In decks where you have them on a quick clock (boros, zoo), Chant is the card you want. They probably have no hand disruption left in the deck after game 1, and even if they do, it's probably too slow for them to do anything about it.
For slower decks (tron, etc), you want Rule of Law. Games in this matchup typically run longer than usual because they need to dodge your counters, and you have no quick way to kill. Running Orim's Chant means that all they need to do is to make sure to Duress you before going off. If you manage to get Rule of Law into play, all you need to do is defend it to win. This is pretty easy considering how much more useful Remand becomes under Rule of Law.
You're on the right track, but not quite. All they need to do is Duress you before they go off? Well, they could always just replace card X(which deals with whatever you just played against them) with that Duress that they Burning Wished for. Their sideboard takes care of everything, from Trinisphere to Rule of Law to Orim's Chant to Pyrostatic Pillar to Angel's Grace to Ivory Mask to Gilded Light. Your only outright chance against them is to be applying enough pressure so that you can afford to play ONE copy of one of these cards, and then win because of it. UW Tron/Post/TrinketPost is able to protect their Rule of Law/Arcane Lab, so they don't need to worry about applying pressure. Other decks need to choose a solution that will give them the best chance at winning. In Boros, it's most likely Pyrostatic Pillar, in Other white aggro decks, it's probably going to be either Rule of Law(which buys three turns due to the fact that they have to Wish, then kill the RoL, then the next turn they can proceed to go off) or Orim's Chant(which can be amazing at the right time, causing them mana burn, so you can kill them that much quicker). And with decks like Gifts Rock, Aggro Loam, Aggro Flow, Aggro Rock and such, you just have to rely on your disruption going the distance(Therapy/Duress/Flow/Dreams slow them down a LOT). Basically, it's a matter of what deck you're playing with. There is no catch-all solution to TEPS.
1. Teferi
2. Dark Confidant
3. Giant Solifuge
4. Spectral Force
5. Loxodon Heirarch
Teferi is nuts, he shuts down a card type and a deck type.
Confidant makes black aggro playable.
Solifuge forces control decks to build their decks differently so they don't lose to it.
Spectral Force is the most cost-efficient creature in the format.
Loxodon Hierarch makes aggro players cry every time he hits the board.
These are all creatures that help decide EVERY match they're involved in... they break the game wide open. The 5 best, IMO.
EDIT: By the way, Akroma the White is horrible... Akroma the Red is decent, and Hellkite/Shapeshifter/Skeletal are better than either of the them... the days of the 2WW/2BB fatty are over...
Unless you draw something red to wash the extra red mana through, your double-white spells (Priest, Knight) are going to be painful to cast. Not to mention the 2 life every two turns replaying the Foundry.
Since you're on the draw, and your opponent is down to five on the play, you can afford to mulligan back even a borderline hand. This one is too painful to keep.
Verdict: Ship it back.
Could you cite relevance? Remember, we're playing against I'll_Kill_You_Eventually.dec, not Zoo... What are you gonna get with a 6-card hand as opposed to this hand? A hand that does the same thing(gives you 4 creatures in consecutive turns) with less pain and only 6 cards at your disposal to start? Bad idea... and what happens if you get a bad 6-carder(most likely what happened to your opponent)? There aren't very many 5-card Boros hands that can beat Martyr decks these days... I'll take my chances with that playable 7-card hand.
You might want to replace some of those with Groundbreaker/Timbermare/Uktabi Drake/whatever from PC, but as is, it's a moderately competitive deck... Don't expect to 7-0 with this thing, but you can easily do well at an FNM with it...
You absolutely keep that, knowing only what your opponent and you are playing... Turn 1 creature + Turn 2 creature is a great start against their deck, especially when you get a Lion and a Martyr-killer... drop the first 3 creatures turns 1-3, then wait for them to wrath, and continue dropping guys/burning them until it's just too much for their 5-card starter to handle...
