Uh, Rith? Rith, the Awakener I have a token deck with that guy as general. You gain quite a few straight broken enchantments in red, if Rith's ability isn't a strong enough sell for you.
I'm benching Fish for a while in favor of MUC, but I made a list that is basically the same thing I was running (and loved) with Grand A instead of Sovereign, and then adding a couple Masticores as win cons. I only ever used Sovereign as a Lord and rarely for the unblockable activation, because I rarely had enough fish out to merit tapping two guys for four damage, when there was already a flyer sitting there, looking bored (Commander). I don't have to explain the merits of Grand A to you guys as an adequate replacement (because you all seem to be running all three). And if you don't think the Masticore is gonzo, proxy it up and play around a bit. I suppose you could also run the Wurmcoil instead for a late game power-play, but I personally prefer Mastie.
My experience was that this deck has no game whatsoever without the planeswalkers and celestial colonnades. Others may have had different experiences.
In my experience (for the three weeks of FNM before I added the PWers) the deck went 3-2-0 instead of my past two weeks of 4-1-0. You just play it a little tighter. Those five slots will probably go towards a few more creatures (although none are all that strong) and a few more main-deck counterspells. My 2 cents.
My last FNM went eerily similar to Bankai's. I played Sisters and Valakut which are really the strongest decks it looks like either of us faced last week. I lost to Valakut (G/R/W though) and beat Soul Sisters. My list differs in that I swap:
-2 Gideon, +2 Elspeth
-2 Island, +2 Arid Mesa
and my SB is :
4 x Negate
3 x Flashfreeze
3 x Day of Judgement
3 x Relic of Progenitus
2 x Celestial Purge
I lost to Valakut because I was just out gunned, totally and irrevocably. I scooped both games.
I beat Sisters by doing just what I said a page or so ago, and what Bankai repeats above. You have to hold on for dear life, control what you can, influence what you can't, and switch the tempo (essentially your game plan, and the main strength of this deck coincidentally) up frequently depending on draws and what you are allowing your opponent to do during their turns. Getting Sejiri online early is a must (which is why I effectively run 2 extra plains) and then you just sit behind 2 or 3 fish (more or less stopping any attacks) while keeping them off their finishers until you can establish some control. Both games I won coming back from a ~10 to ~40 life deficit. You just have to save your control and "removal" for the really important stuff, so you don't fall prey to a poorly timed BtE, and pay attention to what they'll be running game one (ie: not fearing over-extension), because it'll get worse after boarding.
Hope that helps, don't hesitate with any more specific questions about match-ups or card choices.
It's important that early on in a match, you ascertain what a deck is going to try to do (you're playing control afterall). It's not important to counter everything because you just can't. You have to counter what's important. I let soul sisters build up an army of 1/1s and 2/2s, but never let them resolve a serra's or a pridemate. You have to allow them to spend their resources on filler and never on a win con. Then, when you have room to breath, you drop three fish and get in there (flying/unblockable). That's how I play my fish deck if I'm playing an opp who should be beating me. I'll post a report a little later.
I'll post a report from last night, but just real quick because it might stimulate some discussion: I went 4-1-0 last night. I typically (unless I'm playing against green, or have a sick read on an opp) won't cast a creature until turn four or so. Last night I beat Fauna/vine/gast silliness deck, soul sisters, naya zoo-thing, and some wonky gnarlid deck (I know, right?) 2-0. The deck is good because you can do whatever you need to with it. I lost to Primeval.pileofgreat deck (double scoop).
The best part about the deck is that it is very flexible and responsive. While the leyline does create a little more flexibility I guess, I really don't feel it has a place. It just doesn't do enough to dedicate the 4 slots you would need to pull off a T0 drop. I enjoy when my opponents play leyline of anticipation. I enjoy it.
Alright. I've tried this deck two ways, and one works with PWer's (and is better, haha) and one 'works' fine w/o them.
The "budget" version ran a few more creatures, ~22 as opposed to 16 and less land. The curve topped at 1UU and I ran 22 lands. Because there were so few, I ran Refuge instead of Collonade, because activating the Collonade while keeping counter open would not ever occur. This deck worked fine for FNM and cost about 25$ to put together from scratch.
I've been playing what has become known as Bankai's list more or less lately. It is a lot more competitive and consistent (which is probably the same thing) but takes a lot more practice to master. Its tempo nature makes JMS and the manlands a must, but I've found Elspeth to be a little better suited for me than Gideon (which is really probably worse from a deck-cost standpoint, rotation, etc).
The list I'm running now runs neither pte or anything like it, simply into the roil and counter magic. I'm currently trying to figure out a SB strat that will remedy this and not make me punt my Mythic match-up before I leave my house for the store. Hope that helps a little. Keep the questions/discussion coming!!
@ Bankai. I have to bow to your experience playing this list, cause I only have about two weeks under my belt, but for me, Elspeth is really working out better. Like you said, it really has the most to do with what direction you want the top of the curve to go. I just found myself holding onto a Gideon in hand because if my opponents were playing creatures, mine weren't big enough to rationalize forcing a +2 strike to weed out their board with blocks. Further, I think the 1cc cheaper Elspeth just fits the bill better just in terms of curve.
