I feel like 3 playsets of 1cmc creatures is too much, at least with 21 Land. Has Ethereal Armor proven useful with only 10 enchantments mainboard? I might suggest pulling -4 Hopeful Eidolon for +4 Akroan Hoplite. Akroan Hoplites jive better with Calvary Pegasus and helps you explode early. Removing Eidolons weakens Ethereal, so I'd -4 Ethereal Armor for +4 Swift Justice / Titan's Strength / Coordinated Assault.
I really like this list, and it reminds me of my deck construction.
For me, my AnC was Daxos of Meletis. I really wanted to play him, he seemed neat, but after some testing I didn't like him. And I also started seeing the power of enchantments and started putting more and more in, haha.
I admit I didn't put much thought into AnC, and I think this new list looks really good. If you go to FNM this week, be sure to post results! I'm interested in playing W/r just for a change of pace.
@Ruzhyo I would definitely suggest moving Soldier of the Pantheon and Imposing Sovereign to your sideboard. They seem too situational to be mainboard imo. Instead put Anax and Cymede and Chained to the Rocks mainboard. Also you may want to consider running Ethereal Armor, it is a powerhouse in my deck, but that's probably because I run 18 enchantments mainboard, haha
I managed to get my first 4-0 at my FNM out of 24 people with this list:
Hidden Strings is one of the more important cards in this deck. It's played like this:
T1: Plains -> Favored Hoplite
T2: Island -> Cast Hidden Strings targeting the two land you used to cast it and cipher to Hoplite -> attach both Etheral Armor and aqueous form (he is now a 6/7 first strike, unblockable) -> swing, scry 1 -> cast a copy of Hidden Strings targeting your land if you have a two drop to play 2nd main, otherwise target the Hoplite and 1 land. you now have a 7/8 First Strike untapped Hoplite on the board and you're opponent has ~2 more turns to remove it.
Or you can tap down enemies creatures when you first play it. It's incredibly versatile
Daxos never seemed that useful to me. What really turns me off from him is I discovered you can't play your opponents land with him (I thought he was more like [CARD]
Nightveil Specter[/CARD]. So if you pull land with him, which happens fairly often, there's no lifegain or card advantage. I will probably not use him again.
Ordeals are very useful if you can sac them. My opponents would always manage to remove them and my creature, even if I played them the turn I would sac them. Maybe I'm just playing too many control decks, but I don't like putting my only card draw in a position to be 2 for 1'd. I haven't given up on this card though, I'm still considering playing them.
I actually really like Lyev Skynight, and will probably playtest them more in the future. 3 cmc and it does something useful when it hits the board. I would probably want to run Bioshift along side to move counters into the air.
I've thought about Adjani, and he'd probably replace Fabled Hero. I think he's worth a playtest for sure.
All of these changes would probably be instead of Triton Fortune Hunter because I'm pretty attached to my other 3cmc drops. Thassa, God of the Sea is extremely useful here. I never plan to get her online, but her scry 1 at upkeep is amazing, plus she can help multiple threats get through for a finisher.
Round 3: Some weird Gruul with a splash of blue. Game 1 he got mana/mana-dork swamped without much of a fight. Game 2 he pulled more of his Burning-Tree Emissarys, Stormbreath Dragon, Deadbridge Goliath, and strangely a Prime Speaker Zegana. He was forced to chump one of my fatties with his Goliath, but I didn't even think of him scavenging onto his stormmbreath. It didn't cost me the game, but he would've won had the game gone one more turn.
Round 4: U/r Master of Waves. His deck consisted of Izzet Charms, Thassa, God of the Sea, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Frostburn Weirds, and of course Master of Waves. Game 1 I lost in a close match. He went first so he was able to keep my board mostly clear until dropping a Master. He eventually killed me with Purphoros triggers and board presence. Game 2/3 I sideboarded in Detention Spheres and Banisher Priests. I was able to draw both, putting two frostburn weirds in detention and banishing one master. Thassa fixed my draws since T3, and all the enchantments buffed my main fatty quite a bit. Game 3 was similar. I drew my removal for his Masters, and protected my stuff early with Triton Tactics.
Overall, my first thoughts are to mainboard Detention Sphere. Also I'm not too hip on the Bident and Spear in Sideboard, I just didn't have much else to fill it up. I should probably find some Rootborn Defenses. I was also running Bioshifts, but I feel Triton Tactics is useful in more situations. I would run both, but I don't have room for any more instants if I am focusing on buffing Ethereal Armor with enchantments.
Round 3: Some weird Gruul with a splash of blue. Game 1 he got mana/mana-dork swamped without much of a fight. Game 2 he pulled more of his Burning-Tree Emissarys, Stormbreath Dragon, Deadbridge Goliath, and strangely a Prime Speaker Zegana. He was forced to chump one of my fatties with his Goliath, but I didn't even think of him scavenging onto his stormmbreath. It didn't cost me the game, but he would've won had the game gone one more turn.
