Still inviting people to consider the possibility that <> is not a new mana symbol representing colorless mana as we know it today.
I haven't yet heard an argument yet for why a <> cost cannot represent a cost with reminder text (<> can can be paid with any two mana or with <>). The only thing that's been said is that there's no reminder text on Kozilek or Mirrorpool. Which there isn't a precedent for considering mythic rarity didn't exist last time was printed (in Shadowmoor) and no mythics were printed that had .
A reminder of how this possibility would work:
- <> cost can be paid with any two mana or with <>.
- <> mana can pay for <> cost or 1.
- For example, in this possibility Kozilek, the Great Distortion could be paid with eight white mana and two <>, or with twelve white mana, or with 12.
I believe this is a reasonable possibility for a number of reasons:
- It's elegant in its simplicity.
- It does not cause mass oracle texting of any card that included colorless mana production in the past.
- It provides a solid reason why <> mana and the land that produce it exist--it rewards players for using <> mana by allowing a "reduced" cost.
- In the true spirit of a "colorless" card, this possibility allows all colors to still cast these spells and activate these abilities that have <> costs.
- It allows for <> to be a one-set mechanic, but generic enough that it could be brought back (like , , or ) or even made evergreen.
I feel like this should be stickied somewhere for all to read lol.
Except that that information is not confirmed, has many issues, and there exist alternate possibilities that fit better...hucka among others is merely speaking as though this information is confirmed.
I don't see this being correct. I agree this is a specific type of colorless, but I don't see it replacing the colorless mana symbol. Plenty of cards tap for 1, this mana is colorless and it's pretty easy to tell. <> is adding another layer of complexity for new players, a lot more so than the simple 1. And it seems like a big, rules-affecting change for the second set in a block, where cards in the first tap for 1, not to mention the 20+ years of old cards that would need to be changed.
well, factually wrong as explained earlier
<> isn't replacing the colorless mana symbol. Which part am I wrong about?
The part about this not being a 6th color for converge? Colorless is not a color.
The part about this being a rules change affecting 20+ years of cards if it replaces the colorless mana symbol? So now Boreal Druid and Strip Mine produce <>? Not likely
The part about cards producing 1 in BFZ? Hello Ally Encampment, now you produce <> too?
The part about it being more complex to new players? New players would never realize you could cast Kozilek from Strip Mines, Boreal Druids, and Ally Encampments.
Looking at all the theories, the one that <> is payable by <> or 2 seems to make the most sense flavor-wise. Eldrazi are monstrous brutes and I can see them costing more when not running their preferred lands, but, as colorless creatures, are still able to be cast using any type of mana. Not sure though about the last point, as devoid already made it so colorless creatures can't be be fitted in just any deck.
This is what I'm attempting to convey. That "<>" costs can be paid two ways, similar to how phyrexian or hybrid mana could be paid two ways. And that "<>" mana can pay two costs: 1 or "<>"
To use new Kozilek, the Great Distortion as an example, I'm suggesting that his cost could be paid with 8<><> OR 12 of any color mana OR 12 non-<> colorless mana.
just like you are required to run a green manasource to cast something with G in its cost
same thing
At that rate, it's functionally no different than adding a 6th color, except for the fact that these cards would be called and treated as "colorless" without the ability to use any mana type for them.
For these and other reasons, can we discuss the possibility that "<>" costs could be paid for with "<>" mana OR other mana? It makes way more logistic sense than most of these other explanations.
Darksteel Citadel cant add a 6th color. but it can add colorless and thus <>
I'm not sure what your statement is trying to convey, but I'll clarify anyway: It's rather...dumb, for lack of a better word, for WOTC to add "<>" as a mana type IF there are costs that can ONLY be paid for with "<>" mana. The "<>" mana might as well be "purple mana" or some other color, is my point. It would function the same exact way, except that the cards that have that cost are colorless.
My point is that it seems likelier that "<>" costs can still be paid with colored or colorless mana of all types, but can ALSO be paid for with "<>" mana. That way, in the true spirit of a colorless card, you can cast the card with mana of any type...BUT you're encouraged to pay "<>" for it because you receive some benefit, such as in my example. Which as a reminder was that "<>" costs could be paid with one "<>" mana or two of any other type of mana.
In this example, "<>" mana could be used to pay for 1 or "<>" costs, and "<>" costs could be paid for with "<>" or two of any other type of mana. I can't think of a way that this doesn't work mechanically, flavorfully, or would need to cause any errata to any card.
just like you are required to run a green manasource to cast something with G in its cost
same thing
At that rate, it's functionally no different than adding a 6th color, except for the fact that these cards would be called and treated as "colorless" without the ability to use any mana type for them.
