That is not a good argument. I think we can safely say that playing jace naked is not the best strategy. I am sure in mirrodan, skullclamp was bad without creatures. Its a matter of context.
Just a question to the argument that caw blade would still be around: Isn't that what we want to happen? Even though I don't play it, I would still like to see caw blade in the format, just not the only deck to beat.
Pretty much this....
But at this point, I don't really care if Jace gets banned or not, just want for some variety. Hopefully NPH will help us with that.
On Tectonics.
I would seriously love to add some tectonics to the deck. It's just that I don't want to reduce the efficiency of a T4 Obliterator. It is just SO good. I think that maybe tectonics are one of the things we have to unfortunately sacrifice in order to run Obliterator.
On Lightning Bolts.
I'm not a big fan of lightning bolt against planeswalkers. Because more often than not, you need to double lightning bolt PW to kill them. Jace requres 2 bolts after fateseal. Koth requires 2 bolts after his +1. Pretty much all PW requires you to double bolt them. In that case, I'd rather have hard removal and bring in the hexmages Round 2.
Don't think of the 12 removal as "outs" as Percy, although it definitely is. It's like that so that you can use them indiscriminately without having to think twice of whether you are able to remove Percy after you do.
Thats just what I think, but I could be wrong and be thinking a little too closed-minded. So we'll see after I do some testing.
Everything is pretty straightforward. As you can see, this SB is designed to rip apart Caw-Blade, since it is the best deck.
VS Caw-Blade I would do something like this
-4 Gatekeeper
-4 Geth's Verdict
-1 Abyssal Persecutor/Go for the Throat/anything really
+4 Manic Vandal
+4 Vampire Hexmage
+1 Sword of War and Peace
Lol I'm sure you noticed, but one little funny thing I did was add in the sword so if you vat a stoneforge, you can tutor it. I'd love to see the look on their face when you do. Not to mention this sword is very good against caw-blade. HAHA
Thinking about it, I think Alai was right, Pyrclasm in the board could do wonders.
Oh and one thing about Despise. I tried it in the deck but I didn't like it much. With all the removal we run, I don't think that pulling a creature is really that important. When I got it, sometimes I'd wished I rather had a duress. So for now i like duress more than despise.
Who cares, anyway. If you can't beat caw-blade then just play it. Banning Jace isn't going to bring you to some promised land of a diverse meta, anyway. That only happens when there's gold cards and enemy duals.
I have no problem with people playing Caw-Blade because it is the best deck right now, obviously. It just pisses me off when people refuse to see facts and say garbage like Jace doesn't do jack sheet for Caw-Blade because they don't want it to be banned (not saying it will be, but with all the talk of banning, they are scared).
The only stoneforge deck that made top 16 there was one that has Jace.
Like i said before, Jace might not be the only reason it pushes Caw-Blade to Tier 0, but it sure has hell wouldn't be Tier 0 without Jace. Again, is Caw-Blade a good deck without Jace? YEA IT IS. Is it bonkers with Jace? UM YEA. I don't get why people underplay Jace like he doesn't do ☺☺☺☺. HE DOES SO MUCH, I don't get how people can deny that.
Now lets look at the other decks there.
UG Vine, Hey Jace.
RUG Control, Hey Jace.
Pyromancer Ascension, Yo Watap Jace.
UW Control, Damn i'm seeing you around a lot bro.
So there are in total 4 decks in a top 16 that didn't have Jace. None of those 4 decks were even close to top 8'ing. And you guessed it, the top 8, all has Jace.
Like seriously, do you SERIOUSLY think that Caw-Blade would be curb-stomping top 8's without Jace? I'll say it again. Jace might not be the only reason Caw-Blade is Tier 0, BUT IT SURE AS HELL WOULDN'T BE THERE WITHOUT JACE.
That said, to some extent I will agree that it is also because of Valakut that Caw-Blade is so rampant, but nowhere near as responsible as Jace is. He IS that good. The undisputed BEST CARD in standard MAKES DECKS BETTER. He warps the format around him. Thats also a fact.
If it is the only Jace deck to be put into tier 0 with him, why not?
Yea, if you want to make the best deck, then why wouldn't you? I never said that Caw Blade wasn't tier 0. As a matter of fact, i think i said it was in Tier God...
No, Caw-Blade has so many weapons, that is why it's the dominant deck atm. No other deck can field the number of weapons Caw-Blades fields. jace alone is NOT what pushes it over the top.
Jace alone might not be what pushes Caw-Blade over the top but I think I can say with some certainty that without Jace, Caw-Blade wouldn't be Tier 0. Will it still be Tier 1? Probably.
Lol you do know that Tier 1 isn't made up of only Caw Blade, so I don't know about "best". But will it be a good deck without Jace? Of course. I'm not disputing that.
Yea but Gatekeeper brings you card advantage. Potentially a guaranteed 2 for 1. And a lot of magic is about CA.
Geth's Verdict is just a 1 for 1, one that requires some effort to hit the one you want.
That said, I'm not sure if you can say that gatekeeper is "better" since they both their own advantages. But I can understand why some people would play him over GV.
