I wrote my response in parts actually so it doesnt feel cohesive as a full and I agree with that, I apologize for the rudeness, that was uncalled for.
My biggest complaint with the ramp comes from my experiences playing Maelstrom wanderer and 2 original voltron decks, Sigg River Guide and Isamaru. I currently pilot a Sigarada enchantress deck.
My Maelstrom Wanderer deck I have often experienced consistency issues in the late game. Early game is fine, getting wanderer out turn 4 or 5 is consistent but due to the amount of ramp I run to get that consistency, often times or not I do not hit good cascade. Arguements aside any bit of ramp casted for free is advantage but I end up digging and top decking and durdling a lot until I hit one card that explodes my board or I get maelstrom killed and play him again. I see this issue with Daxos in your list in the alternative. Unlike Maelstrom wanderer having all that mana ramp does not ensure Daxos will get to do what he does consistently, which is hitting opponents value cards to cast. If he dies for the 2nd time, I think its going to be a rough time because you would have played the ramp in your hand and Daxos is 50/50. I see the same ratios with Maelstrom wanderer and I am running more cards that make wanderer a danger than a single eldrazi conscription.
The other half is the voltron. Sigg river guide for me was amazing because he came built in protection. I could stick cheap things on him like Grafted Wargear and really beat house. That deck had less than 11 creatures. In Isamaru, I ran a mother of runes also but I often found it unremarkable due to the gravepact effects, black suns zenith, mass removal in white, a huge amount of creatures from Green and just bounces on my gear from blue. I could not reliably give Isamaru's voltron cards the protection it needed and certainty mother of runes does not protect Daxos from a Tower of the Magistrate.
Im trying to think of consistent competitive cards that I keep running into and I played a lot french EDH as well so I am not thinking in terms of your meta and maybe that is the problem. My play group can easily allow an armageddon through and even if I have a flagstones (my Eight and a Half Tails permission deck), they would recover just fine.
Back in Maelstrom wanderer if I ramped really fast, I got hammered down by 3 players until they felt I was crippled. I dont see Daxos recovering from a crippled position as well as Maelstrom wanderer and that is why I dont feel ramp is helpful in his board. He should have some since he needs to play more cards per turn than an average UW deck but he should be focused on protecting his board and preventing the crippling ever happens. That is just my opinion on why there is too much ramp in this deck. Consider cheaper ramp in lieu of cards like Gilded Lotus, or Caged Sun that could also maybe draw you advantage. I have seen Druidic Satchel do amazing things. Coldsteel Heart and Land Tax and if you can do the whole snow lands with scrying sheets thing it gives you a lot more digging power. I think to add the amazingness you are seeking for in this list you need passive advantages built into your card choices that would let you manipulate your draws much better. When you want ramp, you have just the right amount and when you want cards to counter, you will have enough. Right now I feel like you will end up with bad amounts of one or the other and end up playing a Johnny mindset.
I can see your argument for Armageddon or Cataclysm, its powerful if you can wipe lands with Daxos out, have a flagstone and proceed to crawl your way back with hitting value off the top of your opponents. But I feel with the list you gave, this isnt an optimized strategy in the list you presented. You could include more permission (which you said you will) and I would add things that would let you tutor for Armageddon. Consider playing Restore Balance for more control and cards like Knowledge Exploitation,Muddle the Mixture, Mystical Tutor, and Personal Tutor to consistently lock the board out when you have Daxos with 1 or 2 pieces of evasion.
Gameplay
The first few turns you are looking to setup any sort of engine. Phyrexian Tower with a Reassembling Skeleton, Gravecrawler, or Bloodghast can be a good way to put some pressure on early. You are looking for ways to hold cards because unless you have an arena out or some form of mana engine going, it is difficult to hold out early aggressors without going into top deck mode. Save your removal for things that can only threaten you. They can be limited sometimes depending on your deck package so stick to removing combo pieces that could make the board completely unstable for you.
Phage the Untouchable
A Primer in touching people in the wrongest way possible.
Introduction
So you wanna touch people eh? Phage the Untouchable is a hilarious yet powerful EDH multiplayer general. I have to warn you about a few things before we begin this insanity.
- Yes the goal is to touch people with Phage.
- Yes you lose the game if Phage is played out of the Command Zone.
- Yes this deck has a gimmick that people can see from miles away.
I am also the very political type player. My play style involves bartering, putting people into very awkward positions and making them make terrible decisions about the board state. This is often why the cards I picked for my decklist is the way it is. My decklist isnt optimized for best in slot but this Primer will dive into the many facets of playing Phage the untouchable.
Why Play Phage?
Phage has incredible power. Once the gimmick is out after the first two or three times you play with this deck in your play group, you will find the games change entirely and require you to play with more finesse and deliberation. Phage is incredibly fun and interesting and because of the cost to her abilities to touch people, the rewards are so much more satisfying. Often times or not I have games where people completely forget they are exposed to her.
Reasons to Play
- Touching People turns them into soot
- Seeing the fear in your opponents eyes knowing they could be touched at any time
- You like a complicated board position
- You believe Magic is a puzzle game where you need to figure out the pieces in order to win with a very unique condition.
- You always have a graceful way of removing yourself from the game.
Reasons NOT to Play
- You have to somewhat understand your meta in and out
- You have to be charming and play politics. People wont just let you touch them!
- Your board positions are alluring and obviously inviting and because of it Phage's plans to touch people are always exposed.
- You always have a crux that could remove yourself from the game very easily.
How the hell do I Summon her Majesty and use her Effectively??
There are multiple ways to get Phage into the field safely. Some are more involved than others but often there are only a few situations where Phage needs to be cast.
1 - You immediately want to touch someone as soon as possible. Maybe you're lonely or someone really is asking for the caress, but if a player is threatening the game with a combo, often times a hasted Phage can find her way in unexpectedly. Warning, this is extremely dangerous and often causes you to tap out. Be prepared for the Table to respond in kind when a player is removed from the game like this.
2 - You want to threaten the board. This is probably why I dont have as many evasion/haste effects as I should. Often times I find having Phage on the field causes players to do quite the irrational plays such as try to gain control of her, or play vows on her that make her trample, or stronger. It changes the way they tutor for cards and play creatures. This is where politics comes into play and requires a good understanding of your meta.
This is black control remember. The toolkit here is to slowly take away advantages where at the point where Phage is threatening to touch someone, that player lacks just the right amount of resources to stop it.
Tools of the Trade:
Sundial of the Infinite
The most powerful cards that work best with her is Torpor Orb and Sundial of the Infinite. I rarely attempt to cast Phage without at least 2 guarantees if I am unsure about my opponent's hands. If something should happen to your Torpor Orb while Phage is on the stack, Sundial of the Infinite can remedy the issue at a cost but at least you wont lose the game instantly. Often times Sundial of the Infinite also causes the person sitting next to you be completely unable to do end of turn effects. This is because as you are ending your turn, and he responds by trying to do things, you can activate the Sundial after his spells/abilities are on the stack and have them exiled as well.
Endless Whispers
Let's you kill an opponent by sacrificing Phage and giving it to an opponent. Since it comes into play from the Graveyard, Phage triggers the instant death for that player. They lose the game and can't give it back so Phage is exiled to your command zone. Let alone sacrificing, the opponent HAS to block Phage. So you can use her deathtouch to an advantage and kill something huge and important while then giving it away to another player. It is multiplayer politics at it's finest.
Also you could combo with Abyssal Persecutor and give him away to allow you to play Phage safely as well.
Beware! Players can Sacirifice her in response to the lose trigger if you give Phage to them. They could then give it to someone else even you if you do not have your defenses up!
Torpor Orb
This card is an absolute menace in EDH. It stops ETB effects and it even stops creature abilities that trigger when other creatures enter the battlefield. This is often the key piece of the puzzle I get in every game.
Hall of the Bandit Lord
This land gets people unexpectedly and often times people FORGET this card is on my board. "How did Phage get haste?" get's asked a lot.
