So what I get is that most of you are sceptical about it. I'm curious how it plays out in practice. The strongest argument against it is of course getting your land killed by removal but again, that's is the absolutely worst case. The more control-y decks might not even care that much I can imagine, as they still have the wall which blocks everything without evasion like a boss. This might give them already enough time to recover.
As I couldn't find anything about it in the Oath thread:
Did anyone try Wall of Resurgence? I didn't have the opportunity yet but it looks awesome. Worst case scenario is your turn 3 land gets killed, best case you have a 3/3 haste for 3 mana. In any case with a 0/6 Defender. Also synergy with blink and bounce.
Rationale: I finally removed all mana rocks beside Sol Ring and Ingot. The reason for the latter one to stay is only because of its indestructibility, making it endure the ever prominent board wipes.
I expect Grasp to be a overcosted Sol Ring most of the times, which is the worst case. Later on it may be all kind of useful stuff: Duplicant, Mind's Eye, Gilded Lotus and so on come to mind. I'm curious how that one pans out, both its flexibility and its potential to act on much needed early ramp raise high expectations.
I would of course only play RB creatures if they came with the same effects provided by the creatures I run. As is, Redcap is the only one I found to be sufficient. Tymaret for example brings no relevant effect beside being being a cheap RB creature. I would play Reassembling Skeleton long before him.
Goblin Bombardment and Gravecrawler were both in the deck at times. The effect of Goblin Bombardment was just too weak for my taste. It is cool that it allows to sacrifice for free but that's about it. I could be persuaded to give it a try again given some good arguments.
Gravecrawler is good indeed, being on the same level as Nether Traitor manawise. Its restriction of having to have a zombie in play however puts major constraints on the deck design because there are not enough zombies I want to play. That was a hard one to let go.
Have you ever considered adding in an infinite black/red mana combo, so you can use lyzolda as a win-con? Since you can sac herself you can spam-cast her from the command zone, shocking + drawing into your deck.
If you are interested I have a semi-focused dragon list you can take a peak at. My list is kinda dumbed down as I wanted a rakdos-theme deck. The most important thing to remember is that running the dragon and this combo won't really impact the rest of your decklist. The dragon's enablers (animate dead/necromancy/dance of the dead) are all generically good in your style of deck, and the alternate win-cons for the dragon can be stuffed into your lands, as well as other generically good EDH cards (staff of nin ftw!).
The dragon combo is delicate and easily answered tho, but good since in your strategy the dragon will be the only dead card out of the combo parts when drawn. There are other infinite mana combo's you could run, but this is the easiest for your style of deck.
For multiplayer it is hard to run strait for the combo and hope not to get your board exiled, but it is nice to have it as an emergency back-up plan.
No I haven't really considered it and you make a good point. I also had a version of the deck that included all of the mentioned reanimate effects because they allow you not only the reanimate your own stuff but also haymakers from opponents graveyards. The reason they are not included anymore is missing synergy: most of my creatures are rather small and serve the overall purpose of being efficient fodder for sacrifices. I also feel I rather want to have a creature able to play than having to rely on them being in the gravecard, a ressource that is easier to attack than cards in hand. So all of the infinite combos I'm aware need cards that are useles outside of the combo, which is not something I'm keen on. Save Mikaeus:
I dunno if you've ever considered Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, but he should probably be in your list somewhere. The synergy with your general is obvious, but can also allow for some cleaner kills, with either pump or combo.
I did run Mikaeus as well, for quite some time actually (1-2 years?) : ) I think he basically is the best creature to combo kill with such a list. Now, this may sound weird, but he always felt both win more and too expensive. The thing is that he is absurd when you already have good board, but much less so if you do not. He really is not that impressive on his own, whereas Grave Titan, Abhorrent Overlord and Butcher of Malakir give me an immediate impact. Yeah but it feels still somehow wrong, I mean he seems such a good fit on paper. I'm torn right now : )
Welcome to my Lyzolda thread. I put my list out here, for myself as reference and for others that also swing with the sacrifice queen. Feel free to comment and criticise.
Deck History
This deck is actually one of my very oldest, I'm playing it for several years now and it has a long history of evolution, also with various commanders at the helm. As Lyzolda took over the lead, the deck wasn't about her at all. The deck was basically an unfocused BR control deck with her as some kind of overpriced card draw. Of course, her ability is just asking to build around, which led to the inclusion of reccuring creatures such as Bloodghast and Nether Traitor. To further exploit all the sacrificing that happened with those, cards that profit from sacrificing creatures entered the picture i.e. Grave Pact and friends. From there on it was still a long journey to its current form, where the major theme is all about synergy with sacrificing creatures.
Why you could enjoy this
You will sacrifice creatures. And $hitton at that. If you like to sacrifice creatures for value, this deck is what you are looking for.
This deck loves to abuse Living Death. If you ever had a fling with said card, this deck should make you interested for something more long term.
Lyzolda won't make it easy for you. In fact, you will have to grind hard in order to take the table. If long, drawn-out games are your thing, Lizzy is your girl.
2) By function: (Note that some cards overlap in function and therefore are listed twice. If a card's main function is actually different, it is listed in parenthesis. Parts are listed by increasing cost.)
