At first glance this guy seemed to me like a budget Scavenging Ooze.
At second glance this guy seemed to me like a budget Scavenging Ooze.
At third glance... maybe he's actually good.
If you've ever played against RUG Delver then you know that by the end of T2 it's very likely they have upwards of 2 lands an instant and a sorcery in the yard. Being able to reliably ping your RUG opponent for 2 damage or more per turn is not irrelevant in the right kind of shell. Remember that RUG wants to put up Goyf walls and beat you with giant flying insects while screwing everything you try and do. Keeping them off threshold to blank their Nimble Mongeese while keeping their Goyfs low is pretty good. I'm not saying he's great or even playable, I do think it's worth a try.
He comes down a turn earlier than the Ooze against Dredge which can make or break a game.
He hoses opposing Knights of the Reliquary while accelerating your mana.
Obviously I think you should almost always reach for the Ooze first, if for no other reason than he outclasses Goyf while shrinking said Goyf. But perhaps Nic Fit (which has been borderline Tier 1 for a while and is probably going to be Tier 1 due to Abrupt Decay, the latter also just absurdly wrecks RUG or at least I hope so) should look at him as a 1-of Zenith target.
Or maybe he's crap, I don't know yet but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.
Edit: I swear I looked and didn't see a Deathrite Shaman thread already, d'oh. Feel free to merge, sorry for the inconvenience.
Here's the list, it may take a few minutes to see what's going on, but trust me that it's good and I'll post tourney results from last night. Credit for design goes to two of my very talented deck-building friends.
So obviously this list is pretty busy. The Trinket Mage package is fantastic, lot's of great 1-of's. Meekstone for the aggro match, Pithing Needle for hate, MB Relic for Dredge, Top to get you ahead when needed, or even the Capsule that pairs great with Academy Ruins (remember Capsule can kill that Emrakul your opponent just show and telled into play) or you can even grab some artifact lands to fix your mana.
About half my games were won setting up sword of the meek/foundry combo while having the game locked out with a trinisphere or chalice. Another common wincon is locking the game out and Jace ultimate for the win. Here's the results from a small tournament yesterday where I went 3-1.
Round 1 vs. BUG-Landstill
Game 1: on the play I lead with T2 Trinket Mage getting Chalice which he counters, then play Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas into another counterspell, Wasteland keeps him on two lands, Jace gets countered, I beat with Trinket Mage and land Crucible locking him down to his two basics. Peel another Jace that sticks and fateseal/Crucible locks the game out.
Game 2: He mulligans to 4 and land a T4 Tezzeret the Seeker setting up Thopter/Sword that slips past his countermagic for the win.
Round 2 vs. High Tide
Game 1: I land T2 Trinisphere followed by Jace and ultimate before he finds and answer.
Game 2: I land T2 Trinisphere again and set up Thopter/Sword, he Hurkyll's Recall's me the turn before lethal and combo's off.
Game 3: My T2 Trinisphere gets countered but my Chalice at 1 then Chalice at 2 (fetched them both with the two Trinket Mages I had in hand) stick then I land Trinisphere. Won off beating him down with a pair of mages.
Round 3 vs. MUD Stompy
Game 1: He's on the play and hits Monolith-Key-Metalworker on T1 Followed by Hellkite/Lightning Greaves on T2 and kills me with firebreathing on T3.
Game 2: Ensnaring Bridge shuts down his aggro and I eventually Jace him.
Game 3: He goes double Lodestone Golemn on T2 and play Ensnaring Bridge, but the two golemns plus a wasteland make it so I can't get my hand below 5 and he gets there.
Round 4 vs. RUg Threshhold
Game 1: I land the T2 Trinisphere and wastelands keep him from being able to do much, Jace gets there.
Game 2: He gets the jump on his resource denial and beats me down.
Game 3: This game was about 30 minutes, lots of back and forth. Tezzeret Agent of Bolas ultimates to give me 12 life getting me back in the game after some nasty Goyf hits. The agent of bolas finally gets there after making enough 5/5's to break the stalemate and alpha for the win.
All in all this list really rewards players who make good decisions, it's tough as hell to play and you're never really sure whether you've made the right play. If you're looking for a list that affords you about 10 or so valid options per turn, then here it is.
(Standard) Noxious Revival + Looting outlets (Faithless, Tibalt?, or the new land) + Miracles
(Legacy) Brainstorm + Miracles (the Lava Axe one seems the best, U/R Burn anyone?)
