EpicBayl, while World at War could work really really really well somtimes, what happens if they kill/bounce our creatures (black, red, blue, and white all have this ability) mid-combat? Green is the only color that wouldn't be able to deal with us, but they would have tons of blockers (Elves, etc). The next turn after you play it, and even in the second combat phase, nothing happens except that you blew 5 mana. That leads into the second part: 5 mana. Take your example: you have a Lynx and a Sparkmage out on the board. You fetch, swinging for 4 with a lynx, pinging for one with the mage, and dealing no combat damage. End of turn, you burn to the face with 5 mana's worth. Even say it's 3, because you'll have red and white. That's probably more effective, in my opinion, then a big spell that leaves you with no options if countered. And if they do remove your creature, you didn't waste it - burn is always useful. So World at War could be cool, but then again, it seems like most of the time it's a waste of a slot and a waste of mana. Here's my list, in case you're interested. I use a few more spells and a few less creatures than most people.
There seem to be two ways to go with this build: 23 lands, lots of burn, aggressive creatures vs. 26 lands, less burn, lots of creatures. I'm running the first kind, whereas the second capitalizes on Squadron Hawks, etc, and often uses bigger things. You'll notice I curve out at 3 (minus the one Emeria in the board).
Hmm... All very valid points to allow me to see your thinking. But as you pointed out worst case scenarios, there is a good side. It still leaves us with two combat phases the next turn, at the very worst. I can understand what you're thinking with more burn, less of this. But the prospect of swinging twice with our landfall-loving creatures two turns in a row excites me. I brought it up because I've seen no discussion of the card in this deck, and it seems like it could be viable, if tested.
I like your list. Burn is always good, and can go straight to the dome if you're in range and don't have the creatures needed.
This doesn't work because sparkmage would not be untapped since it did not attack. The sorcery only untaps creatures that attacked that turn. Since sparkmage pinged, and didn't attack, it would not untap. But you are right, you should be able to end the game in 4 combat phases.
Thanks for catching that! I didn't even notice my mistake.
I just think Boros is so neat because there really are a vast amount of options with the deck. To run Koth, or not to. Squadron hawks or no? Stoneforge package or leave it out. Bushwhacker and Memnite? Sparkmage deathpinger. Teetering Peaks or Smoldering Spires? 12 fetches or 15. Tunnel Ignus mainboard or sideboard (metacall). More burn or less?
-Continuous 4/4s with haste.
-mana if worse comes to worse (for burn)
Disadvantages:
- 4 mana for a 4/4 with haste is, IMO, nowhere near as aggressive as a Goblin Guide/Geopede/Lynx
- Double red cost is kind of awkward especially if you also run Firewalkers
- Ultimate and second ability really do not impact our board very well with the few amounts of Mountains we have
- 4 drops mess up our curve IMO
Disadvantage/Advantage:
-gets targeted by tons and tons of removal
That's just what i think.
Hm... I would look at the 'Target on Koth's head' as a big advantage. I mean, unless he is the only thing keeping you going at that particular reason, for some very odd reason, then yeah, it's a disadvantage. But otherwise, it takes the pressure off your creatures, equipment, and yourself.
Buuuuut... What about the Bushwhacker? Is it good enough to be given a spot among the deck? I know that the Bushwhacker used to be a given for a Boros build.
Also, I was looking at World at War. I know that we curve out at 3, or 4 with Koth. This IS 5, but it is helpful for later game. And not only does it cover one turn of two combat phases, but TWO. That's got to be game within the two turns, wouldn't you think? I mean, I know Boros can win by turns 3 and 4, especially with amazing hands. But with something like 2 WaW in the deck, it's almost a guarantee win by 5 or 6. Say you have a Lynx out and a Sparkmage on turn 5. Play a fetch, crack it, play World at War. Your Lynx is attacking for 4 twice in the turn. So if they have two blockers, take out one on the first phase and ping the other with Sparkmage. Untap, attack again with Lynx. Your Sparkmage is essentially pinging for two each turn within the playing of World at War. Next turn you get to do it again for no cost while being able to play whatever you have left. This is all in a "What If" scenario, but it could be handy, in an odd way.
(At least I think so. This is strictly from a speculative view. :P)
Okay, Malacoda. You were telling me of the suggestion not to use Koth in Boros. What are the advantages and what are the disadvantages, from your perspective?
Haha, from the first post I knew you were using Boros. Well, I traded for my playsets of fetches, so that's one thing you can do. If you put a list up in the Trade Forum and have anything worthwhile I'm sure you'll get offers. I think you get anywhere from 2-6 fetches in a Zen box on average, and mostly fetches are interchangeable. So if you buy one box for $100 and get 4 fetches....that's $40 + a bunch of junk rares and maybe a Goblin Guide. Which means you still have to buy $90 more of fetches. Maybe you could just buy the one box and wait and see what you get then buy singles with whatever's left.