They likely mulliganed their first hand because it was subpar against you(in other words, no martyrs), and that brings up the possibility that they mulliganed their 6-card hand because it was just horrible(too many/few lands). Either that, or they just mulliganed to that 2x Martyr hand, which is very unlikely... And you really shouldn't have to worry about their recursion, since it's extremely unlikely they'll assemble 6 mana before you kill them, especially with that kind of slow start.
Well, what I meant was that we should send our decklists/SC's to somebody to make sure nobody's cheating(changing the deck after every round, etc.:p)... but I guess since this is just for grins(and a small smidgeon of pride), it really doesn't matter all that much...
The same argument can be said about Force. He's only good if you have a Scryb Ranger in play. Otherwise, he's doing 8 damage every two turns...which is just like Hierarch/Baloth.
As for the he dies to First Strike + Sudden Shock. That's true. If my opponent attacks and I have a Hierarch in play, it's gonna make me think, why is he attacking when I have a bigger creature. So chump block or take the two. Same goes for me attacking. I may hold off if he has a Silver Knight and 1R open. I may wait until I get the opposition in play. It's about playing smarter with Hierarch. With Force you just turn it sideways every other turn. While Force is nasty, without Ranger in play, he's no better than a 4/8 creature.
Have you read the text on Wirewood Symbiote? I posted it a page back, so you won't have to go far to find it... "Untap target creature." And Spectral Force is targetable, right? So... there you have it. Spectral Force is a nigh-unkillable, trampling 8/8; Hierarch is a 4/4 with some helpful lifegain; and Baloth is a 4/4 that gains you life when he dies(or forces you to sac him whenever you are targeted by that last burn spell; which means you die to sudden shock if you're sitting on 2 life)...
So, in the matchups where you need it, which would you rather have? More unneeded lifegain on a crappy body, or a huge-ass trampling machine that does twice the damage every turn? You might need to do some matchup analysis to see for yourself where Spectral Force is needed, but I can tell you right now that lifegain is NOT needed in the Boros matchup...
If you don't draw Spectral Force, that's pretty much exactly what you have. (Well, Eternal Witness is a 2/1, but still.) Ideally, the deck can use Static Orb and/or Opposition to keep things tied up until either Spectral Force shows up or you have mad 1/1 tokens thanks to multiple Beacons. The problem is, 1/1 creatures are quite easy to kill, even in quantities.
Heh, true...
Is there any other deck in the format that scoops to Nausea?
@Joseph Penney: I definately see where you're coming from in using Top in the deck, but I still don't see why you cut out all of the Orbs... you said one of the reasons Top was in there was to search out silver bullets in the SB, so why not have a MD Orb? I was basically saying that you shouldn't cut Orb(a great lock-enabler in the deck) just so you could use Top... I'm sure there's a way to balance out the #s so that you can still play Orb... if you want to.
Umm, I just noticed your talking about using the Symbiote and such to untapped frozen creatures. Well, as far as I know, you are supposed to use an untapped creature to tap the Static Orb before your untap step, is that correct?
Yes, that is the plan... if you have opposition in play already... I was merely stating that you could plan on drawing either Opposition or Static Orb to effectively give yourself a huge advantage... Either way, if you're not running Divining Tops, the 4th Opposition needs to be somewhere, either in the MD or the SB. It's so crucial to winning so many matchups...
Quote from Meow_Mix »
Also, Coiling Oracle and Wood Elves help shuffle and find Opposition and Orb if needed.
Yes, but that's only if you have SDT in your deck... they don't do anything to "find" the cards you need unless you have library manipulation.
Quote from Meow_Mix »
Would you guys suggest this deck to a PTQ?
Absolutely not. It's currently the most popular deck on MTGO(and I'm sure it's gaining a LOT of popularity for IRL testing), so I don't see it living through any hate and/or metagaming*... There might be a list that makes it to T8 yet again, but I don't really see this deck taking over the metagame any time soon.