(Standard) I have a feeling W/U flicker cards are gonna be nuts
(Standard) Lone Revenant + Gideon + Tamiyo (many people are gonna lose to this, Lone Revenant is my #1 sleeper pick, this guy is awesome.)
(Modern) Sigarda is gonna start showing up in Bant and be a house.
(Standard) Gisela + Frites is gonna be scary
Just a couple thoughts, I could be totally wrong (in fact I usually am.)
T1 Champion of the Parish
T2 Lightning Mauler (no pairing), swing with champion for 2
T3 Silverblade Paladin paired with Lightning Mauler, swing with everyone for 3+4+4 = 11+2 = 13
I'm not understanding the "it's bad because it gives your opponent a choice" argument. Isn't this entire game predicated on choices? If my opponent has a blocker they get to "choose" to block, should I stop playing creatures just because they give my opponent a choice? If my opponent has counter magic and I play a spell then I'm giving them the opportunity to "choose" whether my spell resolves... should I stop playing spells? Winning a game of magic (in Legacy at least) is built around manipulating your opponent's "choices", this card does that very well.
Imagine Vexing Devil against say Maverick (since Maverick is so popular right now)
On the play, turn 1 you play Vexing Devil, your opponent looks at their hand, either they have a Swords to Plowshares or they don't, they're not gonna have a blocker that can trade with this guy for a while. They could go fetchland-Noble-fetchland-Knight of the Reliquary, in which case you got 4 damage in but then they can't swing with their Knight which is good for you. Or they could turn 1 Mother of Runes, take a hit for 4 then they could block, tap for pro red, but then they're wasting their MOM activation every turn. Even if they do Swords him before you swing, then Vexing Devil says R: target opponent discards a card and you gain 4 life, which isn't half bad against Maverick. Mathematically in legacy Burn you need to be dealing 3 damage every time you tap a mountain, this guy has the potential of putting you ahead of the curve. Whether or not this can happen consistently with this guy or not needs to be tested.
But to outright say he's bad because he has the words "opponent" and "choose" printed on him is just dumb and comparisons to Browbeat are also just dumb
I think this guy is great, him plus the red miracle in a RU burn deck (blue for delver and brainstorm) is definitely something I'd like to try.
As a legacy player, this damned thing better not be too good. T3 Batterskull is just good enough in terms of power, but not too broken that it wrecks legacy. A 7 equipment better not be too good or they might just as well ban Stoneforge in legacy when they spoil it.
Trying to brew up stuff for Modern, got a GP in February and I'd like to take a good Rogue list. Here's an adaptation from a rogue standard list. I haven't tested it yet, but I'd like some suggestions:
Slipknot's got the right of it, I would only ever cast the development side if I was in a real bind, I set up nearly the entire sideboard such that it could be cascaded into.
Ardent Plea is the superior choice because you are usually only swinging with one creature at a time, so the exalted really helps. Imagine T3 Ardent Plea --> T4 Bloodbraid into another Ardent Plea swing with a 5/4 haste guy. Plus is pairs up well with Elspeth, you can do some serious damage and leave your other creatures back to block for you PW's.
I think this is one of those lists you just have to try in order to get sense for it. There's lot's of CA from your cascades, the combination of spreading seas + Ajani Vengeant + Frost Titan can really screw with your opponent's mana base, which is the most powerful thing this deck does. Unlike other lists that attack mana bases, this one doesn't trade card for card, all the angles you hit their mana with net you some advantage. Even against Esper Gifts, spreading seas + ajani really ruins their day.
Also, this deck works at such weird angels that your opponent tends to have a hard time responding.
Even though it's a clunky sorcery speed deck, it takes a lot of skill to pilot. Try it out, it's quirky and fun.
@sisorus
I'll be playtesting next Thursday against a variety of decks, including Zoo. I'll post a report.
Before you make fun of the mana base, it works, just trust me on that. I adapted this deck from one I used to play during SOA/ZEN standard. I piloted this with very consistent success against Jund, Bant Conscription, Pyromancer's Ascension, Boss Naya, RDW (back when this was a good deck), Superfriends, and so on. I've only tested this against Esper Gifts so far, but it's performed very solidly.
I used to run Sphinx of Jwar Isle as my finisher, this deck really needs a good evasive and hard to kill creature as its heavy, Frost Titan seemed a good upgrade but if there are any other suggestions I'd like to hear them. This deck may look goofy but it packs a pretty serious punch.
