I have tested 2 Vivien, Champion of the Wilds in the main and it is indeed awesome against control and sometimes against aggro/midrange. I definitely think it warrants 2-3 slots at least in the SB though I hesitate to add in too many more non-counterspell cards in the board for the control matchup because Nexus is the deck to beat and I don't want to go below 10-12 counters for that m/u.
Can confirm Levy's list is quite good in the meta. Last night on Platinum Arena ranked went 5-2 in bo3.
This deck beats midrange decks like Sultai (barring multiple wildgrowth walkers and multiple hostage takers).
It has the aggro to run down mono blue (though they will still get their blazing fast tempo starts to beat you) and mono white.
And has the post board counterspells with aggression to hang with esper control and nexus combo. Kumena + Deeproot Elite + Deeproot Waters + Benthic Biomancer is such an engine and is very hard to opposing midrange/aggro decks without tons and tons of spot removal to deal with. Even still, Incubation finds your pieces again and you just keep doing the Kumena thing until they are overwhelmed.
I think the SB needs adjusted as the meta adjusts. Kraul Harpooner is amazing against mono blue but not sure I want a card only good in 1-2 matchups that heavily on the board.
I wonder with the new guy Benthic Biomancer if we want to go with a lower to the ground +1/+1 counters theme with Hadana's Climb and Zegana, Utopian Speaker as payoffs. A low land count could be possible with all the card draw/filter and some cheap reactive spells (Dive Down, Spell Pierce) happen to be really good against control and midrange and fit perfectly with the strategy of going tall with Hadana's Climb and protecting the Queen. Backup plan to go wide or dominate the board with Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca. Proposed deck list:
Same boat, sad face. What is the Wizards update you are thinking? Wee Dragonauts? From my perspective, Wizards did not get nearly enough support even though Izzet is a supported guild!
Congrats to FANattIc on another 2nd place finish in the mtgo legacy challenge! Also, merfolk just won the recent cfb 2k, so it definitely seems well positioned at the moment.
Are you guys just not facing much D and T? I have found that matchup so often I'm trying to play tidal warrior to give me a chance!
Well done on your match! I guess I shouldn't have said "free bye" since in my experience it clearly isn't. It's just one of the combo decks where our chalice plan doesn't line up with their key spells all that well so it's always been a little too 60-40 for me, having to have force + or image and vial on 2. Just always thinking of broad enough angles of attack to shore up weaknesses but as you've enumerated Mistcaller prolly just doesn't actually do enough.
So 2 of our worst matchups are elves and sneak and show. Wouldn't a few mistcaller off the sb be good there? Granted, not a whole lot of other relevant matchups besides reanimator but I'm always looking for ways not to give those 2 decks free byes against us.
Before Kaladesh and Aether Revolt but after Dominaria was released I played Fish a ton on Arena to very positive results. It was a fine, competetive tier 2 deck. I suspect it will be perfectly viable if not exactly tier 1. But who knows what rotation will bring? At least 4 sets of powerful cards will rotate out.
Losing Botanical Sanctum is by far the biggest loss imo.
So any news to report on the latest testing in the new meta? How has Merfolk Trickster been, does it do enough? Chalice of the Void still an mvp and the disruption of choice over Daze?
With seemingly more D & T, Stoneblade, etc Manriki-Gusari and Jitte seem back in vogue
Isn't Kopala our Kira ?
I'm not sure that clunking up the mana even more is worth it.
Maybe, It's just that Kopala is bad against all the white removal (enchantments + Settle). Also, having to pay 2 extra isn't that much of a problem for red decks. But, you are probably right... the splash may not be worth it.
What about splashing into White for Shalai, Voice of Plenty and Cast Out? The deck seems to do really great until 1-2 critical Lords are removed (left with a bunch of 2/1, 3/2 and 2/2 at that point) or some unbeatable bomb (Phoenix, Hazo, TSG) is dropped without an efficient answer. Shalai stops all spot removal and Settle the Wreckage and is a late game mana sink whereas Cast Out just does exactly what we need it to do. Oh, and we could add Authority of the Consuls off the board which is such a home wrecker against Red.
I realize we already have access to "answers" to these problems in the form of Blossoming Defense, Unsummon, Swift Warden, Merfolk Trickster, and Spell Pierce but all these cards are super situational and not always "good." I think Salai could kinda be like our Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in that we still run about 30 Merfolk but a couple of protectorates from other tribes.
