Man, I really wish they had the guts to put this in a "normal" set-
I'm sure it would be possible to word it in such a way.
They can't; the effect is too strong. Imagine this in a burn deck. Refill your hand to 5 every turn with basically no impact on how you play your deck? Totally bonkers. The colors help mitigate this danger, but holy smokes would it end the game fast if it went online.
Such a good idea. Let the crazy flow, for just a little while. Encourage people to have a good time and brew with hundreds of new cards! Yay!
Now, the banned list is kind of weird. They caught some logistically bad cards, and some combo cards, but not others. "Ach, Hans, Run!" is pretty much a win condition, as is Spike. And Frankie Peanuts with coercive logic just reads: "Target player loses next upkeep."
Beyond this, you can construct all kinds of Rube Goldberg scenarios with Un-cards, but that's no different from regular Magic.
Sorry I'm late, but no, you would not get a draw with Lethal Vapors.
You would start by offering to shortcut to a point where you had activated Vapors 1,000,000 times. The opponent then has an option to interrupt that shortcut at any point, and would want to interrupt it after some early number of activation to activate it themselves, nullifying all turn skips after that. However, once they do that, you can now again offer to shortcut another 1,000,000 activations.
This is what is called a "Fragmented Loop." Both players could choose to keep going like this forever... but the Rules say they can't. The comprehensive rules specifically say that, in a case like this, the ACTIVE PLAYER must eventually make a choice that breaks the loop.
So, how does that apply here? Well, you just start the loop during your opponent's turn. During their upkeep, you offer to shortcut to 1,000,000 activations of Vapors. They respond by interrupting your loop. You then propose to do it again. As the active player, the opponent is now barred from doing the same thing again.
Seeing this coming, a wise opponent would simply activate Vapors once during your turn. Then, if you get into a back-and-forth, you will lose, as the active player.
The upshot of all of this nonsense is that you'll never actually WIN with Vapors this way (unless they think you are bluffing that you have Protection in hand) but you will transform Vapors into a 4-mana Time Walk.
I would not hold your breath. The problem with Reserve List buyouts specifically is that:
(1) The market is smaller, so there's less turnover prompting price competition. Some of the cards (Sword of Ages? LOL) are so unplayable that literally the only reason people buy them is for speculation; and
(2) The number of cards is smaller, so it's not making a big dent in anyone's inventory to hang on to them waiting for the next spike.
Put these together, and you have a formula for cards that spike, then retain most of that spike value while they rot in speculator's binders until the next spike. That's not to say the price won't gradually move - sometimes you gotta dump your stock - but it will be slow and likely not keep up with the next bozo going on Twitter and starting a Reserve buyout frenzy.
Well Stooge, this whole finance forum is withering on the vine. So, it's not just you.
Anyway, buyout scares come in waves. This last one was prompted by Saffron Olive and similar people talking about Reserve List cards, as far as I can tell. We're past that. Ixalan is pretty safe as a set and has not exploded older cards. We have some reprint sets coming up. No news on Ixalan 2.0 yet. So, there's no trigger at the moment for buyouts.
Next time there is another event that prompts people to remember the Reserve List, there will be another buyout.
Agreed. I'm hoping Bolas gets treated more like Yawgmoth did, being an existential threat that spanned many, many blocks and required the heroes to carry out an equally long-term, complicated plan to defeat him.
None of this "whoops we just formed a team and locked Emrakul in the moon yay story's over" bull crap.
I really hope we are building up for a "master plan" of Bolas being put into effect using the trinkets he has been collecting or inventing. And, I hope it works. None of this "haha my master plan whoops the Justice League broke it damn" nonsense.
What is he collecting so far?
1. A planar portal from Kaladesh;
2. An army of immortals from Amonkhet;
3. A device that prohibits planeswalking.
Is it just as simple as a plan to trap walkers in one plane and wipe them out? Or keep them out while he conquers planes one at a time?
Speaking of which, it's pretty clear that the thing at the Golden City is Feroz's Ban.
I'm glad you're on board the Ash Barrens train, but actually... I don't think it can reasonably go much higher. Not based on "real demand" anyway. I can say nothing about what herd mentality and the greater fool might to do this card in the short term. (Hence why I said you probably are motivated to "dump" if it hits $5.00 in my last post.)
Here's the thing. This land gets play in two places: (1) casual/EDH; and (2) pauper.
In the first case, it's better than Terramorphic Expanse and a lot of useful, but not super powerful cards. It is not as good as, say, City of Brass in most contexts. So, say you want mana fixing for EDH. If you have unlimited money, then you're just doing fetches and duals and shocks. Let's say you're more of a budget player. You're looking for rainbow lands. Fine, but you'll find that City of Brass and similar cards are around 3-5. It's hard to justify paying more than that for budget fixing, and so it seems like a pretty good long term pressure on how much Ash Barrens can grow.
