Exiling the creature and replacing it with a token takes any memory issues that permanently changing the creature into a 2/2 Pig and instantly does away with them, making for a cleaner and easier to play/understand card. This obstinate attitude that Blue should never be able to exile a creature is counter productive. Wizards designs cards to have the best execution, which also means they need to be easily conveyed and understood by inexperienced players.
This is the biggest stumbling block a lot of players with design critiques have. They are not able to remove their own egos and experience from the situation and approach the card how a new player would. If your first foray into Magic is Theros, this design is superior to any of the other suggested ones because there is no ambiguity, no space in time for either rules or flavour issues to confuse the new player That is superior to these little mechanical nitpicks, making it a better card.
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Planeswalker420 posted a message on [[THS]] Curse of the SwinePosted in: New Card Discussion -
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koeldflare posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
I've played against Living End a few times as the meta in my area has a couple of decks, and I've found that Rule of Law has been my best defense against it. It shuts off the primary mechanic (cascade) until they find an answer and remove the Rule. That's my 2 cents. -
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Names posted a message on [Primer] G/W Auras (Bogle)Against Tron, you've probably lost the game if they play a creature, unless that creature is Spellskite. Most Tron decks also lack targeted removal. Keeping this in mind, it is entirely possible to go big with a Kor Spiritdancer and kill them while drawing cards and playing your sweet, sweet disruption like Stony Silence and Suppression Field. Also, Suppression Field is amazing. Absolutely find room for it. Bear in mind with the Spiritdancer that you cannot cast it without putting an Aura on it the same turn lest you lose your guy to Pyroclasm. You might even want to add another Spiritdancer to your maindeck, that's how many I play and it seems to be the right amount.Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
Keen Sense is great against them (no blockers) and in general. Keen Sense lets you keep "ok" hands. Against Tron, you get to draw a card every turn. Try and keep it in.
I'm not a fan of the lifelink-type auras at all. I'd much rather have that card slot a. make Bogle hurt more b. keep Bogle alive more c. not be dead against a non-aggressive opponent. Outside of the red aggressive decks, you've probably got your opponent on a faster clock anyway.
My personal board plan against Tron is:
-4 Spirit Mantle
-1 Path To Exile
+3 Stony Silence
+2 Suppression Field
However, this board and deck are all pre-banning. I haven't taken the time to consider changing my board to reflect the Eggs banning, so it's subject to change.
You can find my deck/sideboard as it was when I last played it here. -
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Tonda posted a message on [[RTR]] All RTR art spoiled thus farPosted in: The Rumor Mill
A collection of all RTR art spoiled thus far
Card Art from PAX World Building Panel
Concept Art from PAX Worldbuilding Panel
RTR Packaging *UPDATED 9/4*
Card Art from Art-Fight
All Ten Guild Location Art from Art-Fight
Screencaps of unused ART from the Official Trailer
Official Art from the Mothership *Updated 9/4*
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fnord posted a message on [RRR] What would you first pick? (#1)Please ignore the financial value of the cards for the purposes of this discussion.Posted in: New Card Discussion
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fnord posted a message on [M13] What would you first pick? (#7)Please ignore the financial value of the cards for the purposes of this discussion.Posted in: New Card Discussion
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fnord posted a message on [M13] What would you first pick? (#5)Please ignore the financial value of the cards for the purposes of this discussion.Posted in: New Card Discussion
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fnord posted a message on [M13] What would you first pick? (#4)Please ignore the financial value of the cards for the purposes of this discussion.Posted in: New Card Discussion
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DestinyHero posted a message on [M13] DailyMTG Spoilers 06/14: Cathedral of War, Sands of DeliriumThe prospect of swinging in with a 3/3 or greater Geist of Saint Traft in Standard is making me smile.Posted in: The Rumor Mill - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Also known as that damn Bogle deck...
Introduction:
The Bogle deck is a non-interactive, explosive aggro deck that's based around playing a turn 1 hexproof creature (Slippery Bogle or Gladecover Scout) and suiting it up with cheap, effective enchantments. In a couple turns you'll be swinging for massive damage, most times it will be with First Strike and Trample or straight up unblockable. This allows for quick wins with turn 4 being the earliest. The deck is an all or nothing deck, meaning if your opponent manages to handle your sole threat the deck is often unable to stabilize and regain board position.
The benefits of the deck are: fast clock, non-interactive, fairly easy to pilot, hard to disrupt, and a VERY low curve. The pitfalls of the deck are: susceptible to narrow hate, hard time bouncing back, moderate consistency issues, and major lack of late game stamina. The deck can also be built on a moderate budget with only fetchlands and Daybreak Coronet consisting of the money cards.
