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Quote from Fuwa »I would like an extension. (Sorry guys, but I haven't been able to catch up and I doubt I can before deadline)
Quote from Killjoy » Az: I'd like an opinion. Rhand/Cantrip/Axel. Of the three that /barned dk's reasoning on me, I assume you think Axel is the most likely scum out of the three?
Quote from Vaimes »Let me try that again: I remember when you read me correctly despite the entire scumteam + Sir Chris (lol) tunneling on me in the Hearthstone invitational. Now you're completely flopping on my alignment, which strikes me more as fake than rustiness. Choo choo.
Quote from Vaimes »I remember when you read me correctly despite the entire scumteam + Sir Chris (lol) tunneling on me in the Hearthstone invitational. Now you're completely flopping on my alignment, which honestly strikes me more as fake than rustiness. Choo choo.
Quote from Vaimes »Did I not explicitly state there's a difference between activity and presence?
Quote from Vaimes »Because that's 100% an MTGS scumtell, attacking me for attacking your activity when...I wasn't. Oh wait you voted me. 24 hours before deadline. Are you sure?
Quote from vaimes » I know you're really asking me if I rolled scum again. I am town, and I'd say I'm more relaxed than having fun.
Quote from vaimes » I've looked at KJ's posts and am uninterested in this wagon. My pet scumteam is Cantrip/Ax/???/???.
Quote from vaimes » Also I haven't been town in forever and my usual scumplay is to not care about a single thing being posted in the thread. Go easy on me. dot dot dot
Quote from vaimes » Oh you're so scum.
Quote from vaimes » Deflective humor suggests a guilty mindset.
Quote from vaimes » Okay. Hi, then. I don't blame you for taking "Vaimes lurked and lost" away from that game, but I'm not that easy to read anymore. Do you have anything you want to ask me that might actually shed some light on my alignment for you/anyone?
Quote from vaimes » tom is also scum. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
Quote from vaimes » No but really, the way he’s sort of mindlessly pushing scumreads pings scum to me. I know tom isn’t afraid to get his hands dirty as scum, but it always always always feels forced, in a “I need results **** the process” kind of way. Word vomit sorry.
Quote from vaimes » Combination of him being somewhat low hanging fruit and people I don’t like pushing on him + wagon speed. Safe to say that regardless of KJ’s alignment, there is most definitely mafia pushing there. I think it’s Cantrip and/or tom. I think if tom is scum, KJ looks better for it since tom isn’t afraid to openly defend sinking teammates.
Quote from vaimes » Cantrip, that particular “deflecting” post really doesn’t matter. It’s not the cornerstone of why I think you’re scum. I just didn’t like it in the context of you responding to something of mine.
Quote from vaimes » I’m like 98% sure tom is scum. But I kinda want to test to see if he’s chainsaw defending Cantrip. Outstanding questions later tonight.
Quote from vaimes » My wrath.
Quote from vaimes » Ooh. Unvote, vote tom tom/Chris wagons are perfect.
Quote from vaimes » I haven't actually read anything, skimmed and saw that Chris did something that involves inside info on beeboy or whatever. No read on him since he's been too busy to make a lot of noise, so I support the pressure. Don't have a beeboy read, I'm straight sheeping LW until I feel like doing work.
Quote from vaimes » I don't understand the shadow scumreads or votes. He's been scum a lot recently, and I feel like there's a difference this time around that means he's town. More earnest solving and less doing things for show. Plus I think if he were scum again he'd be more of a drag. dot dot dot
Quote from vaimes » Unvote, vote Azrael Quick question to people voting shadow: are you high, mafia, or both?
Quote from vaimes » Name one thing that makes Azrael a villager, without rereading.
Quote from vaimes » He was weak and slanky last game. He's happy and actually cares about the game. He's town.
Quote from vaimes » I think the way he almost seems to be trying not to make waves and fly under the radar is scummy. I think as town he’d be more prolific. Which is absolutely not a “wah Az isn’t active enough for my liking,” he just doesn’t have any presence as a town player here.
Quote from vaimes » Is there anything in Az’s wallpost about who he thinks is scum? Especially among those pushing him? Which slot does he want to run up and/or kill? He knows he’s a major wagon heading into deadline, right? Who cares about defending the Grape read at this point, it’s been a billion years.
Quote from vaimes » Betcha Az is gonna try and persuade y'all to let him wait til EoD for his ability to auto-trigger, instead of doing it while the sun's up. Otherwise I don't know why he bothered mentioning it, the overwhelmingly obvious course of action here as a villager under fire is to prove your ability as soon as you can. Especially if it's just gonna happen automatically after the lunch.