By the way, I would NOT recommend Koth for Boros. Head over to the T2 RW Aggro subforum for the discussion, but in addition to him being expensive, I think he's pretty bad for Boros.
I guess I could check out the trading forum. However, since I just hopped back into MTG, I have very, very little to offer for trades, let alone anything good. Might as well just buy the fetches.
About Koth: Really? I've read quite a bit of the T2 RW Agrro Subforum. It seems that half the people run Koth, and half don't.
I'm not the luckiest person, either. It's more of the numbers game: 1 in every 8 I get a mythic. The bad part about that is that the mythic I pull is utter crap. Yet my friend can sit at a table with 16 Worldwake packs and pull not one, but *two* Jace, the Mind Sculptors. And guess what he does with them now? Nothing. Doesn't put them in a deck. Doesn't sell them. Doesn't trade them. They're in sleeves so he can rub it in our faces that 8 months ago he pulled two. And now they're of no use. To him, us, or anyone.
Maybe it would be better for me to buy the singles of the fetches instead of the box and then ask for a Scars of Mirrodin box for Christmas instead of another Zen. Then I may be able to get the Koth of the Hammers, Spikeshot Elders, Sword of Body and Mind and Tunnel Ignus I'd like. (With a little luck, of course.) There's no way my parents would know how, where, or why to purchase singles.
Well, I'm wanting to build a Boros deck. And landfall is imperative in such a deck, right? Fetchlands have gotta be there, otherwise it's just... Not worth it. I suppose I could go WW Quest for the sake of saving money, but I really do love the sounds of Boros in Standard at the moment.
Also, I've never been to FNM. I've been to two prerelease sealed deck events and placed really well, oddly enough. I snoop around here and have been into Magic for a year and a half, but never have I taken part in Standard Constructed. I feel it's time to change that, and Boros can help me!
This may be an easy question to answer, or it may depend on money. However, I want playsets of Marsh Flats, Arid Mesa, and Scalding Tarn. I could either A) Fork out around 130 bucks for a playset of each or B) Buy a Zendikar booster box and ask for another for Christmas. At first, it seems logical to just buy the singles since a Zen box could be around a hundred dollars anyway. However, with asking for another box, I may have increased chances of getting more. Also, I'm looking for Goblin Guides, Steppe Lynxes, and Plated Geopedes. The commons will be easy to get a playset with a box, but the Guides are the big bonus (And they're not exactly cheap by single's prices, either).
It's not hard to tell what I would like to throw together with buying all these and taking a look at my signature, but I'm curious as to what others think. I dropped out of Magic a half year ago because of not having time, and stupid me decided to sell my cards. I HAD most of the fetches I wanted, but it's back to square one.
Thanks for that link, but that doesn't seem like anything remotely official yet. Also, I wasn't claiming that they WotC was going to name all of those cards the exact name (such as Gideon Whitewalker), but I do think that is Sarkhan's full name. It just makes too much sense. Also, I clicked on the image (which came straight from WotC) and Slave of Bolas was in the image link. (I don't know if they made that link name of if WotC did.)
Also in the powerstone image, I was concentrating more on the person than the necklace, and the name of it totally refocused my attention to the necklace (which is probably what I should have been focused on in the first place). I'm really surprised you don't see any value in any of this.
Either way, the name Vol, Slave of Bolas has been thrown around for quite awhile now. This isn't a new name.
No, I don't think this says anything at all. Otherwise, the Kor would be called "Kor Steeling Himself", "Mushroom Head Eldrazi Attacked" would be the allies on the hill, and "Underwater Eldrazi" isn't very creative.
And they titled it Gideon, the Whitewalker. Obviously they were giving him a name to show viewers he's most likely going to be a monowhite walker.
+1 Creatures you control get +1/+2 and gain lifelink until end of turn.
+2 Tap target permanent you do not control and untap target permanent you do control.
-8 Search your library for up to 3 equipment cards and put them into play attached to target creature(s). Tap all of target opponents creatures, if any creatures tapped this way are equipped or enchanted then destroy those creatures instead.
{4}
Seem reasonable?
Not exactly reasonable, no. 4 Loyalty counters for 3 cmc. His plus two ability is better than his plus one ability. Naturally, you'd have the better ability be the plus one. And his ultimate could pretty much win the game so long as you have two or so creatures out. You could throw an Unscythe, Killer of Kings, Behemoth Sledge, and Grappling Hook all on an unblocked 1/1 creature and do 12 damage. That's a 24 life point swing on turn five from a lowly 1/1.
I mean, that would be mega awesome for Gideon's card to be that good, but it seems really overpowered. And he's automatically out of bolt range when he comes down.