Round 4: U/r Master of Waves. His deck consisted of Izzet Charms, Thassa, God of the Sea, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Frostburn Weirds, and of course Master of Waves. Game 1 I lost in a close match. He went first so he was able to keep my board mostly clear until dropping a Master. He eventually killed me with Purphoros triggers and board presence. Game 2/3 I sideboarded in Detention Spheres and Banisher Priests. I was able to draw both, putting two frostburn weirds in detention and banishing one master. Thassa fixed my draws since T3, and all the enchantments buffed my main fatty quite a bit. Game 3 was similar. I drew my removal for his Masters, and protected my stuff early with Triton Tactics.
Overall, my first thoughts are to mainboard Detention Sphere. Also I'm not too hip on the Bident and Spear in Sideboard, I just didn't have much else to fill it up. I should probably find some Rootborn Defenses.
I have a few Prognostic Sphinxs lying around myself, I may play test them a bit for the mid/late game fixing.
As for Triton Fortune Hunter, I kind of like that my card draw isn't a threat though, so the opponent will be forced to remove my real threats first while I hopefully draw more threats with his heroic procs.
I'm not THAT sold on him either, but I didn't enjoy my play testing with Ordeal of Thassa as my only card draw. When I put my only source of card draw on a threat, it just makes their removal that much more valuable. I see you're running 2 Mizzium Skins mainboard, which probably helps protect your card draw. I understand that you should drop your ordeals the turn you plan to sacrifice them, but even then they seem to be removed too frequently. Maybe I'm just playing too many control opponents
I actually changed up my deck pretty soon after posting my list, but I'll just post what I actually run at FNM with the results later.
Triton Tactics already does all that without Nivmagus Elemental in the equation. His only use in that scenario is to trade an incredibly powerful combat trick for 2 +1/1 counters. I'd rather use Triton Tactics to lock down, or even kill your opponents attackers. Counters mean nothing if you can't get damage past blockers.
Since Nivmagus Elemental is not required to proc a heroic ability, the only thing it's doing is trading the spell resolving for 2 1/1 counters. More times than not, I'd much rather have spells resolve.
To its credit, Nivmagus Elemental does give your deck more depth with just having the option to eat spells. I just can't justify taking out Favored Hoplite or Hopeful Eidolon of mainboard. Fitting him in elsewhere would just be too many 1 drops.
It would be only useful against certain opponents, that's why it's sideboard material in my opinion.
Here's the List
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Judge's Familiar
2 Triton Fortune Hunter
4 Phalanx Leader
3 Fabled Hero
4 Battlewise Hoplite
Spells(11)
3 Hidden Strings
4 Gods Willing
4 Triton Tactics
4 Aqueous Form
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Bident of Thassa
Land(21)
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
8 Plains
7 Island
2 Detention Sphere
2 Daxos of Meletis
4 Mizzium Skin
4 Azorius Charm
1 Rootborn Defenses
2 Banisher Priest
*Edit: All of your Ethereal Armor / Bestowed Hopeful Eidolon falls off if you call prot white with Brave the Elements.
I'll post FNM results if I go this week.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/wu-hidden-heroes-4-0-fnm/
I really like this list, and it reminds me of my deck construction.
For me, my AnC was Daxos of Meletis. I really wanted to play him, he seemed neat, but after some testing I didn't like him. And I also started seeing the power of enchantments and started putting more and more in, haha.
I admit I didn't put much thought into AnC, and I think this new list looks really good. If you go to FNM this week, be sure to post results! I'm interested in playing W/r just for a change of pace.
I managed to get my first 4-0 at my FNM out of 24 people with this list:
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Phalanx Leader
2 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Fabled Hero
Enchantments (14+(4))
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Ordeal of Thassa
2 Aqueous Form
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
2 Detention Sphere
3 Gods Willing
3 Triton Tactics
Sorcery (3)
3 Hidden Strings
Land (21)
4 Hallowed Fountain
10 Plains
7 Island
1 Brave the Elements
3 Celestial Flare
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Artisan of Forms
2 Banisher Priest
2 Spear of Heliod
1 Bident of Thassa
2 Gift of Orzhova
Round 1: Golgari Desecration Demon (2-1)
Round 2: Selesnya Aggro (2-0)
Round 3: 3/5 color Slivers (2-1)
Round 4: Gruul Devotion (2-0)
I plan to put in Rootborn Defenses instead of Celestial Flare in my SB.
Most of your sideboard is self-explanatory, but which opponents call for the Judge's Familiars or Gift of Orzhovas to be mainboarded?
