I've been tinkering with this deck ever since I ran into in on MTGO a couple months back, it can be a little slow at times but it has enough control elements to keep it going against most of the Aggresive archetypes thus far.
4x Last Gasp
4x Telling Time
4x Dimir Signet
4x Remand
4x Compulsive Research
4x Consult the Necrosages
2x Clutch of the Undercity
4x Ribbons of Night
2x Sins of the Past
4x Eye of the storm
4x Dimir Aquaduct
4x Watery Grave
6x Swamp
10x Island
Is Battle of Wits viable in extended? I've been playing around with my extended BoW, and it hasn't been doing all that bad. If it is viable, how would one build it. I have a build... but as I said... It isn't bad, but it isn't good.
I'd Probably be looking into adding the Other colors to some extent. The Extended Mana Base Can Support anything... Green/White Gives you Sterling Grove as an Enchantment Tutor and Red Brings Wild Research into the picture. plus Utility from the those colors.
the title of the thread is red aggro, no where does it say anything about sligh...
Actually they merged my recently created Sligh thread with this one so to some of us Sligh was the topic of conversation
Quote from IbeatTomGuevin »
see good players have this thing about running the most optimal cards they can in order to win the highest percentages of games. right now a deck with a sligh mana curve just isnt viable, play a good deck with good cards instead of trying to ressurect a dead archetype.
I hate to tell you man, even in it's earliest incarnations Sligh played cards thought to be "sub-optimal.” Simply because you play a pile of “good cards” does not mean your playing a good deck. Since when is a deck relying on Seething Song, and Chrome Mox to function is classified as good? Quit being an elitist {Explitive Deleted} and shut up.
Also, if me posting this and making a new thread has been a probem I'm sorry
Mods Merged the Last Good Thread for this With the U/g Control thread. While I realize they are trying to keep thinks neat and tidy around here they can be kinda stupid.
I did a TON of testing with U/g aggro-control, and in the end gave up It has huge problems with Tooth and Nail, and more recent testing showed a problem with the Blue-Tron Deck. Basically it has all the same weaknesses of a "Mono" Green Aggro decks plus the added problem of mana screw.
Quick List, Off the Top of my Head
4 Birds
4 Sac Tribe
4 Zealot
4 Witness
4 Troll
4 Magpie
4 Mana Leak
4 Hinder
4 Echoing Truth
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 City of Brass
1 Oboro (Legendary Island)
1 Minamo (Legendary Island)
1 Okina (Legendary Forest)
10 Forest
7 Island
All I can say is PRAY THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY THE MIRROR MATCH. God I have played a few and it is dreadful, there is like a 99.9% chance of drawing it.
Yeah, this deck seems to be the second coming of Wake. I tried Pentavus he seemed underpowered compared to the rest of the deck and had I Drawn the Trisk I had pulled to test him the game would have been over sooner.
Zo-Zu: I disagree. If you want to talk zo-zu, I'm willing, but I think it is overrated. I don't want to bore you with 3 paragraphs of why (I think) Zo-Zu is over rated, and so am letting it drop. Please let me know if you want me to rant about it.
Rant On.
Quote from fiverdown »
I'm trying the new Red Maro. In the 3+ Mana Slot. Should usually be 4/4 or larger. The dragon would be swell, but my guess is you are thinking about next weekend.
I tried him in an earlier build, he's down right horrible against the Aggro decks in the format.
Quote from fiverdown »
You could look into goblin conscripts a 2/2 for 1, with the viscous draw back (in a 28+ critter) deck of they can't attack unless you've played a critter.
He was in the spot Currently occupided by Godo's Irregulars and I was losing over extension to keep him swinging and top-decking him when my opponent stablized was poor.
Quote from sneakyhomunculus »
Threads Merged
I hate it when you people do this it makes both converastions harder to follow.
Silver Bullet? I’ll assume you mean 5cC and not a band led by Bob Seger
Quote from Erad »
That calls for a Flamebreak, I suppose.
Seems kinda counter-productive but may be one of the few solutions.
