Nice deck shake-up. You got some interesting stuff mixed in.
If you can, grab a copy of Tarnished Citadel. It's a Nomad's Stadium, but better.
I'm a little surprised you don't have a Militia's Pride. This card is awesome.
With the little graveyard recursion white offers, you should get a copy of Marshal's Anthem. Retaliate is an awsome board wipe spell. Jade Monolith will allow you to attack with impunity; it's a win/win either way.
I guess since I offered 5 cards to go in, I should suggest 5 cards to take out:
Raise the Alarm I think is at the top of the list. It just doesn't provide impact.
I've never found Kithkin Zephyrnaut to be that effective.
You don't have much equipment for Kor Duelist. Is he really worth the include?
lol....I can't even get to 5....man it's easier to suggest things to put in than to cut out...
Anyways, hope my suggestions help. Feel free to check out my decklist in my sig.
Cheers
Again, thank you for the response. Your ideas are ones I agree with entirely. The decklist is a wee bit out of date yet again as three of the cards you've mentioned have been cut/added. Specifically, I've since removed Raise the Alarm for the very reasons you posted as well as the underwhelming Kithkin Zephyrnaut.
The deck now includes a copy of Marshal's Anthem as well and it has proven itself very helpful thusfar as either just a continuous buff or for small amounts of recursion.
I've cut Kor Duelist before because I didn't feel it was doing enough, but I popped him back in after I shook the deck up and so many times I've had an opening hand that went something like swinging on turn 4 with a Kor Duelist holding a Quietus Spike and he just wins games or kills thing like it's nothing. If nothing else he's cheap and gains soldier/enchantment buffs, so I'm still opting to keep him currently.
As for the other cards suggested I'll look into them and if their prices are appropriate I'll acquire and test each of them as I go. Cutting cards just becomes harder and harder though.
So I'm curious why I haven't read any mention of Mobilization (great card, vigilance and token generator for soldiers) or Akroma's Memorial (amazing in creature heavy decks). Both are really useful to this deck.
Oh and near the beginning of this thread the argument that first strike isn't that relevant on the small bodies is hardly ever the case. If you have a decent number of ways to give them vigilance then they can attack and defend. Mainly my point is that you may not be taking into account that an 8/8 trampling green guy can come over and you can simply block with eight 1/1 soldiers with first strike and watch the big guy fall over while you keep your soldiers. With Darien out this is even more true because you can use the soldiers you currently have to gang-block a big guy while letting some other creatures through so your army grows to an absurd number of first striking tokens.
I'm sure you've already considered this card since Scars came out not long ago and thus you've probably seen the card but Elspeth Tirel seems well suited for this deck.
Also a few versatile spells you could use are Catastrophe for the optional Wrath of God or Armageddon effect (not sure what you should cut for this, maybe Day of Judgment since it allows regeneration) and Return to Dust or Aura of Silence which can easily replace Divine Offering.
As you've already mentioned Kithkin Zephyrnaut is something you should probably cut.
Also Aven Squire doesn't seem that great in here. Another creature that would probably better fill his slot and allow you to attack every turn to try and get some unblocked damage through is Gustcloak Savior.
So in recap:
7 Suggestions to add (11 if you considered the equipment tutors)
5 Suggestions to cut
It's always difficult to cut things.
Thanks for your reply, Omni! I've always been a fan of your 1v1 decks and one day plan on sleeving up your Zur deck for fun.
As for your suggestions. I'll see what I can do about Mobilization. I'm already including a few mana sinks such as Sacred Mesa and Student of Warfare at this point, both of which have been good, so I'll consider this one too.
I've tested Akroma's Memorial before for a long time and it just didn't work out in here. Too often I win with only 5 or 6 mana on the board and the times I do have massive amounts of mana I've already won, or I'm sitting with an empty board do to some sweeper effect (I play against a lot of Child of Alara lately).
As for the First Strike/Vigilance discussion. I agree with you mostly, but the situation just doesn't seem to come up. And if I have Darien on the board my opponent usually just opts out of attacking all together.
The deck is also receiving a Sword of Light and Shadowand now includes a Body and Mind in it though, so the equips are increasing again.
I do really like that Gustcloak Savior and may pop him in in place of something else.
Thanks to both of you for you input though. I'll probably pick up everything mentioned that's in my price range and test it out more. I really should try taking it on MWS, but I just never have. And I'll definitely check out your list GFireflyE.
Cracked some nice boosters the other day and plan on making changes soon. Opened a Brittle Effigy, a Sword of Body and Mind, and I plucked a Revoke Existence from one of them which I figure will go in place of Divine Offering since I've been meaning to get a better more versatile replacement for that.
