I've had some decent success with Scheming Symmetry, running it as a two-of. It's not a bad draw most of the time, especially with a Visions of Beyond in your hand. Symmetry has been responsible for some of the most explosive starts, and works well as a tutor for some key cards like Crypt Incursion or Ensnaring Bridge. It's a bit of a non-bo with Mesmeric Orb though since you can't draw the card either, so needs a cantrip to help work in those cases.
I will continue to test it but it's not a bad addition in my mind.
So I've been trying Scheming Symmetry a little over the past 2 days. I have mixed results so far.
I've tried it with a turbo-trap type deck with 4x Scheming Symmetry and 4x Thought Scour and aiming for a combo type kill, as well as slotting it as 2x in a more normal UB aggro/control type shell. Overall, Scheming Symmetry has won me games and rarely feels like a dead card. In the opening hand it feels pretty good with a Thought Scour, however in the end the issue is that it's a -1 in card advantage. Even if you start with a Thought Scour, you can fetch an Archive Trap turn 2 and then use Thought Scour to draw it, milling a total of 15 cards with essentially 2 cards. It feels better if you already have a Trap in your hand, and you can fetch something like a Visions of Beyond to refill your empty hand on the following turn. In theory it's capable of fetching a wide variety of answers, such as variable things from the sideboard, but I haven't found that comes up that often.
I think the card suffers from the overall drawback of mill which is that it doesn't quickly affect board state. Mill desperately needs more value cards that mill on top of doing other things to be truly competitive right now.
This is the turbo-trap type shell I have it running in:
I agree. I think in fact adding 4 Thought Scour is the way to go as well. The ability to draw that Archive Trap and mill your opponent for 15 that turn sounds great to me.
I've started playing the deck a bit again and there's a few things I've noticed.
With the inclusion of Mission Briefing, the mana base is a little bit tight now, heavily favouring islands. A Field of Ruin in the opening hand slows you down a bit, but two plays havoc on your manabase especially if the opponent is running monobasics. I've actually dropped down my playset to 3 copies.
Tron is typically a great match-up ever since they stopped using Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, but with Karn, the Great Creator they're a much bigger threat I've found. The match-up is still favoured to us but it's no longer 90/10 once we extract a Tron piece. The Mycosynth Lattice combo and the overall utility-box strategy Karn allows is pretty threatening.
I've been toying with the idea Blast Zone since that card is so good, but it's difficult to fit in especially given the high mana requirements of Mission Briefing. Has anyone else used Blast Zone? How has it been with having to compete with Field of Ruin?
I used to be a big believer in Esper mill but after jumping to UB I agree that tri-colour decks are WAY less consistent, and that the UB shell performs the best. Also, Blood Moon is running around everywhere and completely hoses tri-colour decks.
Right now I think Mill is at a decent place. I feel in most match-ups we have a pretty decent chance, but for me at least on MTGO it's the random Emrakul and Leylines that completely just blindside us. After Fraying Sanity and Field of Ruin were printed the deck got a pretty good boost in power so I feel that a couple of little mill-specific toolbox kits would be really great.
It's interesting that the Dimir Guild has not yet had a mill card revealed. They're really pushing Surveil, which admittedly is a pretty powerful mechanic.
I'm interested to see the split card. Mill's biggest weakness I find is Leyline of Sanctity and Eldrazi effects, with the latter being really effing annoying, so I'm keen to see a toolbox card that maybe can deal with that.
The two most important cards vs Leyline in our archetype are Mesmeric Orb and probably Manic Scribe. But Leyline turns off so much that I don't think something like Set Adrift is enough because most of the time have to waste a mill card on ourselves to deal with it and that's essentially a 2 for 1 (Set Adrift AND a mill card). Leyline of Sanctity turns off Hedron Crab[/card}, Glimpse the unthinkable[/card}, Archive Trap[/cards], and Fraying Sanity, which 4 of the 5 most important cards to the deck. Manic Scribe is nice but it's normally only a bonus - it doesn't do enough by itself.
Detection Tower is definitely slow but it can definitely work when we have an Archive Trap in hand to use in a pinch.
What do people think of Detection Tower? It seems like it's a decent sb tech vs Leyline decks. Nothing worse than a turn one where your opponent slams a Leyline of Sanctity.
Well Dominaria is spoiled now. I didn't see anything of interest to us except Damping Sphere in SB. Anyone else see anything that we might find useful?
The main reason I think is due to Field of Ruin and Fatal Push. Field of Ruin is a guaranteed Archive Trap tech, and Fatal Push hits most things we need it to hit. With these two, and the smoother mana base UB gives, is why I think UB is superior to Esper at this time. Esper is so bad against Blood Moon it's not funny.
I have played 2 Ravenous Trap in my main for a while and really liked it. My meta had a few dredge players and the occasional living end or nahiri. I have also found that ravenous works well vs snapcaster, tasiger and the zombie fish.
I have had the total opposite with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile once my opp knows I am on mill with Archive trap. I have had more opps elect to be down a land then risk a trap. So something that is not a may search I am very interested in.