Quote from fiverdown »
"The following cards have been though about but not tested."
Frostling:: (& Shock) Stop a god draw vs Ponza of turn 1 slith turn 2 stone rain. Running both seems prudent at this time. Hearth Kami :: everyone is using some artifacts, Stalking Stones, O-stones, Aether Vials, Jitts etc. Not having main deck art removal main seems chancy.
I began testing a build with these two over the Akki Twins shortly after posting, the results aren’t in yet.
Quote from fiverdown »
Furnace Whelp: Tried it, turned out to be too slow in the deck. Skyfire Kirin: Will assume it will have the same problem as the Whelp. When you hit 4 lands the game had better be over. I was coming to the same conclusions. Rathi Dragon may be useful in 9th Edition builds though.
It’s really the only other 1 mana burn spell in the format that can hit creatures, Its not in the slots filled by Tactics because it can’t be thrown at people’s head to end the game.
Quote from fiverdown »
If you want to run Orkish artillery where are the Pulse of the Forge? Replace the Gurilla Tatics? I prefer the Vulshock Sorcrer, haste & sexier. But either works.
I’ve been fairly happy with Artillery mostly because it plus any burn spell can take down most of the played creatures in the format Granted Arc-Slogger and Iwamori of the Open Fist do require Volcanic Hammer to kill with one card. Pulse was quickly disregarded due to the fact it does not hit creatures, and thus far in testing even with repeated Orcish Artillery activations the Pulse’s “Buyback” would have been relevant 3 or 4 times at most.
Quote from fiverdown »
I've played Zo-Zu, in most matches he doesn't come down early enough to matter.
I tend to play him before Artillery when given the option I’ve been very happy with him over all.
Quote from fiverdown »
If Some prople like the Genju of the Spires, with the amount of Burn you are running I think he could work well.
Seems too slow for Sligh.
Quote from fiverdown »
BTW this should probably be over in mono red aggro.
Seemed different enough approach to Mono Red to warrant a new thread.
Quote from saltheart foamfollower »
those 4 godos regulars could be replaced by 4 swamps.
What the (Expletive Deleted) are you talking about?
Pyrite Spellbomb is the only thing that can save you from Auriok Champion/Worship without devoting slots to stupid stuff like Culling Scales or Granite Shard.
I'm not recalling any build of WW that I've seen anywhere that runs either of those cards, much less both.
Moxes alone arent enough to justify Shrapnel Blast, adding moxes to a deck that is already very fast and has a tendancy to run out of gas anyway seems like a poor choice.
I was getting fed up with the format, Tooth was the problem, as much as I hate to say it the deck that revolves around resolving a nine mana sorcery is in fact the best deck in the format. So recently, I set about finding something to beat it. I have yet to find a build of Ponza that I like. Aggressive green decks all seem well equipped to beat mono blue but wind up boarding in some where in the neighborhood of eight cards to beat tooth. I decided I was going to play something randomly horrible for Regionals… Goblins. Yes, those ugly little green red men so many adore. Not being a person who plays truly horrible decks often I decided to build it off The Sligh Mana Curve. Presented for those who aren’t historians of the game the Sligh Mana Curve…
Creatures:
One Drops: 10-13
Two Drops: 8-10
Three Drops: 4-6
Four Drops: 2-3
As such you are looking at least 24 to 32 Creatures with the remaining slots filled with support spells, mostly if not exclusively burn, note the curve assumes 22 Land. After a week or so of testing, during which time several goblins fell out of the original list to make way for better cards.
This build has tested well against both Tooth and Mono Blue. It has had fair showings against other Red Decks MGA has been something of a problem though in no small part to Troll Ascetic and Beacon of Creation
The following cards have been considered but not tested:
Alright, Alright, Alright I'll give! Since another segment of my play-test group posted it elsewhere. I will reveal my list; I had mentioned it in the other U/G Aggro post on these boards.
Here is a rundown of the sideboarding procedures of the decks I have tested against so far.
