I think the bigger picture is being lost here, think about it...
In an aggro deck, say White Weenie
T5 Gideon use his +2 forcing all your opponents creatures to attack Gideon, you'll have creatures on the board to block for him, but you get to pick and choose, taking out their creatures at your convenience and letting Gideon soak up the rest, if any, then finish off another with his -2.
Or just cast DoJ and swing with him on the same turn, then when they play a creature next, provided it's not huge or a Broodmate or something, force the attack, then kill it with -2. It's close to a lock at that point, minus spot removal.
For control decks:
Gideon = Fog for you (if you loose control of the board he can soak up the damage for you), Removal (opponents will think twice about tapping to attack), and Damage, three things control decks need lots of... in ONE card.
Plus, before I forget to mention... did your opponent tap his Noble Hierarch for mana last turn... oh, well that'll be the last time, has your opponent been pinging away all your creatures with his sparkmage collar? Yup, not any more once Gideon hits the board, or perhaps your opponent tapped Knight of the Reliquary to fix his mana base or make her a 9/9, well Gideon can take care of that too the MOMENT he hits the board.
The only drawback is that Jund will still kick his ass up and down the street all day long, he's got nothin' on Jund, sadly.
Just think about him hiding behind Wall of Denial, Jar-Jar Sphinx, or, hell, even Wall of Reverence (you would gain 6 life from him being a 6/6 at the end of your turn) and just pumping him, block with the walls, then picking away at the tapped creatures.
ROE Bant wall deck with dauntless escort, DoJ, Martial Coup, one or two big fat Eldrazi, and Gideon sounds pretty constructed viable to me.
I've made a few modifications that have worked well so far:
- Took out the Trapmaker's Snares, out of the dozen or more games I either never saw one or had to use one. (Replaced the singleton Island with a Forest)
- I put in my standard white removal package of 3 Path to Exile and 2 O-rings (I never leave home without this package, it works extremely well.) And put 1 Path and 2 Rings in the board.
- Lastly, took out one Baneslayer and put in two Thornlings, this'll be an unpopular choice but, so long as you drop him with at least one free green mana, you've got something that will live through a board sweeper, plus he diversifies your plan B. The games that I lost were ones where my board got swept before I could land a fatty and where I didn't have the trap in hand, having an out against sweepers is important, keep the Baneslayer in the board and take out the Thornlings game two if they aren't running sweepers.
Well, WotC has been trying to make auras constructed viable, are totems good enough? Been thinking about a combo deck with Mesa Enchantress, Uril the Miststalker, Omnath the Locus of Mana, Boar and Hyena Umbra, and probably Canopy Cover. Worked out some decklists but they all sucked, any thoughts, suggestions (or ridicule for even suggesting this)?
Put this together and played five games last night. I was immediately attracted to this deck because when I first started playing Magic I thought Elvish Piper was the end all be all badass card and she had the best art I'd seen. But when I started getting competitive, I realized she wasn't all that great. That being said, it's a great feeling to have her in a sleeve again.
Anyways:
vs. Allies: mana screwed at two lands the whole game, dropped Iona turn six with a Piper using two Nobles and two lands, Allies were out of control by then, nothing I could do.
vs. Valakut Ramp: dropped Iona turn 4 and called red, but he already had an Avenger on the board and proceeded to land fall thrice the next turn, nothing I could do.
vs. U/W control: T1 Noble, T2, Noble and Birds, T3 Piper, T4 Iona - game over
vs. RDW: T1 Noble, T2, Cobra, T3 Summoning Trap into Progenitus, T4 Baneslayer and swing with Progenitus, T5 swing again - game over
vs. Jund: T1 Birds, T2 Cobra, T3 Knight of the Reliquary (Cobra dies), T4 Piper had to protect the Piper with a Steppe, T5 Iona (it was a tough decision, but I called black I decided I wasn't worried so much about bolts and siege gang as I was about pulses), T6 Baneslayer (which was responded to by Broodmate), T7 swing with the angels and killed both dragons, T7 Pipered in a Progenitus and swung again with the angles, T8 - game over.
