I could see it working in an Elemental deck, which reminds me: Can you pay the Unearth cost with Smokebraider?
No.
Quote from SCG Ask the Judge »
The only notable rules question of the day came from a player who wanted to pay for Brighthearth Banneret's reinforce ability by using the mana from a Smokebraider. Now, this doesn't work because Smokebraider's ability can only be used to play Elemental spells and activated abilities of "Elementals". When the word "Elemental" (or any other creature type) appears on its own, it means "a permanent of this type." Reinforce is an activated ability, and Brighthearth Banneret has the Elemental type on it, but when it's in your hand, it's not an Elemental permanent—it's just an Elemental card.
1) WhammWhamme - This format better be slow!
City of Brass, Durkwood Baloth, Greater Gargadon, Maze of Ith, Restore Balance
If I make Descent turn 1 (LED, Tabernacle, sac LED for black, tap Tabernacle for G with madness on the stack), WhammWhamme pitches Maze and Baloth, and wins with Gargadon. If I wait for Chasm, Restore Balance eats it anyway.
0-6
2) Halinn - Someday, I will find the right toolbox.
Black Lotus; Hammerheim; Blazing Specter; Horobi, Death's Wail; Boldwyr Heavyweights
If on the draw, I lose to Specter. On the play, I make Portal t1, discard Tabernacle then play LED, Chasm and Descent. I skip my upkeep and Descent kills Halinn
3-3
3) Chimpanzee - Archimedes
Black Lotus, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Eureka, Pandemonium, Sekki, Seasons' Guide
I put everything into play off Eureka and take no damage.
6-0
4) AJFirst - Hopefully the format will slow down enough
Academy Ruins, Keldon Megaliths, Izzet Boilerworks, Powder Keg, Maze of Ith
On the play or draw, I make t1 descent. It outraces Megalithis, since my hand is empty from the start.
6-0
5) ghweiss - Abeyance: I wish you did anything
Arcane Denial, Black Lotus, Dust Bowl, Leonin Squire, Wheel of Sun & Moon.
I can't deal with recurring Dust Bowl.
0-6
6) YuanTi - YesStick
Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Epochrasite, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
I establish Chasm+Descent lock and Yuanti gains 3 life a turn.
2-2
Most recent submission counts, apparently.
7) Mogg - My Favourite Combo Deck
Black Lotus, Channel, Mindslaver, Mirror Universe, Scalding Tongs
Mindslaver wrecks me the draw. On the play, I have to make t1 Descent or slaver kills me, Mogg discards slaver and plays mirror+tongs, outraces descent.
0-6
8) bateleur - It's Futile
Ancient Tomb, Epochrasite, Fountain of Cho, Sphere of Resistance, Windborn Muse
I play and tap portal to make LED, then tap portal, play chasm saccing portal, tap chasm for G, sac LED and play Descent.
6-0
9) ced395- Raining Cats and Birds
Azorius Chancery, City of Traitors, Maze of Ith, Pride of the Clouds, Sphere of Resistance
See 8.
6-0
10) Stax - Leyline_FTW 2.0.dec
Leyline of the Void, Black Lotus, Black Lotus, Avatar of Discord, Firemane Angel
Chasm+Descent locks him out, but he can discard angel to descent and survive.
2-2
11) Farik - Everybody hates a tourist
Sphere of Resistance, Mishra's Workshop, Epochrasite, Foil, Island
He counters descent, casts Epochrasite and swings with haste every time it comes off suspend to beat Tabernacle.
0-6
12) YuanTi - Last Minute 10 pointer
Chalice of the Void, Epochrasite, Epochrasite, Mishra's Workshop, Sphere of Resistance
On the play, I make LED and Tabernacle t1, then play portal, then sac it to chasm and pay 5 if needed for descent.
On the draw, Chalice FTW.
3-3
14) Error1 - Whats the point of disruption.dec
Spectral Procession, Battle Screech, Foil, Black Lotus, Island
I wait it out, playing all 3 lands before casting descent, saccing portal to chasm. If he counters descent he cannot pay for Tabernacle and I sac chasm to it's upkeep. Otherwise I win.