As for Ascension, I played the death out of Wescoe's WW list at the beginning of the year, I played Lum. Asc. as a three of in the SB for a while before I really got it enough time in game to realize it was super under-whelming. Really, if your opponent is leaving you alone for that long (I know, but control decks...) you should be pounding faces by the time that enchantment is online. And further, if you are siding it in for a control deck, they are just going to fake sweat at you while you add counters just to bounce/ring it when it goes online. I think I've made an ascension drop me angels two or three times in competitive play, and I needed them none at all. Just mah 2 cents.
I've been playing Bankai's list for a bit and it really is the best iteration I've played thus far. I'd always discredited into the roil until I spent time with this list. It really is a boon to this type of deck, where providing your opponent with a false sense of security will keep them off board wipe, or powerful spot removal until you can alter the board enough for lethal. The only qualm I have with the list is I find myself taking Gideon out every game. My fnm is one of the largest (often the largest) in my state, and as such it's quite competitive. That being said, the only Tier One deck I played Friday was Valakut Titan. I went 5-0 with Bankai's, but I'm still looking for some solid advice on Jura replacement options. Ideas?
edit: I'm going to give a 2-of Elspeth a test drive, the cc seems a lot friendlier, and her abilities much more broadly relevant.
I play a U/W build for path and o-ring and seriji merfolk (the board for white is also a boon, as playing both condemn and path against RDW and Next Level Bant is a blow out). It is my favorite build so far, and the only one I've had any success with in testing. The meta at my FNM's is fairly competitive, and the turn-outs are typically in the fifties. I run 9 main board counters (a boat of Leak, 3 negate, 2 deprive ((3 freeze in the sb))) and wish I could run more. The only problem I've come across so far is no card advantage, but I'm thinking of replacing 3 scroll thief with ingenuity or something. Anyone else test U/W at all to any success at FNM's?
In my experience (for the three weeks of FNM before I added the PWers) the deck went 3-2-0 instead of my past two weeks of 4-1-0. You just play it a little tighter. Those five slots will probably go towards a few more creatures (although none are all that strong) and a few more main-deck counterspells. My 2 cents.
-2 Gideon, +2 Elspeth
-2 Island, +2 Arid Mesa
and my SB is :
4 x Negate
3 x Flashfreeze
3 x Day of Judgement
3 x Relic of Progenitus
2 x Celestial Purge
I lost to Valakut because I was just out gunned, totally and irrevocably. I scooped both games.
I beat Sisters by doing just what I said a page or so ago, and what Bankai repeats above. You have to hold on for dear life, control what you can, influence what you can't, and switch the tempo (essentially your game plan, and the main strength of this deck coincidentally) up frequently depending on draws and what you are allowing your opponent to do during their turns. Getting Sejiri online early is a must (which is why I effectively run 2 extra plains) and then you just sit behind 2 or 3 fish (more or less stopping any attacks) while keeping them off their finishers until you can establish some control. Both games I won coming back from a ~10 to ~40 life deficit. You just have to save your control and "removal" for the really important stuff, so you don't fall prey to a poorly timed BtE, and pay attention to what they'll be running game one (ie: not fearing over-extension), because it'll get worse after boarding.
Hope that helps, don't hesitate with any more specific questions about match-ups or card choices.
P.S. Don't cast JMS turn four.
The "budget" version ran a few more creatures, ~22 as opposed to 16 and less land. The curve topped at 1UU and I ran 22 lands. Because there were so few, I ran Refuge instead of Collonade, because activating the Collonade while keeping counter open would not ever occur. This deck worked fine for FNM and cost about 25$ to put together from scratch.
I've been playing what has become known as Bankai's list more or less lately. It is a lot more competitive and consistent (which is probably the same thing) but takes a lot more practice to master. Its tempo nature makes JMS and the manlands a must, but I've found Elspeth to be a little better suited for me than Gideon (which is really probably worse from a deck-cost standpoint, rotation, etc).
The list I'm running now runs neither pte or anything like it, simply into the roil and counter magic. I'm currently trying to figure out a SB strat that will remedy this and not make me punt my Mythic match-up before I leave my house for the store. Hope that helps a little. Keep the questions/discussion coming!!
As for Ascension, I played the death out of Wescoe's WW list at the beginning of the year, I played Lum. Asc. as a three of in the SB for a while before I really got it enough time in game to realize it was super under-whelming. Really, if your opponent is leaving you alone for that long (I know, but control decks...) you should be pounding faces by the time that enchantment is online. And further, if you are siding it in for a control deck, they are just going to fake sweat at you while you add counters just to bounce/ring it when it goes online. I think I've made an ascension drop me angels two or three times in competitive play, and I needed them none at all. Just mah 2 cents.
edit: I'm going to give a 2-of Elspeth a test drive, the cc seems a lot friendlier, and her abilities much more broadly relevant.