If you really want to cash in on the ETB triggers, why limit yourself to a single Norin? Meet Saltskitter, Norin's best blinking buddy. It's not quite as slippery, but it's another recurring trigger and it's beefier.
With the frequent ETB triggers you'll have, Cream of the Crop can filter through the deck fairly quickly.
If you build the deck to reliably get Norin and/or Saltskitter out, Soul of the Harvest can be a great draw source. Not so hot with just tokens though.
Are you just assuming which decks people will play, or do you know?
I'll second Wydwen, the Biting Gale, I've thought about building her for your league myself. Mix voltron and control. It doesn't have to be counter-heavy control, the meta is heavy on creatures. I prefer her over Sygg, has enough draw already and she comes with evasion and the ability to protect herself.
He was my first Commander and I like a lot about him. He has a fair cost/power ratio for an old legend, evasion, and he's not very threatening on his own so he allows a Grixis deck to sort of lie in wait building up.
edit: Oh yeah, having just read Weebo above, I also love RKF's art
Maybe because the vast majority of EDH players online are complete psycho idiot ragequitting freakshows? Just today I joined a game and the guy saw my commander, gave me crap for it then called me a homosexual deragatory slang then insta quitted. Not normal people, and that wouldn't happen in person. IF that ever did happen in person, that would be rather hilarious though. The biggest "house" as you put it sucks donkey balls, and I want no part of it. I will go stick to my little house down the street at my LGS where everyone is nice and we all have a good time. Anyways, just a thought why maybe the RC doesn't care about people playing online. Plus they have stated about a gajillion times it is a SOCIAL FORMAT. I dunno about you, but I find it little difficult to be social when there isn't anyone in person with you to play with. Text on a monitor or using Ventrilio just doesn't cut it. The house rules apply to human beings who socialize in person, not for the raging a-holes that get off trolling OP decks just to see if they can piss you off online.
I'm sorry that happened to you fattyluvboat, and I hope you reported him, assuming you're talking about MTGO, because I'm only talking about MTGO. Cockatrice doesn't matter to me, as it's not supported by WotC. I don't understand why the stereotype of "complete psycho idiot ragequitting freakshows" is perpetuated, most of the players I meet online aren't like that at all, and the few who are can easily be excluded via block lists. I've played Commander games online with hundreds of different players, and I can't even think of 5 that fit your description. It seems like much of your opinion is tied to which cards people choose to play, as if these choices make them "complete psycho idiot ragequitting freakshows." Balderdash.
You seem to misunderstand my point regarding house rules. The changes I desire would not affect paper players because you have the ability to use house rules to play how your group desires.
For all the discussion about Commander being a social format, the fact that socializing can and does happen via the internet is seemingly ignored. You don't need to be face to face with someone to socialize.
For me, the biggest obstacle to embracing the beta is multiplayer. Playing Commander with the beta is a joke. The Commanders are not in a command zone anywhere, they are sitting in the field of play whether they are actually in play or not. There's no card scaling like v3 uses to compress the field of play or each player, and the only scrolling that exists is side-scrolling. After a few turns, I have to scroll sideways just to see all of the permanents a player has on the field. Other zones such as gy, exile, and reveal are all locked in place, which combined with the dearth of visible play space makes it a pain to keep clicking them open and shut. The v3 system is much more user-friendly, it can be improved but they seem to be trying to change every part of it instead of just improving the things that need it.
(cryogen), I've tried to make your point before, but the RC made it clear to me that they simply don't care about online Commander players. There's some serious cognitive dissonance going on when they allow house rules but ignore the fact that the largest "house" where people play the format can't make house rules at all. It sucks to love playing something then be told that your opinion/input just doesn't matter because you play it online.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic. Regarding Time Vault, I'm with Jivanmukta. I'd like the ban list to either be empty or consistent. Either embrace house rules and empty it, or embrace the ban list and make it consistent.
As another MTGO Commander player, I've only experienced Standard Paris, and I like it. It's rare for me to mull down to 6 cards, and much rarer to go below 6.