Link to the old disscussion thread can be found here: Link
Deck Core:
The deck's core consists of 8 one mana hexproof creatures, 2 to 4 Kor Spiritdancer and 14-16 auras:
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Kor Spiritdancer
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Daybreak Coronet
2 Spirit Mantle
Kor Spiritdancer works great in the deck as a draw source and an occasional beatstick against decks that don't run Path to Exile. At worst she'll replace herself when you cast the follow up aura but more often than not she'll be a serious source of major card advantage!
Flex Slots:
With a package of 2 Spirit Mantle and 3 Kor Spiritdancer there is room for 15 more cards. The average Bogle deck runs 12 to 15 creatures, 22 to 25 auras, and up to 3 Path to Exile. Path to Exile clears blockers, removes threats to buy time, gives an out to maindeck Spellskite and gives us answers to creature based combo decks. The creature count varies by build as having only 8 one drops makes the deck highly inconsistent. So you'll have the following to work with to increase the threat density of the deck:
1 Silhana Ledgewalker
1 Noble Hierarch
Noble Hierarch gains consideration as she offers a boost to your attacking Bogle and can help you crank out more auras in fewer turns. She also gives the deck another 1 drop to work with and makes for fewer hands that need to be shipped away. She does have a downside however: she turns on your opponents targeted removal.
Spellskite main deck is a great solution if your meta is saturated with decks like Infect, Twin, and the mirror. In a pinch it can be suited up with auras as it's already out of bolt range, just make sure you're not playing into a Path to Exile.
Auras greatly outnumber creatures because the premise of the deck is to overload one Bogle to push damage through, so you generally only need one creature in your opener but need to draw auras to put on it. Here's a list of auras to fill up the remaining slots:
1 Keen Sense
1 Spider Umbra
1 Spirit Link
1 Unflinching Courage
Keen Sense is a great draw source for the deck and if you are thinking of not running the maximum number of Kor Spiritdancer two of these are almost a must. The only disadvantages to Keen Sense are they don't provide a power/toughness boost on their own and the card you draw comes after the attack step so you don't get to utilize any auras you may draw into until the following attack step.
Spirit Link is great to have if your Meta is heavy aggro and burn. The card works different than Lifelink since it uses the stack and must resolve. However, that's not really a downside as it stacks with lifelink to gain you even more life. You can even put it on one of your opponents creatures to essentially nullify it (just be careful to not take lethal as you'll still die before Spirit Link's trigger resolves!).
Unflinching Courage is a brutal aura that does everything a Bogle deck wants. By the time it comes down, the Bogle most likely has 3 to 4 auras on it so Unflinching Courage just adds even more raw power to the deck. I wouldn't recommend running more than 2 since the 3 CMC can be a burden, but there have been decks that run 3 successfully. So flavor to taste!
The Mana:
Essentially, Bogle is a 19 land deck. The 20th land used is a Dryad Arbor and is mainly in the deck for a sacrificial role in the event you have to work around an edict effect like Liliana of the Veil. Horizon Canopy is a great tool in the mana base, it offers turn 1 mana and can become a card if need be. The rest is pretty straight forward, but you want to make sure you can cast a Bogle on turn 1 and Daybreak Coronet on turn 3 with no hiccups. Include one basic Forest to fetch if there's a Blood Moon on the stack or in the event you can't afford to fetch for an untapped Temple Garden.
3-4 Temple Garden
3-4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
2-4 Additional Green Fetchlands (Wooded Foothills / Verdant Catacombs)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
0-1 Plains
Sideboard Choices:
Modern has a deep and diverse Metagame, but luckily Bogle has access to some broad answers and since most are enchantments, they wont devalue Ethereal Armor.
Leyline of Sanctity: Mainly answers IoK and Thoughtseize as turn 1 discard on the draw can be game over for Bogle. It's also a great answer to Burn as most, if not all, of their cards target you for damage. If you run these in your sideboard you have to run all 4 as having it in the opener is the easiest way for Bogle to cast it since 4 mana might as well be a million...
Suppression Field: A great answer to a lot of headaches. It pretty much stifles Celestial Colonnade, hurts 3 color decks when they need to use fetchlands, cripples Splinter Twin, and of course makes Spellskite a little less scary. Just remember that it effects your fetchlands and Horizon Canopy so crack them before slamming Field on the table.
Stony Silence: A great answer to Affinity and other artifact-centric decks.
Nature's Claim: Our sole out to Blood Moon as a resolved one cripples the deck. It's also a great answer to Spellskite and other problematic enchantments and artifacts.
Rest in Peace: Great against any deck that might have graveyard shenanigans such as Living End. Some side it in to neuter opposing Tarmogoyf but if your deck is built right, Goyf shouldn't be a threat anyway.
Pithing Needle: The classic sideboard answer. It's great for Skite, Lilly, and just about any other activated ability that can stop the Bogle or win your opponent the game.