Quote from vaimes » Azrael is painting his whole wagon as scummy and not calling out anyone in particular. My vote will not be moving.
Quote from Vaimes »"it provides scum with the exact info to kill me" My guy, you are about to be lunched. Even if you survive AND are town, it's insane to think that scum would ever kill you.
Quote from Axelrod »Well, seems to me it's highly optimistic of you to be thinking that you are going to be around long enough for it to matter if the scum know how to "play around" it or not. Which moots the point of keeping it secret and incidentally prevents some people (me) from deciding whether or not they believe it, and/or whether it's town.
Quote from beeboy » Hypothetically if Az flips scum is being quickly ok with a claim from a player who I know will likely die and flip scum given people are already criticizing the claim at the time of my post really the easy and intuitive thing to do as scum? Isn't Az being town a worse look for me?
Quote from beeboy » DK probably? My wagon wasn't pure and I fully intend to do something about it. Fuwa and Az as far as people not voting me are concerned.
Quote from beeboy » I am falling for the Az claim btw. To some capacity it justifies people feeling he is underwelming given his role wants to live to late game
Quote from beeboy » @Wisp If I wanted to play in an environment where I wasn't allowed to lynch players for arbitrary reasons I'd still be playing on mafiascum. I don't mean to disregard what you want but I don't feel like I am crossing any lines here. Like I've said why I think Shadow is scum, I get he has a high post count but whenever I used to top post I never felt like I had a right to not be lynched for it. I think Tom is lurking out his wagon and also have my reasons to think he is scum. :/ I am not just going to chain lynch all the high profile players for the memes to try and get a deep wolf and not adjust if I am wrong.
Quote from beeboy » I am starting to actually town read Chris here. Initially i didn't like the WK of me because I got kind of scared it was an attempt to buddy me which scum will do when a player gets shoved into a corner, either they don't think the player will be lynched or they want to stay off the wagon. But at this point am convinced that Chris does believe that I am town here. And I do like how he is leveraging his other interactions and reads using his read on me rather then just hard defending me.
Quote from beeboy » Ok so I don't expect anyone to sheep me on this but honestly I am just tone reading Wisp right now and honestly if I had to bet the game on my current read I wouldn't. So if I die right now I don't want anyone to think I have some enlightened read on Wisp that is worth sheeping. He could be engaging with me more but that hurts my heart more then its alignment indicative. But I am very confident in my ability to have a good macro read on Wisp, so it's more as long as I am alive I want to give him the freedom to play freely in order to get that read faster. Watching him get frustrated and pushed down will make it easier for him to hide and defend himself as scum while making him less transparent as scum. So like I know this is a weird answer but I am pretty content calling him town and am happy with what I am doing. And if Wisp does start wolfing arbitrary macro read timers won't apply, but I do like his tone and I do have a plan so exaggerating my read is something I am fine doing.
Quote from beeboy » vote: Tom It's time for competing wagons.
Quote from Axelrod »I would add: What kind of "retaliation" is this? Does this ability remain in effect indefinitely until you are targeted? Oh, and what did you mean when you were high-fiving with Chris last night about giving incomplete or inaccurate information?
Quote from Cantripmancer »Az, please answer Rhand's questions about your claim while you're here tonight.
Quote from Killjoy »Ok so time to explain my reads. (First, Unvote) dk and KCC came into the game all excited (which isn't necessarily a tell) but also they were kind of... the opposite of self aware a bit as well. Scum usually aren't so carefree in general, so those entrances were ones that made me say "ok, these folks might be town" and as such I gave them both townleans. Additionally now, I like the clapback from dk in 106. He didn't just accept my townread lying down. He stopped and analyzed it and said "wait, I haven't done anything townie yet! Where is this coming from?" Scum might prefer not to put themselves out there and draw attention to the townread on themselves which they would know to be wrong (and therefore could collapse under scrutiny). Tom made post 148 which is annoying to me because it's not analytical at all. It's just like "heres why scum makes that post" withoutany actual thought. It didn't actually come from me, btw. It was Voxx, post 77 of his mentor thread with Proph. " It's very, very rare that 5 town will be on a lynch in a row, especially on town." The reason I said it in the first place is it's something I look for when wagons reach 5 or 6. Now, lets analyze the wagon on me. Killjoy (6): dkingsland967, Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod, tomsloger, shadowlancerx dking's vote is fine as discussed above. Rhand, Cantrip, and Axel are literally all just /barning that, and tom and shadow gave no reason. Well, technically Rhand /barns dk, Cantrip /barns Rhand, and Axel just restates dk's reason. I originally said there was likely 1-2 in these 6. (I say 1-2 instead of just 1 due to the speed of the wagon.) With dking's out, there's 1-2 in Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod, tomsloger, shadowlancerx. I don't think there's >1 scum in Rhand, Cantripmancer, Axelrod as they are basically just barning each other and I don't think scum typically interact like that. Well... ballsier scum might? I don't beleive they are ballsier scum though. That leaves tom and shadow. There COULD be both scum here, as tom and shadow are both proficient and ballsy scum players who go against typcial scum tropes. But assuming that also goes against Occum's Razor since assuming that tom and shadow are both powerwolfing at this stage is not super likely. If there IS exactly 1 scum in there, tom is more likely due to 148 because it's could easily be malicious, whereras shadow hasn't done anything like that to me. Now on to other things. Vaimes: Yes, that was what I was asking. I recall you saying in scumchat in Hill House that that was like the 4th consecutive scumgame for you and you seemed to hate it. Good catch. Rhand: Talk to me about this game. What else do you have opinions on? Shadow: I'd really like a reason for your vote. You say 'unexpressed opinion'. What is that opinion? I'm not gonna bother asking tom since there's a very likely chance he just won't answer and that'll tilt me again.