It's hard to take this list seriously, I think it goes way too far. The Swords, Jitte, Wheel, Doubling Cube, All Is Dust, Thrun...really? I get that a lot of casual (err, social is the new casual?) players dislike combo, but you're casting a very wide net. There's very little rhyme or reason to your list, and I think this is precisely why the RC doesn't do what you're doing.
I host a weekly Commander tournament online that uses themes to restrict the card pool and I thoroughly enjoy rebuilding under new rules like that. For me, the fun comes from constantly changing themes, building new decks, and playing in a new meta every week. I understand that a lot of fun can be had by placing further restrictions on the card pool, but I think you should organize that on a local level rather than proposing this ban list. As far as I'm concerned, the official ban list is already tailored for social play. If you don't like fast mana, tutors, combo, or anything remotely powerful (as your list suggests), then ban them locally.
She's similar to Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper in terms of building the deck around her. You can get a lot of inspiration from Sek'Kuar lists as well. There is one major difference between the two commanders though, Savra can abuse tokens as sac fodder better. Because of this, my deck focuses more on smaller creatures that provide value before getting eaten up and becoming graveborn tokens, but you may want to focus more on generating tokens to sac.
Lots of good cards have already been mentioned, but here are some of the :symg::symb: things I use that could perform well for you:
If you're interested in combo, the following work well within the deck's theme and colors:
Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + any creature that produces tokens when ETB or dies = infinite sac/ETB/death triggers and mana if it produces 2+ tokens. Grave Titan is solid for this. You can also use any creature you want if you have Pawn of Ulamog in play.
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf + Sadistic Hypnotist = everyone else discards their hands. The sorcery speed sac outlet on the hypnotist can be problematic if they have removal, but for such a powerful effect it's hard to complain about that.
I'm curious about something, if there was a colorless sorcery printed like this:
Domain Destruction
Choose a land of each basic land type, then destroy those lands.
Rebound
Would it be banned as well?
I realize this is not a direct comparison, being a creature vs a sorcery changes some things. Creatures are generally easier to copy, but sorceries can be copied as well. Rebound is the closest mechanic I can think of to mimic the double trigger, leaving it open to be countered twice, but then again a creature just needs to be countered once. A creature obviously presents a threatening body as well, but it's easier to disable via mazes and cards like Humility and Torpor Orb. There are plenty of creatures played in the format that scream "exile me ASAP" because they can be abused. It seems to me that this is mostly about LD though, and a lot of people hate LD to the point of banning mass LD in their groups. So I wonder what people would think of that sorcery.
For everyone that's against the Sundering Titan ban, I must ask what exactly is stopping you from continuing to play him. From your comments, your playgroups don't have a problem with his power level or the game play experience that he creates. I suppose this is similar to the argument that individual play groups should house ban cards, well why not the other way around. If individual play groups have the power to house ban cards, then they have the power to house unban them as well.
I play online using MTGO. MTGO enforces the banlist authored by the RC. I have no option to make house rules unbanning a card.
I'm fond of including a Ranger of Eos package since he can fetch Norin. Other 1 CMC options to fill it out include your Weathered Wayfarer, Dragonmaster Outcast, Goblin Welder, Mother of Runes, Serra Ascendant, and of course the trio of Soul Warden clones.
Speaking of creature tutors, I'm partial to Congregation at Dawn. It's like having 3 Worldly Tutors in one.
If you really want to cash in on the ETB triggers, why limit yourself to a single Norin? Meet Saltskitter, Norin's best blinking buddy. It's not quite as slippery, but it's another recurring trigger and it's beefier.
With the frequent ETB triggers you'll have, Cream of the Crop can filter through the deck fairly quickly.
If you build the deck to reliably get Norin and/or Saltskitter out, Soul of the Harvest can be a great draw source. Not so hot with just tokens though.
Mirari's Wake, Akroma's Memorial, and Glory of Warfare are some good persistent buffs to your token army.
Titanic Ultimatum is hard to beat when it comes to Overrun effects.