If you really think that it's because of Valakut that Caw Blade is in "Tier God", then there actually is no point in arguing with you, because you are "ignorant folly".
Cmon lets face facts, it's because of Jace, that Caw Blade is in a tier of it's own. I mean Caw Blade is a good deck by itself, but with Jace, it gets ridiculous.
Pretty much this....
But at this point, I don't really care if Jace gets banned or not, just want for some variety. Hopefully NPH will help us with that.
I would seriously love to add some tectonics to the deck. It's just that I don't want to reduce the efficiency of a T4 Obliterator. It is just SO good. I think that maybe tectonics are one of the things we have to unfortunately sacrifice in order to run Obliterator.
On Lightning Bolts.
I'm not a big fan of lightning bolt against planeswalkers. Because more often than not, you need to double lightning bolt PW to kill them. Jace requres 2 bolts after fateseal. Koth requires 2 bolts after his +1. Pretty much all PW requires you to double bolt them. In that case, I'd rather have hard removal and bring in the hexmages Round 2.
Don't think of the 12 removal as "outs" as Percy, although it definitely is. It's like that so that you can use them indiscriminately without having to think twice of whether you are able to remove Percy after you do.
Thats just what I think, but I could be wrong and be thinking a little too closed-minded. So we'll see after I do some testing.
I changed the SB.
4 Manic Vandal
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Pyroclasm
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace
Everything is pretty straightforward. As you can see, this SB is designed to rip apart Caw-Blade, since it is the best deck.
VS Caw-Blade I would do something like this
-4 Gatekeeper
-4 Geth's Verdict
-1 Abyssal Persecutor/Go for the Throat/anything really
+4 Manic Vandal
+4 Vampire Hexmage
+1 Sword of War and Peace
Lol I'm sure you noticed, but one little funny thing I did was add in the sword so if you vat a stoneforge, you can tutor it. I'd love to see the look on their face when you do. Not to mention this sword is very good against caw-blade. HAHA
Thinking about it, I think Alai was right, Pyrclasm in the board could do wonders.
Oh and one thing about Despise. I tried it in the deck but I didn't like it much. With all the removal we run, I don't think that pulling a creature is really that important. When I got it, sometimes I'd wished I rather had a duress. So for now i like duress more than despise.
I have no problem with people playing Caw-Blade because it is the best deck right now, obviously. It just pisses me off when people refuse to see facts and say garbage like Jace doesn't do jack sheet for Caw-Blade because they don't want it to be banned (not saying it will be, but with all the talk of banning, they are scared).
Someone already thought of this and people have stared a thread. Good luck, but i don't see this succeeding without, you guessed it, Jace.
The only stoneforge deck that made top 16 there was one that has Jace.
Like i said before, Jace might not be the only reason it pushes Caw-Blade to Tier 0, but it sure has hell wouldn't be Tier 0 without Jace. Again, is Caw-Blade a good deck without Jace? YEA IT IS. Is it bonkers with Jace? UM YEA. I don't get why people underplay Jace like he doesn't do ☺☺☺☺. HE DOES SO MUCH, I don't get how people can deny that.
Now lets look at the other decks there.
UG Vine, Hey Jace.
RUG Control, Hey Jace.
Pyromancer Ascension, Yo Watap Jace.
UW Control, Damn i'm seeing you around a lot bro.
So there are in total 4 decks in a top 16 that didn't have Jace. None of those 4 decks were even close to top 8'ing. And you guessed it, the top 8, all has Jace.
Like seriously, do you SERIOUSLY think that Caw-Blade would be curb-stomping top 8's without Jace? I'll say it again. Jace might not be the only reason Caw-Blade is Tier 0, BUT IT SURE AS HELL WOULDN'T BE THERE WITHOUT JACE.
That said, to some extent I will agree that it is also because of Valakut that Caw-Blade is so rampant, but nowhere near as responsible as Jace is. He IS that good. The undisputed BEST CARD in standard MAKES DECKS BETTER. He warps the format around him. Thats also a fact.
Yea, if you want to make the best deck, then why wouldn't you? I never said that Caw Blade wasn't tier 0. As a matter of fact, i think i said it was in Tier God...
So I don't know where you were going with that...
Jace alone might not be what pushes Caw-Blade over the top but I think I can say with some certainty that without Jace, Caw-Blade wouldn't be Tier 0. Will it still be Tier 1? Probably.
I think Damaja put it nicely, but if you need it simplified, i will since you obv have a reading comprehension problem.
Now this is as simplified as I could make it, hope you can understand it.
Caw Blade = Tier 1
Caw Blade + Jace = Tier 0
Aren't I such a nice guy
Geth's Verdict is just a 1 for 1, one that requires some effort to hit the one you want.
That said, I'm not sure if you can say that gatekeeper is "better" since they both their own advantages. But I can understand why some people would play him over GV.
Cmon lets face facts, it's because of Jace, that Caw Blade is in a tier of it's own. I mean Caw Blade is a good deck by itself, but with Jace, it gets ridiculous.