I won't get into the whole prison vs discard aspect you guys are discussing, but I feel that something important hasn't been mentioned about discard decks: they dumb down the game.
When you are in top deck mode, you have almost 0 decisions to make.
"Do I hold onto this creature in case the other dude has a wrath?"
Nope, you just slam everything you draw since you are losing it anyways.
It also takes away some of the fun in that you can't hold back tricks. Some guy is coming after you? Blow them out with Sudden Spoiling! Reins of Power their ass!
I don't like that discard takes away the potential blowouts of Magic.
- Miaou
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Nov 6, 2013Miaou posted a message on The "Don'ts" of Multiplayer Deckbuilding EtiquettePosted in: Cz Blog
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Oct 30, 2013Miaou posted a message on The "Don'ts" of Multiplayer Deckbuilding EtiquetteI know that the question was directed to Indalecio, but I'll just chime in (in reference to my play group):Posted in: Cz Blog
- Discard is not very appreciated. People like playing their spells so when their hands are depleted, setting up their strategies is a lot more complex. While discard is by no means overpowered, it is just not enjoyed.
- Tax effects (even though that fills into prison strats). I don't mind Propaganda and company since the opponents are taxed only if they want to pick a fight with you. However Grand Arbiter, Aura of Silence and the rest I try to avoid since not playing spells sucks.
Individually they might be fine but they stack up to become super annoying.
And good point on the $$ restrictions. Didn't consider that :/ -
Oct 29, 2013Miaou posted a message on The "Don'ts" of Multiplayer Deckbuilding EtiquetteI actually really like this guide. It covers all the shady areas and I agree with your analysis (except for Sylvan Library and Grave Pact which I enjoy too much to not play).Posted in: Cz Blog
Also, I think that if people follow your guidelines (no T1-3 decks, no combo kills, mindful of artifacts&enchantments) then spicing it up with the Vintage banned and restricted list could be fun from time to time. Who doesn't love the occasional Balance or Demonic Tutor? -
Oct 24, 2013Miaou posted a message on Tips on Effectively Using Mass Removal in MultiplayerWe are pretty lenient with the rules...We want the games to go smoothly so we won't fault the guy with the one miracle in the cube to just draw and back up to play Terminus.Posted in: Cz Blog
Other than that you reinforced my like for Terminus. Guess I will be trying it out with the new gods to see how it works out. -
Oct 23, 2013Miaou posted a message on Tips on Effectively Using Mass Removal in MultiplayerThanks for the write up, good info!Posted in: Cz Blog
Just curious as to how you would rank Terminus?
Clearly 6 mana for a wrath is too much (hello Hallowed Burial for 1 less mana), but the miracle cost means you can wrath + play a threat.
I'm curious because I'm wondering if it's a decent cube wrath (meaning no real way to abuse miracle except for top decking it in most decks). -
Sep 7, 2013Miaou posted a message on Multiplayer Theros Review (249/249) - Part 1I do indeed run drain in my black section, I guess I am underestimating the times he will turn into a creature.Posted in: Cz Blog
I agree with your green review, except for the Bow. If the ability was just deathtouch then that would be great. But since it is only attacking creatures that benefit from it, I don't think it's that great. -
Sep 6, 2013Miaou posted a message on Multiplayer Theros Review (249/249) - Part 1Thanks for the cube ratingPosted in: Cz Blog
However, I don't quite agree with the black god being all that good in cube unless you actively support a drain theme.
In cube he is obviously harder to get online than in a monoB deck, so he loses value there too.
It's going to be tough to make cuts for this set. I might have to expand! -
Jul 9, 2013Miaou posted a message on Multiplayer Cube Primer Part 2: Getting StartedI was thinking, when you have 9-10 players for a cube draft, do you do one giant FFA battle or split into two 4-5 player games? Are there other alternatives that you use?Posted in: Cz Blog
And I can't believe that I haven't proxied a Rolling Earthquake yet! I can even make it black bordered
Thanks for the guide so far! -
Jul 1, 2013Miaou posted a message on Multiplayer Cube Primer Part 1: Introduction to the Hows and WhysSweet! Thank you Cz for taking the time to start the discussion. While you might talk about this later, I just want to get my thoughts out there...Posted in: Cz Blog
I'm in a weird spot right now with my cube:
I have it built and while fine tuning it requires actual testing, I'm pretty happy with what I have.
