K after rereading Silver, Silvers scum game is almost indistinguishable from his Town game or hes town.
Shadow is therefore scum.
Or Vaimes is next leveling the next level of next level.
Except I'm not. And the whole point against me is that despite feeling town, I also felt town in barebones whilst being scum.
We have no idea what Scum!silver might do. We do know that you have done wacky shenanigans as scum, why should I believe you're town over silver?
Did anyone else actually read my post? I feel ignored :/
I did, Osie is scum, your plan is pretty decent except I'm back on the fence regarding Silver, but I'd yes vote a quest with him so long as it didn't also have DV, because I'm not going to figure them out without another quests worth of info.
Dear Proph,
What would you have expected from me other than what I've posted that would make you think I was town? Cause I am, and both DV and silver cannot be.
Pbbbt. I don't want or need to pocket you. I just want to know why you think shadow is so townie.
Like, in a vacuum, I wouldn't think he's super likely to be scum.
But the fact is, one of the four of us is.
It's not me, and it's not Vaimes.
It's ~probably not you based on your reaction to Vaimes' counterclaim and my post about being mad at you.
Therefore by process of elimination....
In fact. Can anyone tell me what makes shadow townie?
Because in absence of a good town case I'm just going to assume he's scum.
He's done nothing outside of his scum range.
Nothing.
Go read some of BareBones if you don't believe me.
No, I haven't done anything outside of my scum range, but quite frankly, I made a pretty wide range for myself (seriously, just for fun reading, barebones is a great game to check out). Besides, a good town case couldn't be made for a lot of people who have actually flipped town in various games, yet you just self admitted that I'm not super likely to be scum except for PoE, so which is it; am I scum because you're townreading DV harder, or because there is no good case for me being town? Heck, even a really good case for me being town isn't something you'd lean on here, you yourself made an excellent town case for me in Barebones.
I kind of like Osi's plan and shadow's aggressive rejection of it makes me feel even better. But ultimately the quest proposal falls to Cantrip.
On the other hand I'm not a fan of shadow's last post at all. It reads like he's desperately trying to get one-for-one'd by anybody instead of figuring out which of me and D_V is scum.
@D_V: What did you like about it? It's logical, sure, but scum!logic isn't necessarily bad logic.
Do you not find it weird that Osie went from hard townreading me to scum reading me and yet still not being sure about DV? And what part about my waffling between you and DV since quest 2 failed has seemed like I am not trying to figure out the two of you?
God after that Shadow post I don't know who I trust anymore.
Ugh.
Why can't this game be easy.
DV, this makes absolutely no sense, Vaimes is town, which means that either you or silver is scum, meaning I'm going to be looking at both of you, yet you come in here and shade me for doing exactly what makes sense for me to do, without solidly calling me scum, when if you were town, you'd know it was either me or silver. Your post is just fence sitting. "I don't know who to trust anymore." Gimme a break, you sound super fake.
Sorry Vaimes, but I had hoped my #238 made it clear a Percival counter-claim should come before the first quest. If D_V had dug in, this situation would be even more of a mess right now.
No, if DV had dug in, we'd have a clean 1 for 1 and silver and I would be on the next quest. As it stands, DV backing out means Vaimes goes on the next quest and the rest of the 3 of us have to sort it out. Fortunately, I think Silver has played solidly enough that it's down to a dichotomy between DV and I, but he won't be lock clear until he's on a quest that passes.
Shadow, could you elaborate on what scum gain by passing the first quest? You talked about it in #59 but I don't see what value they get by passing the first quest and failing a later one they are on that they don't get by just failing the first one.
The waters get muddier with more people on the quest. Passing quest 1 gives everyone on that quest some leeway, and if Vaimes hadn't been the actual Percy, then it would be a much worse cluster of crap to deal with.
@Rhand: I've been maintaining a post-by-post readlist on my own with leans scum or town since I stayed up and went post-by-post. It got relatively solidified.
And I've been your top town read since literally your first mention of your T/S list.
Rhand, Cantrip, Silver, and Vaimes cleared themselves pretty well.
Of these 4 names, There is almost assuredly 1 scum, cantrip gets my vote currently.
Shadow, Mindreaver, Brinatoo, and RSJT are all scum.