A lot of people here keep on bringing up the issue of time. Personally, I don't think that this is much of an issue as long as you know how to play the deck correctly. As soon as the lock is established, I usually do not need more than a couple of seconds for my turn (play a land or play a codex shredder for instance). The same is of course true for the opponent because, as is the nature of the deck, he doesn't draw anything relevant. So the only stuff happening that consumes time is basically shuffling by fetch lands and arranging the top of both libraries at the end of the opponents turn.
I also rarely win by milling, as I'm running the full set of galvanic blasts. After having around four mill pieces I kill most opponents easily over the course of a couple of turns. Again, this doesn't use a lot of time, it actually is simply going through the motions once the lock is in place.
Hey y'all, I didn't post for some months due to not having time for playtesting. Last sunday, however, I found time to pay a visit to the local PPTQ to finally run my favorite deck again. 30 players showed up.
SB:
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Spellskite
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
My tournament went as follows:
R1 - URg Exarch Twin
Nothing special happened, a good match up in my experience as well because hand disruption and the permanent control attacks them on multiple angles. The first round went on for long as he didn't want to concede, second game went to time.
Win 1-0-1
Overall 1-0
R2 - UW Polymorph Tokens
Never played against the deck before. G1 I picked his hand apart by multiple discard spells, established the lock and he conceded after a drawing nothing more relevant. G2 I forgot to ghostquarter his Windbrisk Heights, let him attack, what allowed him to polymorph into an Emrakul off of Heights. I digged for bridge with my mill artifacts but couldn't find one. Sacced lantern during upkeep to shuffle my library and drew... Ensnaring Bridge, lucky me!! Had an ruins to get back lantern and thats all he wrote.
Win 2-0
Overall 2-0
R3 - Grixis Control
G1 was over quickly, he scooped soon after I had the lock. G2 he opened with a Leyline of the Void but nothing much else, which allowed me to still establish the lock. Milled him out afterwards.
Win 2-0
Overall 3-0
R4 - Affinity
Don't remember the details, I managed to win one while he took the other two games.
Lose 1-2
Overall 3-1
R5 - Naya Zoo?
Lost both games quickly against two aggressive starts with Goblin Guides ans Swiftspears.
Lose 0-2
Overall 3-2
Luckily, all of the three players which had 7 points lost their round, while I still had the best tie breakers, which put me on eight place. On to top 8:
Quarters: Affinity again, same guy as in R4
Again not much that I can recall. His starts are not the fastest which allow me to get into the game, G2 I keep a hand with Ancient Grudge, Wear // Tear and removal and just destroy every threat he lands until I naturally draw into the lock.
Win 2-0?
Semis: Living End
G1 I manage to drop a Bridge on each turn 3 and 4, which he cannot overcome. G2 I have the lock down on turn 3 and he never proceeds to get out of it.
Win 2-0
Final: Bogles
A dream match up in my mind. I know what he is on and keep a hand which gives me Ensnaring Bridge on turn 3. Win... G2 he creates a giant monster, destroys my bridge with Nature's Claim and kills me. G3 he has to mull down to 5 while I have a quick lock into bridge.
Win 2-1
I'm still very comfortable with my version of the deck. Ghirapur Aether Grid was a test, it didn't really at all during the tournament, I also boarded it out a couple of times against the faster creature decks because it felt somewhat clunky. Not really sure if needed as of now, Galvanic Blast still seems at least on par. The thing is, against the quicker creature decks I rather want Blast, while against control or midrange I feel Grid is not really needed? Still on the fence about this one.
The rest of the deck felt fine, especially the main is very solid for me.
Burn is definitely unfavourable G1. However, unfavourable of course doesn't mean you absolutely cannot win it. To me, it is a pretty exciting match up, because if you manage to win G1, it's usually by the skin of one's teeth.
G2 is much better. I board in a whoppin 7 cards, consisting of 4 Leylines and 3 Spellskites. Both are very hard for them to beat and I feel that the odds even out a lot after SB.
Crucible allows to repeatedly nuke enemy lands. In my experience it's strongest against utility lands like the Tron- or manlands. Sometimes I'm able to cut someone off of a colour, this however mostly for spells needing two colored mana.
To really profit as a search engine for basics you have to run enough of them, which I don't see happening, at least in my build.
So..to me it's strong against control decks and tron, both are aleady good match-ups. Maybe you want to run one in the board? Against aggro and combo it's pretty useless imo.
This isn't easy pick the correct one. Both have their merits against different decks. Inquisition of course is mostly relevant against Snapcaster, which is its main selling point for me. It can also hit annoying creatues like Thalia or whatever random dude they might have as target in their hand. Duress on the other hand basically hits everything relevant beside Snapcaster. Cryptic Command, Scapeshift, Creeping Corrosion, Through the Breach, Hive Mind, Splinter Twin, cmc4+ planeswalker, Shattering Spree, Gifts Ungiven can all be back breaking. So to me it's not only a decision between Snapcaster and Cryptic as targets, escpecially after sideboarding. Furthermore, the decks deals with creatues extremely well, so the clause that Duress doesn't allow to choose creatures is negligible in my opinion. So far, I'm perfectly happy with Duress and therefore never felt the need to test out Inquisition.