*In other words, if 20-30% of the people at the tourney are expected to play this deck, decks like Tooth/TEPS/Tron/Tog/Ichorid/etc will show up in higher numbers and thus make your deck choice less effective, since more people will be prepared to beat this deck.
[...]
Blah Blah, Subpar decklist, Blah.
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Standard fair except for 3 copies of Top that replaced the win-moreness of Static Orb. Helps with finding sideboard bullets, Beacon, or Opposition and the deck shuffles like every turn if it is running correctly so its almost like drawing 6 cards a turn (note the almost). Anyways, I've been testing it out in quite a few games and it is GODLY. The sole reason that I won a very close game with Affinity is because I was able to find Krosan Grip after much searching with Top to destroy his Pithing Needle set to Opposition. It has come in handy countless times and I reccomend it to anyone who has trouble finding any of their cards =D
From MTG.com:
1) "Return an Elf you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
2) "Flying, Protection from blue
Return a Forest you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
Now... how the HELL could you call Static Orb a win-more card? What other card in your deck would help you completely lock down an opponent during his/her upkeep every turn? Even if you don't have Opposition down, you still have cards in your deck that help you benefit more from the Orb than your opponent... bounce your tapped lands(then replay them) to untap your creatures that are Orb-locked? Bounce your tapped elf(one that's going to draw you a card or put a land into play) so that your other Orb-locked creature can untap? I really don't see how SDT could help you more in the manner of winning a game... And I really don't see you reshuffling every turn, as all you have are 4 wood elves, 5 fetchlands, and 4 beacons... Tooth and Nail decks barely reshuffle every other turn, and they have a lot more shuffling effects than this deck does(17+, I believe?)...
So... what are you going to do with a divining top in the mirror match? Try to find a beacon just so you can catch up? Or, would you rather have the opportunity to catch them offguard and get the lock on them first? I dunno about you, but there's not much to win with when you have a trinket instead of a lock component...
You're on the right track, but not quite. All they need to do is Duress you before they go off? Well, they could always just replace card X(which deals with whatever you just played against them) with that Duress that they Burning Wished for. Their sideboard takes care of everything, from Trinisphere to Rule of Law to Orim's Chant to Pyrostatic Pillar to Angel's Grace to Ivory Mask to Gilded Light. Your only outright chance against them is to be applying enough pressure so that you can afford to play ONE copy of one of these cards, and then win because of it. UW Tron/Post/TrinketPost is able to protect their Rule of Law/Arcane Lab, so they don't need to worry about applying pressure. Other decks need to choose a solution that will give them the best chance at winning. In Boros, it's most likely Pyrostatic Pillar, in Other white aggro decks, it's probably going to be either Rule of Law(which buys three turns due to the fact that they have to Wish, then kill the RoL, then the next turn they can proceed to go off) or Orim's Chant(which can be amazing at the right time, causing them mana burn, so you can kill them that much quicker). And with decks like Gifts Rock, Aggro Loam, Aggro Flow, Aggro Rock and such, you just have to rely on your disruption going the distance(Therapy/Duress/Flow/Dreams slow them down a LOT). Basically, it's a matter of what deck you're playing with. There is no catch-all solution to TEPS.
2. Dark Confidant
3. Giant Solifuge
4. Spectral Force
5. Loxodon Heirarch
Teferi is nuts, he shuts down a card type and a deck type.
Confidant makes black aggro playable.
Solifuge forces control decks to build their decks differently so they don't lose to it.
Spectral Force is the most cost-efficient creature in the format.
Loxodon Hierarch makes aggro players cry every time he hits the board.
These are all creatures that help decide EVERY match they're involved in... they break the game wide open. The 5 best, IMO.
EDIT: By the way, Akroma the White is horrible... Akroma the Red is decent, and Hellkite/Shapeshifter/Skeletal are better than either of the them... the days of the 2WW/2BB fatty are over...