Beacon of Unrest
Incredible utility here. Gets you back important artifacts or let's you reanimate a creature from opponent's deck and is recursive. I have often time's combo'd this with Liliana Vess but I have since replaced her with a Diabolic Tutor.
Platinum Angel
You dont lose the game. Make her indestructible and give her a pair of greaves and you are set.
Call to the Netherworld
Chances are after you cast Phage once, you are leaving her in your graveyard. She becomes way too expensive at 9 mana and you are probably out of tricks to get her back into the field other than from your hand.
Thrull Wizard
A Slightly meta card, but often you will be countering Phage yourself to put her into the graveyard and finding ways to put her into your hand afterwards with cards like Disturbed Burial, Lord of the Undead,or Phyrexian Reclamation. Phage is quite content and safe in the graveyard this way.
Tutors and Card Draw Phyrexian Arena, Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are absolute musts for this deck. You can run out of cards very easily and often times or not your board position just isnt ready without another piece of the puzzle to really lock it in.
Phyrexian Obliterator + Arena
One of my favorite end of turn control mechanisms. Removes creatures and opponents have to sac permanents.
Read the Bones, Druidic Satchel, Snowlands + Scrying Sheets
Deck manipulation is needed. You want lands when you need them, removal when you need them and creatures when you need them. Druidic Satchel with Scrying sheets is absolutely an amazing tempo combination. I have seen players get so far ahead with a turn 4 druidic satchel just blindly doing it every turn in multiplayer.
Nether Void
Insane black enchantment and perfect for control. Get out a good engine for something (Defense, mana engine or durdling draw engine) and use Nethervoid to counter Phage to stick her in the graveyard. All the while it is slowing down your opponents considerably.
No Mercy and Lethal Vapors
Phage is slow. It has a hard time with swarm decks or ramp decks. Monoblack control is about slowing down the early game, locking out players resources mid game and then killing them as chances arise. These cards let you stay in the game and play politics.
Massacre Wurm
Answer to token decks. Phage has an incredibly difficult time handling a lot of creatures attacking her. This could potentially kill players if they are not careful. Also consider Netherborn Phalanx as another version of this. It also has transmute should you need to tutor for 6 like a Wurmcoil Engine if you're low on health.
Contamination
A very hateful card but if played at the right time, could keep people out of the game for a while for you to setup. Be ready to kill people before this leaves play.
Call to the Grave
Call to the Grave is an expensive enchantment but is just enough power to not be instantly hated out but can be enough to keep you in the game. Phage is a zombie so even just threatening the board with her in play can often do enough damage to the political scene that causes players to be on tilt. Plus you are sporting a good zombie package so having this lets you keep a field advantage with creatures.
Guardian Beast
An expensive $ card, but artifact protection is very useful. You can use Darksteel Forge instead but it much more mana costly.
Polluted Bonds
I run this card because punishing ramp is very important in Monoblack control. You do not have a way to catch up quickly so the best alternative is to make them pay for it in life difference. This way maybe you could ping them to death or put them in kill range for another player. Monoblack has no need for fetches but the 3 color decks live almost exclusively bolting themselves with a Fetch land + Pain land. Adding more damage ontop of their fetches can slow them down or cause them to bleed very well at a price to get rid of this card.
Meta Cards (Still Heavily Advised):
Deathgrip
Nothing like DESTROYING pesky green spells as they are being cast. Green Ramp is incredibly dangerous because they will outaggro you or cast a tooth and nail and you end up just plain out of the game. Plus this answers incredibly difficult to play against Generals like Maelstrom Wanderer, Uril the Miststalker, and Green Token decks like Rhys the Redeemed or Omnath.
Thespian Stage
Very important land. With the new Legendary Rules this Thesbian stage has saved me an Urborg several times. I found people would rather strip the Urborg as opposed to the Coffers if I have this card out simply because having 2 Coffers with no Urborg is not as good as having 1 Coffers and an Urborg. If they target your Urborg you can have Thesbian Stage become a copy of it in response and with the new Legend Rules choose to get rid of the original that they targeted.
Liliana of the Dark Realms
Often players overlook this card or they focus it seemingly mindlessly and devote too much to getting it off the field. Either way it helps you fix mana a little bit and can remove pesky indestructible creatures if need be. At 4 mana it is a manageable ramp card to fill a slot.
Nirkana Revenant
Very good creature to keep alive on your board, can accelerate you very nicely. This card will draw you incredible hate the moment you drop it since you can take advantage of it's mana powers immediately.
Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth
Tutorable combo for infinite colorless mana. This an important engine if you need to win with Geth, Exsanguinate or something like that.
Removal:
There are a lot of options for removal in Black but many of these are mandatory due to the general slowness of your deck at the start of the game.
Black Sun's Zenith, Sever the Bloodlines, Bane of the Living
These cards are insane value for Phage because she usually does not have a lot of creatures in play and even if she does, they are the fodder kind like Bloodghast or Reassembling Skeleton. It handles two things Phage has a difficult time dealing with, tokens and indestructible creatures. Phage is slow, she is intended to strip away resources until she can safely arrive on the battlefield and do her job. Consider also Mutilate and Cannibalize if more exile is needed.
Night of Soul's Betrayal and Ascendant Evincar
These two cards out together is incredibly brutal for your opponents. Sometimes you can single out another player also with a Curse of Death's Hold also to give a player -3/-3 if they aren't playing black. This could hold back a player for a few turns while they dig for removal instead of putting up their token/creature board and this is often where I find the chance to get a hasty Phage in.
Dark Imposter
This card is an absolute house in monoblack. If you can consistently maintain a good mana engine going, this card can pick apart board positions incredibly easily while protecting itself if it hits a nice creature.
Syphon Flesh
One of my favorite removal tools in black. This has the added effect of giving us bodies to mess around with. Additional Gravepact triggers, Extra mana to Phyrexia tower, blockers. This card is extremely powerful in multiplayer. Also Uril sucks.
Cards to Consider:
Vorrac Battlehorns
Trample and a nice combat feature. Very useful if you can get Phage in with the combat trick.
Leshrac's Rite
Urborg is almost always out in my Meta. Swamps are probably the most prolific land type due to Urborg, second is Islands.
Although Filth is probably a much better replacement.
Lich's Mirror
This card is more of an "Oops, **** really hit the fan" card. I am also not really sure what happens if you died instead by 21 points of General Damage, but I imagine Lich's Mirror does not protect against that. This is probably the last option of getting Phage into your deck so you can tutor her up and play her properly.
Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage or Hex Parasite
Easy to implement combo. I like Hex Parasite better because the utility to instant kill planeswalkers is better than the one time use Hexmage. But it depends on your meta and plus Hex Parasite can get good beats in early.
Choosing the Queen's Legion
So those cards listed above are the key parts of the Phage deck. The skeleton to the zombie we are constructing. The next part is figuring out what kind of deck you need in your meta. There are multiple variants you can run in mono-black EDH that Phage naturally builds into. Alternative win conditions easily can include a life-gain package and run Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood, or any other classic Black "I Have a ton of Mana and I will put it all into this one card" combos such as Boseiju and Exsanguinate.
Commentary: Re-Animator package is extremely versatile. It opens up your graveyard and opponents graveyards to muddle around with and lets you play safely knowing your cards continue to recycle for value. Cards like Geth and Corpse dance let you continue applying pressure if you have a decent mana engine out while Grave Titan keeps you alive with infinite chump blockers and if you continue to bring him back with oversold cemetery or corpse dance, your opponents have a hard time keeping up. There is no inherent mill in this deck so early on you might not want to keep the reanimate effects in your hand, instead look for value cards like Moonlight Bargain and removal or recurring creatures from the core cards to setup an engine. Inherently there is no benefit to playing Phage with this package. Infact it is probably better to play this with a general like Balthor in all honesty.