The problem is introducing it to my playgroup. Nobody other than me has ever drafted any set and I'm not sure about how to get them to play.
Do I do a mock draft with cards face up explaining picks?
Do I try a sealed deck experience first to get used to the cards?
I'm also in the same scenario as Indalecio where we have pretty short sessions. How long does the draft process and actual game take for you guys on average?
Once again thanks for this, can't wait to read the rest -
Jun 8, 2013Miaou posted a message on Banned from the casual forum for 2 weeks.I would like to second the idea that if you have the time and desire to, writing about MP cube would be great.Posted in: Cz Blog
I have tried my hand at it, but insight from someone with experience is always valuable. -
Mar 20, 2013Miaou posted a message on Fairness in MultiplayerMy meta is far from competitive, but the level is slowly getting better. We play 4 player FFA generally.Posted in: Cz Blog
Therefor the decks aren't unfair like you put it but we always have one guy playing some kind of "combo" deck. I say "combo" because it isn't a win on the spot but he can take out the table pretty quickly (compared to the rest of us) if he isn't kept in check.
That used to be a problem before I started running dedicated artifact/enchantment removal (which most of his combos used - like Sneak Attack + Eldrazis for example).
This allowed me to slow him down enough that my fair decks would have time to set up and eventually lock him out. I could handle the others given time so it was all I needed.
My favorite fair "unfair" deck is a Birthing Pod deck bursting with value and with Craterhoof Behemoth as a "surprise" finisher (as I said, not a competitive meta!).
I like them a lot more than combo decks since once your meta figures out that they should be packing that extra removal, they might give you a run for your money. Plus I find that fair vs fair is a lot more fun than combo vs combo. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It seems like it would be pretty easy to set up 2 decent piles. And with the casting cost, it seems pretty splashable.
I'd like to give white some graveyard options in order to open up different archetypes in the cube.
So far white has:
I could see myself also adding Increasing Devotion and Dusk // Dawn in addition to a few multicolored cards already present (Lingering Souls, Prepare // Fight, Renegade Rallier, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death)
We are also pretty relax on mulligan rules. If your hand is unplayable due to mana screw mull as often as you want. If your hand is unplayable due to not having the right colors or CC then mulligan as normal.
I play a multiplayer cube and the worst thing is for a player to miss land drops, discard and get attacked to death in the early turns and watch an hour long game afterwards. So in order to avoid this situation as much as possible, what cheap (CC wise) cards do you use that help reduce variance in your multiplayer games?
Here is what I have so far:
White:
Blue:
Black:
Red:
Green:
Multi:
Temples (scry lands)
Colorless:
I didn't include ramp cards, but those definitely help as well. Sometimes deathtouch creatures can do the job of protecting you long enough to develop your board as well.
Are there any other cards that I missed that have been working for you?
Of course, I still might have to try Treasure Map out since it seems flavorful and fun, but wanted some outside opinion too.
From Ixalan, I might try Search for Azcanta once the price goes down (instead of Merfolk Looter or something) and I want to try Rampaging Ferocidon as a fairer Sulfuric Vortex.
Other than that, nothing seems too great :/
I see it as a potential card advantage source for white and red decks. It's slow to be sure, but in general, turn 2 plays aren't great, and 1 mana isn't that much of a set back (you can start activating it once you've curved out). It could also be decent in ramp decks in order to find business and ramp for the big payoff cards.
It's clearly not the greatest, but some decks could really use draw/filtering and early plays.
Treasure Map: I like it as a source of cheap colorless card advantage/filtering to help white and red decks. It's pretty slow though.
Dowsing Dagger: In a 4 player FFA match, shipping the 2 dudes to someone and finding an opening doesn't seem too tough to accomplish. They payoff is there, but is it worth the effort?
Thoughts?
Selvala does look good. I totally forgot she existed and hadn't considered her. Not sure how I feel shipping everyone extra cards, but guess I will have to give her a shot!
Captain Sisay is too expensive now. Didn't realize her price was so high. Oh well...
Dragonlord Dromoka is solid, but also unexciting. Pretty easy pass on him. Which makes me realize, Armada Wurm is in the same boat...
I didn't mention Sigarda, Host of Herons because I'm not a huge fan of hexproof creatures. I like being able to interact with creatures other than through wraths. But you are right, she is a house!
Fracturing Gust is a card I always forget about, but that I should play. I'll find room for this one!