Not being able to discard cards with Loothing:
It actually came up a couple of times after I made the change from Looting to Tutor that I lost games because of not being able to get rid of my cards in hand fast enough for Bridge. However, after being aware of this and planning ahead accordingly, I cannot remember it being relevant once. The only case where this is problematic is Thoughtseize in the burn matchup, which is a liability. However, I can totally see the usefulness of Looting, I just had too many bad experiences with the card in this deck to further run it.
Pyrite Spellbomb vs. Galvanic Blast:
That's actually something I missed. Have to think about it some more but I might try this out, thanks.
Finding games on cockatrice:
What worked best for me so far is this: Name your game something like "Modern serious 2/3 sb". I regularly get full matches this way. What didn't work out was naming your games "competitive", because your regular narrow-minded netdeck geek with his oh-so-unbeatable-BGx-stocklist will quit within a split of a second after you cast Codex Shredder, complaining that this isn't competitive... sounds familiar?
Some words about card choices:
I have a strong preference for discard, as apparent by the 7 discard spells. To me, the biggest weakness of the deck are the cards in the opponents starting hand, especially artifact removal...yea, what a surprise. Discard not only perfectly deals with all the Abrupt Decays, Maelstrom Pulses, Cryptic Commands and other problematic spells, it also provides information about the match up. I started out with 4 Thoughtseizes, then added 1, 2 and finally 3 Duress and never looked back.
The lifeloss of the Thoughseize made me change the manabase to this configuration. With the two basics, I usually don't have to shock myself. I also went up from 16 to 18 lands, as I felt that I got manascrewed too often with only 16 lands. The 3 Ghost Quarters are really useful against many decks. Beside their obvious applications against Tron and manlands, I use them regularly to let the opponent shuffle their deck.
Faithless Loothing got replaced by Infernal Tutor, which I'm nothing but amazed so far. In this deck, it is easily a Demonic Tutor. Loothing was too often too much card disadvantage, especially after having to take one or two mulligans. Yeah, the flashback is nice, but I found that simply being disciplined with the starting hands, the deck works out fine. I basically keep everything with a Lantern / Ancient Stirring / Infernal Tutor and enough lands and ship everything else with exception against slower decks.
Finally, I run 3 Pyxis, mainly because of one bloody card: Ancient Grudge. It sucks big time not being able to get rid of the effect due to milling and has cost me many a game. Pyxis perfectly solves this, while also being able to exile nasty targets for Snapcaster Mage or Eternal Witness. Yes, you have to exile your own stuff, and it also with cards you absolutely want to draw. However, I never (meaning I can't remember it once..over the course of about 100-200 games) had the situation that this became relevant.
Quick report without too much details because I didn't take notes. If not indicated otherwise, the kill usually was done using Galvanic Blast recursion. I strongly recommend this due to the time constraints in a competitive setting. In my experience, it is much faster than the mill kill, because most opponents alread shocked themself down to 16-18 life, which takes only 4-5 Blasts. These can be done quickly over the course of 10 turns with 6 mana (5 mana to get it back with shredder, 1 to cast it, using the next turn to put shredder back on top with Academy Ruins). If you only have to do this, it can be performed very fast without having to check everything that gets milled and doesn't involve an opponent that needs time to put his cards into the grave.
R1 - URg Twin
G1: He had no clue what I was doing, while my hand disruption quickly revealed that he was on Twin. I managed to quickly establish the lock, while getting rid of potential Splinter Twin targets with Blasts until I found bridge. He kept playing until the kill was apparent and we went for G2.
G2: This was much more drawn out. While I could get rid of his Blood Moon with Decay, he managed to resolve a Keranos. Luckily for me, I already got a Spellskite in play while also having a millpiece, so the god wans't too troublesome. He also found a Lighthouse and began to dig, as time was called. After some consideration, he choose to scoop it, as he couldn't see a route to victory.
R2 - RWg Burn
G1: This was a cool and tense game. Again my opponent never saw the deck before. He started out quickly with a Goblin Guide, a Lavamancer and some burn spells. After dealing with the guide, establishing the lock including a bridge, he was out of burn spells but with an active Lavamancer. I desperately searched for an answer, which I found on the very last possible top with another Galvanic Blast while being on 1 life. After that, he never drew another relevant card and I milled him.
G2: Another quick lock managed to keep him away from relevant cards long enough until I resolved both a Spellskite and a Leyline, after which he scooped it up.
R3: - Mono R control (Snow-covered engine, main deck Blood Moons and Dragons and Koth for the Kill)
G1: We both didn't know each others deck, so this was fun as well. This game was again really drawn out. He disrupted me with a Blood Moon, which changed my plan from Galvanic Blast recursion to the mill kill. The whole game was pretty interesting, as he had a lot of draw 1 artifacts (Mind Stone and Relic of Progenitus) and I had only 2 mill pieces to fight them. However, I finally gathered enough to completely control him out and his deck just didn't have enough ways to deal with our strategy.
G2: This game played out the same way as game basically. He again managed to resolve a Blood Moon, but I could control him long enough until he scooped it up.
R4: RWg Burn
G1: This was rather quick. He had a blazing fast start with Goblin Guide and lots of burn. After killing the guide with blast, he simply casted a Eidolon of the Great Revel and I was dead.
