@Shadow
I'd previously rated Zion as Null/scum based on my opinion that he wasn't posting a lot of content. I'm interested in refining my reads on everyone as information becomes available. I thought that was the point.
Is there a reason you don't want me refining my reads?
You have 9 people listed in your Null section, but you specifically chose Zionite to comment to about refining your read on. Why? What made him special?
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In related news, I just skimmed back through Zionite in horsemen, and he doesn't feel the same at all.
@Zionite: how much of your play this game was/is affected by your irritation with Lurker?I know I missed questions, I am not going to look back through for them right now for lack of time/energy, can those who asked either re-ask or link me back to them?
Guys...guys...these doubts about Shin basically all can be summed up with TSTBS, which is just stupid! The last couple times I've bought that argument, the person in question WAS SCUM. This is literally the most sure I've ever been about a scum read (outside of mechanically caught scum). We can entertain our other options tomorrow, heck I may even be dead so you can all do what you want, but enough of the "inexplicable good feelings", he's scum and he's going to die. Today. No more excuses, no more of any of this crap.
This post is going to be somewhat light on content, as I'm both short on time and lack drive right now (due to Real Life, I'll get over it).
@Proph: I don't really think Shinichi is unaligned with anyone except maaaybe some of his super early posts, and I don't feel like combing those. So yeah, QH could totally be a buddy. How do I feel about QH? He's basically a lurking wall poster, totally could be scum, I'd probably consider lynching him if Shinichi wasn't caught scum.
The EL/Terry slap fight is annoying, and if you both are town you should probably be ashamed of it, because it's not helping the game at all. If one of you is scum, then well done. If both of you are scum (which you're not, cause I'm not /that/ bad at town reading people) then it could be some of the greatest theater ever.
AG, as to the question "Would shadow do x as scum?" The answer is always yes (except for angle shooting/OoG crap). I mean, look at Horsemen; I left a tracker watcher combo and a role genie alive to endgame because it helped me win. How does that help you figure out my alignment though? Or what was the purpose of asking?
Regarding quoting the private chat, that's not allowed by any stretch of the imagination, I don't understand how that's even a question.(yes, purple, I'm feeling different)
Can anyone who thinks Shinichi is town go on record with a few sentences describing his townie behavior? Specifically what has he personally done that make you think he's town?
I'm torn on it; he had this hidden read of Lurker being pretty strong town, and then when he finally does a breakdown, he basically says "never mind, Lurker could go either way". I see this being one of two ways, either a scum motivated pull back against strongly white knighting someone that they realized could be a viable lynch target after all, or a town mistake with a very honest admittance that he was wrong. I'm trying to decide if KJ would have been willing to stick to his original leaning as scum, but I don't think he would have.
I foresaw this being a problem, and me trying to draw an earlier response out of KJ was in-part trying to avoid this.
Much like yourself, I have no clear perception on whether it's coming from scum or town. However, do you think the reasoning itself feels like KJ is approaching Me vs. Lurker from the mindset of town?
I think that's going to end up coming down to whether you and Lurker are both town. I am pretty sure you are, save the ever so slight pocket feels I'm getting due to you caring about my opinion more than I think it's worth right now. And Lurker...I have strong feelings about his alignment, but they keep oscillating back and forth so I'm just going to have to trust figuring him out to another time. All that to say, KJ's approach looks townie, but time/flips will truly tell.
Quote from Latin »
Quote from Shadow »
The other three that I'd like to focus on a bit more are Kabaz, Toastboy, and KJ. I feel reasonably confident that there is at least one scum in that grouping. To clarify before it's asked, not because of their interactions with each other, but because those three specifically stood out as curious when I did my isos.
Could you possibly give an example of what made them 'stand out' in their ISOs?
Or at least, please explain why their posting style caused this to occur.
Toastboy I really don't remember and couldn't find anything when I skimmed it again, so ask again later on him.
KJ felt almost too structured, I don't remember him sounding forced in previous games we've been in.
Kabaz gave his strongest townread as EL, but described it as a style that's often mislynchable (read: scummy) which seems like a strange way to qualify a town read.
I don't know what you mean real time interaction. Like just a back and forth between a couple/few that everyone else reads?
Well, no. You were in the last game with me. I had no problem with Tom directing the town like he did in Apocalypse because it was short and to the point. He was an effective post leader. This is just really getting on my nerves and frustrating me for some reason.
Like, his biggest town read is also who he is most frustrated with.
What I'm getting from Grapefruit is that what I'm seeing in Rodemy is just Rodemy. Maybe that's true. Maybe Rodemy somehow solves mafia games without reading posts. That's not really important here.