Commentary: This is package I run with Phage because I feel its flavorful enough to match her, and it is incredibly fair. There are combos here but they require usually >2 cards and theyre not the kind that as soon as you draw the right card you win. This package involves building resources and advantages over time, protecting them and then going in with the kill. There is a built in infinite mana combo with Rotlung Reanimator + Conspiracy (Naming Clerics) + Altar + Any Creature. There are a few options to play Conspiracy in this deck, 1 naming Clerics for the Mana Combo or for the Nantuko Husk + Rotlung combo and given the many ways to make Phage unblockable/haste you could give it to the Nantuko for instant kills. Plus the Nantuko is a sac outlet. Or naming Zombies to open up the rest of the core cards to the Zombie package (Conspiracy + Call to the Grave, or Patriarch's bidding for ultimate value) , or naming demons and abusing the hell out of Blood Speaker.
Commentary: This is the combo player's package. Draw cards, get infinite mana, kill people. Early game you tutor for pieces or draw cards for gain. Get a mana engine going then go for the late game spells like Diabolic Revelation or triple tutor increasing ambition and just kill people with anything you want. The card draw should keep you going but consider cards like Bloodgift Demon, Ambition's Cost and Runescarred Demon to stay alive early after your removal is about used up.
Q. How come Endless Whispers does not return Phage to my graveyard after that player loses?
A. 800.4a. When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game, all spells and abilities controlled by that player on the stack cease to exist, and any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time he or she left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who's still in the game.
Because there is no effect that gave control of Phage to that player (It came under his control from the graveyard, you merely own it) no effects are ended to return control of Phage back to you so it then becomes exiled. You have the choice of putting her back into the Command Zone.
Boy oh boy this decklist is everywhere. It looks like youre trying to build a ramp daxos voltron with the intent of not playing your opponent's spells.
Your sovereigns of lost alara targets a grand total of 6 targets. Really only eldrazi conscription because lets face it there isnt any other better target for 6 mana devoted to sovereign.
You have mother of runes and the blue god for a deck with 11 creatures. The ability is wasted. Youre better off replacing these with creatures that are lower cost that would give you better cohesiveness with the other cards you've put out. (Also would battle mastery trigger his ability twice?)
Do you want to protect Daxos and make him the win? Or do you want your deck to constantly be able to do what it needs to do because right now it looks torn between those two ideas and trust me, it isnt going to work trying to do both.
The weird part to me is you have a ton of ramp but obviously bent on playing your general turn 3.
Turn 3 you play your general. You swing, do you cast their card if its valuable? What if its just more ramp. Do you hold yours back for next turn? It seems slightly weird to accelerate this way considering how low cost the rest of your deck is. I estimate Daxos wont hit useful things 50% of the time and even then often times you probably dont want to invest the mana into those cards because it wont help with your board position since oyu just want to ramp into time stretch (Better off playing Augustra IV instead).
Armageddon seems really awkward too unless you have like a whispersilk cloak (which is also awkward since you could put a card like Unquestioned Authority which is much cheaper and since you have only 11 creatures, you wont lose the ability to target your own general) on Daxos since often 1 mana costing removal will get rid of your general. You'd be resetting games with this card more often then ending them I feel like. I dont see the point of Angelic Destiny, youre better off with a lower costing enchantment like Spirit Mantle. At least then you can make sure of your minamo at waters edge each turn to untap Daxos and use him as a pro creature blocker. Because without those cards I dont see the point of Minamo at all.
If you focus your general, you can put creatures like Silent Arbiter. You said you wanted this to be control, it looks to me right now like a really weird ramp which isnt control at all considering you lack a lot of permission. This is in the multiplayer section too so I assume a game of 4 people, hitting one person with Daxos is not enough control to swing the board politically.
I dont see how you plan on playing forbid more than once. With that much ramp you wont have cards unless you hit a sphinx or blue sun. But since you lack the permission often you wont get to play those cards without going punished. Same goes for Force of Will, I dont see how you can afford to give away any card advantage consider your deck is majority artifact (18) and lands (36). Also you have like a total of 20 some blue cards. 5 of which are counters, a few more are removal. I dont think you'd ever want to pitch those, nor jace or tezz since they are absolutely too important to your deck to toss to force of will. I think just replacing it with counterspell or hell even cancel would be better. Try things like Memory Lapse, Lapse of Certainty to manipulate your opponents top card.
I also dont see the point of greaves. Giving your own general shroud seems awful here. Even if you play it turn 2 to just get a turn 3 daxos swing in, your general is dead in the water cuz he is stuck as a 2/2. Seems only viable for late game and even then you dont have creatures that would benefit from having haste. Consider the Hexproof greaves instead. And why even bother with haste? You rarely will be able to play the card you exile on turn 4 especially considering youd rather play like another sword or protection for Daxos.
Again it just bothers me that you wanna play cards like Cataclysm but then you end up in a position thats really awkward where you have your general, an enchantment on him, an equipment i suppose and 1 land. You remove the ability to play cards from your opponents by doing this, thus gaining no further value from Daxos in that regard, if you intend to kill them with this card, those equips better be good and have survived a turn because in my play group swords are destroyed almost instantly. If you have greaves on him its even more awkward. After that, you have incredibly high chances to draw only mana ramp which wont be able to be played until you have at least 2 lands. Why put yourself in that position ever? You end up negating a lot of your own cards with Shroud on him and since you have 11 creatures in your entire deck, I dont see you being able to reliable want to target Daxos when you want to. Eslepth is dead since jumping anything else in your deck doesnt do anything.
Why flagstones with 6 plains? You have 4 fetches already. It just doesnt seem optimal with the mana symbols you have. it seems youre always going to be hurting for white mana over blue since you dont have a lot of permission. I continue to feel all this ramp is unnecessary because you dont have anything to use all that mana on without counting on Daxos hitting something relevant. You tezz for more ramp but at the end of day you just end up BSZ or Sphinxing yourself for more ramp hoping to hit an Eldrazi Conscription? Seems bad with only 4 counterspells. You have scenarios where you have to be already winning to continue to win harder. You also just flat out lose to cards like fracturing gust, akromas vengeance, austere command, any wrath. Cuz as soon as Daxos leaves play you have nothing to do but to play catch up with paying 2 more to play him and hoping to ramp harder than your opponent to get him a few equips/enchants which if youre ramping against a maelstrom wanderer deck or asuza, youre already just out of the game because the other cards in your deck doesnt do anything.
I agree with a lot of these. The coinflipping and dice rolling seems strong if you have things like Look at me I am the DCI or having magical hacker.
Isochron scepter seems almost auto include because the card is a house even without un cards.
@Winterlude and I agree, It is why I am never playing Frankie Peanuts because rules discussions leads to unfun because people are arguing over trivial things. Cheaty Face however I think is easy to set rules for because I think its if you dont catch the guy in act of putting it into play, then you missed the trigger.
I have to sit down with the cards sometime this weekend and really look through them with the cards I do have available and see what comes out archetype wise but rather than asking for combos I guess I should ask, What would be good drafting archetypes?
U/W Skies? Black Discard, Blue Combo? these kinds of questions I will have to answer sometime soon before constructing the actual cards.
I am resurrecting a previously poorly executed cube idea.
I made an unglued unhinged cube a few years back (Full foil set of unhinged minus the super unfun cards like Gleemax or Mox Lotus).
The cube had a bunch of other playables often seen in various formats for fluff and needless to say, after the initial fun and novelty of the cube wore off after the first play through, the cube turned out to actually be frustrating and illconcieved.
That being said! I want to ressurect it and do it justice this time. I am a huge sucker for interaction and some of unhinged cards provide the most interesting interactions ever, let alone the card interactions, the player interactions are incredibly fun also!
But I want it to be fun and competitive, combos that work with unhinged cards, an environment where veteran players would know to bring commons so they can draft Collector Protector or bring their own boosters from some crazy set for Booster Tutor.
But I also want to know about playables that would mesh well with the unglued and unhinged cards themselves and my knowledge of magic cards only span from 4th edition to Ice age and Zendikar onwards + Mercadian Masks and EDH Staples. I come to you to ask about anything you guys would enjoy playing in a cube and how they might work with these off beat cards.
My experiences from playing the deck goes as follows.