G2: My starting hand after a mulligan to 6 consisted of Leyline, Bridge and 4 lands. I decided that this has buy me enough time until I find the lock. Sadly I just drew crap while he found both a Destructive Revelry and a Smash to Smithereens. After killing the Leyline, he blasted me away over the course of 2 turns with a full grip of burn spells.
R5: Mono Green Stompy
G1: I knew what he was playing from scouting the rounds before, so I looked forward to this game because his deck doesnt have any way to interact with bridge game 1 and I feel that our deck is strongly favored in this match up. However, I simply didn't find the bridge and died quickly to his creature assault.
G2: This was really sketchy. I hold a some mediocre hand with a Thoughtseize and Bridge after a mulligan to 6, but no lockpieces whatsoever. Thoughtseize shows me two Deglamer effects, so the Bridge gets shuffled away quickly and I was dead on the board if I didn't find a bridge in two turns. I then managed to go into the ultimatively lucky top deck mode and drew Ancient Stirrings, which conveniently found me an Ensnaring Bridge, Lantern and a Codex Shredder in row. Wow! After that, he never found another relevant spell.
G3: Can't remember much of this one, I think I deployed a Bridge early and discarded his only artifact removal. After this, he couldn't find replacement before I completely locked him out with Lantern and mill pieces.
Top 8:
Quarters against Scapehift:
G1 looks good for the first part of the game, as I establish a soft lock right from the start. As the game progresses, I still couldn't find more than one or two mill pieces and he manages to find a draw spell on top for two times in a row with a scapeshift as third card, which forces me to sacrifice the lantern, which gives him a blind draw. Turns out it was an Izzet Charm, duuh. He plays it, draws and discards two..pass the turn, phew. I put Lantern back on top with ruins, play it and he reveals Anticipate. I let him shuffle again, another blind draw and he passes the turn back. We were both pretty excited about how the match turned out so far : D I put Lantern again back on top, draw and play it. He counters it with Cryptic! I have to pass the turn back and when he finally managed to find a Scapehift for the win.
G2: I have a fine start with Leyline and the Lantern. Thoughtseize him and see Scapeshift, Snapcaster, Cryptic and mana. I take Scapeshift, which was a mistake that bites me in the ass like 10 turns later. I'm already regretting it after passing the turn, since I was basically safe against his key spell because of the Leyline and Cryptic was his only solution to it. He continues to ramp, while I manage to establish the lock after finding the first couple of mill pieces. As he has about 8 lands in play, he uses his Cryptic to bounce the Leyline. When I proceed to cast it in the next turn, he uses Snapcaster to flash the Command back, countering the Leyline and bouncing Snapcaster. I'm tapped out and have to pass. Of course, he uses the Snapcaster to simply flashback the Scapeshift and I'm dead.
Oh well, at least I had to get to Top 8 to learn something new ; )
- Infernal Tutor: I think everybody agrees that Demonic Tutor is insanely strong. However, the card does not necessarily, and in my experience actually a lot, play out that way. Emptying our hand is crucial for both Ensnaring Bridge and Tutor, and altough the deck mostly consists of cheap spells, I oftentimes find myself having trouble to play out my cards in time to get said spells active. So the question really is if Infernal Tutor functions as Demonic, because if it doesn't I don't want to waste card slots only to double up on whatever random card I have in my hand at the time.
Now, the other aspect is time. If I'm in a tournament setting, time matters a lot for this deck, and therefore I need to find my win condition as fast as possible once I locked my opponent out. While you may convince some opponents to concede once you have 3+ mill effects out, some will refuse. I actually don't know how much this is a problem because I couldn't play in such a setting yet. However, I feel that it doesn't take that long to dig to your win if you play at a good pace, even if it's in the last 10 - 15 cards. You might have to remind your opponent to do the same.
- Burn and other aggressive decks with reach: I think these more or less are bad match ups game 1. Obviously, the more creatures they run the better it is for us. After sb, I actually feel heavily favored, as I run a set of Leylines. This card just shuts burn down. I furthermore play 3 Spellskite, which help out a lot as well and are my choice for spell based artifact hate in other match ups.
- Number of lands: So I started with 15 lands and 4 Opal but felt that I got screwed or too slow hands too often, and now I am at 17 lands and 3 Opal. I feels better altough I even might add yet another land just to be on the safe side. What are your numbers and experiences concerning mana screw?
The longer I play the deck the less I'm drawn to unfocused cards. Right know I'm almost down to a pretty straight core, which includes the lock pieces, the cards to search for those, creature and permanent control, and hand disruption. No life gain, no gimmicky planeswalker, no bullets, no recursion (beside Academy Ruins of course).
The deck is pretty much focused on getting the combo online and exploit both its speed and inevitability.
For reference:
4 Lantern of Insight
3 Codex Shredder
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Opal
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Glimmervoid
2 Academy Ruins
1 Stomping Ground
2 Ghoulcaller's Bell
3 Pithing Needle
4 Faithless Looting
3 Pyroclasm
1 Duskmantle, House of Shadow
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Thoughtseize
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Duress
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Torpor Orb
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
The deck is clearly less competitive without the mox because they provide both speed and color fixing. It might not always be decisive, but there will be times were you lose games and matches because of that.
So if you plan to play this in a tournament or a similar competitive setting I'd definitely try to include them. Otherwise I don't think that they are necessary because the decks works just fine with a cheaper substitute, lands for instance.
