I'm just getting back into standard after a little hiatus and like the bramblecrushs and duress. I agree that LD is not viable as an overall deck strategy but some land destruction in a controlish build is quite effective and it allows me to deal with other concerns as well. As I stated I'm going control oriented with very few creatures unless they bring something else to the table...and as I stated the ordeals and Jack are untested...
@Nev: have you tested the ordeals or is it just bad "on paper"? I understand quite well the disadvantage of having them in the deck without a creature to play them on, however; with a creature they act as a cheaper harrow and mind rot that pumps your dude regardless of dealing damage.
Btw I'm really liking Golgari Charm right now, it's last ability to regenerate all creatures you control turns an opponents Supreme Verdict into "destroy all creatures you control" leaving them wide open next turn for a victory strike!
I'm currently wanting to create a golgari control deck as well, but I'm wanting to make it marginally more control than yours using bramblecrush for land destruction and duress for more discard. I'm also working on an ordeals package utilizing Ordeal of Erebos and Ordeal of Nylea with Corpsejack Menace which can be pretty amazing...
T4 play Corpsejack Menace
T5 play Ordeal of Erebos and Ordeal of Nylea on Corpsejack Menace swing and trigger the enchantments, place two counters which Jack doubles to 4 counters, and both enchantments do their sac triggers. Two lands into play tapped, opponent discards two cards, and you have an 8/8...seems good! But I haven't tested yet so idk.
I'm also planning to run gatecreeper vine for mana fixing, that and I don't have any decent duals anymore as I was forced to sell out most of my good stuff.
Has anyone tried Flameburst and Pardic Firecat with cards like Wild Guess and Faithless Looting to ditch the firecats and make the most out of a 2mana Flameburst while digging through the deck for an optimal hand? It seems like it could have solid synergy and work fairly well. This may work better in Izzet colors for more card advantage, but at that point it becomes less burn and more combo...thoughts?
I'm currently working on a similar deck based off of Raphael Levy's "Le Wonder Goose". I think if I can find the right combination of cards I can pull it off. What I'm attempting to do is to treat Boneyard Wurm and Splinterfright as a form of the threshold mechanic. There are certain cards present in his deck that work almost exactly like those we have today...such as...
There are some key pieces missing...such as Wonder and Wild Mongrel but the play style should be similar. The biggest issue is that the key beaters in the Levy deck have either evasion or a specific key ability, such as the discard on Wild Mongrel or the mana grant on Werebear, but even without that it should be strong. We have plenty of cards with flashback to help make those wasted mill cards useful, but making up for Wonder's flying ability will be difficult. Nevertheless I feel like it could be made into a highly competitive deck.
I'm working on a new version of Raphael Levy's tournament deck using the current meta. For those of you who aren't familiar with it, here's his old decklist...
I know what you're thinking, there aren't any threshold cards in standard, however there are many cards which have power/toughness dependent on creatures in the graveyard and cards to put them in there.
These are the more obvious substitutions but Boneyard Wurm should be in here somewhere and sideboard wise Mulch works for Compost, the rest is kind of up in the air, so any help you can give me would be great. Thank you.
And on another note I am really tempted to run white just to abuse Vault of the Archangel! Sounds good...but not worth the mana-screwing. I am considering Shimmering Grotto though...or Evolving Wilds...The first will give us mana of any color while the second would allow for a third color splash without completely ruining our mana base while thinning the deck...any opinions???
I think there should be a blue version of this and they should name it Winterfresh!!! I have now trademarked the name and I get 50 cents anytime someone says it!!! Booyah! Oh, and I like the deck. Toodles!!! Lol
@ Anamiac first off, welcome to the website and I personally apologize for the rudeness of others, some people just have strong pet-peeves and don't censor themselves.
@Funeral of God - ease up on the newbie a bit.
That being said a few things that might help when creating a new thread.
1. Always check if there is a thread currently that's similar and post within there.
2. Congrats on figuring out the DECK button, that took me a few posts.
3. It helps others to group your decklists into certain subtypes such as LANDS, CREATURES, SPELLS, SIDEBOARD - you can also put win conditions or combo pieces under their own special headings, color is not normally the way people do them. This isn't mandatory, it just makes things easier.
I would also, when starting a new thread about a purposed new deck, it helps to create at least a mini-primer with card choice explanation, maybe include some which just missed the cut, sideboard options depending on your meta and how to deal with those. That being said I think the undying mechanic is neat and I can't wait to see some abuse of it, like removing the +1/+1 counters to do it over and over again, like a Melira-type creature. Anyways good-luck and happy posting.
