It's good against RDW's and some weenie strategies but other than that you would rather be dropping bodies and things that affect the board.
Marsh casualties in the side, its really good against decks running a lot of mana dorks like mythic, and its usually a 2 for 1 if not more.
Kargan Dragonlord is far to red intense to work with all that white stuff. If your really trying to go the R/W midrange you should be playing lightning bolt, period. A single copy of Chandra also makes sense. I don't see the everflowing chalices' doing to much for you, i realize they are in there to accelerate into a Planeswalker, but that means your opening 2 turns your going to leave yourself open to get smashed with no protection for the walkers. If you want to use that ramp for good you should pack a martial coup.
A turn one steppe lynx has the potential on its own to deal 8 damage by turn 3, which is more than even goblin guide, for ONE MANA. It also runs firewalkers like a champ since it gains life off your opponents spells and its own.
The loss of Path will not be as impactful as you would thing, first of all because its probably more devastating to boros to be on the receiving end of it than the giving one. They can always replace it with Oust, Condemn, journey, or my new favoriate Kor Hookmaster (who cares if the creature is still there if your 20 damage can now get through.) The first 2 also team up well with punishing fire.
Really the fate of the deck i think is going to come down to a few things:
- Do goblins go nuts next set. If so expect that to be the better deck
- Koth might be a big deal if he costs 3
- Does boros get anymore quality one/two drops on the level of hellspark
- What does boros fill the ranger of eos hole with. What gives them more late game gas without messing up the early game.
- is there a playable R/W land
On that last point. This alone is what causes most boros match ups ive run to lose. very often i need triple red or something and just dont have it and there is almost no fixing available that works for the deck, even less once alara rotates. Even so much as a R/W pain land would send boros skyrocketing in awesome
Do you see your giant list of the "fate of the deck"? That's why we don't talk about rotation until we know more than 2 cards in the next set. Some people are still playing real Standard and not Standard missing 200+ cards.
X x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1-2 x Chain of Vapor / Wipe away / Echoing Truth
1-2 x Grim discovery (Neato Tech :p)
Also would consider an alternate win con, as grave hate is as prominent in legacy as anything else and this deck is pretty vulnerable to it.
Not always
- Legendary
- Provided colorless mana only
- Cost you 5 life when you cast it
So this is obviously inferior to the original 5, and arguably inferior to chrome, diamond, and lotus petal.
It would still wind up restricted in Vintage, possibly banned in legacy, and unbalance standard and extended. Thats how powerful a mox can potentially be. So my guess is that this mox has a hefty price associated with it. We have done lands and non land discard as cost, so I don't think thats going to happen again. My though is that it will have to have a restriction on what the mana can be spent on and a non mana cost (life?) when it comes into play.