My take? This card may continue to climb somewhat but between 3-5 is probably a firm limit on its growth as things currently stand. If you see it spike harder then that, DO NOT CHASE. It's speculators trying to buy out the market over the idea that it was not reprinted. Don't be the greater fool.
As a followup, it looks like I only had ONE miss on this list: Reason // Believe. That card hit bulk. I love it, I'm buying at bulk, but it looks like no one else agrees with me.
Solemnity is now available for like $3.00. I think that's the right buy-in because it will have combo and hate appeal long-term. This feels like a floor to me.
Otherwise: Razaketh tanked, surprising absolutely no one; Ramunap Excavator is flirting with $4.00 but remaining pretty stable; Bontu's Last Reckoning is slipping to just below $3.00; Mirage Mirror is still floating just around $2.00.
Old Walkers were basically you and I when we're playing Magic. You can link to mana across the multiverse, and summon "copies" of any creature you have bound from any place.
But, then the Mending happened and Walkers basically became normal magic users that can travel between Planes. So, now, they need other devices in order to transport things around.
This sounds like the perfect time to simultaneously reprint all the old broken cards not on the Reserved list and have a really fun Standard for a while. Lightning Bolt, Dark Ritual, Sol Ring, Lotus Petal, Mana Crypt, Counterspell, Force of Will... let's do it.
I wish this was a joke, but no, Nightmare actually somehow spiked to $7.00 for a minute there on someone's algorithm. I wonder who was the genius who tried that buyout?
I think you're assuming I mean something about "cringe-worthy" that I don't mean. It's true, though, that I have a negative opinion of MLP fandom, and it has nothing to do with feminine vs. masculine. The nature of that fandom or what kind of sleeves cause discomfort among players is a pretty big derail though, so let’s not go there. Suffice to say that cross-brand product placement seems bad to me, but I’m glad for those who enjoy this kind of thing getting what they want.
So, it's cringe-worthy because it's feminine? Maybe you should try being a little less judgmental of things that aren't robots, dragons, or soldiers with guns.
Uh oh, careful there. This might turn into a discussion about equal representation in Magic and that sort of thing usually gets shut down by mods pretty quick. Wouldn't wanna upset the status quo with actual meaningful talk about being inclusive.
Yes, actually. The baseline of being inclusive is just a simple rule – “don’t be a jerk” – and derailing this thread might qualify!
I apologize I broached the topic and I’ll stop now.
I like that all three cards reference items relevant to their own franchise. Now if we ever do see a MLP card, you know it's going to involve brushing a MLP toy. Maybe for a power/toughness boost? Or lifegain? Actually, I'd like to see a whole cycle of MLP cards that use the brushing mechanic for on-tribe effects. Pegasus? Grants flying. Unicorn? Make your next spell cheaper. Or maybe...
See, now, this is exactly what I was worried about. It's bad enough when someone pulls out cringe-worthy playmats or sleeves... I don't want to have to declare blockers against a My Little Pony card.
I guess you have to hand it to them; it took Wizards over 20 years to put product placement in Magic: The Gathering. It's an Un-set, and it's fine, and if people like these great, no sweat. More power to everyone printing and buying these cards. I'm not hating.
But, I do find these cards pretty repulsive. What's next? Shield of Pepsi? The Star Wars MTGO set? I mean, c'mon. This is some 15-year-old-with-Magic-Set-Editor level stuff going on here.
They can't; the effect is too strong. Imagine this in a burn deck. Refill your hand to 5 every turn with basically no impact on how you play your deck? Totally bonkers. The colors help mitigate this danger, but holy smokes would it end the game fast if it went online.
Now, the banned list is kind of weird. They caught some logistically bad cards, and some combo cards, but not others. "Ach, Hans, Run!" is pretty much a win condition, as is Spike. And Frankie Peanuts with coercive logic just reads: "Target player loses next upkeep."
Beyond this, you can construct all kinds of Rube Goldberg scenarios with Un-cards, but that's no different from regular Magic.
You would start by offering to shortcut to a point where you had activated Vapors 1,000,000 times. The opponent then has an option to interrupt that shortcut at any point, and would want to interrupt it after some early number of activation to activate it themselves, nullifying all turn skips after that. However, once they do that, you can now again offer to shortcut another 1,000,000 activations.
This is what is called a "Fragmented Loop." Both players could choose to keep going like this forever... but the Rules say they can't. The comprehensive rules specifically say that, in a case like this, the ACTIVE PLAYER must eventually make a choice that breaks the loop.