I gotta say, I'm surprised by the consistency in this deck, nearly every was a turn 3 or 4 bomb on the board. I'm loving it.
Some of the inclusions here are obvious, some are not, I'll start with the latter.
Admonition Angel: this is still in the iffy/testing phase. Basically I want her as a midgame back up plan. If I draw her up by turn six or seven (and the game's lasted that long, which is a bad sign anyways) I'd want to drop her on a turn where I can drop a fetch and blow out two blockers hopefully pulling in the last bit of game winning damage. I get it that she is removal fodder, but I don't want her to stay on the board any longer than one turn, she basically hits the board blows out two blockers and hopefully wins the game, even if she gets Pathed, that just means your Landfall creatures hit a little harder this turn, which is never a bad thing.
Earthquake: almost always a one sided sweeper if used after pumping the landfall creatures.
Elspeth/Ajani: thinking of bumping up to 2 Ajani's, he's just a badass, he hits the board peels off a blocker and gains you three life. Elspeth is self explanatory.
Kitesail: the duelist occupied this slot for a while, but I think the evasion is just flat out better.
Testing: Jund - 40/50 Jund's favor, there's not much to do but hope for a good opening hand and swing away as fast as possible, Ruinblaster their lands and hope for Firewalkers.
RDW - 60/50 Koros favor, early firewalkers win you the game and so does an early collar for lifegain, otherwise just swing away as they have no blockers.
Naya - 60/50 Koros favor, this is a tough matchup, I prefer to put in the sparkmages and try to match their sparks with my own, sanctifiers can pull this war in your favor by blowing out their collars, plus the extra earthquake can pull their support creatures off the board.
U/W 80/20 Koros favor, blow their dual/man lands and hit fast and early, easily the best matchup.
he can also counter such things like tendrils life gain, or whatever else, making them illegal targets.
I forgot to mention that, with Aristocrat you can sack your creature (Bloodghast) usually to avoid the exile and get him back with the Grim Discovery, frustrates the hell outta white removal players.
I have so rarely seen a decklist with x4 Vampire Aristocrats, where's the love? The shenanigans to be had with this guy are innumerable.
Aristocrat/Bloodghast/Highborn:
Swing in with Aristocrat and Bloodghast, if they block the Bloodghast, sack him punch for four with the Arisocrat and then pay a mana to deal another 2 damage. If they block the Aristocrat, then sack Bloodghast and kill the blocker, then pay the one mana again.
Aristocrat/Bloodghast/Blade of the Bloodchief:
It's easy to see how this can get way out of control really quickly.
Aristocrat/Gatekeeper/Grim Discovery:
Play your Gatekeeper, kill a creature. Swing with the Arisocrat, sack the Gatekeeper, play Grim Discovery, and get your Gatekeeper back to kill another creature.
Lastly, if you're burning to play with Abyssal Persecutor, Aristocrat is the perfect way to get him off the board when you need it.
I've tested these combos (not in tournaments yet), but they all work. Feedback?
I've only recently put together a mono-black Vampire deck and have been considering options against Jund. Here's my thoughts: keep only those creatures that do something when they hit the board, otherwise, you're basically wasting mana i.e. creatures to keep:
Gatekeeper Malakir (removes a creature)
Kalastria Highborn (play only when you have open mana to activate her ability if she gets immediately bolted)
Malakir Bloodwitch (will do at least one damage and can eat a Dragon)
Vampire Nocturnus (duh)
Vampire Hexmage (blow up Garruk)
Bloodghast (I know Jund isn't scared of a 2/1, but he'll always be there)
Spells to keep:
Urge to Feed (kill a Thrinax or reduce the damage from a dragon)
Mind Sludge (turn 5 discard is brutal)
Grim Discovery (return that Gatekeeper to your hand)
Deathmark (kill anything they have, except Siege Gang)
and lastly: Sadistic Sacrament (with your first sacrament you exile all their Elves, the second sacrament pulls out the Bit Blasts, make those Junders actually have to pay to cast their 3/2/1 cards, it'll slow them the hell down)
forgot to mention Tendrils, the need for this card is obvious .