Ok so I quess Ratchet Bomb should be included. I think this is a deck that could really benefit from a card like bitterblossom when you need it? Anybody got an idea what might work? I think if we had some solid token blockers we'd be more competitive...what about increasing bramblecrush by one and removing acidic slime for another creature or token producer? And what about Perilous Myr? If we ran Glissa for some recursion or something I think it may have more of a place here but maybe we should change it up for more of a control aspect? Decisions, decisions...
I like the idea of Mimic Vat seems solid with Acidic Slime or Viridian Emmisary, which would basically turn into swing, let him die, get a land in play tapped...then do it again. I think it's a nice high-tech play and has serious posibility. Now for token control...we have some options...
1) Mass Removal - such as Black Sun's Zenith
2) Mass Removal by creature - lure on an Acidic Slime or another personal favorite...
3) Instant Mass Damage - Marrow Shards comes to mind...no we don't play W but we do have the pay 2 ability and it's great in a pinch, however the tokens themselves are not the biggest issue of the deck, the enchantments and planeswalkers are.
So there are many cards to deal with enchantments, I personally prefer them to either be attached to creatures or have flashback...acidic slime already kills enchantments but he won't be enough. Naturalize will get them, but where's the fun in that. Beast Within can pop planeswalkers...but lets consider two other options: Parasaline and Ray of Revelation. I know we don't currently run white but we may want a source or two of any color, if for no other reason than to help us mana fix what we already have. While Parasaline kills them ALL and we get life, it's also sorcery speed, which means it's probably too late. Ray of Revelation seems to be a pretty good fit here, you could pitch it for Smallpox early on and flash it back to save your behind. Now this does add a new dimension to the deck, the psuedo white splash but the main two I would suggest marrow shards and Ray of Revelation will not technically need white. I don't know I may be grasping at straws here to solve a problem, what do you guys think???
I have been interested in this thread for a while but it occurs to me that what needs to happen is this thread needs to split up. There are so many variations of dredge decks within this that it's difficult to make sense of. Here's what I'm seeing with these lists...
straight blue
blue/green
green/red
blue/black
and lastly green/blue/black
and while the general concept is the same, put cards in your graveyard for some benefit, the playstyles are very different. The blue focuses more on control - obviously - and the green builds are more aggro. So my suggestion is to start a U or U/x thread for a control dredge and a G or G/x thread for an aggro dredge.
On a side note, I love where Magic is headed in this block, with the varying mechanics and all. Cards like Mulch are just so much fun to base a deck around. Now if we only had some solid recursion to do some Loam Control that would be fantastic. Come on Wizards...please...:)
I agree that we need a 3cc LD spell...where's rain of tears when you need it? Or sinkhole for that matter. What about some other sacrificial tech like Black Cat? I've always been a fan of random discard, and one that blocks helps out too...and then there's tragic slip, since the morbid will be easy to attain it's an instant target kill, but to me it seems like a win-more scenario. BSZ will take care of most of our problems. Noxious Revival seems like a solid addition...return a land...or even better another smallpox, for either one green or 2 life...I think it's worth finding room for, at least two of...what do you think?
I personally don't think it needs to be an all-out ramp style as this deck also has creature and hand disruption, not just the LD. However a small addition such as birds of paradise may not be a bad idea. I would prefer it to solemn simulacrum because by the time we have 4 mana that's all we need. My only issue is that to add birds of paradise requires me removing 4 cards from the deck for a mana source that can't attack...I think with Caravan Vigil and Viridian Emissary that my mana ramp is sufficient enough. While the deck does use smallpox it is not a smallpox deck, there's not as much equal sacrifice as you'd normally see. I try to keep it as one sided as possible, but then again, that's always the goal, right? Anyone else have any input?
Thanks for finding that card, and yes double white would be kinda hard to run in B/G. lol. And thanks for your input on the Ancient Grudge issue...if only we could get that out of the deck...part of the reason I ran Surgical Extraction...they might get one but not both, maybe run it sideboard and bring it in to deal with grudge...my only issue with Skittles is that we're dealing both damage and poison counters and I personally feel like the deck should focus on one or the other, but again thats my opinion...as long as it works though is what really matters, and with regular damage in the beginning and then infect for a win might be the rabbit in the hat we need. So thank you for your input, and I'll add Skittles to the card choices in the primer.
@Nev: have you tested the ordeals or is it just bad "on paper"? I understand quite well the disadvantage of having them in the deck without a creature to play them on, however; with a creature they act as a cheaper harrow and mind rot that pumps your dude regardless of dealing damage.
Btw I'm really liking Golgari Charm right now, it's last ability to regenerate all creatures you control turns an opponents Supreme Verdict into "destroy all creatures you control" leaving them wide open next turn for a victory strike!
T4 play Corpsejack Menace
T5 play Ordeal of Erebos and Ordeal of Nylea on Corpsejack Menace swing and trigger the enchantments, place two counters which Jack doubles to 4 counters, and both enchantments do their sac triggers. Two lands into play tapped, opponent discards two cards, and you have an 8/8...seems good! But I haven't tested yet so idk.
