I think this latter list looks worse than the first. You have almost no ramp to accelerate you into a Destructive Force. You don't have any way of playing more than one land a turn, meaning that when you resolve an accelerated Destructive Force you will be blowing up all your lands and your own creatures.
The Birds of Paradise don't make any sense here as they don't accelerate you into any relevant 3 drop turn 2.
I've experimented with Esper and Grixis builds from a UB shell, but the mana is just so terrible in comparison to UB. The Scars duals are really good, but late game you have too many ETBT lands. Having the Scars duals means you're running fewer basics making the M10 duals worse. You generally need to resolve a Grave Titan on turn 6 against aggro decks and those lands entering tapped can become a real issue. I've landed up sticking with UB as a result.
My latest tech against aggro is a couple Perilous Myrs in the sideboard to complement the Skinrenders. I mainly test on MODO in 2/8 man queues. Unfortunately, in the three 2 man matches last night with Myrs in the board I was paired up with BUG twice and Valakut once so I have yet to see how good or bad they actually are.
I also tried out Marsh Casualties for a while but it too mana intensive turn 2 and too slow turn 5.
Four Armors is two too many. I hate drawing one Argentum Armor while running just two. I can't imagine having 4 since drawing any one of them is a dead draw. It seems really bad in a deck that already has a ton of terrible top decks and awkward opening hands.
I'd cut two armors, add more creatures. If you really want extra equipment add Sword of Body and Mind.
I don't think Whispersilk Cloak does much for you. You already have a ton of evasive dudes and cloak doesn't help push though much extra damage since your guys are so small to begin with. I'd rather just equip my Squadron Hawk with a Sword to force them to use a trade a removal spell for the Hawk. Also shroud is a total nonbo with having other equipment in the deck.
I think your sideboard is better off putting in non-targetable dudes like Firewalkers and White Knights in appropriate matchups as opposed to bringing in equipment that does that.
I've found Student of Warfare to be a much more consistent threat.
The Duelist lands up being a win more card or 1 mana 1/1. Student of Warfare is also sometimes 1 mana 1/1 but has the upside of becoming a solid 3/3 first striker when you aren't comboing off. In postboarded games, Duelist becomes even worse as people bring in artifact/enchantment hate to kill your Swords, Quests and Armors. In those cases Student is much better. In addition to this, Duelists lack evasion and end up getting chump blocked more often than not when equipped. The same happens with a leveled/equipped Student, so I prefer the consistency of the Student to the explosiveness of the Duelist.
Just started playing this deck a week ago or so, as I put the deck together on MODO. I started playing in the tournament practice room to get a feel for it. I had good success there, though your performance there doesn't matter much. I have now been playing in two man queues and have had some reasonable success.
Couple notes on the main deck choices:
- I dropped the Kor Duelists as they felt like a win more card.
- Student of Warfare has been great. In games that go unexpectedly long, she is a great top deck and fine place to sink mana into. It's really easy to get a read on people when they have a bolt or whatever and you can play around the removal spells.
- Elite Vanguard is the weakest creature here, but I still think better than the Duelist as he brings the early beats a little better.
- Cutting Squadron Hawks from 4 to 3 has been great. The rationale behind 3 is that 1) I never want to draw two Hawks, and 2) the fourth Hawk is much worse than the second and third. Realistically, when is this deck spending 8 mana to cast all 4 in a reasonable amount of time?
- Trusty Machete is sometimes relevant for Glint Hawks as you have another cheap artifact to bounce. Sometimes I find curve wise it makes more sense to fetch a Machete and play it, for example a turn 3 Stoneforge. It hasn't been an all-star, but for its cost, I have been happy with it.
- Tectonic Edge. I needed someway to interact with Valakut decks after getting wrecked by them. I'm not sure if the Edges are the right choice, but they have been relevant taking out the occasional Colonnade as well.
I think the sideboard needs some work still. I generally side out Squadron Hawks for more relevant hate cards (Firewalkers / White Knights) where appropriate.
I've gone 6-4 in 2 man queues the last few days. Two of those match losses were completely my fault by accidentally clicking "No" and one time F6ing when I shouldn't have. Such is play on MODO though.
I don't see how you beat any powerful current standard decks right now. Trimming down on Bolts makes an already difficult game 1 even worse against mythic. Turboland is probably an auto-lose since they're just faster at ramping than you. Ditto for red deck wins. The control matchup doesn't look particularly good either as you can apply no early pressure game one without leeches/blightnings. Without Sarkhan maindeck, you're giving up significant points against traditional Jund builds, though the Persecutor will help. It's also worth noting that you're giving yourself 6 total outs to the Persecutor.
If you can resolve these huge spells, you're likely to win, but if you're casting multiple 6+ mana spells, you were going to win anyway. I think the deck lacks identity. It's like half ramp deck, half not. I would focus on being a ramp deck if you want to play these huge spells. Maybe overgrown battlements have a place here? Nest Invaders or Kozilek's Predator?
I also think the mana seems a bit off as well as you are focusing strongly on red (3 rootbound crags) despite having 4 double black spells and needing black early for removal.