Just my thoughts on the subject, like I said I'm new to Vampires.
In an aggro deck, say White Weenie
T5 Gideon use his +2 forcing all your opponents creatures to attack Gideon, you'll have creatures on the board to block for him, but you get to pick and choose, taking out their creatures at your convenience and letting Gideon soak up the rest, if any, then finish off another with his -2.
Or just cast DoJ and swing with him on the same turn, then when they play a creature next, provided it's not huge or a Broodmate or something, force the attack, then kill it with -2. It's close to a lock at that point, minus spot removal.
For control decks:
Gideon = Fog for you (if you loose control of the board he can soak up the damage for you), Removal (opponents will think twice about tapping to attack), and Damage, three things control decks need lots of... in ONE card.
Plus, before I forget to mention... did your opponent tap his Noble Hierarch for mana last turn... oh, well that'll be the last time, has your opponent been pinging away all your creatures with his sparkmage collar? Yup, not any more once Gideon hits the board, or perhaps your opponent tapped Knight of the Reliquary to fix his mana base or make her a 9/9, well Gideon can take care of that too the MOMENT he hits the board.
The only drawback is that Jund will still kick his ass up and down the street all day long, he's got nothin' on Jund, sadly.
Just think about him hiding behind Wall of Denial, Jar-Jar Sphinx, or, hell, even Wall of Reverence (you would gain 6 life from him being a 6/6 at the end of your turn) and just pumping him, block with the walls, then picking away at the tapped creatures.
ROE Bant wall deck with dauntless escort, DoJ, Martial Coup, one or two big fat Eldrazi, and Gideon sounds pretty constructed viable to me.
- Took out the Trapmaker's Snares, out of the dozen or more games I either never saw one or had to use one. (Replaced the singleton Island with a Forest)
- I put in my standard white removal package of 3 Path to Exile and 2 O-rings (I never leave home without this package, it works extremely well.) And put 1 Path and 2 Rings in the board.
- Lastly, took out one Baneslayer and put in two Thornlings, this'll be an unpopular choice but, so long as you drop him with at least one free green mana, you've got something that will live through a board sweeper, plus he diversifies your plan B. The games that I lost were ones where my board got swept before I could land a fatty and where I didn't have the trap in hand, having an out against sweepers is important, keep the Baneslayer in the board and take out the Thornlings game two if they aren't running sweepers.
ROE talk not permitted. Infraction issued.
Anyways:
vs. Allies: mana screwed at two lands the whole game, dropped Iona turn six with a Piper using two Nobles and two lands, Allies were out of control by then, nothing I could do.
vs. Valakut Ramp: dropped Iona turn 4 and called red, but he already had an Avenger on the board and proceeded to land fall thrice the next turn, nothing I could do.
vs. U/W control: T1 Noble, T2, Noble and Birds, T3 Piper, T4 Iona - game over
vs. RDW: T1 Noble, T2, Cobra, T3 Summoning Trap into Progenitus, T4 Baneslayer and swing with Progenitus, T5 swing again - game over
vs. Jund: T1 Birds, T2 Cobra, T3 Knight of the Reliquary (Cobra dies), T4 Piper had to protect the Piper with a Steppe, T5 Iona (it was a tough decision, but I called black I decided I wasn't worried so much about bolts and siege gang as I was about pulses), T6 Baneslayer (which was responded to by Broodmate), T7 swing with the angels and killed both dragons, T7 Pipered in a Progenitus and swung again with the angles, T8 - game over.
I gotta say, I'm surprised by the consistency in this deck, nearly every was a turn 3 or 4 bomb on the board. I'm loving it.
Some of the inclusions here are obvious, some are not, I'll start with the latter.
