Hi guys. I've played control since the Shards of Alara era. I've recently branched out from a 1 year hiatus of MTG into EDH with a couple friends. We play mostly multiplayer games.
In a regular 60 card standard format it was pretty easy for me to figure out how much counters, bombs, draw cards, ramp etc. I needed. But I'm having a hard time figuring out this formula for a 100 cards EDH deck thats used mostly for multiplayer games... so I have a few questions I'd love help with.
*Note: I'm playing UW control with Grand Arbiter Augustin
1) How many counters do multiplayer EDH decks usually run? I'm guessing 0-3 from what I've read. Since Counters aren't as important in multiplayer EDH formats.
2) How many finishes should I run out of the 100 cards? (bombs)
3) What are good finishers for UW control in multiplayer EDH?
4) How much draw/fixing cards should I run in the deck out of the 100 cards? (Ponder, Brainstorm, BSZ, Sphinx's Revelation etc.)
5) How many artifact mana ramp cards should I run in the deck out of the 100 cards?
6) Since I don't have blockers or any real early defense, would it be good to run cards like prohibition etc. to setup a pillow fort?
7) How many board wipes should I run? I have a ton right now and I'm not sure how many most EDH multiplayer control decks run. I have about 7 or 8 in my deck right now... seems like a lot.
8) What about individual bounce/ exile/ removal? (oring, detention sphere, etc.)
Hey guys... I've been craving to play Magic again but don't want to invest the $500+ that most magic standard decks I'm interested in cost.
I've always only played standard but I know there are other formats. What formats should I look into for magic that I could play competitively for relatively cheap or just for fun/easy to start up with? (I'm trying to get some friends into it too)
Commander always looked like loads of fun. Also thought that format where you can use any cards was fun but I heard that the cards there are even more expensive for the "good" decks. Any thoughts or ideas on what format my friends and I should try out?
With the mana available, I doubt those Esper lists hardly ever hit a T4 Wrath. I don't see how a control shell without wrath is ever favored against something like RG BTE aggro. Perhaps, if we get more efficient removal and more efficient card draw that we could skip the wrath, but barring those things (something like Ponder + PtE), wraths are necessary for certain MU's.
Also, let's be frank here. We have to discuss M14 along with Block to get any useful predictive analysis. Purposefully ignoring M14 will only give you false perceptions. The fact that you are going to want to play Doom Blade and Lifebane Zombie somewhere in your 75 means you're going to either play less U cards (I doubt it), or less R cards (obviously this will be the case). This means you're not really gaining all that much for what you're sacrificing to run a third color.
Dimir Charm has enough applications against Aggro and Control shells to be maindeckable and takes care of your 'trump' cards like Rakdos Return and Dreadbore. Let's also take into account the fact that Burning Earth will be very ubiquitous for the entire time it's standard legal. Look at how many nonbasics you have to be able to run 3 colors, and laggy 3 colors at that (so many CITPT lands). You're almost conceding RDW MU's, BTE MU's, and possibly RW if that becomes a thing. That's not a spot I want to be in.
This isn't even taking into account we'll probably get something in UB to replace what we're losing (Think Twice / Mutilate). Which means these cards are probably going to be better in conjunction with a better manabase and more consistency than whatever R offers. There's a reason why traditionally control is 2 colors in Standard. We're losing buddy lands, which means the mana will be even worse, and from playing 3 and 4C Control this Standard while the mana was very good there were so many times that I didn't have the right combination to cast the cards I needed to. I can't imagine running 3 colors with a worse mana base + Burning Earth running around.
For all the control players out there, I recommend sticking to UB or UW post-Innistrad.
I completely agree. THIS is actually 1 of the main reasons I always stick to UB or UW or some iteration of control with 2 colors when the mana is the way it is going to be post-rotation. It's easy to say I have X cards more than you and my pool of X cards choices is way better but in all honesty none of that matters if your taking a hit to consistency in your deck.
Staying consistent is one of the best things I love about control. If you just build your deck in such a way that it is consistent and doesn't cave to itself, all you have to do is tweak for your meta slightly and you got yourself a pretty awesome chance at winning if you just focus on decreasing your misplays
The problem is Grixis needs a 4CC sweeper, otherwise speedy R/W and R/B aggro decks will destroy them before they build up the mana requirements for an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. Also Grixis doesn't have any enchantment destruction and Burning Earth can eat a non-basic mana base alive.
Still Grixis is my favorite color combinations and it does look strong in the kill spell and planeswalker department.
Considering the increase in popularity for Burning Earth then do you think it would be better to stick with UWx?