1. Having 1 piece of protection is not enough.
You need both torpor orb + sundial for instances. This could be because of the format I play in, but generally once people see one of these obvious methods to get phage into play, they will save up bounce/destroy effects to try to get you to kill yourself.
2. Be wary of tutoring for these pieces quickly.
Against someone who hasnt seen your deck before, you just tutored for 2 things and will probably combo out.
Against someone who knows what youre doing, if theres anyway to give Phage haste, they will respond in kind, or the table will focus you.
3. This deck does not survive being attacked repeatedly.
You must play politics or change up the deck list to be more survival.
4. Homeward Path. Nuff said.
I've played this deck for quite a bit and have since changed it up quite a few times and played against tons of different generals before so feel free to ask me questions.
I am considering writing a Primer for this deck soon...
As a long time player of multiplayer EDH (I ran so many casual fun EDH archetypes for multiplayer since the format was conceived) Primeval Titan had to be banned and it was not random.
The issue was being 2 lands ahead of the entire table and possibly 4 gave huge advantages to even the casual "fun" decks. Being able to hit 8 lands by turn 6 was perfect tempo and timing for a lot of the casual decks to start hitting their power combos and overall became a game of, who controls a primeval titan?
Most games that I've played you end up seeing all the steal creatures come out of everyones hands, the clones and the various ways to get a titan was all spent on this card, never had I seen so much for it. The issue was how it affected the politics at a table. MP EDH games are long, for the long run, for silly interactions where you could have 5 counter chains to try to resolve something like a reflect damage against a heartless. But if a titan hits the field, priorities end up shifting to that player no matter how far behind he is because now, he has a faithful way of playing 3 lands a turn if someone does not just immediately swords the damn thing.
ANYWAYS LONG DRIBBLE ASIDE....
I am making this animar deck sans imperial recruiter for the french tourny coming up at my store. Its a local thing to win a FTV-Lands which I would like to add to my collection so I am gonna pull out a ruthless deck that will probably get me scorned for since I play unusual fun decks like, Phage the Untouchable and Mistform "Mystique" Ultimus or Norin the Wary.
I keep testing this deck on tappedout and I cannot for the life of me realize the long game potential. You say you built resiliency into this deck because of wraths and stuff but I keep playing with the mindset if you dont get a turn 3 animar to stick, this deck pewters off and dies.
In my meta I am expecting only maybe 3-4 other competitive players that will give me a hard time. One player has a sick Karn deck and Geist LD + Wraths. Another Sissay and possibly a Rafiq. How are the matchups with Animar to these decks that when they hit 6-7 lands their board position will be impossible to deal with except for infinite ulamog?
When do you play cards like Glimpse? When you know you can play at least 2 creatures? Do you do turn 2 animar or survival? The mull decisions are difficult for me to extrapolate because I do not play competitive and I want to get into that mindset.
Overall Fantastic work so far on this deck. If I could borrow or loan an Imperial Recruiter I will probably try to run the decklist that is posted on the first post because the imperial is just insane.
Like I said in my post, I constantly play against a Grand Arbiter deck where he increases the cost of my spells by 1. I also said I would consider a thorn of amethyst, lodestone golem or a sphere of resistance also.
The Eye of Ugin is a love and hate relationship. It nearly always produces a mana because Urborg is often always out, regardless if I have it, or another black player has it.
It lets me repeatedly recast Ulamog for an uncounterable vindicate also if I have a lot of mana out which isnt hard to do with cabal coffers or because of multiplayer edh, i have 15 lands. With the amount of haste effects I have in my deck, its no big deal to go, end of someones turn right before mine, tutor for ulamog. My turn, cast ulamog, equip with haste, attack. Say go. End of someones turn, phyrexian tower my ulamog, tutor ulamog, repeat and rinse. And all of this is completely uncounterable save a voidslime.
Again my deck isnt optimized for cut throat. It does things fit for the players in my play group.
I have also in all the games I've played with Phage, never needed her to go to the graveyard. If you can cast her once from the general zone, that is often enough to cause you to win the game, or lose it. Theres no playing around with her in the graveyard cuteness.
Simply Put, You want to cast phage and counter her and get her into the graveyard ASAP.
My deck wants to control the field until i can cast Phage safely from the command zone.
You already lose to phage coming into play from the command zone, Why double risk it to the point where you could simply lose the game to 1 counterspell? Why not ensure you have the control? From the games I play, graveyard hate is almost infinite. It is always available. Even if you get Phage into the graveyard early, you dick around hoping she doesnt get exiled. Now you have to cover another zone for her.
Going through the list now, I realize I could make it much more flavourful with some card edits. However I haven't touched this list in about 5 months (Haven't touched magic in about that long).
Funny stuff that usually happens, Boseiju + Temporal Extortion has lead to some people paying half their life for nothing. This happens in my playgroup a lot because theres a Grand Arbiter Augustin IV player. I should probably pop in a Thorn of Amethyst myself into this deck because I want this deck to be black control.
The reason for it is because I have been doing a mono colored deck that is the opposite of the common use for that color. Example, Blue is known for Control, I since then made a very aggro Mistform Ultimus Deck, and my Monored Fumiko the Lowblood is control.
I now run a Deathgrip in every one of my decks that have black in it. I do this because, I have 12 Beta edition Deathgrips and getting to say, I destroy that green spell as it is being cast. Is too hilarious. (But really its because I cant let other decks outramp me. Green is too popular and way too fast for this deck, countering, Riku, Omnath, Uriel (literally 0 answers except keep them off mana until you can have stromgald cabal or deathgrip to prevent Uriel hitting the field), Kodama Reaches, Cultivates, Green Sun's is absolutely incredible at keeping up with your opponent.)
I wrote my response in parts actually so it doesnt feel cohesive as a full and I agree with that, I apologize for the rudeness, that was uncalled for.
My biggest complaint with the ramp comes from my experiences playing Maelstrom wanderer and 2 original voltron decks, Sigg River Guide and Isamaru. I currently pilot a Sigarada enchantress deck.
My Maelstrom Wanderer deck I have often experienced consistency issues in the late game. Early game is fine, getting wanderer out turn 4 or 5 is consistent but due to the amount of ramp I run to get that consistency, often times or not I do not hit good cascade. Arguements aside any bit of ramp casted for free is advantage but I end up digging and top decking and durdling a lot until I hit one card that explodes my board or I get maelstrom killed and play him again. I see this issue with Daxos in your list in the alternative. Unlike Maelstrom wanderer having all that mana ramp does not ensure Daxos will get to do what he does consistently, which is hitting opponents value cards to cast. If he dies for the 2nd time, I think its going to be a rough time because you would have played the ramp in your hand and Daxos is 50/50. I see the same ratios with Maelstrom wanderer and I am running more cards that make wanderer a danger than a single eldrazi conscription.
The other half is the voltron. Sigg river guide for me was amazing because he came built in protection. I could stick cheap things on him like Grafted Wargear and really beat house. That deck had less than 11 creatures. In Isamaru, I ran a mother of runes also but I often found it unremarkable due to the gravepact effects, black suns zenith, mass removal in white, a huge amount of creatures from Green and just bounces on my gear from blue. I could not reliably give Isamaru's voltron cards the protection it needed and certainty mother of runes does not protect Daxos from a Tower of the Magistrate.
Im trying to think of consistent competitive cards that I keep running into and I played a lot french EDH as well so I am not thinking in terms of your meta and maybe that is the problem. My play group can easily allow an armageddon through and even if I have a flagstones (my Eight and a Half Tails permission deck), they would recover just fine.
Back in Maelstrom wanderer if I ramped really fast, I got hammered down by 3 players until they felt I was crippled. I dont see Daxos recovering from a crippled position as well as Maelstrom wanderer and that is why I dont feel ramp is helpful in his board. He should have some since he needs to play more cards per turn than an average UW deck but he should be focused on protecting his board and preventing the crippling ever happens. That is just my opinion on why there is too much ramp in this deck. Consider cheaper ramp in lieu of cards like Gilded Lotus, or Caged Sun that could also maybe draw you advantage. I have seen Druidic Satchel do amazing things. Coldsteel Heart and Land Tax and if you can do the whole snow lands with scrying sheets thing it gives you a lot more digging power. I think to add the amazingness you are seeking for in this list you need passive advantages built into your card choices that would let you manipulate your draws much better. When you want ramp, you have just the right amount and when you want cards to counter, you will have enough. Right now I feel like you will end up with bad amounts of one or the other and end up playing a Johnny mindset.