Now I'm scum? If you were town, you'd have a little more doubt about the DV/me dichotomy. Also Mindreaver is scum? Wut?
I think despite all the shade being thrown on me on this last page, I've relatively cleared my name.
Because you've actively spouted metaphor nonsense and lead a wild goose chase through old posts cryptically? Sure, being cryptic this game is a solid plan, but it's far and away from "clearing your name"
Proph is looking pretty good, though isn't a definite. I'm still not certain on D_V and AG, but it doesn't matter;
What?!? First off, yes, it absolutely matters, second you aren't sure on DV but now have me as lock scum? No, the biggest reason I'm being pointed to as scum right now is because there is a dichotomy between him and I. Please explain exactly how you figure I'm scum if it's not because you believe DV is town.
Q3 only requires 5/7 town to pass, and if it doesn't pass we can then pass Q4 with 5/7 town. Q5 requires 6/7 town to pass. But at that point we've solidified 6 people.
This is just nonsense, If we get to Quest 5, that means we have categorically not solidified 6 people at all!
Here's the thing: Even if for some reason you want to assume my reads are just wrong enough that this will miss either Q4 or Q5 by two votes, you can adjust to remove me from the picture by trusting D_V and AtheistGod.
You don't even trust them, but we should if we don't trust you? That's not how it works, if people don't trust me, then I want them to at least trust my top town read.
But if I were you, I would not make that adjustment until we've at least tried my proposed Q3. I expect it passes with flying colors, or fails with exactly 1 vote (though I doubt that this will be the case). But heck, let's say you don't trust me. But you probably trust D_V. You can replace me with D_V on Q3.
If it passes, then you can have D_V propose my proposed pass-situation Q4 with AG in place of me.
If there's one fail on Q3, you can replace me in my proposed fail-situation Q4 with D_V.
If there's two fails on Q3, you can also replace Proph with AtheistGod.
On Q5, which we only get to if exactly one of Q3/Q4 fails, you have your 6 town votes be Vaimes, Rhand, Cantrip, Silver, D_V, and whoever you trust most out of Proph and AG. If you don't trust either one of them or me by that point, scum wins.
"Blah blah blah trust these scum buddies of mine that I won't openly trust, it's k"
If necessary, I can go through the entire logic, but I think that this is more than enough explanation. Oh, and I'm Merlin.
No, I'm Merlin, it's bad enough that you're scum, now you're stealing my identity?
Osie is scum guys, like hardcore, scream it at the top of your lungs scum. Oh, and JoeTerry might even be town, I'll get back to you on that.
Hmm, I don't think I'm as far down the rabbit hole as I thought, but that's okay. So here is where I'm at: there is guaranteed scum between Vaimes/DV/Silver. So let's take Vaimes out, he is now the claimed Percy without a counter claim. Okay, so one of DV or Silver is scum. Now I thought DV's reaction to Vaimes' claim made him seem townie, but what I didn't take into account was that his reaction is exactly the one that scum should do as well, because it casts doubt on silver and me, who would be clear. Despite saying he wanted to take both me and him out of future quests, he gains a lot of goodwill doing that, and can get back into quests whereas he previously wouldn't. I jumped on Silver for this reason, despite an entire games worth of high quality, townie mentality. Also, Silver is strongly town reading and DV, and since they both can't be town together, Occam's razor pushes me to believe the easier truth, that DV is scum that made a ridiculous play, simply because "no scum would make that play" (see unreliable cops Mafia for a good example of this, DV framed his own Godfather partner and helped him sail to victory). I retract my desire to take silver out and send DV on quests and reverse that. Put Silver on quests, leave DV out.
I think it's likely that iso would have made the kill were he scum, both for everyone's reads and my personal assessment of him, which means that by targetting him and getting a kill anyway, I get to remove him from my list of potential scum atm. This will then be helpful to the town with my flip.
I don't agree with your assertion that Iso would have been the most likely person to pull the trigger.
Iso/hunt - sure, hunt was busy targeting cantrip with chat (unless he can do both, but that seems unlikely in a normal)
Iso/fulcrum - doesn't matter
Iso/meteor - meteor absolutely pulls the trigger here, far more townread.