For these and other reasons, can we discuss the possibility that "<>" costs could be paid for with "<>" mana OR other mana? It makes way more logistic sense than most of these other explanations.
I am very excited at the prospect of this new mana functioning as someone earlier suggested it might: <> can be paid for with "<> mana" or two of any other type of mana.
That would mean that <> cards could still be played as colorless in all the same ways, but you gain a benefit (reduced cost) from casting them with Wastes.
The more I think about it, the more viable this seems. It just makes sense, unlike many of the other proposed functionalities.
Hello! LGS worker here. At our store, we run 2HG at least once a month, sometimes more. It is always scheduled ahead of time, so people know that a partner is required to play. Most people show up with a partner. Some people do come by themselves and hope that there is another lone player. If we see that there are multiple lone players, we will introduce them and they can pair if they want. But the vast majority of players come prepared with a partner and it's usually a non-issue. Hope that sheds some light on how 2HG tournaments work.
So the question is, why did they cut Fat pack supply this time? Literally only sensible reason I can think of is they needed the printers who produce the fatpacks to print more of another product. *cough commander or next summer set* than usual.
I don't know that they cut Fat Pack supply. Fat packs are dissimilar to booster packs in that they are not printed to demand. There always is a limited supply. I believe it's merely that the demand for these Fat Packs is much greater and I'm unsure that they have made/will make more Fat Packs than they typically do for a set.
I know that we don't typically take our full allocation of Fat Packs because some go and then we have some on hand, but we never NEED the full allocation and I'm sure many other stores are the same. For BFZ, we did take our full allocation. It will not be enough to sate the demand I've received for them and there's really nothing further we can do. When they're gone, they're gone. Barring a second wave or the ability to pick up straggler packs that other stores did not take.
Not implying a lack of understanding, but to be clear, stores do have limited allocations from distributors as well. For example, if they'll get their product a week before and it's, say, 10 cases...They'll need to set aside those that were preordered and then be sure to allocate enough for their given events that week including prize support for those events. It can get tight even if a store takes full allocation. There's a lot of demand to be had, limited product in a given timeframe, and we really do try to get as much product to you guys as possible. There's just a lot of juggling.
I am a Mono-Black Control EDH player, and i am absolutely replacing Skeletal Scrying for Damnable Pact. Without a second thought. I utilize my graveyard a lot for recursion and exiling my trash with Skeletal Scrying always feels awkward. The fact that this acts as draw for me or a drain spell for your opponent in a single card, as well as not requiring exiling from your graveyard, in my opinion, far outweighs that Skeletal Scrying is instant.
To be clear, I can tell you that I will almost always use this to outright kill players. The fact that it could also draw me cards if I need it is a bonus, frankly.
I haven't yet heard an argument yet for why a <> cost cannot represent a cost with reminder text (<> can can be paid with any two mana or with <>). The only thing that's been said is that there's no reminder text on Kozilek or Mirrorpool. Which there isn't a precedent for considering mythic rarity didn't exist last time was printed (in Shadowmoor) and no mythics were printed that had .
A reminder of how this possibility would work:
- <> cost can be paid with any two mana or with <>.
- <> mana can pay for <> cost or 1.
- For example, in this possibility Kozilek, the Great Distortion could be paid with eight white mana and two <>, or with twelve white mana, or with 12.
I believe this is a reasonable possibility for a number of reasons:
- It's elegant in its simplicity.
- It does not cause mass oracle texting of any card that included colorless mana production in the past.
- It provides a solid reason why <> mana and the land that produce it exist--it rewards players for using <> mana by allowing a "reduced" cost.
- In the true spirit of a "colorless" card, this possibility allows all colors to still cast these spells and activate these abilities that have <> costs.
- It allows for <> to be a one-set mechanic, but generic enough that it could be brought back (like , , or ) or even made evergreen.
Except that that information is not confirmed, has many issues, and there exist alternate possibilities that fit better...hucka among others is merely speaking as though this information is confirmed.
Which is why IMO the third "<> as a cost is payable multiple ways" and "<> as mana is spendable multiple ways" theory is more viable.
This is what I'm attempting to convey. That "<>" costs can be paid two ways, similar to how phyrexian or hybrid mana could be paid two ways. And that "<>" mana can pay two costs: 1 or "<>"
To use new Kozilek, the Great Distortion as an example, I'm suggesting that his cost could be paid with 8<><> OR 12 of any color mana OR 12 non-<> colorless mana.
I'm not sure what your statement is trying to convey, but I'll clarify anyway: It's rather...dumb, for lack of a better word, for WOTC to add "<>" as a mana type IF there are costs that can ONLY be paid for with "<>" mana. The "<>" mana might as well be "purple mana" or some other color, is my point. It would function the same exact way, except that the cards that have that cost are colorless.