I can see your argument for Armageddon or Cataclysm, its powerful if you can wipe lands with Daxos out, have a flagstone and proceed to crawl your way back with hitting value off the top of your opponents. But I feel with the list you gave, this isnt an optimized strategy in the list you presented. You could include more permission (which you said you will) and I would add things that would let you tutor for Armageddon. Consider playing Restore Balance for more control and cards like Knowledge Exploitation, Muddle the Mixture, Mystical Tutor, and Personal Tutor to consistently lock the board out when you have Daxos with 1 or 2 pieces of evasion.
Reserving this Slot.
Gameplay
The first few turns you are looking to setup any sort of engine. Phyrexian Tower with a Reassembling Skeleton, Gravecrawler, or Bloodghast can be a good way to put some pressure on early. You are looking for ways to hold cards because unless you have an arena out or some form of mana engine going, it is difficult to hold out early aggressors without going into top deck mode. Save your removal for things that can only threaten you. They can be limited sometimes depending on your deck package so stick to removing combo pieces that could make the board completely unstable for you.
A Primer in touching people in the wrongest way possible.
Introduction
So you wanna touch people eh? Phage the Untouchable is a hilarious yet powerful EDH multiplayer general. I have to warn you about a few things before we begin this insanity.
- Yes the goal is to touch people with Phage.
- Yes you lose the game if Phage is played out of the Command Zone.
- Yes this deck has a gimmick that people can see from miles away.
I am also the very political type player. My play style involves bartering, putting people into very awkward positions and making them make terrible decisions about the board state. This is often why the cards I picked for my decklist is the way it is. My decklist isnt optimized for best in slot but this Primer will dive into the many facets of playing Phage the untouchable.
Why Play Phage?
Phage has incredible power. Once the gimmick is out after the first two or three times you play with this deck in your play group, you will find the games change entirely and require you to play with more finesse and deliberation. Phage is incredibly fun and interesting and because of the cost to her abilities to touch people, the rewards are so much more satisfying. Often times or not I have games where people completely forget they are exposed to her.
Reasons to Play
- Touching People turns them into soot
- Seeing the fear in your opponents eyes knowing they could be touched at any time
- You like a complicated board position
- You believe Magic is a puzzle game where you need to figure out the pieces in order to win with a very unique condition.
- You always have a graceful way of removing yourself from the game.
Reasons NOT to Play
- You have to somewhat understand your meta in and out
- You have to be charming and play politics. People wont just let you touch them!
- Your board positions are alluring and obviously inviting and because of it Phage's plans to touch people are always exposed.
- You always have a crux that could remove yourself from the game very easily.
How the hell do I Summon her Majesty and use her Effectively??
There are multiple ways to get Phage into the field safely. Some are more involved than others but often there are only a few situations where Phage needs to be cast.
1 - You immediately want to touch someone as soon as possible. Maybe you're lonely or someone really is asking for the caress, but if a player is threatening the game with a combo, often times a hasted Phage can find her way in unexpectedly. Warning, this is extremely dangerous and often causes you to tap out. Be prepared for the Table to respond in kind when a player is removed from the game like this.
2 - You want to threaten the board. This is probably why I dont have as many evasion/haste effects as I should. Often times I find having Phage on the field causes players to do quite the irrational plays such as try to gain control of her, or play vows on her that make her trample, or stronger. It changes the way they tutor for cards and play creatures. This is where politics comes into play and requires a good understanding of your meta.
This is black control remember. The toolkit here is to slowly take away advantages where at the point where Phage is threatening to touch someone, that player lacks just the right amount of resources to stop it.
Tools of the Trade:
Sundial of the Infinite
The most powerful cards that work best with her is Torpor Orb and Sundial of the Infinite. I rarely attempt to cast Phage without at least 2 guarantees if I am unsure about my opponent's hands. If something should happen to your Torpor Orb while Phage is on the stack, Sundial of the Infinite can remedy the issue at a cost but at least you wont lose the game instantly. Often times Sundial of the Infinite also causes the person sitting next to you be completely unable to do end of turn effects. This is because as you are ending your turn, and he responds by trying to do things, you can activate the Sundial after his spells/abilities are on the stack and have them exiled as well.
Endless Whispers
Let's you kill an opponent by sacrificing Phage and giving it to an opponent. Since it comes into play from the Graveyard, Phage triggers the instant death for that player. They lose the game and can't give it back so Phage is exiled to your command zone. Let alone sacrificing, the opponent HAS to block Phage. So you can use her deathtouch to an advantage and kill something huge and important while then giving it away to another player. It is multiplayer politics at it's finest.
Also you could combo with Abyssal Persecutor and give him away to allow you to play Phage safely as well.
Other cards that end up with hilarious interactions could be Eater of Days, Phyrexian Dreadnought, and Leveler
Beware! Players can Sacirifice her in response to the lose trigger if you give Phage to them. They could then give it to someone else even you if you do not have your defenses up!
Torpor Orb
This card is an absolute menace in EDH. It stops ETB effects and it even stops creature abilities that trigger when other creatures enter the battlefield. This is often the key piece of the puzzle I get in every game.
Swiftfoot Boots, Lightning Greaves
Costly shoes for the girl but gets the job done.
Hall of the Bandit Lord
This land gets people unexpectedly and often times people FORGET this card is on my board. "How did Phage get haste?" get's asked a lot.
Beacon of Unrest
Incredible utility here. Gets you back important artifacts or let's you reanimate a creature from opponent's deck and is recursive. I have often time's combo'd this with Liliana Vess but I have since replaced her with a Diabolic Tutor.
Platinum Angel
You dont lose the game. Make her indestructible and give her a pair of greaves and you are set.
Call to the Netherworld
Chances are after you cast Phage once, you are leaving her in your graveyard. She becomes way too expensive at 9 mana and you are probably out of tricks to get her back into the field other than from your hand.
Volrath's Stronghold/Unholy Grotto and Withering Boon can be an easy consistent way of getting Phage back into your hand.
Thrull Wizard
A Slightly meta card, but often you will be countering Phage yourself to put her into the graveyard and finding ways to put her into your hand afterwards with cards like Disturbed Burial, Lord of the Undead,or Phyrexian Reclamation. Phage is quite content and safe in the graveyard this way.
Whispersilk Cloak, Rogue's Passage
Unblockable is pretty unfair.
Getting There and Protecting your Assets:
Tutors and Card Draw
Phyrexian Arena, Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are absolute musts for this deck. You can run out of cards very easily and often times or not your board position just isnt ready without another piece of the puzzle to really lock it in.
Phyrexian Obliterator + Arena
One of my favorite end of turn control mechanisms. Removes creatures and opponents have to sac permanents.
Blood Speaker
This card is incredibly useful in monoblack. There is a sizable amount of demon cards that cause Blood Speaker to give a good slow advantage overtime that is hard to disrupt and generally not worth the effort. This is perfect for Phage because we are not about giant shows of force. Runescarred Demon, Bloodgift Demon, Abyssal Persecutor, Carnifax Demon, Demonic Hordes, Dread Cocademon, Harvester of Souls, Kagemaro, First to Suffer, Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis, Seizan, Perverter of Truth are all amazing utility granting demons. Add the ones you want to fill in the roles your deck needs.
Read the Bones, Druidic Satchel, Snowlands + Scrying Sheets
Deck manipulation is needed. You want lands when you need them, removal when you need them and creatures when you need them. Druidic Satchel with Scrying sheets is absolutely an amazing tempo combination. I have seen players get so far ahead with a turn 4 druidic satchel just blindly doing it every turn in multiplayer.