Sideboarding Procedure:
MUC: Nothing.
Tooth: ]-4 Humble Budoka
-4 Mana Leak
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-1 Echoing Truth
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+3 Bribery
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
WW: -4 Hinder
+4 Thunderstaff
MGA:
-4 Humble Budoka
-4 Hinder
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-2 Eternal Witness
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+4 Thunderstaff
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
5 Color Control:
-4 Humble Budoka
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-2 Echoing Truth
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
B/G Control:
-4 Viridian Zealot
-4 Mana Leak
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-1 Echoing Truth
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+3 Bribery
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
Notes on this build, MUC is a joke. I am talking 95 percent in favor of U/G. Tooth and Nail on the other hand is The worst match up I have found, note the sideboard helps immensely. You also may have noticed that the Rushwood Dryads come in from the board a lot. In fact they and the equipment that follows them have made brief stops in the main deck from time to time only to be returned to the sideboard, when I went back and re-tested MUC. Also note the relatively small amount of sideboarding done against White Weenie, this isn’t a particularly good match up I just haven’t had the opportunity to test against it much but the Thunderstaffs did improve things quite a bit.
"Charles Manson wants to be free. Tech doesn't want anything. Tech is to be distilled in basements and stored in sun-proof bottles and traded for diamonds, missiles, and real estate. Tech is to be guarded for months, and then unleashed upon scores of hapless players in a scourge like a biochemical bomb. If tech was free, it wouldn't damn well be tech. And tournament Magic wouldn't be nearly as intense."
4x Last Gasp
4x Telling Time
4x Dimir Signet
4x Remand
4x Compulsive Research
4x Consult the Necrosages
2x Clutch of the Undercity
4x Ribbons of Night
2x Sins of the Past
4x Eye of the storm
4x Dimir Aquaduct
4x Watery Grave
6x Swamp
10x Island
Sideboard
4x Dark Confidant
4x Dimir Cutpurse
4x Moroii
3x Dimir Guildmage
Nope none in the 32 Either.
I'd Probably be looking into adding the Other colors to some extent. The Extended Mana Base Can Support anything... Green/White Gives you Sterling Grove as an Enchantment Tutor and Red Brings Wild Research into the picture. plus Utility from the those colors.
Actually they merged my recently created Sligh thread with this one so to some of us Sligh was the topic of conversation
I hate to tell you man, even in it's earliest incarnations Sligh played cards thought to be "sub-optimal.” Simply because you play a pile of “good cards” does not mean your playing a good deck. Since when is a deck relying on Seething Song, and Chrome Mox to function is classified as good? Quit being an elitist {Explitive Deleted} and shut up.
Mods Merged the Last Good Thread for this With the U/g Control thread. While I realize they are trying to keep thinks neat and tidy around here they can be kinda stupid.
Quick List, Off the Top of my Head
4 Birds
4 Sac Tribe
4 Zealot
4 Witness
4 Troll
4 Magpie
4 Mana Leak
4 Hinder
4 Echoing Truth
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 City of Brass
1 Oboro (Legendary Island)
1 Minamo (Legendary Island)
1 Okina (Legendary Forest)
10 Forest
7 Island
Yeah, this deck seems to be the second coming of Wake. I tried Pentavus he seemed underpowered compared to the rest of the deck and had I Drawn the Trisk I had pulled to test him the game would have been over sooner.
Rant On.
I tried him in an earlier build, he's down right horrible against the Aggro decks in the format.
He was in the spot Currently occupided by Godo's Irregulars and I was losing over extension to keep him swinging and top-decking him when my opponent stablized was poor.
I hate it when you people do this it makes both converastions harder to follow.
Silver Bullet? I’ll assume you mean 5cC and not a band led by Bob Seger
Seems kinda counter-productive but may be one of the few solutions.
I began testing a build with these two over the Akki Twins shortly after posting, the results aren’t in yet.
Furnace Whelp: Tried it, turned out to be too slow in the deck.
Skyfire Kirin: Will assume it will have the same problem as the Whelp. When you hit 4 lands the game had better be over.