Did anyone try Wall of Resurgence? I didn't have the opportunity yet but it looks awesome. Worst case scenario is your turn 3 land gets killed, best case you have a 3/3 haste for 3 mana. In any case with a 0/6 Defender. Also synergy with blink and bounce.
Thoughts?
- Mind Stone
+ Praetor's Grasp
Rationale: I finally removed all mana rocks beside Sol Ring and Ingot. The reason for the latter one to stay is only because of its indestructibility, making it endure the ever prominent board wipes.
I expect Grasp to be a overcosted Sol Ring most of the times, which is the worst case. Later on it may be all kind of useful stuff: Duplicant, Mind's Eye, Gilded Lotus and so on come to mind. I'm curious how that one pans out, both its flexibility and its potential to act on much needed early ramp raise high expectations.
I would of course only play RB creatures if they came with the same effects provided by the creatures I run. As is, Redcap is the only one I found to be sufficient. Tymaret for example brings no relevant effect beside being being a cheap RB creature. I would play Reassembling Skeleton long before him.
Goblin Bombardment and Gravecrawler were both in the deck at times. The effect of Goblin Bombardment was just too weak for my taste. It is cool that it allows to sacrifice for free but that's about it. I could be persuaded to give it a try again given some good arguments.
Gravecrawler is good indeed, being on the same level as Nether Traitor manawise. Its restriction of having to have a zombie in play however puts major constraints on the deck design because there are not enough zombies I want to play. That was a hard one to let go.
No I haven't really considered it and you make a good point. I also had a version of the deck that included all of the mentioned reanimate effects because they allow you not only the reanimate your own stuff but also haymakers from opponents graveyards. The reason they are not included anymore is missing synergy: most of my creatures are rather small and serve the overall purpose of being efficient fodder for sacrifices. I also feel I rather want to have a creature able to play than having to rely on them being in the gravecard, a ressource that is easier to attack than cards in hand. So all of the infinite combos I'm aware need cards that are useles outside of the combo, which is not something I'm keen on. Save Mikaeus:
I did run Mikaeus as well, for quite some time actually (1-2 years?) : ) I think he basically is the best creature to combo kill with such a list. Now, this may sound weird, but he always felt both win more and too expensive. The thing is that he is absurd when you already have good board, but much less so if you do not. He really is not that impressive on his own, whereas Grave Titan, Abhorrent Overlord and Butcher of Malakir give me an immediate impact. Yeah but it feels still somehow wrong, I mean he seems such a good fit on paper. I'm torn right now : )
Welcome to my Lyzolda thread. I put my list out here, for myself as reference and for others that also swing with the sacrifice queen. Feel free to comment and criticise.
Deck History
This deck is actually one of my very oldest, I'm playing it for several years now and it has a long history of evolution, also with various commanders at the helm. As Lyzolda took over the lead, the deck wasn't about her at all. The deck was basically an unfocused BR control deck with her as some kind of overpriced card draw. Of course, her ability is just asking to build around, which led to the inclusion of reccuring creatures such as Bloodghast and Nether Traitor. To further exploit all the sacrificing that happened with those, cards that profit from sacrificing creatures entered the picture i.e. Grave Pact and friends. From there on it was still a long journey to its current form, where the major theme is all about synergy with sacrificing creatures.
Why you could enjoy this
Decklist
1) By type:
3 Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
Creatures (30)
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Viscera Seer
2 Bloodghast
2 Blood Artist
2 Mogg War Marshal
2 Nether Traitor
2 Withered Wretch
2 Zulaport Enforcer
3 Big Game Hunter
3 Burnished Hart
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Ophiomancer
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Falkenrath Noble
4 Sengir Autocrat
4 Smothering Abomination
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Marsh Flitter
4 Murderous Redcap
5 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
5 Ogre Slumlord
5 Puppeteer Clique
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
5 Shriekmaw
6 Grave Titan
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
7 Abhorrent Overlord
7 Butcher of Malakir
1 Expedition Map
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Spawning Pit
2 Sword of the Animist
2 Ashnod's Altar
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Heartstone
Instants
1 Entomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Chaos Warp
3 Hero's Downfall
Sorceries
1 Shattering Spree
2 Demonic Tutor
3 Toxic Deluge
3 Victimize
3 Praetor's Grasp
4 Damnation
5 Living Death
5 Vandalblast
8 Army of the Damned
Enchantments
2 Impact Tremors
3 Dark Prophecy
4 Grave Pact
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
5 Dictate of Erebos
7 Vicious Shadows
0 Arid Mesa
0 Badlands
0 Bloodstained Mire
0 Blood Crypt
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Cabal Coffers
0 Graven Cairns
0 Marsh Flats
3 Mountain
0 Myriad Landscape
0 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
0 Phyrexian Tower
0 Polluted Delta
0 Scalding Tarn
0 Strip Mine
16 Swamp
0 Terrain Generator
0 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0 Verdant Catacombs
0 Wooded Foothills
2) By function: (Note that some cards overlap in function and therefore are listed twice. If a card's main function is actually different, it is listed in parenthesis. Parts are listed by increasing cost.)