Quote from shadowlancerx »Actually that is a good point, @KJ: why no vote in that post? Unvote cause I’m not quite ready to force a claim.
Quote from Killjoy » 3. Azrael - lean scum: his Grape read is way too deep Have you never played with, or actually SEEN Az play before?
Quote from Grapefruit21 » His vote is in the sweet spot of opportunistic, overexplained, and easy. As for KJ kind of everything but especially this page. He seems curious and like he's looking for answers. I loved the way he narrowed his list to take dk off in the next post after his 1-2 in x. His questions this page have generally been pointed in ways that look hunty. And he's showing zero panic despite being at roughly 7 votes 72 hours in. Yes it's early but with the history of recent wagons his chances of dying today are astronomical barring a massive turnaround and he's entirely nonplussed and continuing to solve and interact. Not a single sign of anti spew.
Quote from tomsloger »Kj/grape team with the valiant attempt? Wouldnt be with the vezok/beeboy grouping though
Quote from Vaimes »No but really, the way he’s sort of mindlessly pushing scumreads pings scum to me. I know tom isn’t afraid to get his hands dirty as scum, but it always always always feels forced, in a “I need results **** the process” kind of way. Word vomit sorry.
Quote from Axelrod »Unvote So, the thing is, KJ, the wagon on you wasn't "bad." It was just weak, which is kind of a different thing. There wasn't much to it because there simply wasn't much that had happened in the game yet. It virtually had to be weak. I knew that when I voted, but I decided you gotta start somewhere. I feel like you could/ought to have dismissed it with a waive of your hand and a roll of the eye (and at least some kind of superficial explanation for why you felt dking's RVS posts were Townie), but then you went and dug the hole deeper by not responding and instead promising a "full" response later (which is just always a Red Flag for me, especially when it would literally have taken two seconds), and then coming back with this huge dissection of your wagon which amounted to a virtually useless statistical analysis. The entire point of running someone up quickly, especially with some weak reasoning - at least in my opinion - is to see what they will do. Secondarily to see how other people react to it. My feeling is generally scum will feel the pressure of it more than Town and be more likely to panic in someway. So taking a million hours off to compose your thoughts before replying is a scummy move. And that "analysis" of your wagon is another one. Only reason I'm unvoting here is I feel the need to do some homework, in as much as I seem to recall being convinced you were scum before when you weren't and it was possibly for something like this, where your play pattern just didn't mesh with what I consider to be logical/normal behavior. I don't remember what game that was but it had to be one of the last two we played, so I'm going to do that. So, I had no problem with [unexpressed thought], and even thought it was elegant, in as much as I didn't want anyone coming in and pointing out how weak the wagon was before KJ said something about it. But now he's said something, so why is your thought remaining unexpressed? I'll show you "overexplained"
Quote from shadowlancerx » @KJ: Fuwa is female FYI.
Quote from Rhand » This feels like Az knows Grape is town. Or he has Einstein IQ. No one reads a post like this, thinks all of that and then simply says “I think Grape is town”.
Quote from KittyCupCake » I feel like I'm missing something here. But I can wait to see where to this is going.
Quote from tomsloger »vote kj
Quote from shadowlancerx »[unexpressed thought] Vote Killjoy
Quote from dkingsland967 » Yuck, these posts are suuuuuuuper self-aware, especially when considering Vaimes just lost a game as scum where lurking was a primary reason why he got lynched.
Quote from Killjoy »This wagon on me is beautiful and fill of content.