My point is that it seems likelier that "<>" costs can still be paid with colored or colorless mana of all types, but can ALSO be paid for with "<>" mana. That way, in the true spirit of a colorless card, you can cast the card with mana of any type...BUT you're encouraged to pay "<>" for it because you receive some benefit, such as in my example. Which as a reminder was that "<>" costs could be paid with one "<>" mana or two of any other type of mana.
In this example, "<>" mana could be used to pay for 1 or "<>" costs, and "<>" costs could be paid for with "<>" or two of any other type of mana. I can't think of a way that this doesn't work mechanically, flavorfully, or would need to cause any errata to any card.
At that rate, it's functionally no different than adding a 6th color, except for the fact that these cards would be called and treated as "colorless" without the ability to use any mana type for them.
For these and other reasons, can we discuss the possibility that "<>" costs could be paid for with "<>" mana OR other mana? It makes way more logistic sense than most of these other explanations.
That would mean that <> cards could still be played as colorless in all the same ways, but you gain a benefit (reduced cost) from casting them with Wastes.
The more I think about it, the more viable this seems. It just makes sense, unlike many of the other proposed functionalities.
I don't know that they cut Fat Pack supply. Fat packs are dissimilar to booster packs in that they are not printed to demand. There always is a limited supply. I believe it's merely that the demand for these Fat Packs is much greater and I'm unsure that they have made/will make more Fat Packs than they typically do for a set.
I know that we don't typically take our full allocation of Fat Packs because some go and then we have some on hand, but we never NEED the full allocation and I'm sure many other stores are the same. For BFZ, we did take our full allocation. It will not be enough to sate the demand I've received for them and there's really nothing further we can do. When they're gone, they're gone. Barring a second wave or the ability to pick up straggler packs that other stores did not take.
-An LGS manager
1 Expedition Map (1(3))
1 Demonic Tutor (2)
1 Dimir House Guard (3)
1 Beseech the Queen (3-6)
1 Diabolic Tutor (4)
1 Increasing Ambition (5)
1 Liliana Vess (5)
1 Ring of Three Wishes (5 (10))
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier (5)
1 Diabolic Revelation (6+)
Board Wipes (5):
1 Black Sun's Zenith (3+)
1 Damnation (4)
1 Mutilate (4)
1 Oblivion Stone (3 (8))
1 Decree of Pain (5 or 8)
Spot Removal (10):
1 Slaughter Pact (0)
1 Shriekmaw (5 (2))
1 Chainer's Edict (2 or 7)
1 Dismember (3)
1 Fleshbag Marauder (3)
1 Hero's Downfall (3)
1 Sever the Bloodline (4)
1 Silence the Believers (4)
1 Karn Liberated (7)
1 Scour from Existence (7)
Mana Dumps & Kill Cons (9):
1 Consume Spirit (3+)
1 Damnable Pact (3+)
1 Exsanguinate (3+)
1 Profane Command (3+)
1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals (4+)
1 Corrupt (6)
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault (6 (8+))
1 Josu Vess, Lich Knight (4 (10))
1 Spawnsire of Ulamog (10 (30))
Draw (4):
1 Blasted Landscape (0 (2))
1 Phyrexian Arena (3)
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited (5)
1 Erebos, God of the Dead (4 (6+))
Land Fetch (7):
1 Bloodstained Mire (0)
1 Marsh Flats (0)
1 Polluted Delta (0)
1 Verdant Catacombs (0)
1 Ash Barrens (0 (1))
1 Twisted Abomination (6 (2))
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms (4)
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All (0)
1 Reliquary Tower (0)
1 Vampire Hexmage (2)
1 Staff of Domination (3)
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed (4)
1 Exquisite Blood (5)
1 Orbs of Warding (5)
1 Sorin Markov (6)
Land Ramp/Increased Mana Production (11):
1 Cabal Coffers (0 (2))
1 Deserted Temple (0 (1))
1 Mage-Ring Network (0)
1 Myriad Landscape (0 (2))
1 Temple of the False God (0)
1 Thespian's Stage (0 (2))
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (0)
1 Vesuva (0)
1 Bubbling Muck (1)
1 Burnished Hart (3)
1 Gemstone Array (4)
Recursion (5):
1 Buried Ruin (0 (2))
1 Petrified Field (0)
1 Volrath's Stronghold (0 (2))
1 Phyrexian Reclamation (1 (3+))
1 Crucible of Worlds (3)
Grave Hate (2):
1 Bojuka Bog (0)
1 Faerie Macabre (3 (0))
Land Destruction (1):
1 Strip Mine (0)
Mana Rocks (12):
1 Sol Ring (1)
1 Mind Stone (2)
1 Thought Vessel (2)
1 Charcoal Diamond (2)
1 Doubling Cube (3)
1 Unstable Obelisk (3)
1 Commander's Sphere (3)
1 Worn Powerstone (3)
1 Hedron Archive (4)
1 Thran Dynamo (4)
1 Gilded Lotus (5)
1 Dreamstone Hedron (6)
Basic Lands (16):
16 Swamp (0)
1 Emrakul, the Promised End
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 It That Betrays
1 Desolation Twin
1 Oblivion Sower
1 Void Winnower
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Distended Mindbender
1 All is Dust
March, 2015: Replaced Skeletal Scrying with Damnable Pact.