0 Cabal Coffers
0 Myriad Landscape
0 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
0 (Phyrexian Tower)
0 Terrain Generator
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
2 Sword of the Animist
2 (Ashnod's Altar)
3 Burnished Hart
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Heartstone
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Solemn Simulacrum
Tutor suite
1 Entomb
1 Expedition Map
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Demonic Tutor
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Cards that allow repeated sacrifices
2 Bloodghast
2 Mogg War Marshal
2 Nether Traitor
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Ophiomancer
4 Sengir Autocrat
4 Marsh Flitter
4 Murderous Redcap
5 Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
5 Ogre Slumlord
5 Puppeteer Clique
6 Grave Titan
7 Abhorrent Overlord
8 Army of the Damned
0 Phyrexian Tower
1 Carrion Feeder
1 Viscera Seer
2 Spawning Pit
2 Ashnod's Altar
EtB or dying triggers
i) Draw
1 Skullclamp
3 Dark Prophecy
4 Smothering Abomination
ii) Drain & Damage
2 Impact Tremors
2 Blood Artist
2 Zulaport Enforcer
4 Falkenrath Noble
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
7 Vicious Shadows
iii) Kill creatures
4 Grave Pact
5 Dictate of Erebos
7 Butcher of Malakir
Creature control
3 Big Game Hunter
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Toxic Deluge
4 Damnation
4 Grave Pact
4 Murderous Redcap
5 Dictate of Erebos
5 Shriekmaw
7 Butcher of Malakir
i) grave hate
0 Bojuka Bog
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Withered Wretch
2 Rakdos Charm
ii) artifact hate
1 Shattering Spree
2 Rakdos Charm
5 Vandalblast
iii) other
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Praetor's Grasp
3 Chaos Warp
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Victimize
5 Puppeteer Clique
Game winning bombs
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
5 Living Death
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
7 Vicious Shadows
Cards under scrutiny
1 Dark Prophecy killed me once
1 Goblin Rabblemaster the 3 creatures over 2 turn should be enough for value
1 Sword of the Animist good enough ramp?
1 Smothering Abomination the fact that it triggers for all my creatures appeals to me
I also rarely win by milling, as I'm running the full set of galvanic blasts. After having around four mill pieces I kill most opponents easily over the course of a couple of turns. Again, this doesn't use a lot of time, it actually is simply going through the motions once the lock is in place.
This is the list I ran:
4 Codex Shredder
3 Pyxis of Pandemonium
1 Ghoulcaller's Bell
3 Galvanic Blast
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle
2 Spellskite
1 Ghirapur AEther Grid
3 Duress
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Infernal Tutor
4 Mox Opal
4 Glimmervoid
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Academy Ruins
SB:
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Spellskite
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
My tournament went as follows:
R1 - URg Exarch Twin
Nothing special happened, a good match up in my experience as well because hand disruption and the permanent control attacks them on multiple angles. The first round went on for long as he didn't want to concede, second game went to time.
Win 1-0-1
Overall 1-0
R2 - UW Polymorph Tokens
Never played against the deck before. G1 I picked his hand apart by multiple discard spells, established the lock and he conceded after a drawing nothing more relevant. G2 I forgot to ghostquarter his Windbrisk Heights, let him attack, what allowed him to polymorph into an Emrakul off of Heights. I digged for bridge with my mill artifacts but couldn't find one. Sacced lantern during upkeep to shuffle my library and drew... Ensnaring Bridge, lucky me!! Had an ruins to get back lantern and thats all he wrote.
Win 2-0
Overall 2-0
R3 - Grixis Control
G1 was over quickly, he scooped soon after I had the lock. G2 he opened with a Leyline of the Void but nothing much else, which allowed me to still establish the lock. Milled him out afterwards.
Win 2-0
Overall 3-0
R4 - Affinity
Don't remember the details, I managed to win one while he took the other two games.
Lose 1-2
Overall 3-1
R5 - Naya Zoo?
Lost both games quickly against two aggressive starts with Goblin Guides ans Swiftspears.
Lose 0-2
Overall 3-2
Luckily, all of the three players which had 7 points lost their round, while I still had the best tie breakers, which put me on eight place. On to top 8:
Quarters: Affinity again, same guy as in R4
Again not much that I can recall. His starts are not the fastest which allow me to get into the game, G2 I keep a hand with Ancient Grudge, Wear // Tear and removal and just destroy every threat he lands until I naturally draw into the lock.
Win 2-0?
Semis: Living End
G1 I manage to drop a Bridge on each turn 3 and 4, which he cannot overcome. G2 I have the lock down on turn 3 and he never proceeds to get out of it.
Win 2-0
Final: Bogles
A dream match up in my mind. I know what he is on and keep a hand which gives me Ensnaring Bridge on turn 3. Win... G2 he creates a giant monster, destroys my bridge with Nature's Claim and kills me. G3 he has to mull down to 5 while I have a quick lock into bridge.
Win 2-1
I'm still very comfortable with my version of the deck. Ghirapur Aether Grid was a test, it didn't really at all during the tournament, I also boarded it out a couple of times against the faster creature decks because it felt somewhat clunky. Not really sure if needed as of now, Galvanic Blast still seems at least on par. The thing is, against the quicker creature decks I rather want Blast, while against control or midrange I feel Grid is not really needed? Still on the fence about this one.
