MTG Salvation

Quote from Matchbox20

Goblin Piledriver only works with attacking goblins so, under normal circumstances and barring any crazy houserules, you can only attack with your own creatures and thus Piledriver won't get any sort of insane boost.

I was talking about the three non-Archenemies using Goblin decks.

From what I understand about the rules (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/91), all the non-Archenemies attack simultaneously. Piledriver reads "Whenever Goblin Piledriver attacks, it gets +2/+0 until end of turn for each other attacking Goblin", not "each other attacking Goblin you control", so he would get the effect from teammates' Goblins?

Each teammate chooses which of his or her creatures will attack the archenemy or a planeswalker the archenemy controls, and then those creatures all attack at the same time.

Making something like this possible:

Turn 1: 3x Lackey
Turn 2: swing with Lackeys -> 3x SGC + 9 Goblin tokens; 3x Piledriver
Turn 3: 3x Goblin King. That's a total of 21 Goblins, 18 of which can attack.

swing with:
3x 4/4 Lackeys
3x 5/5 SGCs
9x 4/4 Goblin tokens
3x 38/5 Piledrivers (+2/+0 seventeen times)
for (3 * 4) + (3 * 5) + (9 * 4) + (3 * 38)
= 177 damage.

I feel like if the non-Archenemies are playing the right decks, they're almost always guaranteed to win.

Ideas:
* 3x Painter (is there a restriction on the same decks being played?) Three people trying to mill you, each with counters and a turn 2-3 clock.
* Same with 3x Belcher, and ANT, TES, etc
* 3x Ichorid - Loaming Shaman prolly can't stop them in time
* One person cascades into Hypergenesis; the other two have nothing but large creatures in their decks.
* 3x Goblins. Would Piledriver's "Whenever Goblin Piledriver attacks, it gets +2/+0 until end of turn for each other attacking Goblin" work with Goblins other players control?

My personal opinion is that he's expensive and often win-more (only helpful when you're already winning). However, I don't think that using him, or swapping out Mistbind for him, is a terrible choice. You could also try Walker of Secret Ways, or perhaps some budget countermagic (Spell Pierce, Force Spike, Mana Leak) in the place of Forces and Dazes.

4-ofs: FoW, Standstill, Ornithopter, Mistblade, NotDH, Spellstutter, Cloud of Faeries, Zephyr Sprite, Mutavault
3-ofs: Jitte
2-ofs: Distortion Strike/Writ of Passage

Higure - too slow, win-more
Walker - outclassed by other ninjas, but might be alright as a 1- or 2-of
Equilibrium - too slow, interferes more than helps
Seer - too slow compared to 'thopter/Cloud/Zephyr Sprite

Ornithopter's necessary to get a ninja in and replay it on the same turn.
Plus he blocks things like Lackey.

You can check my sig for super-budget options.

Quote from liamb

Would you mind sharing the list? I think that 10 removal cards (I run 6+ 1 sharpshooter and I think that 8 is maximum) is too much but let us see the list.

EDIT: oh it is in your sig. Still i think you could cut one stingscourger and maybe one/two ww/gamepalms. That'd make room for additional land (you run only 21) and maybe 2 MWS.

Whoops, I just updated the list and forgot to update the landbase. I have 22 (5 basics, 6 fetches, 4 duals, 4 Wastes, 3 Ports - actually considering Hovels just for a little more B/R consistency, and since my friends don't play Wastes that much lol). I feel like Sharpshooter is more of a sideboard card, as he either ends up sitting in my hand or sided out most of the time. I like your suggestion though. I suppose I'll try -1 Gempalm, -1 WW, +2 MWM and see how I like em. Hopefully it won't slow my game down too much.

You're not supposed to keep Stingscourger in play. He's for bouncing those fatties that got cheated into play, or just stalling long enough for you to get a Piledriver through or something. Sparksmith can't be used the turn you put him out (unless hasted), damages you (and you have no control over how much), is a terrible topdeck, doesn't work well late-game, etc. If you're trying for the infinite combo with Kiki-Jiki, keep in mind that he's pretty useless as well.

How much MD bounce/removal do you guys run? I have 4 Gempalms (no MWMs though), 4 WWs, and 2 Stings. I know some people only run 1-2 WWs as tutorable targets, but I like having them for clearing the early board for Lackey and/or Piledriver and getting around pesky things like shroud and protection. Occasionally Gempalm disappoints, probably due to my lack of MWMs; however, chump blocking doesn't help me much usually, and a 2cc removal that cantrips is amazing enough to run 4. The Stings are there as extra opening hand insurance (ie, getting Lackey through), plus they're great the rest of the game as well. D'ya think I'm putting too much emphasis on getting an early Lackey through / keeping the opponent's board clear? Or do 10 removal spells sound reasonable?

I don't believe I've ever gotten a pop-up from MediaFire (Firefox w/ Adblock Plus, EasyList filter). Could you have already had a virus?

You can remove counters by dragging them off.

Wrath of God should never be in an aggro deck.