August, 2015: Replaced Witchbane Orb with Orbs of Warding.
September, 2015: Replaced Swamp with Petrified Field.
September, 2015: Replaced Bond of Agony with Profane Command.
October, 2015: Replaced Swamp with Blighted Fen.
October, 2015: Replaced Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath with Ob Nixilis Reignited.
October, 2015: Replaced Nirkana Revenant with Scour from Existence.
October, 2015: Replaced Swamp with Deserted Temple.
November, 2015: Replaced Crypt Ghast with Bubbling Muck.
November, 2015: Replaced Gray Merchant of Asphodel with Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed.
November, 2015: Replaced Everflowing Chalice with Gemstone Array.
November, 2015: Replaced Ravenous Trap with Faerie Macabre.
November, 2015: Replaced Hex Parasite with Hedron Archive.
November, 2015: Replaced Magus of the Coffers with Doubling Cube.
November, 2015: Replaced Subterranean Hangar with Mage-Ring Network.
November, 2015: Put All is Dust in the eldrazi sideboard. Added Thought Vessel.
November, 2015: Replaced Rune-Scarred Demon with Ring of Three Wishes.
February, 2016: Replaced Tendrils of Corruption with Phyrexian Arena.
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Liliana's Shade
1 Walking Atlas
1 Helldozer
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
1 Hythonia the Cruel
1 Fate Unraveler
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Muck Drubb
1 Disciple of Griselbrand
1 Hex Parasite
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Wild-Field Scarecrow
1 Murder
1 Go for the Throat
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Reckless Spite
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Suffer the Past
Sorceries:
1 Reign of the Pit
1 Bond of Agony
1 Mind Sludge
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Grim Discovery
1 Sign in Blood
1 Appetite for Brains
1 Behold the Beyond
1 Blood Reckoning
1 Heartless Summoning
Artifacts:
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Altar of Shadows
1 Jet Medallion
1 Lashwrithe
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Staff of the Death Magus
1 Ring of Xathrid
1 Chalice of Life
1 Spectral Searchlight
1 Vessel of Endless Rest
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Spine of Ish Sah
Lands:
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Subterranean Hangar
Phyrexian Reclamation + Shriekmaw = recurring spot-removal
Phyrexian Reclamation + Merciless Executioner = recurring sacrifice for all players
Phyrexian Reclamation + Burnished Hart = recurring land ramp
Phyrexian Reclamation + Twisted Abomination = recurring basic land tutor
Phyrexian Reclamation + Sidisi, Undead Vizier = recurring tutor
Phyrexian Reclamation + Dimir House Guard = recurring tutor for cards of 4 CMC
Phyrexian Reclamation + Vampire Hexmage = recurring planeswalker removal
Phyrexian Reclamation + Faerie Macabre = recurring targeted graveyard removal
Phyrexian Reclamation + Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed = recur any black card
Crucible of Worlds Package:
Crucible of Worlds + Buried Ruin + Mind Stone/Hedron Archive/Dreamstone Hedron = recurring draw
Crucible of Worlds + Buried Ruin + Expedition Map = recurring land tutor
Crucible of Worlds + Myriad Landscape = recurring land ramp
Crucible of Worlds + Polluted Delta/Bloodstained Mire/Marsh Flats/Verdant Catacombs = recurring fetch
Crucible of Worlds + Strip Mine = recurring land removal
Crucible of Worlds + Blighted Fen = recurring creature removal
Making lots of mana:
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers = Black mana equal to the number of lands we control
Cabal Coffers + Vesuva/Thespian's Stage/Deserted Temple = multiple Cabal Coffers
To be clear, I can tell you that I will almost always use this to outright kill players. The fact that it could also draw me cards if I need it is a bonus, frankly.
Are we certain that the Ugin alt-art promo (or any of them, for that matter) is nonfoil?