Iso/Rhand - iso here, Rhand was jailed.
Iso/cantrip - same thing as meteor, cantrip is way more townread.
So if we assume 2 remaining scum, iso cannot be partners with hunt/Rhand because of the nightkill, but he can be with you/meteor/cantrip. Even if we throw out you, your statement that he would have been more likely to perform the NK is inaccurate, because it's still 50/50 for who he could have been partners with going into last night.
Pretty sure Rhand at least was townreading cantrip and meteor more than iso. Also, he should be concerned about my reads, as I'm the one with the roleblock, and I stated a slight townread of kitty based on zomg spew and gave no real reads of cantrip and meteor.
What does Rhand have to do with what I said? I'm confused.
Ultimately it isn't my decision, but if scum!shadow wants to one-for-one me I guess that's fine. I don't actually think that's good for town, because it basically means we're sending two and three unknowns instead of three and two unknowns and I would rather not just be put on a bench because the consensus is that it's either me or him, especially when my alignment should be blindly obvious to anyone reading, but. Not my decision so I guess I'll abide by the consensus.
This post basically only comes from scum. Yay I caught silver on his first scum game. I've bolded the important parts here, basically, silver wants to just assume I'm scum and send and irresponsible quest team based on the quest 2 failure. And he's "abiding by a consensus" that hasn't even weighed in yet except for me saying I was trading myself for him.
For goodness sakes I'm not trying to pocket you!
You are now the sole claimed Percy, and DV's reaction indicates that he's actually town. Which means both of you should be on every quest, and silver is scum, so me taking both him and I out of the equation is a net gain for town.
DV's decision to 1 for 1 with me tells me he's (irritatingly) town, because scum!DV here would go for silver. And now Vaimes gets to be Percy, and false Merlin silver gets to join real Merlin me on the sidelines of never going on a quest.
We have no idea what Scum!silver might do. We do know that you have done wacky shenanigans as scum, why should I believe you're town over silver?
I did, Osie is scum, your plan is pretty decent except I'm back on the fence regarding Silver, but I'd yes vote a quest with him so long as it didn't also have DV, because I'm not going to figure them out without another quests worth of info.
What would you have expected from me other than what I've posted that would make you think I was town? Cause I am, and both DV and silver cannot be.
No, if DV had dug in, we'd have a clean 1 for 1 and silver and I would be on the next quest. As it stands, DV backing out means Vaimes goes on the next quest and the rest of the 3 of us have to sort it out. Fortunately, I think Silver has played solidly enough that it's down to a dichotomy between DV and I, but he won't be lock clear until he's on a quest that passes.
The waters get muddier with more people on the quest. Passing quest 1 gives everyone on that quest some leeway, and if Vaimes hadn't been the actual Percy, then it would be a much worse cluster of crap to deal with.
And I've been your top town read since literally your first mention of your T/S list.
Of these 4 names, There is almost assuredly 1 scum, cantrip gets my vote currently. Now I'm scum? If you were town, you'd have a little more doubt about the DV/me dichotomy. Also Mindreaver is scum? Wut?Because you've actively spouted metaphor nonsense and lead a wild goose chase through old posts cryptically? Sure, being cryptic this game is a solid plan, but it's far and away from "clearing your name" What?!? First off, yes, it absolutely matters, second you aren't sure on DV but now have me as lock scum? No, the biggest reason I'm being pointed to as scum right now is because there is a dichotomy between him and I. Please explain exactly how you figure I'm scum if it's not because you believe DV is town. This is just nonsense, If we get to Quest 5, that means we have categorically not solidified 6 people at all! You don't even trust them, but we should if we don't trust you? That's not how it works, if people don't trust me, then I want them to at least trust my top town read. "Blah blah blah trust these scum buddies of mine that I won't openly trust, it's k" No, I'm Merlin, it's bad enough that you're scum, now you're stealing my identity?
Osie is scum guys, like hardcore, scream it at the top of your lungs scum. Oh, and JoeTerry might even be town, I'll get back to you on that.
You are now the sole claimed Percy, and DV's reaction indicates that he's actually town. Which means both of you should be on every quest, and silver is scum, so me taking both him and I out of the equation is a net gain for town.