As for curse, the Liquidmetal control deck was running Nexus and Curse was a house against him. I've been playtesting against Kessig and have found it exceptional there too since they can't activate their Nexus and their Titans die to yours. As for their enchantment hate, if you mean Slimes off the board and Best Within, I usually had either a Batterskull/Wurmcoil/Sword/Mortarpod (the last one also handily deals with Nexus) on the board as better targets for their Slime or if they use a Beast Within on it then you end of with a 3/3 body and have (probably) another enchantment and a tutor in your library somewhere.
Druidic Satchel is weird to play with, you certainly don't slam it down on T3, but against control it is really good. It's a late-game piece, either getting you to draw fewer lands (it's most important use), dropping tiny little bodies to either wear a sword or get sacced to a mortarpod for some extra damage, or gain life (which is not irrelevant especially if you've stabalized against RDW or Delver.)
Liliana is another interesting card to play with. I know that I don't have much graveyard interaction, but both of my matches against control were singlehandedly won by her. Yes, you might end up pitching a beater, but control lives and dies by the cards in their hand. If you and the control player are topdecking then you're on the winning side of that deal. I really don't think you have to "build around her" in order to get value out of the card.
The curve is awkward, but the early game consists of "fencing" as it were with your opponent with removal and such and then setting up for a finisher of some kind. With Bloodgift as a great bit of fuel for the late game.
I've added Kessig since Friday and it's been good when I've drawn it.
Got a little bored with the metagame decks so I threw this together just shortly before FNM and went 4-0 going 2-0 each matchup.
R1: Liquid Metal Control
R2: U/R Delver
R3: Esper Control
R4: U/B Control
Here's the list, it's a blast to play and really rewards you for making good choices.
Quick notes:
- Mortarpod is amazing right now, you should be playing it. Remember that is gives +0/+1 to your 3 toughness guys (Glissa, Olivia, and Bloodline Keeper which gets them out of Slagstorm range.)
- Druidic Satchel is a bizarre card, you'd be surprised how good it is.
- Curse of Death's Hold is amazing against Nexus decks.
- Sorin Markov is just plain funny out of the board.
- Liliana is amazing, I don't know why more decks aren't playing her, she is just that good.
At second glance this guy seemed to me like a budget Scavenging Ooze.
At third glance... maybe he's actually good.
If you've ever played against RUG Delver then you know that by the end of T2 it's very likely they have upwards of 2 lands an instant and a sorcery in the yard. Being able to reliably ping your RUG opponent for 2 damage or more per turn is not irrelevant in the right kind of shell. Remember that RUG wants to put up Goyf walls and beat you with giant flying insects while screwing everything you try and do. Keeping them off threshold to blank their Nimble Mongeese while keeping their Goyfs low is pretty good. I'm not saying he's great or even playable, I do think it's worth a try.
He comes down a turn earlier than the Ooze against Dredge which can make or break a game.
He hoses opposing Knights of the Reliquary while accelerating your mana.
Obviously I think you should almost always reach for the Ooze first, if for no other reason than he outclasses Goyf while shrinking said Goyf. But perhaps Nic Fit (which has been borderline Tier 1 for a while and is probably going to be Tier 1 due to Abrupt Decay, the latter also just absurdly wrecks RUG or at least I hope so) should look at him as a 1-of Zenith target.
Or maybe he's crap, I don't know yet but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.
Edit: I swear I looked and didn't see a Deathrite Shaman thread already, d'oh. Feel free to merge, sorry for the inconvenience.
So obviously this list is pretty busy. The Trinket Mage package is fantastic, lot's of great 1-of's. Meekstone for the aggro match, Pithing Needle for hate, MB Relic for Dredge, Top to get you ahead when needed, or even the Capsule that pairs great with Academy Ruins (remember Capsule can kill that Emrakul your opponent just show and telled into play) or you can even grab some artifact lands to fix your mana.
About half my games were won setting up sword of the meek/foundry combo while having the game locked out with a trinisphere or chalice. Another common wincon is locking the game out and Jace ultimate for the win. Here's the results from a small tournament yesterday where I went 3-1.
Round 1 vs. BUG-Landstill
Game 1: on the play I lead with T2 Trinket Mage getting Chalice which he counters, then play Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas into another counterspell, Wasteland keeps him on two lands, Jace gets countered, I beat with Trinket Mage and land Crucible locking him down to his two basics. Peel another Jace that sticks and fateseal/Crucible locks the game out.