Still open to suggestions or cards I might of missed. The deck is fairly consistent now winning in multiple ways. Explosive aggro starts, board wipe into explosive presence, land wipe into large quantities of land, slow board control and eventual lockdown, mass tokens, and graveyard recursion all take place viably.
I usually look at decks listed here to get ideas, but I never take a straight deck off the web. For instance I'll draw combos and ideas I might not of come up with my own and package them in, but all of my decks are my own at this point. My first Uril deck started as a netdeck and ended as it's own creation, which I think is what should always happen seeing as how meta can change a lot.
Totally dependent on the deck, but as a general rules I'd say once you hit 3-5 colors you'll want more non-basics for duals/etc. while mono colored decks will want mostly basics for mana doubling artifact effects and two colored decks can split it closer to half basics and half nons depending on what your goal/aim is.
I run Serra Ascendant in my 1v1 white deck and I can say for a fact that it always draws displeasure from my opponent, but at the same time it can be a total flop late game when your health has dipped and I don't think anyone has a problem sending a piece of removal its way.
The night before last I was playing with the same deck. Pulled Ranger of Eos, so I dropped it and tutored for Serra Ascendant and something else. Played out Serra Ascendant and it promptly ate a piece of removal. A few turns after I dropped a Sun Titan returning and playing out my Serra Ascendant again and it was promptly exiled.
Anecdotal evidence aside.. I can understand how it may be worrisome in the early game, but to give it a preemptive ban without every letting it see tournament play is just a bit silly. :/
Really just toss Clique together and smash faces. You don't even have to put thought into it. Lands, Counters, some tutors, Clique and a few utility creatures like Teferi. gg.
If I played my current Darien build against the original it would be a blowout of unheard proportions. My original version was lacking in so many good soldiers simply because I didn't own them and it didn't have DoJ, ***, Austere Command, or all of the other game turning cards that help the deck massively overtake another. I'd hate to see it.
My experience has been that "first one is free" lets you cheat 2 lands out of your deck construction. YMMV
We play a fire one free as well, and I would never drop my lands down from 36 to 34 because of it. And this is even with a Gilded Lotus, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and a Sol Ring in the same deck. And I've tested it thoroughly with 33-35 lands with none of the results being consistent enough even with the free partial mulligan we allow.
Honestly I would say EDH is the cheapest format of all (aside from cubing with a friend, which is free if he owns the cube).
It doesn't slay your wallet at all (unless you are going crazy and trying to make 3 EDH deck at once when you first start the game).
It's cheap(er) if you've been playing the game for a long time and you have a wide variety of cards, but to someone just getting into the game they likely only have newer stuff. As an example my EDH partner and I introduced it to some other friends who regularly attend FNM and play standard mostly. All their cards were Zendikar and on. So after they built their EDH decks we played a 4 way game and they just couldn't keep up with us even with our average decks simply because we were playing with more non-basics and simply older cards. A lot of which can cost more than a single booster.
I do agree that it's cheaper than other formats so my whole argument is kind of nulled though. I think the real issue is just how expensive Magic is as a game.
If anything EDH forced me to have a better understanding of the rules and interactions of the game more than any other format ever could.
The unfriendly part of EDH in relation to new players is that it can be murder on your wallet. I've bought so many cards specifically for EDH decks. Currently with my 5 decks I find I've put anywhere from 100-200 or even more into each deck.
Alternatively, I suppose that's nothing compared to what it might cost you to play standard seriously. lol
Made a number of changes that I'll update later today when I'm not at work.
played last night two games against the new elf legend going 2-0 and 1 against Child of Alara that I barely lost. True Conviction hit the field with 6 buffed soldier tokens, Darien, and about 3 other soldiers followed by a conqueror's pledge one game.
another game I popped ranger of eos for serra ascendant and student of warfare. board wiped with austere command. dropped the student and put him to lvl7 the next turn as well as dropping a sun Titan and starting my recursion engine.
even on my bad draws something would start happening around turn 4 or 5 and I would stabilize and just start controlling the board. the deck is now running smoother than ever.
Again, thank you for the response. Your ideas are ones I agree with entirely. The decklist is a wee bit out of date yet again as three of the cards you've mentioned have been cut/added. Specifically, I've since removed Raise the Alarm for the very reasons you posted as well as the underwhelming Kithkin Zephyrnaut.
The deck now includes a copy of Marshal's Anthem as well and it has proven itself very helpful thusfar as either just a continuous buff or for small amounts of recursion.