2-2
Looks like I should have gone with Maze of Ith over Tabernacle this week.
bateleur: You can't madness Basking Rootwalla, madness plays the spell.
4e| You may only play spells on your turn, unless a triggered ability would allow you to do otherwise. You are still limited by Rule 5.
If I now reinforce Rustic Clachan onto the saproling (if I haven't used it already, just to stop andelijah from using it)and cycleSlice and Dice in response to the reinforce, killing the saproling, then make my 2 assembly-workers does that mean bateleur has already killed a player this turn and cannot do so again?
Cause if that works, I do that. (sorry but the best way to survive until my turn is to make my turn the next turn :p)
Waiting for TMT to check in and tell me I'm cheating somehow.
EDIT: Oh there he is now. I'll put the Assembly-Workers on hold until we determine if I can let biorhythm become illegality-countered instead.
This is of questionable legality at best, but I would like to...
After the manland activations resolve, channel Jiwari, the Earth Aflame for x=2 and copy with rings. (with the intention of, after we see what bat does to survive the biorhythm still on the stack, tapping Rix Maadi and Sunhome to activate and copy Urza's Factory.)
Does this count as killing 2 players (bateleur and andelijah) in one turn, and is thus illegal? Does it cause the Biorhythm to count as killing 2 players in 1 turn, and get game-rules countered? Is it legal because andelijah is capable of surviving by making a saproling and bateleur by channel, cycling and/or reinforce shenanigans? Can I perform actions that force others to respond to make them legal like this?
If this play is deemed unacceptable, I'll add a reinforced Rustic Clachan targeting Gorgon Recluse to the play make it legal.
Ideally I'm just looking for a way that bateleur has to waste his channel, cycling, and reinforce cards to survive biorhythm (or outright die to it) without breaking the rules.
P.S. Ignore bateleur's threat re: other people's responses, he'll just kill everyone else in their upkeep with trisk and/or Barbarian Ring if this goes through. Faerie Macabre for example could be very helpful.
At the end of GiftsTrix's first turn, I cycle and copy Solar Blast, pinging Seedborn Muse for the last point. At the end of GiftsTrix's second turn, I continue my scheduled cycling with Forgotten Cave and copy.
Wow, thanks bateleur! No responses, happy to take 4 for now, but don't start your turn until I check in after GiftsTrix finishes this turn. I may still do something.
Untap
Upkeep: Nothing
Draw (6 Cards)
Main: Suspend Greater Gargadon. Play Urza's Factory. Play Lava Spike, targeting Bateleur, splicing Through the Breach. (On that note, does the one spliced card get its own 5 mana, or is it part of the spell's? This doesn't change my choice of arcane spell this turn.)
And Nix seems wrong since Spell Burst is legal. Burst is just way better and has possible applications against other decks.
No.
Link to source article
The same principle applies here - Hell's thunder is an Elemental card, but not an Elemental permanent, while in your graveyard.
Gibbering Descent, Glacial Chasm, Lion's Eye Diamond, Riftstone Portal, Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
VS
1) WhammWhamme - This format better be slow!
City of Brass, Durkwood Baloth, Greater Gargadon, Maze of Ith, Restore Balance
If I make Descent turn 1 (LED, Tabernacle, sac LED for black, tap Tabernacle for G with madness on the stack), WhammWhamme pitches Maze and Baloth, and wins with Gargadon. If I wait for Chasm, Restore Balance eats it anyway.
0-6
2) Halinn - Someday, I will find the right toolbox.
Black Lotus; Hammerheim; Blazing Specter; Horobi, Death's Wail; Boldwyr Heavyweights
If on the draw, I lose to Specter. On the play, I make Portal t1, discard Tabernacle then play LED, Chasm and Descent. I skip my upkeep and Descent kills Halinn
3-3
3) Chimpanzee - Archimedes
Black Lotus, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Eureka, Pandemonium, Sekki, Seasons' Guide
I put everything into play off Eureka and take no damage.