Could you cite relevance? Remember, we're playing against I'll_Kill_You_Eventually.dec, not Zoo... What are you gonna get with a 6-card hand as opposed to this hand? A hand that does the same thing(gives you 4 creatures in consecutive turns) with less pain and only 6 cards at your disposal to start? Bad idea... and what happens if you get a bad 6-carder(most likely what happened to your opponent)? There aren't very many 5-card Boros hands that can beat Martyr decks these days... I'll take my chances with that playable 7-card hand.
20 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
Creatures(27):
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
3 Boreal Druid
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Scryb Ranger
4 Spectral Force
4 Yavimaya Dryad
4 Call of the Herd
4 Moldervine Cloak
4 Stonewood Invocation
You might want to replace some of those with Groundbreaker/Timbermare/Uktabi Drake/whatever from PC, but as is, it's a moderately competitive deck... Don't expect to 7-0 with this thing, but you can easily do well at an FNM with it...
They likely mulliganed their first hand because it was subpar against you(in other words, no martyrs), and that brings up the possibility that they mulliganed their 6-card hand because it was just horrible(too many/few lands). Either that, or they just mulliganed to that 2x Martyr hand, which is very unlikely... And you really shouldn't have to worry about their recursion, since it's extremely unlikely they'll assemble 6 mana before you kill them, especially with that kind of slow start.
Have you read the text on Wirewood Symbiote? I posted it a page back, so you won't have to go far to find it... "Untap target creature." And Spectral Force is targetable, right? So... there you have it. Spectral Force is a nigh-unkillable, trampling 8/8; Hierarch is a 4/4 with some helpful lifegain; and Baloth is a 4/4 that gains you life when he dies(or forces you to sac him whenever you are targeted by that last burn spell; which means you die to sudden shock if you're sitting on 2 life)...
So, in the matchups where you need it, which would you rather have? More unneeded lifegain on a crappy body, or a huge-ass trampling machine that does twice the damage every turn? You might need to do some matchup analysis to see for yourself where Spectral Force is needed, but I can tell you right now that lifegain is NOT needed in the Boros matchup...
Is there any other deck in the format that scoops to Nausea?
Yes, that is the plan... if you have opposition in play already... I was merely stating that you could plan on drawing either Opposition or Static Orb to effectively give yourself a huge advantage... Either way, if you're not running Divining Tops, the 4th Opposition needs to be somewhere, either in the MD or the SB. It's so crucial to winning so many matchups...
Yes, but that's only if you have SDT in your deck... they don't do anything to "find" the cards you need unless you have library manipulation.
Absolutely not.
*In other words, if 20-30% of the people at the tourney are expected to play this deck, decks like Tooth/TEPS/Tron/Tog/Ichorid/etc will show up in higher numbers and thus make your deck choice less effective, since more people will be prepared to beat this deck.
From MTG.com:
1) "Return an Elf you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
2) "Flying, Protection from blue
Return a Forest you control to its owner's hand: Untap target creature. Play this ability only once each turn."
Now... how the HELL could you call Static Orb a win-more card? What other card in your deck would help you completely lock down an opponent during his/her upkeep every turn? Even if you don't have Opposition down, you still have cards in your deck that help you benefit more from the Orb than your opponent... bounce your tapped lands(then replay them) to untap your creatures that are Orb-locked? Bounce your tapped elf(one that's going to draw you a card or put a land into play) so that your other Orb-locked creature can untap? I really don't see how SDT could help you more in the manner of winning a game... And I really don't see you reshuffling every turn, as all you have are 4 wood elves, 5 fetchlands, and 4 beacons... Tooth and Nail decks barely reshuffle every other turn, and they have a lot more shuffling effects than this deck does(17+, I believe?)...
So... what are you going to do with a divining top in the mirror match? Try to find a beacon just so you can catch up? Or, would you rather have the opportunity to catch them offguard and get the lock on them first? I dunno about you, but there's not much to win with when you have a trinket instead of a lock component...