Game 2: He mulligans to 4 and land a T4 Tezzeret the Seeker setting up Thopter/Sword that slips past his countermagic for the win.
Round 2 vs. High Tide
Game 1: I land T2 Trinisphere followed by Jace and ultimate before he finds and answer.
Game 2: I land T2 Trinisphere again and set up Thopter/Sword, he Hurkyll's Recall's me the turn before lethal and combo's off.
Game 3: My T2 Trinisphere gets countered but my Chalice at 1 then Chalice at 2 (fetched them both with the two Trinket Mages I had in hand) stick then I land Trinisphere. Won off beating him down with a pair of mages.
Round 3 vs. MUD Stompy
Game 1: He's on the play and hits Monolith-Key-Metalworker on T1 Followed by Hellkite/Lightning Greaves on T2 and kills me with firebreathing on T3.
Game 2: Ensnaring Bridge shuts down his aggro and I eventually Jace him.
Game 3: He goes double Lodestone Golemn on T2 and play Ensnaring Bridge, but the two golemns plus a wasteland make it so I can't get my hand below 5 and he gets there.
Round 4 vs. RUg Threshhold
Game 1: I land the T2 Trinisphere and wastelands keep him from being able to do much, Jace gets there.
Game 2: He gets the jump on his resource denial and beats me down.
Game 3: This game was about 30 minutes, lots of back and forth. Tezzeret Agent of Bolas ultimates to give me 12 life getting me back in the game after some nasty Goyf hits. The agent of bolas finally gets there after making enough 5/5's to break the stalemate and alpha for the win.
All in all this list really rewards players who make good decisions, it's tough as hell to play and you're never really sure whether you've made the right play. If you're looking for a list that affords you about 10 or so valid options per turn, then here it is.
(Legacy) Brainstorm + Miracles (the Lava Axe one seems the best, U/R Burn anyone?)
(Standard) I have a feeling W/U flicker cards are gonna be nuts
(Standard) Lone Revenant + Gideon + Tamiyo (many people are gonna lose to this, Lone Revenant is my #1 sleeper pick, this guy is awesome.)
(Modern) Sigarda is gonna start showing up in Bant and be a house.
(Standard) Gisela + Frites is gonna be scary
Just a couple thoughts, I could be totally wrong (in fact I usually am.)
T2 Lightning Mauler (no pairing), swing with champion for 2
T3 Silverblade Paladin paired with Lightning Mauler, swing with everyone for 3+4+4 = 11+2 = 13
Seems ok.
Um... Chain Lightning has something to say about that comment.
Imagine Vexing Devil against say Maverick (since Maverick is so popular right now)
On the play, turn 1 you play Vexing Devil, your opponent looks at their hand, either they have a Swords to Plowshares or they don't, they're not gonna have a blocker that can trade with this guy for a while. They could go fetchland-Noble-fetchland-Knight of the Reliquary, in which case you got 4 damage in but then they can't swing with their Knight which is good for you. Or they could turn 1 Mother of Runes, take a hit for 4 then they could block, tap for pro red, but then they're wasting their MOM activation every turn. Even if they do Swords him before you swing, then Vexing Devil says R: target opponent discards a card and you gain 4 life, which isn't half bad against Maverick. Mathematically in legacy Burn you need to be dealing 3 damage every time you tap a mountain, this guy has the potential of putting you ahead of the curve. Whether or not this can happen consistently with this guy or not needs to be tested.
But to outright say he's bad because he has the words "opponent" and "choose" printed on him is just dumb and comparisons to Browbeat are also just dumb
I think this guy is great, him plus the red miracle in a RU burn deck (blue for delver and brainstorm) is definitely something I'd like to try.
4 Vedalken Certarch
3 Etherium Sculptor
4 Grand Architect
4 Treasure Mage
4 Master Transmuter
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Triskelion
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Everflowing Chalice
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Tumble Magnet
Lands
2 Academy Ruins
4 Inkmoth Nexux
15 Island
2 Mystifying Maze
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Aether Spellbomb
3 Mana Leak
3 Spellskite
2 Trinket Mage
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Mindslaver
1 Platinum Emperion
It should be pretty obvious what this deck is trying to do, so thoughts and criticisms please.