But he is saying that it's meaningless, and that Rodemy's tone when he's pushing his trash reads based on single posts makes him absolutely town, while also saying how good he is at faking it. He even agreed with my "Rodemy is putting Killjoy in an impossible position".
That read is never genuine. The confirmation bias in me says he's just reaching for a townread on a buddy, but it really looks more like he has TMI that Rodemy is town.
Blues was scummy. Grapefruit even moreso.
Not sure what would have to happen for me to move my vote.
@Shadow and @El, after reading this post from Pa, what is your read on him now?
My read on him is "Seems okay, save for a few things that make me scowl". Ugh, I kinda think maybe that means he's scum? It depends a lot on if Grapefruit were to flip town and then if he went after Rod from there. (Of course, if Rod them flipped scum I'd just be completely wrong)
I think Grapefruit is following in BluesEclipse's footsteps. I'm willing to lynch them next.
EDIT: #238 just makes me cringe. Why is OMGUS'ing a tell? Why is Anak's attack weak?
I can't explain the psychology behind why it's a tell, but in my experience scum will often turn around and cross vote. It happens. As for Anak's attack well first have you read it? First his facts weren't accurate, second it's not a strong reason. It was a catch up post, those don't tend to be the place for in depth reads. I'd much rather get my opinions out there and see how people react to them. I can provide details later.
And a question for you: what do you mean by following in Blues footsteps? There are a lot of ways that could be taken and I want to know what you meant.
Grapefruit, are you saying that you think OMGUS is a double tell for two scum cross voting?
@Zionite
Since you're starting to post things that aren't simply farts in the wind, I'm looking forward to refining my read on you.
-_- Vote Tubba Fett
This feels really forced. If Tubba flips scum I'd probably tinfoil zionite as a buddy, despite thinking he's town otherwise.
@Tubba: Why is zionite someone you're specifically interested in refining a read on?KJ: Help me understand how you have me as top town and this is all you say about me...it just seems...incomplete.
Shadowlancerx- I feel pretty good about Shadow being town too.
[snip]
Won't Lynch D1: Shadow, Rodemy, Lurker.
We shouldn't lynch D1: Latin, Grapefruit, (Jey?)
I'm null on: LnGrrrR, Toasty, Rhand, Vaimes, (Zionite?)
Pretty ok to lynch: Tubba, Pa Tennis.
To throw in my unwanted 2¢ into the thread, town hunting can be a great way to play. I'm not sold on it for myself as a primary strategy, but I've seen it work.
PTAP, been busy with real life, trying to buy a house, so wish me luck!
I see several questions directed at me which I don't have time to answer yet, but I will. In the meantime, @Study Latin: I think you're townreading me right? How strong would you rate that read?
I would say it's a fair town read at this point. I would need to re-read the thread and find the examples where we mind-meld to explain it fully, (which I'm not fully inclined to do atm), but a lot of my reasoning lays in your interactions with EL which I did make a large post on. My reservation lies in your reticence in voting.
What do you think about Rodemy's reaction to Pa's vote?
Fair enough. As stated above, it feels like you're leaning on my opinions, which I'm just not used to.
As far as Rodemy's reaction...I'm writing Rod off as town because of early in the thread, so I'm obviously going to be biased, but it looks fine. It looks like Rodemy.
PTAP, been busy with real life, trying to buy a house, so wish me luck!
I see several questions directed at me which I don't have time to answer yet, but I will. In the meantime, @Study Latin: I think you're townreading me right? How strong would you rate that read?
At this point, I'm basically glossing over everything Shinichi is saying, I feel like he's going the route of "Dump as much WIFOM into the thread as possible" so that his flip is absolutely useless for catching his partners.
@Jey, sorry, was not trying to drudge up negative emotion. I can assure you that unvoting someone as a wagon leader is not going to be a reason not to lynch them.
@Kabaz, have you heard of the theory of TSTBS (too scummy to be scum) and what do you think of it? Do you think you'd apply it to Lurker?
@Lingerer/Spyro, first off, okay for me to call you one of those, cause I'm not about this chain on consonants. Second, how much faith do you put into vote analysis?
@Grapefruit, regarding the question to Kabaz, I feel like something that gets overlooked a lot is how difficult it can be for scum to justify a town read, and how difficult it is to fake being perplexed by someone's alignment, because scum always know. Faking a scum read is easy, there's a reason scum win games, townies can look scummy, and scum can bus.
Guys, guys, go Iso Mindreaver in Mistborn Mafia and tell me that Shinichi isn't doing the exact same crap! (Mind's later posts were intentionally scummy, so do the stuff before that)
@Shadow Are you getting Mindreaver from Mistborn mafia vibes off Shin? I'm starting to.