Nether Void
Insane black enchantment and perfect for control. Get out a good engine for something (Defense, mana engine or durdling draw engine) and use Nethervoid to counter Phage to stick her in the graveyard. All the while it is slowing down your opponents considerably.
No Mercy and Lethal Vapors
Phage is slow. It has a hard time with swarm decks or ramp decks. Monoblack control is about slowing down the early game, locking out players resources mid game and then killing them as chances arise. These cards let you stay in the game and play politics.
Phylactery Lich
Protects those all important artifacts
Massacre Wurm
Answer to token decks. Phage has an incredibly difficult time handling a lot of creatures attacking her. This could potentially kill players if they are not careful. Also consider Netherborn Phalanx as another version of this. It also has transmute should you need to tutor for 6 like a Wurmcoil Engine if you're low on health.
Contamination
A very hateful card but if played at the right time, could keep people out of the game for a while for you to setup. Be ready to kill people before this leaves play.
Call to the Grave
Call to the Grave is an expensive enchantment but is just enough power to not be instantly hated out but can be enough to keep you in the game. Phage is a zombie so even just threatening the board with her in play can often do enough damage to the political scene that causes players to be on tilt. Plus you are sporting a good zombie package so having this lets you keep a field advantage with creatures.
Guardian Beast
An expensive $ card, but artifact protection is very useful. You can use Darksteel Forge instead but it much more mana costly.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Protects your removal spells. Consider Cavern of Souls as well.
Polluted Bonds
I run this card because punishing ramp is very important in Monoblack control. You do not have a way to catch up quickly so the best alternative is to make them pay for it in life difference. This way maybe you could ping them to death or put them in kill range for another player. Monoblack has no need for fetches but the 3 color decks live almost exclusively bolting themselves with a Fetch land + Pain land. Adding more damage ontop of their fetches can slow them down or cause them to bleed very well at a price to get rid of this card.
Meta Cards (Still Heavily Advised):
Deathgrip
Nothing like DESTROYING pesky green spells as they are being cast. Green Ramp is incredibly dangerous because they will outaggro you or cast a tooth and nail and you end up just plain out of the game. Plus this answers incredibly difficult to play against Generals like Maelstrom Wanderer, Uril the Miststalker, and Green Token decks like Rhys the Redeemed or Omnath.
Strength of Lunacy
Helpful against pesky white spot removal.
Stromgald Cabal
White has really good removal. I mean REALLY GOOD REMOVAL. Plus did I mention I really hate Uril?
Homeward Path
I have been touched by my own Phage about 3 times. It did not feel good.
Mana Engine:
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth + Cabal Coffers + Deserted Temple
The Mana combo that should be in all black decks. This makes a lot of mana but will be hated out quite fast. Consider cards like Petrified Field and Crucible of Worlds.
Thespian Stage
Very important land. With the new Legendary Rules this Thesbian stage has saved me an Urborg several times. I found people would rather strip the Urborg as opposed to the Coffers if I have this card out simply because having 2 Coffers with no Urborg is not as good as having 1 Coffers and an Urborg. If they target your Urborg you can have Thesbian Stage become a copy of it in response and with the new Legend Rules choose to get rid of the original that they targeted.
Liliana of the Dark Realms
Often players overlook this card or they focus it seemingly mindlessly and devote too much to getting it off the field. Either way it helps you fix mana a little bit and can remove pesky indestructible creatures if need be. At 4 mana it is a manageable ramp card to fill a slot.
Nirkana Revenant
Very good creature to keep alive on your board, can accelerate you very nicely. This card will draw you incredible hate the moment you drop it since you can take advantage of it's mana powers immediately.
Magus of the Coffers
Cabal Coffers #2 on a pair of legs. More likely to die but can be grabbed in pinch if you choose to go the Exsanguinate, Consume Spirit, Rise of the Dark Realms alternate win condition.
Black Market
This card can be combo'ed with Phyrexian Tower For mana or something like Miren, the Moaning Well or High Market for life gain instead, + Bloodghast, or Reassembling Skeleton to generate a lot of counters.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Devotion, Devotion to the true god
Basalt Monolith + Rings of Brighthearth
Tutorable combo for infinite colorless mana. This an important engine if you need to win with Geth, Exsanguinate or something like that.
Removal:
There are a lot of options for removal in Black but many of these are mandatory due to the general slowness of your deck at the start of the game.
Black Sun's Zenith, Sever the Bloodlines, Bane of the Living
These cards are insane value for Phage because she usually does not have a lot of creatures in play and even if she does, they are the fodder kind like Bloodghast or Reassembling Skeleton. It handles two things Phage has a difficult time dealing with, tokens and indestructible creatures. Phage is slow, she is intended to strip away resources until she can safely arrive on the battlefield and do her job. Consider also Mutilate and Cannibalize if more exile is needed.
Night of Soul's Betrayal and Ascendant Evincar
These two cards out together is incredibly brutal for your opponents. Sometimes you can single out another player also with a Curse of Death's Hold also to give a player -3/-3 if they aren't playing black. This could hold back a player for a few turns while they dig for removal instead of putting up their token/creature board and this is often where I find the chance to get a hasty Phage in.
Dark Imposter
This card is an absolute house in monoblack. If you can consistently maintain a good mana engine going, this card can pick apart board positions incredibly easily while protecting itself if it hits a nice creature.
Barter in Blood, Diabolic Edict, Gravepact
Good removal is good removal.
Syphon Flesh
One of my favorite removal tools in black. This has the added effect of giving us bodies to mess around with. Additional Gravepact triggers, Extra mana to Phyrexia tower, blockers. This card is extremely powerful in multiplayer. Also Uril sucks.
Cards to Consider:
Vorrac Battlehorns
Trample and a nice combat feature. Very useful if you can get Phage in with the combat trick.
Leshrac's Rite
Urborg is almost always out in my Meta. Swamps are probably the most prolific land type due to Urborg, second is Islands.
Although Filth is probably a much better replacement.
Lich's Mirror
This card is more of an "Oops, **** really hit the fan" card. I am also not really sure what happens if you died instead by 21 points of General Damage, but I imagine Lich's Mirror does not protect against that. This is probably the last option of getting Phage into your deck so you can tutor her up and play her properly.
Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage or Hex Parasite
Easy to implement combo. I like Hex Parasite better because the utility to instant kill planeswalkers is better than the one time use Hexmage. But it depends on your meta and plus Hex Parasite can get good beats in early.
Choosing the Queen's Legion
So those cards listed above are the key parts of the Phage deck. The skeleton to the zombie we are constructing. The next part is figuring out what kind of deck you need in your meta. There are multiple variants you can run in mono-black EDH that Phage naturally builds into. Alternative win conditions easily can include a life-gain package and run Sanguine Bond and Exquisite Blood, or any other classic Black "I Have a ton of Mana and I will put it all into this one card" combos such as Boseiju and Exsanguinate.
Re-Animator
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Reanimate
1 Entomb
1 Animate Dead
1 Geth Lord of the Vault
1 Sheoldred Whispering One
1 Profane Command
1 Buried Alive
1 Exhume
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Corpse Dance
1 Grave Titan
1 Rise from the Grave
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Nezumi Graverobber
Commentary: Re-Animator package is extremely versatile. It opens up your graveyard and opponents graveyards to muddle around with and lets you play safely knowing your cards continue to recycle for value. Cards like Geth and Corpse dance let you continue applying pressure if you have a decent mana engine out while Grave Titan keeps you alive with infinite chump blockers and if you continue to bring him back with oversold cemetery or corpse dance, your opponents have a hard time keeping up. There is no inherent mill in this deck so early on you might not want to keep the reanimate effects in your hand, instead look for value cards like Moonlight Bargain and removal or recurring creatures from the core cards to setup an engine. Inherently there is no benefit to playing Phage with this package. Infact it is probably better to play this with a general like Balthor in all honesty.