Loxodon Hierarch and Dauntless Escort: Escort is better you are right (not holding up mana is crucial), but thinking about it, I would probably rather have Selfless Spirit instead of both (cheaper and mono colored).
Trostani : If I had bigger tokens (most of them are 1/1), I could definitely see her going in. But getting a 1/1 for 3 mana is pretty horrible.
Looks like I will be trying
Fracturing Gust
or
Selvala, Explorer Returned
Thanks for the feedback!
My Selesnya section has the following:
I have one last slot and I am debating between:
Advent is currently in and has been decent. It can ambush creatures and I like instants as they make game play less linear. Nothing spectacular though.
Armada Wurm is a generic beater, but also a 6 drop that is difficult to splash. Which is nice since green and white are limited in that slot.
Hierarch is just solid. Body is nice, life gain is nice and the ability to counter most wraths is nice.
What are your thoughts on the 3 cards. Or is there another card I should consider before these? (Captain Sisay?)
That being said, I think you could probably cut Extract from Darkness too. You already have lots of 5 CC cards in that guild and good cheap alternatives. I would probably add Tasigur, the Golden Fang in its stead. I know it's not technically a Dimir card, but I found it generally slots in those decks better with all the blue cantrips and black's GY shenanigans. It can come down at different places in the curve and is a great mana sink.
Sygg, River Cutthroat can be decent too as and early play for colors lacking good 2 drops.
The last two options I like (but are a bit lower power level) are Evil Twin (4 mana clone is ok + a removal spell) and Soul Manipulation as an easy 2 for 1.
I really like having a source of draw in red and think this guy has potential.
Have any of you tried him out (or Monarch for that matter).
Thanks!
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death can bring a lot of value. Though depending on where you classify it takes a red or a gold slot
Viashino Heretic as a source of damage and repeatable artifact destruction.
Chandra's Spitfire can do some work if you pack some mass damage spells like Earthquake.
From your collection, I like these a lot better (in that order) than a few you are running:
Here are those I would cut :
Ball Lightning: hits one player once. Not enough for MP games
Dragon Egg: working for a 2/2 flyer seems mediocre
Hurloon Shaman: Nice global effect and attack deterrent, but tough to make use of it.
Kolaghan Forerunners: Inconsistent card depending on your board state.
Viashino Sandstalker: Better than Ball Lightning but very mana intensive and 4 damage to one player isn't going to do you a whole lot of good.
Wall of Lava: Doesn't really do anything.
There might also be a few cheap ones you could pick up if you are looking to improve your collection.
I play a 3 player FFA format so it's a weird hybrid of MP cube and duel cube. I'm going to try and break the singleton rule of cube (I'd rather not debate whether or not I'm still playing cube at this point...Call it a draft environment if it is easier to digest :P).
- 2x fetchlands -> better mana fixing and synergy with a few cards. Thinking of ditching the ABU duals in favor of double shocklands to make the cost of splashing a real one.
- 2x Deathrite Shaman -> Great 1-2 drops are lacking in MP formats and this one is among the best. Synergies with the above change as well.
- 2x Figure of Destiny -> Scaling one drop that is hybrid and fits nicely into aggressive decks.
- 2x Baleful Strix -> Blue and black 2 drops are horrible. This one is awesome and has artifact synergy to boot.
- 2x Restoration Angel -> Slots into every deck and allows to push for a blink sub theme without having to use sub-optimal cards (Glimmerpoint Stag).
- 2x Snapcaster Mage -> Blue "2 drop" that enables a better spells matter archetype and is useful everywhere.
- 2x Vendilion Clique -> Great in a lot of decks and offers fair disruption. Opens up blue aggressive decks a little more.
- 2x Young Pyromancer -> I feel red 2 drops are severely lacking and this guy is decent. Fuels tokens and spells matter.
- 2x Courser of Kruphix -> Solid blocker and value engine with some incidental lifegain. Nice with double fetches too.
- 2x Beast Within -> Best green removal spell and has a nice amount of play to it as well.
- 2x Smuggler's Copter -> This guy has been really good to us and a second one should boost aggro decks enough to make them more popular.
- 2x Grafted Wargear -> I'm not playing Swords of X and Y because of the protections, so I'm hurting for equipment. This seems like a decent way to shore that up.
What do you think of these singleton breaks and which ones would you look to add?
Thanks for considering my unusual post
When you get to draft it, let us know how As Foretold plays out. I'm a bit skeptical in cube but it does look really fun!