OH MY GOSH that's exactly what it feels like!! I couldn't put my finger on it until you just said it, it's like identical! Like, purposely mixing up who can do what and acting completely confused about it!
I think zionite is probably town.
As far as real time, yeah, basically just a back and forth conversation of quick snippets, think discord rather than forum.
It's making it not fun to even engage with. I can't focus on anyone else because this guy. I can't read anyone but him because he posts every other second. I'm going to keep waiting until I have something to do. Hopefully he won't turn this thread into the Encyclopedia Britannica before I have a chance to see what other players are thinking.
Hey Zionite, how do you feel about real time interactions? Also, do you often get frustrated when one person is a post leader by a significant margin?
@Lurker: With the number of people already saying you're town, if you were scum together there's no good reason for KJ not to ride that, especially since he had already said he was town reading you.
Actually thanks, now I think you and KJ are probably unaligned. Cool.
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In related news, I just skimmed back through Zionite in horsemen, and he doesn't feel the same at all.
@Zionite: how much of your play this game was/is affected by your irritation with Lurker?
I know I missed questions, I am not going to look back through for them right now for lack of time/energy, can those who asked either re-ask or link me back to them?
@Proph: I don't really think Shinichi is unaligned with anyone except maaaybe some of his super early posts, and I don't feel like combing those. So yeah, QH could totally be a buddy. How do I feel about QH? He's basically a lurking wall poster, totally could be scum, I'd probably consider lynching him if Shinichi wasn't caught scum.
The EL/Terry slap fight is annoying, and if you both are town you should probably be ashamed of it, because it's not helping the game at all. If one of you is scum, then well done. If both of you are scum (which you're not, cause I'm not /that/ bad at town reading people) then it could be some of the greatest theater ever.
AG, as to the question "Would shadow do x as scum?" The answer is always yes (except for angle shooting/OoG crap). I mean, look at Horsemen; I left a tracker watcher combo and a role genie alive to endgame because it helped me win. How does that help you figure out my alignment though? Or what was the purpose of asking?
Regarding quoting the private chat, that's not allowed by any stretch of the imagination, I don't understand how that's even a question.
(yes, purple, I'm feeling different)
Can anyone who thinks Shinichi is town go on record with a few sentences describing his townie behavior? Specifically what has he personally done that make you think he's town?
KJ felt almost too structured, I don't remember him sounding forced in previous games we've been in.
Kabaz gave his strongest townread as EL, but described it as a style that's often mislynchable (read: scummy) which seems like a strange way to qualify a town read.The way he's described his irritation with EL looks like true irritated town; this in particular looks like a town post:Like, his biggest town read is also who he is most frustrated with.Do you mean referring to Anak? As in "why is Anak vs Lurker TvT" cause EL and Lurker are the same person.
My read on him is "Seems okay, save for a few things that make me scowl". Ugh, I kinda think maybe that means he's scum? It depends a lot on if Grapefruit were to flip town and then if he went after Rod from there. (Of course, if Rod them flipped scum I'd just be completely wrong)Grapefruit, are you saying that you think OMGUS is a double tell for two scum cross voting?-_-
Vote Tubba Fett
This feels really forced. If Tubba flips scum I'd probably tinfoil zionite as a buddy, despite thinking he's town otherwise.
@Tubba: Why is zionite someone you're specifically interested in refining a read on?
KJ: Help me understand how you have me as top town and this is all you say about me...it just seems...incomplete.
To throw in my unwanted 2¢ into the thread, town hunting can be a great way to play. I'm not sold on it for myself as a primary strategy, but I've seen it work.Fair enough. As stated above, it feels like you're leaning on my opinions, which I'm just not used to.
As far as Rodemy's reaction...I'm writing Rod off as town because of early in the thread, so I'm obviously going to be biased, but it looks fine. It looks like Rodemy.
I see several questions directed at me which I don't have time to answer yet, but I will. In the meantime, @Study Latin: I think you're townreading me right? How strong would you rate that read?
@Kabaz, have you heard of the theory of TSTBS (too scummy to be scum) and what do you think of it? Do you think you'd apply it to Lurker?
@Lingerer/Spyro, first off, okay for me to call you one of those, cause I'm not about this chain on consonants. Second, how much faith do you put into vote analysis?
@Grapefruit, regarding the question to Kabaz, I feel like something that gets overlooked a lot is how difficult it can be for scum to justify a town read, and how difficult it is to fake being perplexed by someone's alignment, because scum always know. Faking a scum read is easy, there's a reason scum win games, townies can look scummy, and scum can bus.
As far as real time, yeah, basically just a back and forth conversation of quick snippets, think discord rather than forum.
Actually thanks, now I think you and KJ are probably unaligned. Cool.