And to think that if you played a Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch on turn 1... You could have Gideon's loyalty counters to 6 on turn 2. That's ridiculous, honestly. This allows for a turn four solo alpha strike using the scenario I said.
I'm downloading it and watching tutorials at the moment so I know what I'm doing.
Agreed. World at War (Every time I type this I feel as if I'm talking about Call of Duty) at 5 CMC is pushing it.
Hmm... All very valid points to allow me to see your thinking. But as you pointed out worst case scenarios, there is a good side. It still leaves us with two combat phases the next turn, at the very worst. I can understand what you're thinking with more burn, less of this. But the prospect of swinging twice with our landfall-loving creatures two turns in a row excites me. I brought it up because I've seen no discussion of the card in this deck, and it seems like it could be viable, if tested.
I like your list. Burn is always good, and can go straight to the dome if you're in range and don't have the creatures needed.
Thanks for catching that! I didn't even notice my mistake.
I just think Boros is so neat because there really are a vast amount of options with the deck. To run Koth, or not to. Squadron hawks or no? Stoneforge package or leave it out. Bushwhacker and Memnite? Sparkmage deathpinger. Teetering Peaks or Smoldering Spires? 12 fetches or 15. Tunnel Ignus mainboard or sideboard (metacall). More burn or less?
Hm... I would look at the 'Target on Koth's head' as a big advantage. I mean, unless he is the only thing keeping you going at that particular reason, for some very odd reason, then yeah, it's a disadvantage. But otherwise, it takes the pressure off your creatures, equipment, and yourself.
Buuuuut... What about the Bushwhacker? Is it good enough to be given a spot among the deck? I know that the Bushwhacker used to be a given for a Boros build.
Also, I was looking at World at War. I know that we curve out at 3, or 4 with Koth. This IS 5, but it is helpful for later game. And not only does it cover one turn of two combat phases, but TWO. That's got to be game within the two turns, wouldn't you think? I mean, I know Boros can win by turns 3 and 4, especially with amazing hands. But with something like 2 WaW in the deck, it's almost a guarantee win by 5 or 6. Say you have a Lynx out and a Sparkmage on turn 5. Play a fetch, crack it, play World at War. Your Lynx is attacking for 4 twice in the turn. So if they have two blockers, take out one on the first phase and ping the other with Sparkmage. Untap, attack again with Lynx. Your Sparkmage is essentially pinging for two each turn within the playing of World at War. Next turn you get to do it again for no cost while being able to play whatever you have left. This is all in a "What If" scenario, but it could be handy, in an odd way.
(At least I think so. This is strictly from a speculative view. :P)
I guess I could check out the trading forum. However, since I just hopped back into MTG, I have very, very little to offer for trades, let alone anything good.
About Koth: Really? I've read quite a bit of the T2 RW Agrro Subforum. It seems that half the people run Koth, and half don't.
Maybe it would be better for me to buy the singles of the fetches instead of the box and then ask for a Scars of Mirrodin box for Christmas instead of another Zen. Then I may be able to get the Koth of the Hammers, Spikeshot Elders, Sword of Body and Mind and Tunnel Ignus I'd like. (With a little luck, of course.) There's no way my parents would know how, where, or why to purchase singles.
Great way to phrase that. I swear, I couldn't have been any more ticked when out came 3 Celestial Mantle in a box I was given. What a waste.
Also, I've never been to FNM. I've been to two prerelease sealed deck events and placed really well, oddly enough. I snoop around here and have been into Magic for a year and a half, but never have I taken part in Standard Constructed. I feel it's time to change that, and Boros can help me!
It's not hard to tell what I would like to throw together with buying all these and taking a look at my signature, but I'm curious as to what others think. I dropped out of Magic a half year ago because of not having time, and stupid me decided to sell my cards. I HAD most of the fetches I wanted, but it's back to square one.
Ideas?
Either way, the name Vol, Slave of Bolas has been thrown around for quite awhile now. This isn't a new name.
And they titled it Gideon, the Whitewalker. Obviously they were giving him a name to show viewers he's most likely going to be a monowhite walker.
That looks better, yeah.
Not exactly reasonable, no. 4 Loyalty counters for 3 cmc. His plus two ability is better than his plus one ability. Naturally, you'd have the better ability be the plus one. And his ultimate could pretty much win the game so long as you have two or so creatures out. You could throw an Unscythe, Killer of Kings, Behemoth Sledge, and Grappling Hook all on an unblocked 1/1 creature and do 12 damage. That's a 24 life point swing on turn five from a lowly 1/1.
I mean, that would be mega awesome for Gideon's card to be that good, but it seems really overpowered. And he's automatically out of bolt range when he comes down.
And to think that if you played a Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch on turn 1... You could have Gideon's loyalty counters to 6 on turn 2. That's ridiculous, honestly. This allows for a turn four solo alpha strike using the scenario I said.