Not sure if the manabase could work and it may not be worth the trade off in power vs. consistency. I am thinking something along these lines:
Deck still has 13 green sources, 14 blue, 8 white but it may not be good enough and losing Unclaimed Territory does not help but I don't see any way around it if this could actually be a shell to test. Any thoughts?
i like back to basics still as it can hamper their game plan enough to be worth it since there are so many other juicy abrupt decay targets. also really like relic here just to get some value out of an early play since i side out Vials and Harbingers and usually 1 Copter. My plan is to try and aggro them out while holding up counterspells for Toxic Deluge and backbreaking edict effects.
-2 Harbinger, -1 Copter, -4 Vial +2 Relic, +2 Fluster, +2 Back to Basics, +1 Dismember. I still like cursecatcher a good deal since it can counter heavy sorceries like Hymn and Deluge.
Also, I do not side out any of my 3 Images since it always has a good target here be it Leovold, Strix, islandwalking lord, Adept (actually amazing) or TNN.
hows the deck working out? i'm personally disenchanted with the deck... there are 0 good removal spells in these colors and the deck gets 1-2 key creatures removed and its just devastating.
on another note, how about Merfolk Trickster ? It could be the pseudo-removal this deck needs to get over the hump. Turns Phoenix and Scarab God recursion off, makes Hazoret killable, taps blockers, flash for other shenanigans. Just not sure how good this card will be in standard
This deck beats midrange decks like Sultai (barring multiple wildgrowth walkers and multiple hostage takers).
It has the aggro to run down mono blue (though they will still get their blazing fast tempo starts to beat you) and mono white.
And has the post board counterspells with aggression to hang with esper control and nexus combo. Kumena + Deeproot Elite + Deeproot Waters + Benthic Biomancer is such an engine and is very hard to opposing midrange/aggro decks without tons and tons of spot removal to deal with. Even still, Incubation finds your pieces again and you just keep doing the Kumena thing until they are overwhelmed.
I think the SB needs adjusted as the meta adjusts. Kraul Harpooner is amazing against mono blue but not sure I want a card only good in 1-2 matchups that heavily on the board.
3 Jade Bearer
3 Benthic Biomancer
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
3 Merfolk Trickster
3 Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
3 Zegana, Utopian Speaker
3 Dive Down
3 Hadana's Climb
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Island
4 Forest
2 Swift Warden
1 Kopala, Warden of Waves
2 Watertrap Weaver
1 Tempest Caller
2 Shapers' Sanctuary
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
2 Sleep
1 Vivien Reid
I'm going to be testing this on Arena as soon as I pick up the rares from the new set. Any other ideas?
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=20006&d=329764&f=ST
Are you guys just not facing much D and T? I have found that matchup so often I'm trying to play tidal warrior to give me a chance!
Losing Botanical Sanctum is by far the biggest loss imo.
With seemingly more D & T, Stoneblade, etc Manriki-Gusari and Jitte seem back in vogue
Maybe, It's just that Kopala is bad against all the white removal (enchantments + Settle). Also, having to pay 2 extra isn't that much of a problem for red decks. But, you are probably right... the splash may not be worth it.
I realize we already have access to "answers" to these problems in the form of Blossoming Defense, Unsummon, Swift Warden, Merfolk Trickster, and Spell Pierce but all these cards are super situational and not always "good." I think Salai could kinda be like our Kira, Great Glass-Spinner in that we still run about 30 Merfolk but a couple of protectorates from other tribes.
Not sure if the manabase could work and it may not be worth the trade off in power vs. consistency. I am thinking something along these lines:
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Deeproot Elite
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
4 Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
2 Jungleborn Pioneer
2 Spell Pierce
3 Cast Out
2 Shalai, Voice of Plenty
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sunpetal Grove
6 Island
5 Forest
Deck still has 13 green sources, 14 blue, 8 white but it may not be good enough and losing Unclaimed Territory does not help but I don't see any way around it if this could actually be a shell to test. Any thoughts?
-2 Harbinger, -1 Copter, -4 Vial +2 Relic, +2 Fluster, +2 Back to Basics, +1 Dismember. I still like cursecatcher a good deal since it can counter heavy sorceries like Hymn and Deluge.
Also, I do not side out any of my 3 Images since it always has a good target here be it Leovold, Strix, islandwalking lord, Adept (actually amazing) or TNN.
on another note, how about Merfolk Trickster ? It could be the pseudo-removal this deck needs to get over the hump. Turns Phoenix and Scarab God recursion off, makes Hazoret killable, taps blockers, flash for other shenanigans. Just not sure how good this card will be in standard