The rest of the deck felt fine, especially the main is very solid for me.
G2 is much better. I board in a whoppin 7 cards, consisting of 4 Leylines and 3 Spellskites. Both are very hard for them to beat and I feel that the odds even out a lot after SB.
To really profit as a search engine for basics you have to run enough of them, which I don't see happening, at least in my build.
So..to me it's strong against control decks and tron, both are aleady good match-ups. Maybe you want to run one in the board? Against aggro and combo it's pretty useless imo.
Took the deck to a PPTQ on sunday with 15-20 players going 4-1.
For reference, my current list:
4 Codex Shredder
3 Pyxis of Pandemonium
1 Ghoulcaller's Bell
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Infernal Tutor
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Mox Opal
4 Glimmervoid
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Academy Ruins
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wear // Tear
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pyroclasm
3 Spellskite
Some words about card choices:
I have a strong preference for discard, as apparent by the 7 discard spells. To me, the biggest weakness of the deck are the cards in the opponents starting hand, especially artifact removal...yea, what a surprise. Discard not only perfectly deals with all the Abrupt Decays, Maelstrom Pulses, Cryptic Commands and other problematic spells, it also provides information about the match up. I started out with 4 Thoughtseizes, then added 1, 2 and finally 3 Duress and never looked back.
The lifeloss of the Thoughseize made me change the manabase to this configuration. With the two basics, I usually don't have to shock myself. I also went up from 16 to 18 lands, as I felt that I got manascrewed too often with only 16 lands. The 3 Ghost Quarters are really useful against many decks. Beside their obvious applications against Tron and manlands, I use them regularly to let the opponent shuffle their deck.
Faithless Loothing got replaced by Infernal Tutor, which I'm nothing but amazed so far. In this deck, it is easily a Demonic Tutor. Loothing was too often too much card disadvantage, especially after having to take one or two mulligans. Yeah, the flashback is nice, but I found that simply being disciplined with the starting hands, the deck works out fine. I basically keep everything with a Lantern / Ancient Stirring / Infernal Tutor and enough lands and ship everything else with exception against slower decks.
Finally, I run 3 Pyxis, mainly because of one bloody card: Ancient Grudge. It sucks big time not being able to get rid of the effect due to milling and has cost me many a game. Pyxis perfectly solves this, while also being able to exile nasty targets for Snapcaster Mage or Eternal Witness. Yes, you have to exile your own stuff, and it also with cards you absolutely want to draw. However, I never (meaning I can't remember it once..over the course of about 100-200 games) had the situation that this became relevant.
Quick report without too much details because I didn't take notes. If not indicated otherwise, the kill usually was done using Galvanic Blast recursion. I strongly recommend this due to the time constraints in a competitive setting. In my experience, it is much faster than the mill kill, because most opponents alread shocked themself down to 16-18 life, which takes only 4-5 Blasts. These can be done quickly over the course of 10 turns with 6 mana (5 mana to get it back with shredder, 1 to cast it, using the next turn to put shredder back on top with Academy Ruins). If you only have to do this, it can be performed very fast without having to check everything that gets milled and doesn't involve an opponent that needs time to put his cards into the grave.
R1 - URg Twin
G1: He had no clue what I was doing, while my hand disruption quickly revealed that he was on Twin. I managed to quickly establish the lock, while getting rid of potential Splinter Twin targets with Blasts until I found bridge. He kept playing until the kill was apparent and we went for G2.
G2: This was much more drawn out. While I could get rid of his Blood Moon with Decay, he managed to resolve a Keranos. Luckily for me, I already got a Spellskite in play while also having a millpiece, so the god wans't too troublesome. He also found a Lighthouse and began to dig, as time was called. After some consideration, he choose to scoop it, as he couldn't see a route to victory.
R2 - RWg Burn
G1: This was a cool and tense game. Again my opponent never saw the deck before. He started out quickly with a Goblin Guide, a Lavamancer and some burn spells. After dealing with the guide, establishing the lock including a bridge, he was out of burn spells but with an active Lavamancer. I desperately searched for an answer, which I found on the very last possible top with another Galvanic Blast while being on 1 life. After that, he never drew another relevant card and I milled him.
G2: Another quick lock managed to keep him away from relevant cards long enough until I resolved both a Spellskite and a Leyline, after which he scooped it up.
R3: - Mono R control (Snow-covered engine, main deck Blood Moons and Dragons and Koth for the Kill)
G1: We both didn't know each others deck, so this was fun as well. This game was again really drawn out. He disrupted me with a Blood Moon, which changed my plan from Galvanic Blast recursion to the mill kill. The whole game was pretty interesting, as he had a lot of draw 1 artifacts (Mind Stone and Relic of Progenitus) and I had only 2 mill pieces to fight them. However, I finally gathered enough to completely control him out and his deck just didn't have enough ways to deal with our strategy.
G2: This game played out the same way as game basically. He again managed to resolve a Blood Moon, but I could control him long enough until he scooped it up.
R4: RWg Burn
G1: This was rather quick. He had a blazing fast start with Goblin Guide and lots of burn. After killing the guide with blast, he simply casted a Eidolon of the Great Revel and I was dead.