Something I've been tinkering with the last day or two. It basically takes Mythic's current acceleration package and puts it in Jund colors. It's not as explosive as the Conscription combo and Hierarch is much worse here since it only accelerates and doesn't provide any real color fixing. However, it is capable of turn 4 kills with unlikely/undisrupted god draws:
t1: hierarch
t2: cobra, attack for 1
t3: attack for 3 with cobra, fetch, broodmate
t4: sarkhan, burn for 8, attack for 8
The deck is largely focused on Vengevine / Sarkhan. Play Vengevine, sac him, get a dragon, play a mana dork, get Vengevine back.
I'm also considering ditching the Leeches and Bloodbraids (blasphemy!) for Nest Invaders and Kozilek's Predator. Bloodbraid recurs Vengevine really effectively, but just cascades into too many mana dorks overall. Nest Invader and Predator both provide plenty of Sarkhan sac options and accelerate as well. The Leeches and Bloodbraids might just be better overall, but is something I'm interested in testing out.
Jund Charm is probably the best option for straight up graveyard hate.
The Jund deck that won a standard premiere event on MTGO went the Royal Assassin route. It's obviously not graveyard hate, but (other than Open the Vaults) the only graveyard shenanigans going on right now are recurring Vengevine. Constantly blowing up Vengevines with Royal Assassin might force a Next Level Bant player to use a Bant Charm/Path on the Assassin instead of a Siege Gang, Sarkhan dragon token or whatever.
Thought Hemorrhage is a good anti-Vengevine card, but seems pretty narrow in its applications in the current meta as it doesn't do much against U/Wx control right now.
My name is Luis and I live in Brooklyn, NY. Two of my best buds - Alice and Joshua - and I have been running drafts, prereleases and FNMs for the last 7-8 months around NYC under the moniker, Brooklyn Gamers. If you're in NYC, there's a decent chance you've seen me playing in PTQs around the tri-state area and drafting at Hanley's and such in the last year or so. Maybe you've even played in one of the events we've run! For a long time I was strictly a casual player, but over the last year, I've gotten really interested in competitive magic. I'm torn right now between playing a rogue brew in the upcoming PTQ, Jund or tapout control!
In any case, we've been running these events with the hope of being able to open our own store. We're getting a step closer to that and recently signed a lease on a place.
If you're in the NYC area, drop by our developing store, play in an FNM or get some packs and draft. The more magic, the better!
Also, if you're interested in seeing a DIY gaming store be put together piece by piece, you can follow our frequent updates on our blog: http://twentysidedstore.com/blog/
The Birds of Paradise don't make any sense here as they don't accelerate you into any relevant 3 drop turn 2.
I'd recommend reading this Michael Jacob article:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/20153_Always_Order_Your_Ticket_In_Advance_Building_Decks_Around_a_Linchpin.html
My latest tech against aggro is a couple Perilous Myrs in the sideboard to complement the Skinrenders. I mainly test on MODO in 2/8 man queues. Unfortunately, in the three 2 man matches last night with Myrs in the board I was paired up with BUG twice and Valakut once so I have yet to see how good or bad they actually are.
I also tried out Marsh Casualties for a while but it too mana intensive turn 2 and too slow turn 5.
Here's my deck for reference:
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Island
3 Swamp
4 Preordain
2 Disfigure
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Duress
4 Mana Leak
4 Spreading Seas
3 Doom Blade
1 Cancel
2 Sea Gate Oracle
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Consume the Meek
3 Grave Titan
1 Spell Pierce
2 Disfigure
2 Perilous Myr
1 Flashfreeze
1 Deprive
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Stoic Rebuttal
2 Jace Beleren
2 Skinrender
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Wurmcoil Engine
If you feel comfortable tapping out for a 4 mana sorcery in a control mirror, shouldn't you just be playing one of your 6-7 Jaces?
I'd cut two armors, add more creatures. If you really want extra equipment add Sword of Body and Mind.
I think your sideboard is better off putting in non-targetable dudes like Firewalkers and White Knights in appropriate matchups as opposed to bringing in equipment that does that.
The Duelist lands up being a win more card or 1 mana 1/1. Student of Warfare is also sometimes 1 mana 1/1 but has the upside of becoming a solid 3/3 first striker when you aren't comboing off. In postboarded games, Duelist becomes even worse as people bring in artifact/enchantment hate to kill your Swords, Quests and Armors. In those cases Student is much better. In addition to this, Duelists lack evasion and end up getting chump blocked more often than not when equipped. The same happens with a leveled/equipped Student, so I prefer the consistency of the Student to the explosiveness of the Duelist.
Here's the deck I am running:
4 Memnite
4 Glint Hawk
2 Elite Vanguard
4 Student of Warfare
4 Kor Skyfisher
3 Kor Outfitter
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Squadron Hawk
2 Argentum Armor
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Trusty Machete
17 Plains
3 Tectonic Edge
4 Kor Firewalker
3 White Knight
3 Emerge Unscathed
3 Revoke Existence
1 War Priest of Thrune
1 Sword of Body and Mind
Couple notes on the main deck choices:
- I dropped the Kor Duelists as they felt like a win more card.