So, how does that apply here? Well, you just start the loop during your opponent's turn. During their upkeep, you offer to shortcut to 1,000,000 activations of Vapors. They respond by interrupting your loop. You then propose to do it again. As the active player, the opponent is now barred from doing the same thing again.
Seeing this coming, a wise opponent would simply activate Vapors once during your turn. Then, if you get into a back-and-forth, you will lose, as the active player.
The upshot of all of this nonsense is that you'll never actually WIN with Vapors this way (unless they think you are bluffing that you have Protection in hand) but you will transform Vapors into a 4-mana Time Walk.
(1) The market is smaller, so there's less turnover prompting price competition. Some of the cards (Sword of Ages? LOL) are so unplayable that literally the only reason people buy them is for speculation; and
(2) The number of cards is smaller, so it's not making a big dent in anyone's inventory to hang on to them waiting for the next spike.
Put these together, and you have a formula for cards that spike, then retain most of that spike value while they rot in speculator's binders until the next spike. That's not to say the price won't gradually move - sometimes you gotta dump your stock - but it will be slow and likely not keep up with the next bozo going on Twitter and starting a Reserve buyout frenzy.
Anyway, buyout scares come in waves. This last one was prompted by Saffron Olive and similar people talking about Reserve List cards, as far as I can tell. We're past that. Ixalan is pretty safe as a set and has not exploded older cards. We have some reprint sets coming up. No news on Ixalan 2.0 yet. So, there's no trigger at the moment for buyouts.
Next time there is another event that prompts people to remember the Reserve List, there will be another buyout.
None of this "whoops we just formed a team and locked Emrakul in the moon yay story's over" bull crap.
What is he collecting so far?
1. A planar portal from Kaladesh;
2. An army of immortals from Amonkhet;
3. A device that prohibits planeswalking.
Is it just as simple as a plan to trap walkers in one plane and wipe them out? Or keep them out while he conquers planes one at a time?
Speaking of which, it's pretty clear that the thing at the Golden City is Feroz's Ban.
Return to Homelands confirmed.
Here's the thing. This land gets play in two places: (1) casual/EDH; and (2) pauper.
In the first case, it's better than Terramorphic Expanse and a lot of useful, but not super powerful cards. It is not as good as, say, City of Brass in most contexts. So, say you want mana fixing for EDH. If you have unlimited money, then you're just doing fetches and duals and shocks. Let's say you're more of a budget player. You're looking for rainbow lands. Fine, but you'll find that City of Brass and similar cards are around 3-5. It's hard to justify paying more than that for budget fixing, and so it seems like a pretty good long term pressure on how much Ash Barrens can grow.
In the second case, how big is the pauper scene and how much does that improve prices? Ash Barrens is a Pauper staple, to be sure. But, Pauper decks do not really seem to support huge prices on cards. See http://magicgatheringstrat.com/2015/06/the-price-of-pauper/ and https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/pauper. I am very skeptical that there is enough pauper demand period to push this too high.
My take? This card may continue to climb somewhat but between 3-5 is probably a firm limit on its growth as things currently stand. If you see it spike harder then that, DO NOT CHASE. It's speculators trying to buy out the market over the idea that it was not reprinted. Don't be the greater fool.
Solemnity is now available for like $3.00. I think that's the right buy-in because it will have combo and hate appeal long-term. This feels like a floor to me.
Otherwise: Razaketh tanked, surprising absolutely no one; Ramunap Excavator is flirting with $4.00 but remaining pretty stable; Bontu's Last Reckoning is slipping to just below $3.00; Mirage Mirror is still floating just around $2.00.
But, then the Mending happened and Walkers basically became normal magic users that can travel between Planes. So, now, they need other devices in order to transport things around.
My body is ready for Timespiral 2.0.
http://www.mtgprice.com/sets/M15/Nightmare
I wish this was a joke, but no, Nightmare actually somehow spiked to $7.00 for a minute there on someone's algorithm. I wonder who was the genius who tried that buyout?
Yes, actually. The baseline of being inclusive is just a simple rule – “don’t be a jerk” – and derailing this thread might qualify!
I apologize I broached the topic and I’ll stop now.
See, now, this is exactly what I was worried about. It's bad enough when someone pulls out cringe-worthy playmats or sleeves... I don't want to have to declare blockers against a My Little Pony card.
I guess you have to hand it to them; it took Wizards over 20 years to put product placement in Magic: The Gathering. It's an Un-set, and it's fine, and if people like these great, no sweat. More power to everyone printing and buying these cards. I'm not hating.
But, I do find these cards pretty repulsive. What's next? Shield of Pepsi? The Star Wars MTGO set? I mean, c'mon. This is some 15-year-old-with-Magic-Set-Editor level stuff going on here.
Why do you hate fun?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/16390-frankie-peanuts-and-coercive-logic