I suppose maybe the Gifts are for putting damage in the air, probably vs RDW/AIR, and the Familiars are for postponing removal vs Izzet/Orzhov/MonoB.
When do you find them most useful?
T1: Plains -> Favored Hoplite
T2: Island -> Cast Hidden Strings targeting the two land you used to cast it and cipher to Hoplite -> attach both Etheral Armor and aqueous form (he is now a 6/7 first strike, unblockable) -> swing, scry 1 -> cast a copy of Hidden Strings targeting your land if you have a two drop to play 2nd main, otherwise target the Hoplite and 1 land. you now have a 7/8 First Strike untapped Hoplite on the board and you're opponent has ~2 more turns to remove it.
Or you can tap down enemies creatures when you first play it. It's incredibly versatile
I have tested Daxos of Meletis, ordeal of thassa, and Lyev Skynight.
Daxos never seemed that useful to me. What really turns me off from him is I discovered you can't play your opponents land with him (I thought he was more like [CARD]
Nightveil Specter[/CARD]. So if you pull land with him, which happens fairly often, there's no lifegain or card advantage. I will probably not use him again.
Ordeals are very useful if you can sac them. My opponents would always manage to remove them and my creature, even if I played them the turn I would sac them. Maybe I'm just playing too many control decks, but I don't like putting my only card draw in a position to be 2 for 1'd. I haven't given up on this card though, I'm still considering playing them.
I actually really like Lyev Skynight, and will probably playtest them more in the future. 3 cmc and it does something useful when it hits the board. I would probably want to run Bioshift along side to move counters into the air.
Artisan of Forms is mostly used for blocking enemy threats. When a Desecration Demon swings at you, just cast a Gods Willing or Triton Tactics, make a copy of it, and block with a stronger copy.
I've thought about Adjani, and he'd probably replace Fabled Hero. I think he's worth a playtest for sure.
All of these changes would probably be instead of Triton Fortune Hunter because I'm pretty attached to my other 3cmc drops. Thassa, God of the Sea is extremely useful here. I never plan to get her online, but her scry 1 at upkeep is amazing, plus she can help multiple threats get through for a finisher.
This list and I went 3-1 last night:
3 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Favored Hoplite
2 Artisan of Forms
3 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Fabled Hero
2 Triton Fortune Hunter
3 Phalanx Leader
Enchantments (10)
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Aqueous Form
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Gods Willing
1 Brave the Elements
3 Triton Tactics
Sorcery (3)
3 Hidden Strings
Land (22)
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
10 Plains
6 Island
2 Detention Sphere
3 Celestial Flare
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Swan Song
2 Silence
2 Banisher Priest
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Bident of Thassa
Round 1: My opponent was ~12 years old, he was running a really janky orzhova deck, not worth mentioning details. I felt guilty winning 2-0
Round 2: Mono Black devotion. I won game 1 after I swung for 18 unbockable turn 5. My board was 1 Fabled Hero with 2 Aqueous Forms and an Ethereal Armor attached to it. I also had a Hopeful Eidolon on the board just to buff Ethereal. Game 2 I think he sideboarded in a lot of removal because my first 3 or 4 creatures died to Doom Blades, Hero's Downfalls, and Thoughtseizes. I managed to get him to ~10 before he dropped 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodels in a row for 7, then 9. Game 3 was fairly close, more Thoughtseizes and Gray Merchant of Asphodels but less removal. Desecration Demon was just win more. 1-2
Round 3: Some weird Gruul with a splash of blue. Game 1 he got mana/mana-dork swamped without much of a fight. Game 2 he pulled more of his Burning-Tree Emissarys, Stormbreath Dragon, Deadbridge Goliath, and strangely a Prime Speaker Zegana. He was forced to chump one of my fatties with his Goliath, but I didn't even think of him scavenging onto his stormmbreath. It didn't cost me the game, but he would've won had the game gone one more turn.
Round 4: U/r Master of Waves. His deck consisted of Izzet Charms, Thassa, God of the Sea, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Frostburn Weirds, and of course Master of Waves. Game 1 I lost in a close match. He went first so he was able to keep my board mostly clear until dropping a Master. He eventually killed me with Purphoros triggers and board presence. Game 2/3 I sideboarded in Detention Spheres and Banisher Priests. I was able to draw both, putting two frostburn weirds in detention and banishing one master. Thassa fixed my draws since T3, and all the enchantments buffed my main fatty quite a bit. Game 3 was similar. I drew my removal for his Masters, and protected my stuff early with Triton Tactics.
Overall, my first thoughts are to mainboard Detention Sphere. Also I'm not too hip on the Bident and Spear in Sideboard, I just didn't have much else to fill it up. I should probably find some Rootborn Defenses. I was also running Bioshifts, but I feel Triton Tactics is useful in more situations. I would run both, but I don't have room for any more instants if I am focusing on buffing Ethereal Armor with enchantments.