I've cut Kor Duelist before because I didn't feel it was doing enough, but I popped him back in after I shook the deck up and so many times I've had an opening hand that went something like swinging on turn 4 with a Kor Duelist holding a Quietus Spike and he just wins games or kills thing like it's nothing. If nothing else he's cheap and gains soldier/enchantment buffs, so I'm still opting to keep him currently.
As for the other cards suggested I'll look into them and if their prices are appropriate I'll acquire and test each of them as I go. Cutting cards just becomes harder and harder though.
Thanks for your reply, Omni! I've always been a fan of your 1v1 decks and one day plan on sleeving up your Zur deck for fun.
As for your suggestions. I'll see what I can do about Mobilization. I'm already including a few mana sinks such as Sacred Mesa and Student of Warfare at this point, both of which have been good, so I'll consider this one too.
I've tested Akroma's Memorial before for a long time and it just didn't work out in here. Too often I win with only 5 or 6 mana on the board and the times I do have massive amounts of mana I've already won, or I'm sitting with an empty board do to some sweeper effect (I play against a lot of Child of Alara lately).
As for the First Strike/Vigilance discussion. I agree with you mostly, but the situation just doesn't seem to come up. And if I have Darien on the board my opponent usually just opts out of attacking all together.
I like Catastrophe, though I'm skeptical of raising the mana curve. I've also recently replaced that Divine Offering with Revoke Existence. I definitely like the looks of Aura of Silence though.
My thoughts on Kor Duelist have already been posted. He has fantastic interaction even with the few equips I run.
And Aven Squire is in there for the same reason Duelist is. A low cost flier can easily lead to turn for blows from either the Quietus Spike or Sword of Fire and Ice.
The deck is also receiving a Sword of Light and Shadowand now includes a Body and Mind in it though, so the equips are increasing again.
I do really like that Gustcloak Savior and may pop him in in place of something else.
Thanks to both of you for you input though. I'll probably pick up everything mentioned that's in my price range and test it out more. I really should try taking it on MWS, but I just never have. And I'll definitely check out your list GFireflyE.
Still open to suggestions or cards I might of missed. The deck is fairly consistent now winning in multiple ways. Explosive aggro starts, board wipe into explosive presence, land wipe into large quantities of land, slow board control and eventual lockdown, mass tokens, and graveyard recursion all take place viably.
The night before last I was playing with the same deck. Pulled Ranger of Eos, so I dropped it and tutored for Serra Ascendant and something else. Played out Serra Ascendant and it promptly ate a piece of removal. A few turns after I dropped a Sun Titan returning and playing out my Serra Ascendant again and it was promptly exiled.
Anecdotal evidence aside.. I can understand how it may be worrisome in the early game, but to give it a preemptive ban without every letting it see tournament play is just a bit silly. :/
I imagine Dragons will get something like Dragon Fodder and the Knights might get Tivadar of Thorn.
We play a fire one free as well, and I would never drop my lands down from 36 to 34 because of it. And this is even with a Gilded Lotus, Extraplanar Lens, Gauntlet of Power, and a Sol Ring in the same deck. And I've tested it thoroughly with 33-35 lands with none of the results being consistent enough even with the free partial mulligan we allow.
It's cheap(er) if you've been playing the game for a long time and you have a wide variety of cards, but to someone just getting into the game they likely only have newer stuff. As an example my EDH partner and I introduced it to some other friends who regularly attend FNM and play standard mostly. All their cards were Zendikar and on. So after they built their EDH decks we played a 4 way game and they just couldn't keep up with us even with our average decks simply because we were playing with more non-basics and simply older cards. A lot of which can cost more than a single booster.
I do agree that it's cheaper than other formats so my whole argument is kind of nulled though. I think the real issue is just how expensive Magic is as a game.
The unfriendly part of EDH in relation to new players is that it can be murder on your wallet. I've bought so many cards specifically for EDH decks. Currently with my 5 decks I find I've put anywhere from 100-200 or even more into each deck.
Alternatively, I suppose that's nothing compared to what it might cost you to play standard seriously. lol
played last night two games against the new elf legend going 2-0 and 1 against Child of Alara that I barely lost. True Conviction hit the field with 6 buffed soldier tokens, Darien, and about 3 other soldiers followed by a conqueror's pledge one game.
another game I popped ranger of eos for serra ascendant and student of warfare. board wiped with austere command. dropped the student and put him to lvl7 the next turn as well as dropping a sun Titan and starting my recursion engine.
even on my bad draws something would start happening around turn 4 or 5 and I would stabilize and just start controlling the board. the deck is now running smoother than ever.