I was coming to the same conclusions. Rathi Dragon may be useful in 9th Edition builds though.
It’s really the only other 1 mana burn spell in the format that can hit creatures, Its not in the slots filled by Tactics because it can’t be thrown at people’s head to end the game.
I’ve been fairly happy with Artillery mostly because it plus any burn spell can take down most of the played creatures in the format Granted Arc-Slogger and Iwamori of the Open Fist do require Volcanic Hammer to kill with one card. Pulse was quickly disregarded due to the fact it does not hit creatures, and thus far in testing even with repeated Orcish Artillery activations the Pulse’s “Buyback” would have been relevant 3 or 4 times at most.
I tend to play him before Artillery when given the option I’ve been very happy with him over all.
Seems too slow for Sligh.
Seemed different enough approach to Mono Red to warrant a new thread.
What the (Expletive Deleted) are you talking about?
I'm not recalling any build of WW that I've seen anywhere that runs either of those cards, much less both.
Moxes alone arent enough to justify Shrapnel Blast, adding moxes to a deck that is already very fast and has a tendancy to run out of gas anyway seems like a poor choice.
Creatures:
One Drops: 10-13
Two Drops: 8-10
Three Drops: 4-6
Four Drops: 2-3
As such you are looking at least 24 to 32 Creatures with the remaining slots filled with support spells, mostly if not exclusively burn, note the curve assumes 22 Land. After a week or so of testing, during which time several goblins fell out of the original list to make way for better cards.
4 Mogg Sentry
4 Godo’s Irregulars
4 Slith Firewalker
4 Akki Raider
3 Zo-Zu, The Punisher
3 Orcish Artilery
4 Shock
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Magma Jet
2 Guerrilla Tactics
19 Mountain
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 Blood Moon
4 Pithing Needle
4 Boil
3 Shatter
The following cards have been considered but not tested:
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Humble Budoka
4x Viridian Zealot
4x Eternal Witness
4x Troll Ascetic
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
//Spells
4x Serum Visions
4x Mana Leak
4x Echoing Truth
4x Hinder
10x Forest
8x Island
2x City of Brass
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
4x Rushwood Dryad
4x Thunderstaff
3x Bribery
2x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Umezawa’s Jitte
Here is a rundown of the sideboarding procedures of the decks I have tested against so far.
Sideboarding Procedure:
MUC: Nothing.
Tooth:
]-4 Humble Budoka
-4 Mana Leak
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-1 Echoing Truth
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+3 Bribery
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
WW:
-4 Hinder
+4 Thunderstaff
MGA:
-4 Humble Budoka
-4 Hinder
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-2 Eternal Witness
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+4 Thunderstaff
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
5 Color Control:
-4 Humble Budoka
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-2 Echoing Truth
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
B/G Control:
-4 Viridian Zealot
-4 Mana Leak
-2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-1 Echoing Truth
+4 Rushwood Dryad
+3 Bribery
+2 Umezawa’s Jitte
+2 Sword of Fire and Ice
Notes on this build, MUC is a joke. I am talking 95 percent in favor of U/G. Tooth and Nail on the other hand is The worst match up I have found, note the sideboard helps immensely. You also may have noticed that the Rushwood Dryads come in from the board a lot. In fact they and the equipment that follows them have made brief stops in the main deck from time to time only to be returned to the sideboard, when I went back and re-tested MUC. Also note the relatively small amount of sideboarding done against White Weenie, this isn’t a particularly good match up I just haven’t had the opportunity to test against it much but the Thunderstaffs did improve things quite a bit.
"Charles Manson wants to be free. Tech doesn't want anything. Tech is to be distilled in basements and stored in sun-proof bottles and traded for diamonds, missiles, and real estate. Tech is to be guarded for months, and then unleashed upon scores of hapless players in a scourge like a biochemical bomb. If tech was free, it wouldn't damn well be tech. And tournament Magic wouldn't be nearly as intense."
- Aaron Forsythe
In a word... No.