I had thought about the lack of an earlier sweeper for Grixis but I didn't think it would be that big of a deal. Fending off early attacks with their target kill spells. But maybe I am overvaluing their 1 for 1 target kill spells... Lack of enchantment destruction could be bad. One think the RTR block limits is the M14 enchantments that came out so that could be a thing.
Grixis has been doing really good in RTR block but that's all I really have to base my musings on. I haven't played magic in about 2 years and my brother and I are thinking about starting up again. I've been debating over UWx (b or r) and Grixis colors for control
Unsure of how the cards play and the way the meta is it's hard for me to make an "informed" decision without asking the community.
Obviously we don't know all of Theros yet but with the current RTR block + M14 and some theorycrafting of what Theros may bring, what would you say would be the best bet for control in the future? Grixis or UWx?
IMHO I think Grixis. Because of it's better showing in RTR block and how it generally has a better handle on aggro which is usually what's played in masses post block rotation.
This may sound repetitive, but Grixis is the number 1 control deck in the mtgo block meta, and has been having strong showings as of late.
While I cannot say what lands Theros may bring us, I can say that I'd be genuinely surprised if it does not become much more viable/popular come rotation.
Thanks for the valuable insight. I haven't played magic in about 2 years and my brother and I are thinking about starting up again. I've been debating over UWx (b or r) and Grixis colors.
Unsure of how the cards play and the way the meta is it's hard for me to make an "informed" decision without asking the community. I'll probably ask this to the community as a whole as well. Thank you for your input!
If your opponent plays slaughter games naming aetherling, how do you win the game? You certainly can't win off the back of 4 augurs. Your final option is to keep jace, architect alive until he ultimates and then search your opponent's deck for a finisher (that's a long shot).
If you have angel (or some other finisher you have lying around), you avoid this problem. My UW deck gets around this by playing mutavault, haunted plate mail, tamiyo, and lavinia of the tenth (plus gideon and entreat the angels if I feel like being different) as other ways to win if aetherling is removed. You didn't have any of these in your list, so I went with the best you had -- which is fairly good.
Angel is an alternate win condition in case your opponent plays slaughter games. Games naming aetherling is basically game over as your only other win condition is to ultimate jace and play one of their win conditions. Alternately, you could play 2 azorius keyrunes.
As to the cards you don't have, negate and dispel are for control matches. Clone is good vs midrange. Pithing needle is good against wolf-run, garruk, moorland haunt, aetherling, domri, etc. Celestial flare is better removal than renounce since it hits all creatures. All of these cards together probably cost less than $5.
You rock!! Thank you!
As luck will have it I entered a booster draft for m14 a while back and so did my wife. (Her cards are basically my cards, she enters just so I can get more stuff hahah) I actually have clone, and the celestial flares and negates. Thanks a bunch!
Also what do you mean by Angel is for Slaughter games?
Could someone throw a standard deck together for me with the following cards? Unsure of the staples that are used to start a deck like think twices, forbidden alchemys, dissipates over other counters etc...
Whatever best UW control deck you can make from it
Hi everyone. I have a block constructed rtr deck and I want to play with my friends from standard. This is my current deck. I'm not really good with putting decks together or modifying them... Can anyone "convert" my block deck to a standard deck optimally? Id greatly appreciate any help. Preferably stay a UW deck
jace, is your $$ concern.. but you do have the option of ratchet bomb in M14 and you might have to slip in oppotunity or divination for additional card draw options
I'm sorry but maybe I'm not following everyones info very well because I didn't know what Block Constructed is. I looked it up now and I think I know now what is going on. It's the RTR block only decks Cool!
Thanks for the decklist! That looks awesome!
What is the point of Jace Architect? I don't see how he's good. Could anyone explain how he works with the deck please? Thanks! It's been a while since I've played so I'm a little out of sync... (The last decklist posted)
Wow guys thank you so much for the help. Even a deck list
Lucky for me I already have sphinxes revelation as I've been collecting control cards here and there.
So would you guys suggest that I maybe not take apart that deck list because the neph drown yard is rotating out? What are the main wind conditions that I can use as a control player that is not rotating out? And will they function better in blue white black or blue white red?
Really appreciate the quick responses guys! I'm really wanting to make the decision today so I can purchase the cards and start playing with my wife
In a regular 60 card standard format it was pretty easy for me to figure out how much counters, bombs, draw cards, ramp etc. I needed. But I'm having a hard time figuring out this formula for a 100 cards EDH deck thats used mostly for multiplayer games... so I have a few questions I'd love help with.
*Note: I'm playing UW control with Grand Arbiter Augustin
1) How many counters do multiplayer EDH decks usually run? I'm guessing 0-3 from what I've read. Since Counters aren't as important in multiplayer EDH formats.