6-0
4) AJFirst - Hopefully the format will slow down enough
Academy Ruins, Keldon Megaliths, Izzet Boilerworks, Powder Keg, Maze of Ith
On the play or draw, I make t1 descent. It outraces Megalithis, since my hand is empty from the start.
6-0
5) ghweiss - Abeyance: I wish you did anything
Arcane Denial, Black Lotus, Dust Bowl, Leonin Squire, Wheel of Sun & Moon.
I can't deal with recurring Dust Bowl.
0-6
6) YuanTi - YesStickAncient Tomb, City of Traitors, Epochrasite, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix
I establish Chasm+Descent lock and Yuanti gains 3 life a turn.
2-2
Most recent submission counts, apparently.
7) Mogg - My Favourite Combo Deck
Black Lotus, Channel, Mindslaver, Mirror Universe, Scalding Tongs
Mindslaver wrecks me the draw. On the play, I have to make t1 Descent or slaver kills me, Mogg discards slaver and plays mirror+tongs, outraces descent.
0-6
8) bateleur - It's Futile
Ancient Tomb, Epochrasite, Fountain of Cho, Sphere of Resistance, Windborn Muse
I play and tap portal to make LED, then tap portal, play chasm saccing portal, tap chasm for G, sac LED and play Descent.
6-0
9) ced395- Raining Cats and Birds
Azorius Chancery, City of Traitors, Maze of Ith, Pride of the Clouds, Sphere of Resistance
See 8.
6-0
10) Stax - Leyline_FTW 2.0.dec
Leyline of the Void, Black Lotus, Black Lotus,
Avatar of Discord, Firemane AngelChasm+Descent locks him out, but he can discard angel to descent and survive.
2-2
11) Farik - Everybody hates a tourist
Sphere of Resistance, Mishra's Workshop, Epochrasite, Foil, Island
He counters descent, casts Epochrasite and swings with haste every time it comes off suspend to beat Tabernacle.
0-6
12) YuanTi - Last Minute 10 pointer
Chalice of the Void, Epochrasite, Epochrasite, Mishra's Workshop, Sphere of Resistance
On the play, I make LED and Tabernacle t1, then play portal, then sac it to chasm and pay 5 if needed for descent.
On the draw, Chalice FTW.
3-3
14) Error1 - Whats the point of disruption.dec
Spectral Procession, Battle Screech, Foil, Black Lotus, Island
I wait it out, playing all 3 lands before casting descent, saccing portal to chasm. If he counters descent he cannot pay for Tabernacle and I sac chasm to it's upkeep. Otherwise I win.
2-2
Looks like I should have gone with Maze of Ith over Tabernacle this week.
4e| You may only play spells on your turn, unless a triggered ability would allow you to do otherwise. You are still limited by Rule 5.
If I now reinforce Rustic Clachan onto the saproling (if I haven't used it already, just to stop andelijah from using it)and cycleSlice and Dice in response to the reinforce, killing the saproling, then make my 2 assembly-workers does that mean bateleur has already killed a player this turn and cannot do so again?
Cause if that works, I do that. (sorry but the best way to survive until my turn is to make my turn the next turn :p)
Waiting for TMT to check in and tell me I'm cheating somehow.
EDIT: Oh there he is now. I'll put the Assembly-Workers on hold until we determine if I can let biorhythm become illegality-countered instead.
This is of questionable legality at best, but I would like to...
After the manland activations resolve, channel Jiwari, the Earth Aflame for x=2 and copy with rings. (with the intention of, after we see what bat does to survive the biorhythm still on the stack, tapping Rix Maadi and Sunhome to activate and copy Urza's Factory.)
Does this count as killing 2 players (bateleur and andelijah) in one turn, and is thus illegal? Does it cause the Biorhythm to count as killing 2 players in 1 turn, and get game-rules countered? Is it legal because andelijah is capable of surviving by making a saproling and bateleur by channel, cycling and/or reinforce shenanigans? Can I perform actions that force others to respond to make them legal like this?
