I have been thinking about this as well, the problem is do you really want to take on the role of the control deck when your agro yourself ?
Obviously you would prefer to play as the aggro deck, but against Boros or a quick B/R vamps draw it just isn't always feasible. The ability to gain CA from Hawk/Shaman etc where Boros has no real good way to replenish their hand means that if you can survive the initial onslaught you are often in good shape. I can see a number of situations in my mind where we could set up to force the aggro player to overextend, clear the board and then either recur some vengevines we have tucked away in the yard or equip a sword to one of our extra Squawks and really take control of an otherwise tough game.
I might try it out at FNM tonight, as i have the feeling there will be a ton of aggro decks floating around.
i might be just crazy, but would 2 DoJ in the board be that bad for against aggro decks, turning yourself into a more controlling role? If you get out a sword, hold your squawks, chump block with a few of your dudes then blow them out on the next turn i would think it's not a bad angle to combat monored and b/r vamps.
You'd never really want more than 1 Collar, and isn't that what Shaman is for? Finding creatures we need?
wasn't saying to add another collar, but 4x Shaman doesnt mean you are going to see one in every opening hand or every game for that matter. Getting Swords going is a big part of the deck, you definitely need 3 or 4 Mystics if you want to be able to get them with any regularity. Personally, I have been running 4 sparkmages but i could see the justification for 3 or maybe 2. I just think that with only 2 mages, 2 mystics, and only 1 collar to draw you will sit there more games than not with half of the combo assembled in your hand / on the board and no way to tutor up the other piece you need
So I've been thinking of sleeving up a Naya list as well. Here's what I have come up with. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated. Btw, I agree w/adding Hero of Oxid Ridge.
What do you guys think think about Garuk and or Koth as possible inclusions ?
Garruk is awesome from what i've tested. Corrupters are impossible to play maindeck IMHO as the lack of a may on their comes into play ability found me holding them for entire games as a dead card against a few decks (esp. valakut)
Seems to be testing alright, I pulled out the Lotus Cobra's b/c the 2 drop slots seems super crowded, the Garruk combo's super well with the swords, and I liked having the 1 of Zenith for a 5th shaman or a way to tutor up the acidic slime to get rid of something dangerous game 1.
(As conley has even come out and said) Conley just basically took Flores/Chapin's list and made some metagame tweaks.
Its basically just
+4 Acidic Slime
-1 Primeval Titan
-1 Genesis Wave
-2 Garruk Wildspeaker
The sideboard i think is where conley's changes really shine. Wall of tanglecord in the board seems amazing, I have even consided adding a second one. Against boros/RDW decks that you don't think cobra's and treespeakers will ever live against, the tanglecord wall not only clogs the ground but counts for your battlements.
land subtyping would be awesome but well probably get them next year when the fetches rotate out of standard.
That's what i'm thinking, i honestly think these would have been the perfect answer to the whole accessibility of dual problem for legacy. Theres just no way to subtype them with enemy fetches... any fetch gives you access to any color of mana at that point.
Maybe this is Wizard's way of signaling what to look out for next
the biggest problem is not that they would be in standard at the same time with fetchlands, but it is that they are in standard at the same time as enemy fetchlands.
an arid mesa being able to search out the R/B W/G W/U and R/G dual land is just basically broken.
At least if they were not the enemy fetches, the W/U fetch could only get W/G W/U U/B. This would only give you access to 3 colors instead of all 5
i kinda wish the new duals had the basic land types.
yeah it would be pretty insane in standard i guess, but only for 3 turns.... then the utility they would have for legacy would make them playable (although strictly worse) for those that can't/won't afford the original duals
Obviously you would prefer to play as the aggro deck, but against Boros or a quick B/R vamps draw it just isn't always feasible. The ability to gain CA from Hawk/Shaman etc where Boros has no real good way to replenish their hand means that if you can survive the initial onslaught you are often in good shape. I can see a number of situations in my mind where we could set up to force the aggro player to overextend, clear the board and then either recur some vengevines we have tucked away in the yard or equip a sword to one of our extra Squawks and really take control of an otherwise tough game.
I might try it out at FNM tonight, as i have the feeling there will be a ton of aggro decks floating around.
I might just be overthinking things though.
where's earthquake when i want it :/
wasn't saying to add another collar, but 4x Shaman doesnt mean you are going to see one in every opening hand or every game for that matter. Getting Swords going is a big part of the deck, you definitely need 3 or 4 Mystics if you want to be able to get them with any regularity. Personally, I have been running 4 sparkmages but i could see the justification for 3 or maybe 2. I just think that with only 2 mages, 2 mystics, and only 1 collar to draw you will sit there more games than not with half of the combo assembled in your hand / on the board and no way to tutor up the other piece you need
you need SoFaFamine in there. Also, Collar x1 + Sparkmage x2 + Mystic x2 just seems awkward.... combo will be too hard to assemble.
Garruk is awesome from what i've tested. Corrupters are impossible to play maindeck IMHO as the lack of a may on their comes into play ability found me holding them for entire games as a dead card against a few decks (esp. valakut)
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Basilisk Collar
CREATURES
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Cunning Sparkmage
4 Vengevine
1 Acidic Slime
1 Inferno Titan
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
SPELLS
1 Green Sun Zenith
4 Lightning Bolt
LANDS
1 Copperline Gorge
4 Arid Mesa
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Raging Ravine
3 Stirring Wildwood
3 Razorverge Thicket
4 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Plains
so far my board is something similar to this
3 Arc Trail
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Inferno Titan
2 Acidic Slime
1 Sun Titan
2 Divine Offering (This needs to be nature's claim i think)
Seems to be testing alright, I pulled out the Lotus Cobra's b/c the 2 drop slots seems super crowded, the Garruk combo's super well with the swords, and I liked having the 1 of Zenith for a 5th shaman or a way to tutor up the acidic slime to get rid of something dangerous game 1.
Its basically just
+4 Acidic Slime
-1 Primeval Titan
-1 Genesis Wave
-2 Garruk Wildspeaker
The sideboard i think is where conley's changes really shine. Wall of tanglecord in the board seems amazing, I have even consided adding a second one. Against boros/RDW decks that you don't think cobra's and treespeakers will ever live against, the tanglecord wall not only clogs the ground but counts for your battlements.
That's what i'm thinking, i honestly think these would have been the perfect answer to the whole accessibility of dual problem for legacy. Theres just no way to subtype them with enemy fetches... any fetch gives you access to any color of mana at that point.
Maybe this is Wizard's way of signaling what to look out for next
an arid mesa being able to search out the R/B W/G W/U and R/G dual land is just basically broken.
At least if they were not the enemy fetches, the W/U fetch could only get W/G W/U U/B. This would only give you access to 3 colors instead of all 5
yeah it would be pretty insane in standard i guess, but only for 3 turns.... then the utility they would have for legacy would make them playable (although strictly worse) for those that can't/won't afford the original duals
I just think there are other cards that serve its purpose better than this dude. Maybe a budget replacement in a turboland deck
haha i just saw that. That's what i get for reading the new posts top to bottom and replying before i got to the Mirrodin Besieged topic
Do we know what Mirrodin Besieged is? Maybe this is actually the name of the set and Mirrodin Pure / New Phyrexia are trademarked subsets of the set.