I'm also planning to run gatecreeper vine for mana fixing, that and I don't have any decent duals anymore as I was forced to sell out most of my good stuff.
Thought Scour for Mental Note
Mulch for Compost
There are some key pieces missing...such as Wonder and Wild Mongrel but the play style should be similar. The biggest issue is that the key beaters in the Levy deck have either evasion or a specific key ability, such as the discard on Wild Mongrel or the mana grant on Werebear, but even without that it should be strong. We have plenty of cards with flashback to help make those wasted mill cards useful, but making up for Wonder's flying ability will be difficult. Nevertheless I feel like it could be made into a highly competitive deck.
Creatures
2 Genesis
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Setons Scout
4 Werebear
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Wonder
Spells
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Mental Note
4 Roar of the Wurm
1 Rushing River
8 Forest
10 Island
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Compost
3 Disrupt
3 Phantom Centaur
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Repulse
1 Rushing River
I know what you're thinking, there aren't any threshold cards in standard, however there are many cards which have power/toughness dependent on creatures in the graveyard and cards to put them in there.
Here's what I've got so far...
The Substitutions
8 Forest -----------Same
10 Island ----------Same
4 Yavamaya Coast----Hinterland Harbor
2 Genesis -----------?
4 Nimble Mongoose---?
3 Seton's Scout------Splinterfright
4 Werebear----------Ghoultree
4 Wild Mongrel-------?
4 Wonder------------?
4 Breakthrough------Forbidden Alchemy
4 Careful Study-----Tracker's Instincts
4 Mental Note-------Thought Scour
4 Roar of the Wurm--?
1 Rushing River-----Disperse???
These are the more obvious substitutions but Boneyard Wurm should be in here somewhere and sideboard wise Mulch works for Compost, the rest is kind of up in the air, so any help you can give me would be great. Thank you.
And on another note I am really tempted to run white just to abuse Vault of the Archangel! Sounds good...but not worth the mana-screwing. I am considering Shimmering Grotto though...or Evolving Wilds...The first will give us mana of any color while the second would allow for a third color splash without completely ruining our mana base while thinning the deck...any opinions???
@Funeral of God - ease up on the newbie a bit.
That being said a few things that might help when creating a new thread.
1. Always check if there is a thread currently that's similar and post within there.
2. Congrats on figuring out the DECK button, that took me a few posts.
3. It helps others to group your decklists into certain subtypes such as LANDS, CREATURES, SPELLS, SIDEBOARD - you can also put win conditions or combo pieces under their own special headings, color is not normally the way people do them. This isn't mandatory, it just makes things easier.
I would also, when starting a new thread about a purposed new deck, it helps to create at least a mini-primer with card choice explanation, maybe include some which just missed the cut, sideboard options depending on your meta and how to deal with those. That being said I think the undying mechanic is neat and I can't wait to see some abuse of it, like removing the +1/+1 counters to do it over and over again, like a Melira-type creature. Anyways good-luck and happy posting.
1) Mass Removal - such as Black Sun's Zenith
2) Mass Removal by creature - lure on an Acidic Slime or another personal favorite...
3) Instant Mass Damage - Marrow Shards comes to mind...no we don't play W but we do have the pay 2 ability and it's great in a pinch, however the tokens themselves are not the biggest issue of the deck, the enchantments and planeswalkers are.
So there are many cards to deal with enchantments, I personally prefer them to either be attached to creatures or have flashback...acidic slime already kills enchantments but he won't be enough. Naturalize will get them, but where's the fun in that. Beast Within can pop planeswalkers...but lets consider two other options: Parasaline and Ray of Revelation. I know we don't currently run white but we may want a source or two of any color, if for no other reason than to help us mana fix what we already have. While Parasaline kills them ALL and we get life, it's also sorcery speed, which means it's probably too late. Ray of Revelation seems to be a pretty good fit here, you could pitch it for Smallpox early on and flash it back to save your behind. Now this does add a new dimension to the deck, the psuedo white splash but the main two I would suggest marrow shards and Ray of Revelation will not technically need white. I don't know I may be grasping at straws here to solve a problem, what do you guys think???
straight blue
blue/green
green/red
blue/black
and lastly green/blue/black
and while the general concept is the same, put cards in your graveyard for some benefit, the playstyles are very different. The blue focuses more on control - obviously - and the green builds are more aggro. So my suggestion is to start a U or U/x thread for a control dredge and a G or G/x thread for an aggro dredge.
On a side note, I love where Magic is headed in this block, with the varying mechanics and all. Cards like Mulch are just so much fun to base a deck around. Now if we only had some solid recursion to do some Loam Control that would be fantastic. Come on Wizards...please...:)