Gaddock Teeg: There are a lot more 4 CMC spells in Modern than you think: Cryptic Command, Supreme Verdict, Scapeshift, Splinter Twin, every threat in Tron except Wurmcoil Engine... The Teeg stops 'em all and most of the decks side out targeted removal and you can back him up with an Umbra if need be.
Retether: A nice card to have if you expect the match to grind out. It's a shame they won't return Coronets to a naked Bogle though. Don't run too many though as the 4 CMC make it a pain to cast.
Fog: A great answer to Infect decks as they usually try to kill in one shot.
Other sideboard considerations:
Torpor Orb
Dismember
Relic of Progenitus
Grafdigger's Cage
Nevermore
Guttural Response
Spellskite
Surgical Extraction
Seal of Primordium and/or Deglamer to answer Chalice of the Void at 1
But wait!!! What about Blue?!?
The deck performs the exact same function but at a more consistent rate when it's only G/W. Mainly it's in the fact that the mana can produce turn 1 Green, turn two any combination of Green and White, and turn 3 double White. That allows the deck to get more explosive hands and curve out the nuts on a consistent basis. With blue in the deck, it makes it harder to resolve a Coronet if you are playing with Breeding Pools instead of Razorverge Thickets and harder to drop a turn one Bogle/Scout if you got a pair of Hallowed Fountains in your opener.
It's also been well proven that the deck can run off of 12-14 creatures and comparison between Silhana Ledgewalker and Invisible Stalker is close enough to discount any argument that Stalker should be included. Also, unblockablility can be obtained through Spirit Mantle and Trample is huge in the format considering the creatures with the fattest bottoms are Tarmogoyf and Restoration Angel.
Geist is a three drop and that immediately discounts any use since the average Bogle deck caps at 2 CMC on the curve. The Blue auras are overshadowed by current aura package and Curiosity is easily replaced by the shifted Keen Sense.
Decklists:
Here's the link to Reid Duke's Deck Tech from his 2nd place finish at Worlds 2013:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-xEoMEzkN4
His list:
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Kor Spiritdancer
Auras:
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Hyena Umbra
4 Spider Umbra
4 Keen Sense
3 Unflinching Courage
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Temple Garden
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Wooded Bastion
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Suppression Field
3 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Path to Exile
2 Dismember
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Below are example Decklists along with some lists that placed top 8 at recent PTQs.
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Kor Spiritdancer
2 Silhana Ledgewalker
Auras:
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Hyena Umbra
3 Spider Umbra
2 Keen Sense
3 Spirit Mantle
4 Daybreak Coronet
3 Path to Exile
Land:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Temple Garden
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Suppression Field
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Nature's Claim
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Kor Spiritdancer
3 Noble Hierarch
Auras:
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Hyena Umbra
3 Spider Umbra
4 Spirit Mantle
4 Daybreak Coronet
3 Path to Exile
Land:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Suppression Field
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Nature's Claim
2 Gaddock Teeg
4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Kor Spiritdancer
2 Silhana Ledgewalker
Auras:
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Hyena Umbra
4 Spider Umbra
1 Keen Sense
3 Spirit Mantle
4 Daybreak Coronet
3 Path to Exile
Land:
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Temple Garden
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Torpor Orb
1 Path to Exile
3 Stony Silence
3 Pithing Needle
3 Nature's Claim
2 Spirit Link
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Kor Spiritdancer
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Slippery Bogle
Auras:
4 Daybreak Coronet
1 Detainment Spell
4 Ethereal Armor
1 Hyena Umbra
4 Rancor
4 Spider Umbra
4 Spirit Mantle
3 Path to Exile
Land:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Horizon Canopy
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Nature's Claim
2 Spellskite
1 Spirit Loop
3 Stony Silence
2 Torpor Orb
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Kor Spiritdancer
4 Slippery Bogle
Auras:
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Ethereal Armor
2 Fists of Ironwood
3 Hyena Umbra
4 Rancor
4 Spider Umbra
4 Spirit Mantle
3 Path to Exile
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Horizon Canopy
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Nature's Claim
2 Nevermore
1 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
3 Spellskite
4 Gladecover Scout
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Slippery Bogle
Auras:
4 Daybreak Coronet
4 Ethereal Armor
2 Hyena Umbra
4 Keen Sense
4 Rancor
4 Spider Umbra
2 Spirit Mantle
1 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
Lands:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Horizon Canopy
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Spirit Link
2 Stony Silence
3 Suppression Field
Basic Play Concepts:
Before I move on to match ups, I'd like to cover some basic plays for anyone interested in playing the deck that never has. If you're familiar with the deck, no need to read the basics below.