Admonition Angel: this is still in the iffy/testing phase. Basically I want her as a midgame back up plan. If I draw her up by turn six or seven (and the game's lasted that long, which is a bad sign anyways) I'd want to drop her on a turn where I can drop a fetch and blow out two blockers hopefully pulling in the last bit of game winning damage. I get it that she is removal fodder, but I don't want her to stay on the board any longer than one turn, she basically hits the board blows out two blockers and hopefully wins the game, even if she gets Pathed, that just means your Landfall creatures hit a little harder this turn, which is never a bad thing.
Earthquake: almost always a one sided sweeper if used after pumping the landfall creatures.
Elspeth/Ajani: thinking of bumping up to 2 Ajani's, he's just a badass, he hits the board peels off a blocker and gains you three life. Elspeth is self explanatory.
Kitesail: the duelist occupied this slot for a while, but I think the evasion is just flat out better.
SB: Jund - +3 Ruinblasters - 3 Skyfisher and +3 Firewalker -1 Admonition Angel - 1 Path -1 Kitesail
RDW - +4 Firewalker -3 Skyfisher -1 Admonition Angel
Naya +1 Earthquake - 1 Path and +4 Sparkmage -4 Skyfisher/Admonition +2 Sanctifier -2 Kitesail/Ranger
U/W +3 Ruinblaster -3 Skyfisher
Testing: Jund - 40/50 Jund's favor, there's not much to do but hope for a good opening hand and swing away as fast as possible, Ruinblaster their lands and hope for Firewalkers.
RDW - 60/50 Koros favor, early firewalkers win you the game and so does an early collar for lifegain, otherwise just swing away as they have no blockers.
Naya - 60/50 Koros favor, this is a tough matchup, I prefer to put in the sparkmages and try to match their sparks with my own, sanctifiers can pull this war in your favor by blowing out their collars, plus the extra earthquake can pull their support creatures off the board.
U/W 80/20 Koros favor, blow their dual/man lands and hit fast and early, easily the best matchup.
Suggestions, comments, help?
I forgot to mention that, with Aristocrat you can sack your creature (Bloodghast) usually to avoid the exile and get him back with the Grim Discovery, frustrates the hell outta white removal players.
Aristocrat/Bloodghast/Highborn:
Swing in with Aristocrat and Bloodghast, if they block the Bloodghast, sack him punch for four with the Arisocrat and then pay a mana to deal another 2 damage. If they block the Aristocrat, then sack Bloodghast and kill the blocker, then pay the one mana again.
Aristocrat/Bloodghast/Blade of the Bloodchief:
It's easy to see how this can get way out of control really quickly.
Aristocrat/Gatekeeper/Grim Discovery:
Play your Gatekeeper, kill a creature. Swing with the Arisocrat, sack the Gatekeeper, play Grim Discovery, and get your Gatekeeper back to kill another creature.
Lastly, if you're burning to play with Abyssal Persecutor, Aristocrat is the perfect way to get him off the board when you need it.
I've tested these combos (not in tournaments yet), but they all work. Feedback?
Gatekeeper Malakir (removes a creature)
Kalastria Highborn (play only when you have open mana to activate her ability if she gets immediately bolted)
Malakir Bloodwitch (will do at least one damage and can eat a Dragon)
Vampire Nocturnus (duh)
Vampire Hexmage (blow up Garruk)
Bloodghast (I know Jund isn't scared of a 2/1, but he'll always be there)
Spells to keep:
Urge to Feed (kill a Thrinax or reduce the damage from a dragon)
Mind Sludge (turn 5 discard is brutal)
Grim Discovery (return that Gatekeeper to your hand)
Deathmark (kill anything they have, except Siege Gang)
and lastly: Sadistic Sacrament (with your first sacrament you exile all their Elves, the second sacrament pulls out the Bit Blasts, make those Junders actually have to pay to cast their 3/2/1 cards, it'll slow them the hell down)
forgot to mention Tendrils, the need for this card is obvious .
Just my thoughts on the subject, like I said I'm new to Vampires.