3 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Favored Hoplite
2 Artisan of Forms
3 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Fabled Hero
2 Triton Fortune Hunter
3 Phalanx Leader
Enchantments (10)
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Aqueous Form
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Gods Willing
1 Brave the Elements
3 Triton Tactics
Sorcery (3)
3 Hidden Strings
Land (22)
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
10 Plains
6 Island
2 Detention Sphere
3 Celestial Flare
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Swan Song
2 Silence
2 Banisher Priest
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Bident of Thassa
Round 1: My opponent was ~12 years old, he was running a really janky orzhova deck, not worth mentioning details. I felt guilty winning 2-0
Round 2: Mono Black devotion. I won game 1 after I swung for 18 unbockable turn 5. My board was 1 Fabled Hero with 2 Aqueous Forms and an Ethereal Armor attached to it. I also had a Hopeful Eidolon on the board just to buff Ethereal. Game 2 I think he sideboarded in a lot of removal because my first 3 or 4 creatures died to Doom Blades, Hero's Downfalls, and Thoughtseizes. I managed to get him to ~10 before he dropped 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodels in a row for 7, then 9. Game 3 was fairly close, more Thoughtseizes and Gray Merchant of Asphodels but less removal. Desecration Demon was just win more. 1-2
Round 3: Some weird Gruul with a splash of blue. Game 1 he got mana/mana-dork swamped without much of a fight. Game 2 he pulled more of his Burning-Tree Emissarys, Stormbreath Dragon, Deadbridge Goliath, and strangely a Prime Speaker Zegana. He was forced to chump one of my fatties with his Goliath, but I didn't even think of him scavenging onto his stormmbreath. It didn't cost me the game, but he would've won had the game gone one more turn.
Round 4: U/r Master of Waves. His deck consisted of Izzet Charms, Thassa, God of the Sea, Purphoros, God of the Forge, Frostburn Weirds, and of course Master of Waves. Game 1 I lost in a close match. He went first so he was able to keep my board mostly clear until dropping a Master. He eventually killed me with Purphoros triggers and board presence. Game 2/3 I sideboarded in Detention Spheres and Banisher Priests. I was able to draw both, putting two frostburn weirds in detention and banishing one master. Thassa fixed my draws since T3, and all the enchantments buffed my main fatty quite a bit. Game 3 was similar. I drew my removal for his Masters, and protected my stuff early with Triton Tactics.
Overall, my first thoughts are to mainboard Detention Sphere. Also I'm not too hip on the Bident and Spear in Sideboard, I just didn't have much else to fill it up. I should probably find some Rootborn Defenses.
As for Triton Fortune Hunter, I kind of like that my card draw isn't a threat though, so the opponent will be forced to remove my real threats first while I hopefully draw more threats with his heroic procs.
I'm not THAT sold on him either, but I didn't enjoy my play testing with Ordeal of Thassa as my only card draw. When I put my only source of card draw on a threat, it just makes their removal that much more valuable. I see you're running 2 Mizzium Skins mainboard, which probably helps protect your card draw. I understand that you should drop your ordeals the turn you plan to sacrifice them, but even then they seem to be removed too frequently. Maybe I'm just playing too many control opponents
I actually changed up my deck pretty soon after posting my list, but I'll just post what I actually run at FNM with the results later.
*Edit: I keep this list up to date.
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Favored Hoplite
2 Artisan of Forms
4 Battlewise Hoplite
2 Fabled Hero
2 Triton Fortune Hunter
Enchantments (10)
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Aqueous Form
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Gods Willing
3 Bioshift
Sorcery (3)
3 Hidden Strings
Land (22)
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
10 Plains
6 Island
2 Detention Sphere
3 Brave the Elements
3 Rootborn Defenses
2 Swan Song
3 Triton Tactics
2 Banisher Priest
Please critique!
You should post your deck list so I can better understand where Nivmagus Elemental fits in your 75 card pool.
*All this talk about Triton Fortune Hunter, I feel it would be a good replacement for Daxos of Meletis for me and Razerblaze.
I don't see it working in the other list posted in this thread either.
Since Nivmagus Elemental is not required to proc a heroic ability, the only thing it's doing is trading the spell resolving for 2 1/1 counters. More times than not, I'd much rather have spells resolve.
To its credit, Nivmagus Elemental does give your deck more depth with just having the option to eat spells. I just can't justify taking out Favored Hoplite or Hopeful Eidolon of mainboard. Fitting him in elsewhere would just be too many 1 drops.
It would be only useful against certain opponents, that's why it's sideboard material in my opinion.