The key to playing Bogle is knowing how to mull aggressively. You can not keep a hand filled with great auras and a couple lands in hopes of peeling a Bogle off the top... It just doesn't happen with only 10-14 creatures in the deck. Same goes for no landers, the odds to pull lands are a bit better but just don't count on the topdeck... Bogle is notorious for bad topdecks, it's just the nature of the deck. You want a hand with a turn 1 Bogle and a follow up enchantment turn 2. Mulls to 6 and 5 are common place and mulling to 4 still can win you the game. Try not to keep hands with Coronets and no other auras, if you have to it's OK, but again I stress that sometimes you won't peel that first aura til is a bit too late.
Once you get that Bogle to stick, just pile him up with all the enchantments you can. Very rarely will you have two creatures on the field with auras on each. After playing the deck a bit you'll get the feel for which auras you want to resolve first.
Bear in mind Daybreak Coronets restriction. If you have a Bogle with Coronet and one other aura and that aura gets destroyed, Coronet is going to the grave as well. It's not all downside with the restriction though. If you have an enchanted Bogle and your opponent has an unenchanted Spellskite out, you can still cast a Coronet safely without worrying about the Spellskite snagging it.
Bogle is one of the only decks that I'd advocate deck thinning. The math has shown deck thinning to have only a minor impact on drawing. However, with the decks curve topping out at 2, topdecking land when you already have 2 or 3 on the field is not good. Between the fetchlands and Horizon Canopy, you have access to some good thinning which will hopefully lead to drawing more auras off the top. So fetch as much as you can.
Sometimes it's better to resolve your auras after combat. This is especially true if you're facing Cryptic Command decks. You'll get them to tap and draw rather than counter and tap. There will be times when you won't want them to draw (they have sided in Supreme Verdict for example and are digging for it), in that case just throw out a lesser aura to bait the counter magic. Most blue decks will counter Ethereal Armor on the spot, so that's usually the best bait to get Coronet or Spirit Mantel on the Bogle.
A turn 2 Liliana of the Veil can be a scary occurrence. Just try to keep an uncracked fetch on the field if your opponent drops a turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. If Lily does come down, you'll at least be able to fetch for Dryad Arbor in response. Bear in mind that can only happen if you're on the play and most decks will hold off until they have enough mana to remove the Arbor with the ability on the stack. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do and they have you by the nuts.
Sideboarding is fairly easy with Bogle. Always expect your opponent to board in Spellskite as it fits easily into just about every sideboard out there. If you're not facing a deck with access to edict effects, you can side out Dryad Arbor to free up a slot. Don't worry, siding out Dryad Arbor has almost no effect on the mana base.
Match Up Analysis:
Under construction. I will have the Jund/Junk, U/W/r Control, Pod, and Scapeshift match ups done by 3/25/13. Currently looking for assistance with the Tron and Infect match ups. PM me if you have any insight to those particular match ups.
Change Log:
8/4/13: Added Reid Duke's Worlds 2013 list
8/11/13: Added reasoning for no Blue in the deck
5/14/15: Major Update
Previous Discussion:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=474493
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This is ignorant. Some of my most memorable and exciting games came from breaking up a combo. The rush of holding that piece of hate in your hand waiting for the right moment... Are they going to have the answer? Can they recover before I can win? Gotta play it at the right moment.... NOW!
It can be exciting to play against combo. And in casual it can be fun to see insane combos go off.
I think the 'bad wrap' comes from the lengthy 'combo turn'. Most players hate just sitting there while the combo does it's thing...
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4 Slippery Bogle
4 Gladecover Scout
3 Kor Spiritdancer
3 Noble Hierarch
Auras:
4 Rancor
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Hyena Umbra
3 Spider Umbra
4 Spirit Mantle
4 Daybreak Coronet
3 Path to Exile
Land:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Suppression Field
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Nature's Claim
2 Gaddock Teeg
I've played both the Noble and Nobleless decks and have to say that Nobles give the deck way more than any other creature or enchantment you can put in that slot. She makes the mana much more reliable, provides a pump to your Bogle, and gives you another Green one drop to work with. I've even stolen games by suiting one up against the right deck (such as Pod or anything non Red and White heavy).
Sideboard wise, Suppression Field at 3 is the correct call. I've sided them in all but one match up at the PTQ (vs. Scapeshift) and almost every match at the GPT. They help when you're not sure if Skite is coming in or not.
At the PTQ I lost to Melria Pod round 2 (mainly bad topdecks), U/R/w Splinter Twin in the 7th round (worst misplay of my career: scooping too early) and U/W control in the final round of swiss (t3 Geist with castle back up game 1 and 3). All loses were winnable matches so I believe that this deck does have a place in the Modern metagame.
I've also got the Mod 'go-a-head' to make a Primer for this deck. I should have it up by Friday based on my current work load. So if you have any match up analysis, any insight you might like to share, or if you want your list on the main post just shoot me a PM and I'll be sure to include it in the Primer. I used to be a featured writer for Blackborder.com and I'll make a real nice Primer for the deck
Thanks all, I look forward to improving this deck with you!