Zombie Master
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Lord of the Undead
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Zombie Trailblazer
1 Undead Warchief
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Conspiracy
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Cemetary Reaper
1 Gravecrawler
1 Soulless one
1 Ghoul Caller's Chant
1 Rotlung Reanimator
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Nantuko Husk
Commentary: This is package I run with Phage because I feel its flavorful enough to match her, and it is incredibly fair. There are combos here but they require usually >2 cards and theyre not the kind that as soon as you draw the right card you win. This package involves building resources and advantages over time, protecting them and then going in with the kill. There is a built in infinite mana combo with Rotlung Reanimator + Conspiracy (Naming Clerics) + Altar + Any Creature. There are a few options to play Conspiracy in this deck, 1 naming Clerics for the Mana Combo or for the Nantuko Husk + Rotlung combo and given the many ways to make Phage unblockable/haste you could give it to the Nantuko for instant kills. Plus the Nantuko is a sac outlet. Or naming Zombies to open up the rest of the core cards to the Zombie package (Conspiracy + Call to the Grave, or Patriarch's bidding for ultimate value) , or naming demons and abusing the hell out of Blood Speaker.
Tutor Combo
1 Necropotence
1 Bitterblossom
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Diabolic Revelation
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Commentary: This is the combo player's package. Draw cards, get infinite mana, kill people. Early game you tutor for pieces or draw cards for gain. Get a mana engine going then go for the late game spells like Diabolic Revelation or triple tutor increasing ambition and just kill people with anything you want. The card draw should keep you going but consider cards like Bloodgift Demon, Ambition's Cost and Runescarred Demon to stay alive early after your removal is about used up.
Voltron
COMING SOOOOOOONNN!!!
1 Bladed Pinions
FAQ
Q. How come Endless Whispers does not return Phage to my graveyard after that player loses?
A. 800.4a. When a player leaves the game, all objects (see rule 109) owned by that player leave the game, all spells and abilities controlled by that player on the stack cease to exist, and any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end. Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled. This is not a state-based action. It happens as soon as the player leaves the game. If the player who left the game had priority at the time he or she left, priority passes to the next player in turn order who's still in the game.
Because there is no effect that gave control of Phage to that player (It came under his control from the graveyard, you merely own it) no effects are ended to return control of Phage back to you so it then becomes exiled. You have the choice of putting her back into the Command Zone.
Your sovereigns of lost alara targets a grand total of 6 targets. Really only eldrazi conscription because lets face it there isnt any other better target for 6 mana devoted to sovereign.
You have mother of runes and the blue god for a deck with 11 creatures. The ability is wasted. Youre better off replacing these with creatures that are lower cost that would give you better cohesiveness with the other cards you've put out. (Also would battle mastery trigger his ability twice?)
Do you want to protect Daxos and make him the win? Or do you want your deck to constantly be able to do what it needs to do because right now it looks torn between those two ideas and trust me, it isnt going to work trying to do both.
The weird part to me is you have a ton of ramp but obviously bent on playing your general turn 3.
Turn 3 you play your general. You swing, do you cast their card if its valuable? What if its just more ramp. Do you hold yours back for next turn? It seems slightly weird to accelerate this way considering how low cost the rest of your deck is. I estimate Daxos wont hit useful things 50% of the time and even then often times you probably dont want to invest the mana into those cards because it wont help with your board position since oyu just want to ramp into time stretch (Better off playing Augustra IV instead).
Armageddon seems really awkward too unless you have like a whispersilk cloak (which is also awkward since you could put a card like Unquestioned Authority which is much cheaper and since you have only 11 creatures, you wont lose the ability to target your own general) on Daxos since often 1 mana costing removal will get rid of your general. You'd be resetting games with this card more often then ending them I feel like. I dont see the point of Angelic Destiny, youre better off with a lower costing enchantment like Spirit Mantle. At least then you can make sure of your minamo at waters edge each turn to untap Daxos and use him as a pro creature blocker. Because without those cards I dont see the point of Minamo at all.
If you focus your general, you can put creatures like Silent Arbiter. You said you wanted this to be control, it looks to me right now like a really weird ramp which isnt control at all considering you lack a lot of permission. This is in the multiplayer section too so I assume a game of 4 people, hitting one person with Daxos is not enough control to swing the board politically.
I dont see how you plan on playing forbid more than once. With that much ramp you wont have cards unless you hit a sphinx or blue sun. But since you lack the permission often you wont get to play those cards without going punished. Same goes for Force of Will, I dont see how you can afford to give away any card advantage consider your deck is majority artifact (18) and lands (36). Also you have like a total of 20 some blue cards. 5 of which are counters, a few more are removal. I dont think you'd ever want to pitch those, nor jace or tezz since they are absolutely too important to your deck to toss to force of will. I think just replacing it with counterspell or hell even cancel would be better. Try things like Memory Lapse, Lapse of Certainty to manipulate your opponents top card.
I also dont see the point of greaves. Giving your own general shroud seems awful here. Even if you play it turn 2 to just get a turn 3 daxos swing in, your general is dead in the water cuz he is stuck as a 2/2. Seems only viable for late game and even then you dont have creatures that would benefit from having haste. Consider the Hexproof greaves instead. And why even bother with haste? You rarely will be able to play the card you exile on turn 4 especially considering youd rather play like another sword or protection for Daxos.
Again it just bothers me that you wanna play cards like Cataclysm but then you end up in a position thats really awkward where you have your general, an enchantment on him, an equipment i suppose and 1 land. You remove the ability to play cards from your opponents by doing this, thus gaining no further value from Daxos in that regard, if you intend to kill them with this card, those equips better be good and have survived a turn because in my play group swords are destroyed almost instantly. If you have greaves on him its even more awkward. After that, you have incredibly high chances to draw only mana ramp which wont be able to be played until you have at least 2 lands. Why put yourself in that position ever? You end up negating a lot of your own cards with Shroud on him and since you have 11 creatures in your entire deck, I dont see you being able to reliable want to target Daxos when you want to. Eslepth is dead since jumping anything else in your deck doesnt do anything.
Why flagstones with 6 plains? You have 4 fetches already. It just doesnt seem optimal with the mana symbols you have. it seems youre always going to be hurting for white mana over blue since you dont have a lot of permission. I continue to feel all this ramp is unnecessary because you dont have anything to use all that mana on without counting on Daxos hitting something relevant. You tezz for more ramp but at the end of day you just end up BSZ or Sphinxing yourself for more ramp hoping to hit an Eldrazi Conscription? Seems bad with only 4 counterspells. You have scenarios where you have to be already winning to continue to win harder. You also just flat out lose to cards like fracturing gust, akromas vengeance, austere command, any wrath. Cuz as soon as Daxos leaves play you have nothing to do but to play catch up with paying 2 more to play him and hoping to ramp harder than your opponent to get him a few equips/enchants which if youre ramping against a maelstrom wanderer deck or asuza, youre already just out of the game because the other cards in your deck doesnt do anything.
Isochron scepter seems almost auto include because the card is a house even without un cards.
@Winterlude and I agree, It is why I am never playing Frankie Peanuts because rules discussions leads to unfun because people are arguing over trivial things. Cheaty Face however I think is easy to set rules for because I think its if you dont catch the guy in act of putting it into play, then you missed the trigger.
I have to sit down with the cards sometime this weekend and really look through them with the cards I do have available and see what comes out archetype wise but rather than asking for combos I guess I should ask, What would be good drafting archetypes?
U/W Skies? Black Discard, Blue Combo? these kinds of questions I will have to answer sometime soon before constructing the actual cards.
You have Dice Rolling from Unglued (Chickens and Goblin Bowling Team)
Coin Flipping from Unhinged (Chance encounter + Krark's thumb) maybe?
Some good blue fliers but generally the blue evasion creatures are lacking (might build this archetype up)
White Weenies
Green Beat Down seems ok
Black is very weak in the Un sets in my opinion.
Maybe making Pauper things possible?
I totally hear what you mean about drafting UNsets only. Maybe with multiples of certain cards the format looks more lively?
I am resurrecting a previously poorly executed cube idea.
I made an unglued unhinged cube a few years back (Full foil set of unhinged minus the super unfun cards like Gleemax or Mox Lotus).