I'll second Wydwen, the Biting Gale, I've thought about building her for your league myself. Mix voltron and control. It doesn't have to be counter-heavy control, the meta is heavy on creatures. I prefer her over Sygg,
He was my first Commander and I like a lot about him. He has a fair cost/power ratio for an old legend, evasion, and he's not very threatening on his own so he allows a Grixis deck to sort of lie in wait building up.
edit: Oh yeah, having just read Weebo above, I also love RKF's art
I'm sorry that happened to you fattyluvboat, and I hope you reported him, assuming you're talking about MTGO, because I'm only talking about MTGO. Cockatrice doesn't matter to me, as it's not supported by WotC. I don't understand why the stereotype of "complete psycho idiot ragequitting freakshows" is perpetuated, most of the players I meet online aren't like that at all, and the few who are can easily be excluded via block lists. I've played Commander games online with hundreds of different players, and I can't even think of 5 that fit your description. It seems like much of your opinion is tied to which cards people choose to play, as if these choices make them "complete psycho idiot ragequitting freakshows." Balderdash.
You seem to misunderstand my point regarding house rules. The changes I desire would not affect paper players because you have the ability to use house rules to play how your group desires.
For all the discussion about Commander being a social format, the fact that socializing can and does happen via the internet is seemingly ignored. You don't need to be face to face with someone to socialize.
Sorry if this is a bit off topic. Regarding Time Vault, I'm with Jivanmukta. I'd like the ban list to either be empty or consistent. Either embrace house rules and empty it, or embrace the ban list and make it consistent.
Partial seems so abusable to me.
I host a weekly Commander tournament online that uses themes to restrict the card pool and I thoroughly enjoy rebuilding under new rules like that. For me, the fun comes from constantly changing themes, building new decks, and playing in a new meta every week. I understand that a lot of fun can be had by placing further restrictions on the card pool, but I think you should organize that on a local level rather than proposing this ban list. As far as I'm concerned, the official ban list is already tailored for social play. If you don't like fast mana, tutors, combo, or anything remotely powerful (as your list suggests), then ban them locally.
Well yeah, I wasn't considering color so much as "he's a tree."
Adun Oakenshield = Beric Dondarrion
Chainer, Dementia Master = Qyburn
Gaddock Teeg = Howland Reed
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born = Robert Strong
Isamaru, Hound of Konda = Ghost
Jeska, Warrior Adept = Ygritte
Kiku, Night's Flower = Arya
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch = Melisandre
Saffi Eriksdotter = Meera Reed
I go by Kirdan there too.
I also host a weekly Commander PRE on Sundays. You can find more info about that here. (it's an old thread, be sure to go to the end for current info)
Lots of good cards have already been mentioned, but here are some of the :symg::symb: things I use that could perform well for you:
And here are some good
If you're interested in combo, the following work well within the deck's theme and colors:
Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + any creature that produces tokens when ETB or dies = infinite sac/ETB/death triggers and mana if it produces 2+ tokens. Grave Titan is solid for this. You can also use any creature you want if you have Pawn of Ulamog in play.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast + any persist creature + any sac outlet = infinite sac/ETB/death triggers for the persister. Woodfall Primus and Puppeteer Clique are the relevant ones here.
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf + Sadistic Hypnotist = everyone else discards their hands. The sorcery speed sac outlet on the hypnotist can be problematic if they have removal, but for such a powerful effect it's hard to complain about that.
Domain Destruction
Choose a land of each basic land type, then destroy those lands.
Rebound
Would it be banned as well?
I realize this is not a direct comparison, being a creature vs a sorcery changes some things. Creatures are generally easier to copy, but sorceries can be copied as well. Rebound is the closest mechanic I can think of to mimic the double trigger, leaving it open to be countered twice, but then again a creature just needs to be countered once. A creature obviously presents a threatening body as well, but it's easier to disable via mazes and cards like Humility and Torpor Orb. There are plenty of creatures played in the format that scream "exile me ASAP" because they can be abused. It seems to me that this is mostly about LD though, and a lot of people hate LD to the point of banning mass LD in their groups. So I wonder what people would think of that sorcery.
I play online using MTGO. MTGO enforces the banlist authored by the RC. I have no option to make house rules unbanning a card.