Quote from Redbeastmage

Imagine this game taking place on a larger scale and time frame then the cards and table suggest. The enemy planeswalker send his attackers running from the other side of the ravine/valley/field(declare attacks), and when you see them coming, you send your defenders out to engage them(declare defenders). Even if your foe shoots down a defender with a bolt of lightning or a blade of doom(priority before combat damage), the attacker was still preoccupied with him, and will not make it to you before the signal to retreat is called(end of combat step). Unless of course, he had trample, in which case the defender will be run over by the attacker in route to hit you.

Nice attempt to illustrate. However, when I send my creatures to attack, I send them to attack a player; if defenders happen to be there, then my creatures end up fighting them instead. If I can remove a defender before my creature gets to it and starts fighting it, then my creature should carry out the initial command of attacking the player, since there's nothing in its way.

Quote from Nis

How do we deal with Dazzling Beauty and the like? The attacking creature is blocked but there was never a creature assigned to block that creature.

Trample also becomes less special if every creature gets a version of it when attacking.

Things like Dazzling Beauty can be card-based exceptions.
The primary use of Trample is to "run over defenders"; if there're no defenders, then a creature with or without Trample should function the same.

One rule that I've never understood:

If a creature attacks and is blocked, and the blocker is destroyed/removed, the attacker is still considered blocked and doesn't deal combat damage.

It doesn't make any sense rules-wise or flavor-wise. A creature should need to be physically present to do something that's combat-related (ie, dealing damage or blocking.) Isn't that why combat damage was removed from the stack?

The only thing I can think of is saving the defending player the headache of assigning multiple "backup" blockers, but that hardly seems a good enough reason to have a rule that's so unintuitive.

How much would the game change if it were, "If an attacking creature has no blockers when it's time for combat damage to be dealt, it's dealt to the player"?

(above: whoops, forgot about Memnite.)

Yeah, I'm still playing around with the numbers for Drums and Opals, along with seeing how much I miss Vial. Some say it's an essential part of the deck, while other people say it's too slow and Affinity needs those quick wins from free drops. I think it's much better in the mid-game and if you have a higher curve, but if you're looking for the fastest clock possible, then 2-3 Opals in their place seem the way to go.

Nice job!

Just some opinions and topics for discussion:

Lately, many players've opted to replace Vial with Opal (I personally run three Drums and three Opals); I think it greatly improves the deck's explosiveness. Definitely the most useful of the new cards. I do miss all the cool tricks you could do with Vial (an instantly-resolved Ravager eating your own creature before it can die to removal, for example).

Etched Champion - Too expensive and not that great. Enforcer's lots more efficient, and Cranial Plating on an Ornithopter fills this guy's role better/faster.
Galvanic Blast - Most people don't play Lightning Bolts / Fling / Shrapnel Blast anyway.
Memnite - hmm.. idk. Has potential. Like turn 1 Artifact Land, Ornithopter/Memnite x3, Frogmite, Drum, Enforcer or something. Four more first-turn accelerants with Drum is just insane - seems enough to offset the loss of modular.

Great job, some nice options in there. My friends don't like playing against my Goblins; I might try some of the more casual ones in the places of Lackey, Vial, and Piledriver.

I don't know if you plan on including sideboard options (I suppose most casual players don't use one anyway).
Pithing Needle
Anarchy / Perish
Earwig Squad
Red Elemental Blast / Pyroblast
Leyline of the Void / Tormod's Crypt
Pyrokinesis

Quote from Telekinesis

Lightning bolt is there, in the casual budget deck. Non-casual versions don't have room for it.

I beg to differ. I run them in my mono-red build (and many others do too, with lots of success) and they're great for clearing the way for Lackey or dealing the last few points of damage. Sure you have to draw into em since Ringleader doesn't pull em and they're untutorable, but one and a Lackey in your opening hand oftentimes means gg.

Quote from meedlefinger

casual goblin deck and yeah i kno there are recruiters

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
18 mountain 4 lightning bolt 4 goblin grenade 1 skullclamp 1 sword of light and shadow	4 goblin guide 3 goblin lackey 2 goblin bushwhacker (here untill i get more piledrivers) 4 goblin recruiter 3 warren instigator 1 goblin piledriver	4 goblin warchief 4 goblin king 4 goblin ringleader 3 siege-gang commander

post any comments or suggestions if u want

and a better mogg toady would be mogg flunkies

Mono red's manabase should be able to support Wastes / Ports / Tectonic Edge with no trouble (besides budget). Goblin Chieftan > Goblin King. Equips are bad in Goblins (tempo loss, dilution of your Ringleader count). If you really want to run Skullclamp, Mogg War Marshal goes nicely with it (and any other sac effects, for that matter - like your Goblin Grenades and SGC). You'll want more removal than just the bolts - try Gempalm Incinerator and maybe 1-2 Stingscourgers. AEther Vial makes Goblins broken if you can afford it. And any reason you aren't running a set of Matrons? They're pretty invaluable for tutoring up Ringleaders or answers or whatever else you need, and off an Instigator, you can Matron -> find SGC/whatever -> play it.

So who's gonna back up the site and relaunch it?

I'm looking for a medium/high-res AEther Vial (the old version); can anyone help me out?