G2: My starting hand after a mulligan to 6 consisted of Leyline, Bridge and 4 lands. I decided that this has buy me enough time until I find the lock. Sadly I just drew crap while he found both a Destructive Revelry and a Smash to Smithereens. After killing the Leyline, he blasted me away over the course of 2 turns with a full grip of burn spells.
R5: Mono Green Stompy
G1: I knew what he was playing from scouting the rounds before, so I looked forward to this game because his deck doesnt have any way to interact with bridge game 1 and I feel that our deck is strongly favored in this match up. However, I simply didn't find the bridge and died quickly to his creature assault.
G2: This was really sketchy. I hold a some mediocre hand with a Thoughtseize and Bridge after a mulligan to 6, but no lockpieces whatsoever. Thoughtseize shows me two Deglamer effects, so the Bridge gets shuffled away quickly and I was dead on the board if I didn't find a bridge in two turns. I then managed to go into the ultimatively lucky top deck mode and drew Ancient Stirrings, which conveniently found me an Ensnaring Bridge, Lantern and a Codex Shredder in row. Wow! After that, he never found another relevant spell.
G3: Can't remember much of this one, I think I deployed a Bridge early and discarded his only artifact removal. After this, he couldn't find replacement before I completely locked him out with Lantern and mill pieces.
Top 8:
Quarters against Scapehift:
G1 looks good for the first part of the game, as I establish a soft lock right from the start. As the game progresses, I still couldn't find more than one or two mill pieces and he manages to find a draw spell on top for two times in a row with a scapeshift as third card, which forces me to sacrifice the lantern, which gives him a blind draw. Turns out it was an Izzet Charm, duuh. He plays it, draws and discards two..pass the turn, phew. I put Lantern back on top with ruins, play it and he reveals Anticipate. I let him shuffle again, another blind draw and he passes the turn back. We were both pretty excited about how the match turned out so far : D I put Lantern again back on top, draw and play it. He counters it with Cryptic! I have to pass the turn back and when he finally managed to find a Scapehift for the win.
G2: I have a fine start with Leyline and the Lantern. Thoughtseize him and see Scapeshift, Snapcaster, Cryptic and mana. I take Scapeshift, which was a mistake that bites me in the ass like 10 turns later. I'm already regretting it after passing the turn, since I was basically safe against his key spell because of the Leyline and Cryptic was his only solution to it. He continues to ramp, while I manage to establish the lock after finding the first couple of mill pieces. As he has about 8 lands in play, he uses his Cryptic to bounce the Leyline. When I proceed to cast it in the next turn, he uses Snapcaster to flash the Command back, countering the Leyline and bouncing Snapcaster. I'm tapped out and have to pass. Of course, he uses the Snapcaster to simply flashback the Scapeshift and I'm dead.
Oh well, at least I had to get to Top 8 to learn something new ; )
- Infernal Tutor: I think everybody agrees that Demonic Tutor is insanely strong. However, the card does not necessarily, and in my experience actually a lot, play out that way. Emptying our hand is crucial for both Ensnaring Bridge and Tutor, and altough the deck mostly consists of cheap spells, I oftentimes find myself having trouble to play out my cards in time to get said spells active. So the question really is if Infernal Tutor functions as Demonic, because if it doesn't I don't want to waste card slots only to double up on whatever random card I have in my hand at the time.
Now, the other aspect is time. If I'm in a tournament setting, time matters a lot for this deck, and therefore I need to find my win condition as fast as possible once I locked my opponent out. While you may convince some opponents to concede once you have 3+ mill effects out, some will refuse. I actually don't know how much this is a problem because I couldn't play in such a setting yet. However, I feel that it doesn't take that long to dig to your win if you play at a good pace, even if it's in the last 10 - 15 cards. You might have to remind your opponent to do the same.
- Burn and other aggressive decks with reach: I think these more or less are bad match ups game 1. Obviously, the more creatures they run the better it is for us. After sb, I actually feel heavily favored, as I run a set of Leylines. This card just shuts burn down. I furthermore play 3 Spellskite, which help out a lot as well and are my choice for spell based artifact hate in other match ups.
- Number of lands: So I started with 15 lands and 4 Opal but felt that I got screwed or too slow hands too often, and now I am at 17 lands and 3 Opal. I feels better altough I even might add yet another land just to be on the safe side. What are your numbers and experiences concerning mana screw?
The longer I play the deck the less I'm drawn to unfocused cards. Right know I'm almost down to a pretty straight core, which includes the lock pieces, the cards to search for those, creature and permanent control, and hand disruption. No life gain, no gimmicky planeswalker, no bullets, no recursion (beside Academy Ruins of course).
The deck is pretty much focused on getting the combo online and exploit both its speed and inevitability.
For reference:
4 Lantern of Insight
3 Codex Shredder
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Opal
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Glimmervoid
2 Academy Ruins
1 Stomping Ground
2 Ghoulcaller's Bell
3 Pithing Needle
4 Faithless Looting
3 Pyroclasm
1 Duskmantle, House of Shadow
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Thoughtseize
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Pyxis of Pandemonium
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Duress
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Torpor Orb
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 3 Spellskite
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
So if you plan to play this in a tournament or a similar competitive setting I'd definitely try to include them. Otherwise I don't think that they are necessary because the decks works just fine with a cheaper substitute, lands for instance.
Walkerdog wins 2 - 1, ggs : >