This right here. Field of Ruin might not accelerate the early game but it makes such a huge difference in the mid game. How many times have you had two Archive Traps and a Visions in your hand at turn 4 and the opponent just won't search with Path or Ghost Quarter? I know I've had that very scenario several times. It also allows us to combo with Fraying Sanity (two Traps will win the game for us, even one trap is basically a Traumatize). The benefits of Field of Ruin are just too good. I'm running two in Esper but if I go Dimir then bumping it to 3 or 4 is very reasonable.
I've also experienced the Leonin Aribiter counter and it's bloody annoying. Always hated playing against Hatebears and it's even more vexing now.
Field of Ruin...Probably a two of. But I can see it replacing Ghost Quarter in most decks I think.
I wonder if Trapmaker's Snare is going to be an option now. With a definite force search, I could potentially see some combo type decks pop up. Handy because Snare could also fetch Ravenous Trap to offset Eldrazi shennanigans. Definitely needs testing.
I will continue to test it but it's not a bad addition in my mind.
I've tried it with a turbo-trap type deck with 4x Scheming Symmetry and 4x Thought Scour and aiming for a combo type kill, as well as slotting it as 2x in a more normal UB aggro/control type shell. Overall, Scheming Symmetry has won me games and rarely feels like a dead card. In the opening hand it feels pretty good with a Thought Scour, however in the end the issue is that it's a -1 in card advantage. Even if you start with a Thought Scour, you can fetch an Archive Trap turn 2 and then use Thought Scour to draw it, milling a total of 15 cards with essentially 2 cards. It feels better if you already have a Trap in your hand, and you can fetch something like a Visions of Beyond to refill your empty hand on the following turn. In theory it's capable of fetching a wide variety of answers, such as variable things from the sideboard, but I haven't found that comes up that often.
I think the card suffers from the overall drawback of mill which is that it doesn't quickly affect board state. Mill desperately needs more value cards that mill on top of doing other things to be truly competitive right now.
This is the turbo-trap type shell I have it running in:
1 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Field of Ruin
3 Watery Grave
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
2 Swamp
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
3 Visions of Beyond
3 Mesmeric Orb
2 Fraying Sanity
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Scheming Symmetry
4 Thought Scour
4 Trapmaker's Snare
1 Darkness
4 Fatal Push
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Profane Memento
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Ravenous Trap
2 Crypt Incursion
This is the more normal shell. I have a lot more fun playing it in the normal shell.
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Watery Grave
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
3 Field of Ruin
3 Swamp
4 Archive Trap
4 Glimpse the Unthinkable
4 Visions of Beyond
4 Hedron Crab
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Scheming Symmetry
3 Thought Scour
3 Mesmeric Orb
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Mission Briefing
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Echoing Truth
1 Profane Memento
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Collective Brutality
2 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Yahenni's Expertise
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Surgical Extraction
I'll probably go 3 Scheming Symmetry and 2 Thought Scours on the second deck though. Thoughts on improvements?
Another force search, this time in white. Could this replace or augment Field of Ruin in Esper decks? Does this make Esper more viable?
With the inclusion of Mission Briefing, the mana base is a little bit tight now, heavily favouring islands. A Field of Ruin in the opening hand slows you down a bit, but two plays havoc on your manabase especially if the opponent is running monobasics. I've actually dropped down my playset to 3 copies.
Tron is typically a great match-up ever since they stopped using Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, but with Karn, the Great Creator they're a much bigger threat I've found. The match-up is still favoured to us but it's no longer 90/10 once we extract a Tron piece. The Mycosynth Lattice combo and the overall utility-box strategy Karn allows is pretty threatening.
I've been toying with the idea Blast Zone since that card is so good, but it's difficult to fit in especially given the high mana requirements of Mission Briefing. Has anyone else used Blast Zone? How has it been with having to compete with Field of Ruin?
Right now I think Mill is at a decent place. I feel in most match-ups we have a pretty decent chance, but for me at least on MTGO it's the random Emrakul and Leylines that completely just blindside us. After Fraying Sanity and Field of Ruin were printed the deck got a pretty good boost in power so I feel that a couple of little mill-specific toolbox kits would be really great.
I'm interested to see the split card. Mill's biggest weakness I find is Leyline of Sanctity and Eldrazi effects, with the latter being really effing annoying, so I'm keen to see a toolbox card that maybe can deal with that.
Detection Tower is definitely slow but it can definitely work when we have an Archive Trap in hand to use in a pinch.
What Esper does bring is good sideboard tech. I really do miss not having Rest in Peace, Tempest of Light or Disenchant and Timely Reinforcements in the SB for those troublesome matchups.
This right here. Field of Ruin might not accelerate the early game but it makes such a huge difference in the mid game. How many times have you had two Archive Traps and a Visions in your hand at turn 4 and the opponent just won't search with Path or Ghost Quarter? I know I've had that very scenario several times. It also allows us to combo with Fraying Sanity (two Traps will win the game for us, even one trap is basically a Traumatize). The benefits of Field of Ruin are just too good. I'm running two in Esper but if I go Dimir then bumping it to 3 or 4 is very reasonable.
I've also experienced the Leonin Aribiter counter and it's bloody annoying. Always hated playing against Hatebears and it's even more vexing now.
I wonder if Trapmaker's Snare is going to be an option now. With a definite force search, I could potentially see some combo type decks pop up. Handy because Snare could also fetch Ravenous Trap to offset Eldrazi shennanigans. Definitely needs testing.