The cube had a bunch of other playables often seen in various formats for fluff and needless to say, after the initial fun and novelty of the cube wore off after the first play through, the cube turned out to actually be frustrating and illconcieved.
That being said! I want to ressurect it and do it justice this time. I am a huge sucker for interaction and some of unhinged cards provide the most interesting interactions ever, let alone the card interactions, the player interactions are incredibly fun also!
But I want it to be fun and competitive, combos that work with unhinged cards, an environment where veteran players would know to bring commons so they can draft Collector Protector or bring their own boosters from some crazy set for Booster Tutor.
But I also want to know about playables that would mesh well with the unglued and unhinged cards themselves and my knowledge of magic cards only span from 4th edition to Ice age and Zendikar onwards + Mercadian Masks and EDH Staples. I come to you to ask about anything you guys would enjoy playing in a cube and how they might work with these off beat cards.
Any Help, Advice, Warnings, Recommendations?
1. Having 1 piece of protection is not enough.
You need both torpor orb + sundial for instances. This could be because of the format I play in, but generally once people see one of these obvious methods to get phage into play, they will save up bounce/destroy effects to try to get you to kill yourself.
2. Be wary of tutoring for these pieces quickly.
Against someone who hasnt seen your deck before, you just tutored for 2 things and will probably combo out.
Against someone who knows what youre doing, if theres anyway to give Phage haste, they will respond in kind, or the table will focus you.
3. This deck does not survive being attacked repeatedly.
You must play politics or change up the deck list to be more survival.
4. Homeward Path. Nuff said.
I've played this deck for quite a bit and have since changed it up quite a few times and played against tons of different generals before so feel free to ask me questions.
I am considering writing a Primer for this deck soon...
Here is what I know of my format so far from the top favored players.
Iname Death Aspect
Giest
Lyzolda
Giest is voltron with LD and 16 counterspells and running misdirection with 2 peek effects.
Lyzolda is standard lyzolda dark tutelage goblin guide, fast fast fast duress into hymn of tourach, could be painful to be on the draw against.
Iname is ramp defend into iname combos seems pretty standard, a lot of anti-counters mainboarded.
What should I construct for a mainboard?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/animar-22-09-12-2/
this is currently what I am running... I dont know about scarecrone, might take out orcish lumberjack for imposter faere when i get my hands on her.
any blanket advice? Im thinking I should play test against these guys quite a bit in the up coming week before the tourny
I dont know if I can get my hands on a slyvan tutor or a glimpse of nature so I might need alternatives to those two.
The issue was being 2 lands ahead of the entire table and possibly 4 gave huge advantages to even the casual "fun" decks. Being able to hit 8 lands by turn 6 was perfect tempo and timing for a lot of the casual decks to start hitting their power combos and overall became a game of, who controls a primeval titan?
Most games that I've played you end up seeing all the steal creatures come out of everyones hands, the clones and the various ways to get a titan was all spent on this card, never had I seen so much for it. The issue was how it affected the politics at a table. MP EDH games are long, for the long run, for silly interactions where you could have 5 counter chains to try to resolve something like a reflect damage against a heartless. But if a titan hits the field, priorities end up shifting to that player no matter how far behind he is because now, he has a faithful way of playing 3 lands a turn if someone does not just immediately swords the damn thing.
ANYWAYS LONG DRIBBLE ASIDE....
I am making this animar deck sans imperial recruiter for the french tourny coming up at my store. Its a local thing to win a FTV-Lands which I would like to add to my collection so I am gonna pull out a ruthless deck that will probably get me scorned for since I play unusual fun decks like, Phage the Untouchable and Mistform "Mystique" Ultimus or Norin the Wary.
I keep testing this deck on tappedout and I cannot for the life of me realize the long game potential. You say you built resiliency into this deck because of wraths and stuff but I keep playing with the mindset if you dont get a turn 3 animar to stick, this deck pewters off and dies.
In my meta I am expecting only maybe 3-4 other competitive players that will give me a hard time. One player has a sick Karn deck and Geist LD + Wraths. Another Sissay and possibly a Rafiq. How are the matchups with Animar to these decks that when they hit 6-7 lands their board position will be impossible to deal with except for infinite ulamog?
When do you play cards like Glimpse? When you know you can play at least 2 creatures? Do you do turn 2 animar or survival? The mull decisions are difficult for me to extrapolate because I do not play competitive and I want to get into that mindset.
Overall Fantastic work so far on this deck. If I could borrow or loan an Imperial Recruiter I will probably try to run the decklist that is posted on the first post because the imperial is just insane.
The Eye of Ugin is a love and hate relationship. It nearly always produces a mana because Urborg is often always out, regardless if I have it, or another black player has it.
It lets me repeatedly recast Ulamog for an uncounterable vindicate also if I have a lot of mana out which isnt hard to do with cabal coffers or because of multiplayer edh, i have 15 lands. With the amount of haste effects I have in my deck, its no big deal to go, end of someones turn right before mine, tutor for ulamog. My turn, cast ulamog, equip with haste, attack. Say go. End of someones turn, phyrexian tower my ulamog, tutor ulamog, repeat and rinse. And all of this is completely uncounterable save a voidslime.
Again my deck isnt optimized for cut throat. It does things fit for the players in my play group.
I have also in all the games I've played with Phage, never needed her to go to the graveyard. If you can cast her once from the general zone, that is often enough to cause you to win the game, or lose it. Theres no playing around with her in the graveyard cuteness.
Simply Put, You want to cast phage and counter her and get her into the graveyard ASAP.
My deck wants to control the field until i can cast Phage safely from the command zone.
You already lose to phage coming into play from the command zone, Why double risk it to the point where you could simply lose the game to 1 counterspell? Why not ensure you have the control? From the games I play, graveyard hate is almost infinite. It is always available. Even if you get Phage into the graveyard early, you dick around hoping she doesnt get exiled. Now you have to cover another zone for her.
1 Phage, the Untouchable
The Queen's Domain
24 Swamp
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Strip Mine
1 Deserted Temple
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Boseiju, Who Shelter's All
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Homeward Path
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Leechridden Swamp
1 Dark Depths
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
The Queen's Minions
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Platinum Angel
1 Ulamog, The Infinite Gyre
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Bloodghast
1 Hex Parasite
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Stromgald Cabal
1 Korlash, Heir to Blackblade
1 Sheoldred, The Whispering One
1 Helm of Kaldra
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sol Ring
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sundial of the Infinite
1 Sensei's Divining Top
The Queen Demands
1 Exsanguinate
1 Deathgrip
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Bitterblossom
1 Profane Command
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Reanimate
1 Animate Dead
1 Withering Boon
1 Polluted Bonds
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 Call to the Grave
1 Barter in Blood
1 Mutilate
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Decree of Pain
1 Life's Finale
1 Innocent Blood
1 Sever the Bloodlines
1 Forced March
1 Damnation
1 Temporal Extortion
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Phrexian Arena
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Karn Liberated
1 Sorin Markov
Going through the list now, I realize I could make it much more flavourful with some card edits. However I haven't touched this list in about 5 months (Haven't touched magic in about that long).
Funny stuff that usually happens, Boseiju + Temporal Extortion has lead to some people paying half their life for nothing. This happens in my playgroup a lot because theres a Grand Arbiter Augustin IV player. I should probably pop in a Thorn of Amethyst myself into this deck because I want this deck to be black control.
The reason for it is because I have been doing a mono colored deck that is the opposite of the common use for that color. Example, Blue is known for Control, I since then made a very aggro Mistform Ultimus Deck, and my Monored Fumiko the Lowblood is control.
I now run a Deathgrip in every one of my decks that have black in it. I do this because, I have 12 Beta edition Deathgrips and getting to say, I destroy that green spell as it is being cast. Is too hilarious. (But really its because I cant let other decks outramp me. Green is too popular and way too fast for this deck, countering, Riku, Omnath, Uriel (literally 0 answers except keep them off mana until you can have stromgald cabal or deathgrip to prevent Uriel hitting the field), Kodama Reaches, Cultivates, Green Sun's is absolutely incredible at keeping up with your opponent.)