Ardent Plea is the superior choice because you are usually only swinging with one creature at a time, so the exalted really helps. Imagine T3 Ardent Plea --> T4 Bloodbraid into another Ardent Plea swing with a 5/4 haste guy. Plus is pairs up well with Elspeth, you can do some serious damage and leave your other creatures back to block for you PW's.
I think this is one of those lists you just have to try in order to get sense for it. There's lot's of CA from your cascades, the combination of spreading seas + Ajani Vengeant + Frost Titan can really screw with your opponent's mana base, which is the most powerful thing this deck does. Unlike other lists that attack mana bases, this one doesn't trade card for card, all the angles you hit their mana with net you some advantage. Even against Esper Gifts, spreading seas + ajani really ruins their day.
Also, this deck works at such weird angels that your opponent tends to have a hard time responding.
Even though it's a clunky sorcery speed deck, it takes a lot of skill to pilot. Try it out, it's quirky and fun.
@sisorus
I'll be playtesting next Thursday against a variety of decks, including Zoo. I'll post a report.
4 Coiling Oracle
3 Rhox War Monk
4 Blodbraid Elf
2 Frost Titan
Enchantments
4 Spreading Seas
4 Ardent Plea
2 Oblivion Ring
Spells
2 Research // Development
2 Wrath of God
Planeswalkers
3 Ajani Vengeant
3 Elspeht, Knight-Errant
3 Arid Mesa
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Jungle Shrine
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
3 Plains
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Seaside Citadel
1 Stomping Ground
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Meddling Mage
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Runed Halo
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Trygon Predator
1 Wrath of God
Before you make fun of the mana base, it works, just trust me on that. I adapted this deck from one I used to play during SOA/ZEN standard. I piloted this with very consistent success against Jund, Bant Conscription, Pyromancer's Ascension, Boss Naya, RDW (back when this was a good deck), Superfriends, and so on. I've only tested this against Esper Gifts so far, but it's performed very solidly.
I used to run Sphinx of Jwar Isle as my finisher, this deck really needs a good evasive and hard to kill creature as its heavy, Frost Titan seemed a good upgrade but if there are any other suggestions I'd like to hear them. This deck may look goofy but it packs a pretty serious punch.
Druidic Satchel is weird to play with, you certainly don't slam it down on T3, but against control it is really good. It's a late-game piece, either getting you to draw fewer lands (it's most important use), dropping tiny little bodies to either wear a sword or get sacced to a mortarpod for some extra damage, or gain life (which is not irrelevant especially if you've stabalized against RDW or Delver.)
Liliana is another interesting card to play with. I know that I don't have much graveyard interaction, but both of my matches against control were singlehandedly won by her. Yes, you might end up pitching a beater, but control lives and dies by the cards in their hand. If you and the control player are topdecking then you're on the winning side of that deal. I really don't think you have to "build around her" in order to get value out of the card.
The curve is awkward, but the early game consists of "fencing" as it were with your opponent with removal and such and then setting up for a finisher of some kind. With Bloodgift as a great bit of fuel for the late game.
I've added Kessig since Friday and it's been good when I've drawn it.
R1: Liquid Metal Control
R2: U/R Delver
R3: Esper Control
R4: U/B Control
Here's the list, it's a blast to play and really rewards you for making good choices.
4 Viridian Emissary
1 Glissa the Traitor
1 Bloodline Keeper
2 Olivia Volderan
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Bloodgift Demon
1 Urabrask, the Hidden
1 Grave Titan
2 Inferno Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Spells
3 Galvanic Blast
1 Go for the Throat
2 Doom Blade
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Mortarpod
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Druidic Satchel
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull
Planeswalkers
2 Lilliana of the Vail
1 Garruk Relentless
Lands
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Dragonskull Summit
5 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Rootbound Crag
4 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Ancient Grudge
1 Beast Within
1 Slagstorm
1 Tribute to Hunger
1 Tree of Redemption
1 Acidic Slime
1 Bitterheart Witch
2 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Sorin Markov
1 Blasphemous Act
Quick notes:
- Mortarpod is amazing right now, you should be playing it. Remember that is gives +0/+1 to your 3 toughness guys (Glissa, Olivia, and Bloodline Keeper which gets them out of Slagstorm range.)
- Druidic Satchel is a bizarre card, you'd be surprised how good it is.
- Curse of Death's Hold is amazing against Nexus decks.
- Sorin Markov is just plain funny out of the board.
- Liliana is amazing, I don't know why more decks aren't playing her, she is just that good.