- Student of Warfare has been great. In games that go unexpectedly long, she is a great top deck and fine place to sink mana into. It's really easy to get a read on people when they have a bolt or whatever and you can play around the removal spells.
- Elite Vanguard is the weakest creature here, but I still think better than the Duelist as he brings the early beats a little better.
- Cutting Squadron Hawks from 4 to 3 has been great. The rationale behind 3 is that 1) I never want to draw two Hawks, and 2) the fourth Hawk is much worse than the second and third. Realistically, when is this deck spending 8 mana to cast all 4 in a reasonable amount of time?
- Trusty Machete is sometimes relevant for Glint Hawks as you have another cheap artifact to bounce. Sometimes I find curve wise it makes more sense to fetch a Machete and play it, for example a turn 3 Stoneforge. It hasn't been an all-star, but for its cost, I have been happy with it.
- Tectonic Edge. I needed someway to interact with Valakut decks after getting wrecked by them. I'm not sure if the Edges are the right choice, but they have been relevant taking out the occasional Colonnade as well.
I think the sideboard needs some work still. I generally side out Squadron Hawks for more relevant hate cards (Firewalkers / White Knights) where appropriate.
I've gone 6-4 in 2 man queues the last few days. Two of those match losses were completely my fault by accidentally clicking "No" and one time F6ing when I shouldn't have. Such is play on MODO though.
Hmm, nevermind - I thought at first glance it was trying to cast from the graveyard.
If you can resolve these huge spells, you're likely to win, but if you're casting multiple 6+ mana spells, you were going to win anyway. I think the deck lacks identity. It's like half ramp deck, half not. I would focus on being a ramp deck if you want to play these huge spells. Maybe overgrown battlements have a place here? Nest Invaders or Kozilek's Predator?
I also think the mana seems a bit off as well as you are focusing strongly on red (3 rootbound crags) despite having 4 double black spells and needing black early for removal.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Lotus Cobra
4 Putrid Leech
4 Sprouting Thrinax
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Vengevine
3 Broodmate Dragon
Planeswalkers
4 Sarkhan the Mad
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
2 Raging Ravine
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rootbound Crag
4 Forest
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
3 Doom Blade
4 Cunning Sparkmage
4 Ruin Blaster
4 Maelstrom Pulse
Something I've been tinkering with the last day or two. It basically takes Mythic's current acceleration package and puts it in Jund colors. It's not as explosive as the Conscription combo and Hierarch is much worse here since it only accelerates and doesn't provide any real color fixing. However, it is capable of turn 4 kills with unlikely/undisrupted god draws:
t1: hierarch
t2: cobra, attack for 1
t3: attack for 3 with cobra, fetch, broodmate
t4: sarkhan, burn for 8, attack for 8
The deck is largely focused on Vengevine / Sarkhan. Play Vengevine, sac him, get a dragon, play a mana dork, get Vengevine back.
I'm also considering ditching the Leeches and Bloodbraids (blasphemy!) for Nest Invaders and Kozilek's Predator. Bloodbraid recurs Vengevine really effectively, but just cascades into too many mana dorks overall. Nest Invader and Predator both provide plenty of Sarkhan sac options and accelerate as well. The Leeches and Bloodbraids might just be better overall, but is something I'm interested in testing out.
The main deck adds up to 56 cards...
The Jund deck that won a standard premiere event on MTGO went the Royal Assassin route. It's obviously not graveyard hate, but (other than Open the Vaults) the only graveyard shenanigans going on right now are recurring Vengevine. Constantly blowing up Vengevines with Royal Assassin might force a Next Level Bant player to use a Bant Charm/Path on the Assassin instead of a Siege Gang, Sarkhan dragon token or whatever.
Thought Hemorrhage is a good anti-Vengevine card, but seems pretty narrow in its applications in the current meta as it doesn't do much against U/Wx control right now.
If you're ever in the area, crack some packs and draft with us!
My name is Luis and I live in Brooklyn, NY. Two of my best buds - Alice and Joshua - and I have been running drafts, prereleases and FNMs for the last 7-8 months around NYC under the moniker, Brooklyn Gamers. If you're in NYC, there's a decent chance you've seen me playing in PTQs around the tri-state area and drafting at Hanley's and such in the last year or so. Maybe you've even played in one of the events we've run! For a long time I was strictly a casual player, but over the last year, I've gotten really interested in competitive magic. I'm torn right now between playing a rogue brew in the upcoming PTQ, Jund or tapout control!
In any case, we've been running these events with the hope of being able to open our own store. We're getting a step closer to that and recently signed a lease on a place.
If you're in the NYC area, drop by our developing store, play in an FNM or get some packs and draft. The more magic, the better!
Also, if you're interested in seeing a DIY gaming store be put together piece by piece, you can follow our frequent updates on our blog:
http://twentysidedstore.com/blog/
Hope to see some of you dudes around!
Luis