2) How many finishes should I run out of the 100 cards? (bombs)
3) What are good finishers for UW control in multiplayer EDH?
4) How much draw/fixing cards should I run in the deck out of the 100 cards? (Ponder, Brainstorm, BSZ, Sphinx's Revelation etc.)
5) How many artifact mana ramp cards should I run in the deck out of the 100 cards?
6) Since I don't have blockers or any real early defense, would it be good to run cards like prohibition etc. to setup a pillow fort?
7) How many board wipes should I run? I have a ton right now and I'm not sure how many most EDH multiplayer control decks run. I have about 7 or 8 in my deck right now... seems like a lot.
8) What about individual bounce/ exile/ removal? (oring, detention sphere, etc.)
Looking forward to some advice. Thank you!
I've always only played standard but I know there are other formats. What formats should I look into for magic that I could play competitively for relatively cheap or just for fun/easy to start up with? (I'm trying to get some friends into it too)
Commander always looked like loads of fun. Also thought that format where you can use any cards was fun but I heard that the cards there are even more expensive for the "good" decks. Any thoughts or ideas on what format my friends and I should try out?
I completely agree. THIS is actually 1 of the main reasons I always stick to UB or UW or some iteration of control with 2 colors when the mana is the way it is going to be post-rotation. It's easy to say I have X cards more than you and my pool of X cards choices is way better but in all honesty none of that matters if your taking a hit to consistency in your deck.
Staying consistent is one of the best things I love about control. If you just build your deck in such a way that it is consistent and doesn't cave to itself, all you have to do is tweak for your meta slightly and you got yourself a pretty awesome chance at winning if you just focus on decreasing your misplays
P.S. I wish fetchlands were brought back
Considering the increase in popularity for Burning Earth then do you think it would be better to stick with UWx?
I had thought about the lack of an earlier sweeper for Grixis but I didn't think it would be that big of a deal. Fending off early attacks with their target kill spells. But maybe I am overvaluing their 1 for 1 target kill spells... Lack of enchantment destruction could be bad. One think the RTR block limits is the M14 enchantments that came out so that could be a thing.
Which UWx variant would you guys suggest?
Unsure of how the cards play and the way the meta is it's hard for me to make an "informed" decision without asking the community.
Obviously we don't know all of Theros yet but with the current RTR block + M14 and some theorycrafting of what Theros may bring, what would you say would be the best bet for control in the future? Grixis or UWx?
IMHO I think Grixis. Because of it's better showing in RTR block and how it generally has a better handle on aggro which is usually what's played in masses post block rotation.
Thanks for the valuable insight. I haven't played magic in about 2 years and my brother and I are thinking about starting up again. I've been debating over UWx (b or r) and Grixis colors.
Unsure of how the cards play and the way the meta is it's hard for me to make an "informed" decision without asking the community. I'll probably ask this to the community as a whole as well. Thank you for your input!
2x Aetherlings? o_o My original deck was running 4x
Thanks
You rock!! Thank you!
As luck will have it I entered a booster draft for m14 a while back and so did my wife. (Her cards are basically my cards, she enters just so I can get more stuff hahah) I actually have clone, and the celestial flares and negates. Thanks a bunch!
Also what do you mean by Angel is for Slaughter games?
Whatever best UW control deck you can make from it
Awesome guys. Thank you!
Major thank you ahead of time!
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
10 Island
9 Plains
27 lands
3 Aetherling
3 creatures
4 Azorius Charm
2 Cyclonic Rift
4 Render Silent
4 Renounce the Guilds
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Syncopate
26 other spells
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Other cards I have:
Forbidden alchemy x4
Think twice x4
Detention sphere x4
Lyev skynight x4
Precinct captain x4
Azorius keyrune x4
Angel of serenity x2
I'm sorry but maybe I'm not following everyones info very well because I didn't know what Block Constructed is. I looked it up now and I think I know now what is going on. It's the RTR block only decks
Thanks for the decklist! That looks awesome!
What is the point of Jace Architect? I don't see how he's good. Could anyone explain how he works with the deck please? Thanks! It's been a while since I've played so I'm a little out of sync... (The last decklist posted)
Lucky for me I already have sphinxes revelation as I've been collecting control cards here and there.
So would you guys suggest that I maybe not take apart that deck list because the neph drown yard is rotating out? What are the main wind conditions that I can use as a control player that is not rotating out? And will they function better in blue white black or blue white red?
Really appreciate the quick responses guys! I'm really wanting to make the decision today so I can purchase the cards and start playing with my wife