If this play is deemed unacceptable, I'll add a reinforced Rustic Clachan targeting Gorgon Recluse to the play make it legal.
Ideally I'm just looking for a way that bateleur has to waste his channel, cycling, and reinforce cards to survive biorhythm (or outright die to it) without breaking the rules.
P.S. Ignore bateleur's threat re: other people's responses, he'll just kill everyone else in their upkeep with trisk and/or Barbarian Ring if this goes through. Faerie Macabre for example could be very helpful.
Not other responses.
Shinen of Flight's Wings has a chance to be a Terminate here. It will never be good again. Just saying.
Main: Activate Bloodletter Quill and copy it. Remove the counter in response. Cycle Secluded Steppe and copy it.
End turn.
(Will cycle and copy Forgotten Cave, Lay Waste, and Spark Spray in that order during other players' end steps unless otherwise stated)
Life: 19
Hand: 6 (Through the Breach)
In Play: Rings of Brighthearth, Bloodletter Quill (0 blood counters, tapped), Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion, Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, Prahv, Spires of Order, Urza's Factory
In Graveyard: Akroma, Angel of Fury, Macetail Hystrodon, Lonely Sandbar, Tranquil Thicket, Barren Moor, Secluded Steppe, Lava Spike
Removed From Game: Greater Gargadon (10 time counters)
EDIT: I'm sure the card count is right, BTW. Check your figures again.
Untap
Upkeep: Nothing
Draw (6 Cards)
Main: Suspend Greater Gargadon. Play Urza's Factory. Play Lava Spike, targeting Bateleur, splicing Through the Breach. (On that note, does the one spliced card get its own 5 mana, or is it part of the spell's? This doesn't change my choice of arcane spell this turn.)
Awaiting responses. (3 Cards, Through the Breach)
Life: 19
Hand: 3
In Play: Rings of Brighthearth, Bloodletter Quill (0 blood counters), Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion, Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, Prahv, Spires of Order, Urza's Factory
In Graveyard: Akroma, Angel of Fury, Macetail Hystrodon, Lonely Sandbar, Tranquil Thicket, Barren Moor
Removed From Game: Greater Gargadon (10 time counters)
And yes, I'm cycling Lonely Sandbar and copying it.
Upkeep: Killer Instinct puts Akroma, Angel of Fury into play.
Draw
Main 1:
Combat: Give Akroma +5/+0 (Her ability) and Double Strike(Sunhome), Attack Halinn for 22 Pro:White.
If nobody decides to save Halinn, I:
Main 2:Play Rings of Brighthearth, activate Bloodletter Quill and copy it. Remove the counter in response. Cycle Macetail Hystrodon and copy it. Play Prahv, Spires of Order.
Sacrifice Akroma. End turn.
(if Hallin survives my combat phase my turn will change)
Life: 19
Hand: 2
In Play: Bloodletter Quill (tapped), Killer Instinct, Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion (tapped), Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace, Prahv, Spires of Order, Rings of Brighthearth
In Graveyard: Macetail Hystrodon, Akroma, Angel of Fury,
Removed From Game:
Notes: In each other player's end step, I will cycle their color's cycling land and copy it with rings unless otherwise indicated.
Upkeep
Draw (1 Card)
Main Phase- Play and activate Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace. Discard nothing.
Activate bloodletter quill and remove the blood counter in response. Tap Sunhome to play Killer Instinct
Life: 19
Hand: 0
Main: play Bloodletter Quill, activate it, play Sunhome, Fortress of the Leigon. In Halinn's upkeep, remove the blood counter.
Life: 19
Hand: 0
In Play: Bloodletter Quill, Sunhome, fortress of the Legion
In Graveyard:
Removed From Game:
Notes: Remove blood counter in Halinn's Upkeep
Hurrah for not having to choose a color myself! So many broken things to do in EXT I couldn't decide