I feel so old...so old that I can remember MTGNews (where I was briefly a mod), which begat MTGSalvation, which will beget...something else, I suppose. End of an era indeed. While never a place for robust strategic conversation, it was THE place for spoilers for the last decade and a half or so, and a place I've been happy to call home.
I will miss this place, and will probably resist creating a new account in the new place before finally relenting in a few years after getting too sad to not be able to discuss Commander and rumored cards.
Farewell and RIP, 'Sally. It's been real.
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- Hawk7915
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Member for 14 years, 2 months, and 25 days
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Dec 4, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on The Dos and Don'ts of Silver-Border CommanderI wish I owned a copy of this little gem, as "My Library is Riding the Dilu Horse" sounds like the most vaguely disturbing and awesome thing in the history of MtG.Posted in: Articles -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemPosted in: ArticlesQuote from GreenJobTzar »See your number one shows why the costume people are immaterial to the community, they only show up at high level events, therefore with CS gone, nothing was lost. No one is cosplaying at my kitchen table or any other. Saying someone playing dress up makes someone buy an intro deck is such a leap of logic even the worst digital marketing hack wouldn't try it.
And your number two, couldn't agree more. Harassment's just not happening at the players playing with cards level that people think it is unless one thinks social media reflects reality. Try going to you local LGS and be a salty POS. People will play the games for an event, but you're not going to participate much beyond pay to play.
If your LGS is rife with rape jokes, name and shame bruh. Can't find Jeremy doing it, though most of his content isn't great, but would love a link.
Fair that we've gotten pretty far into the weeds here. My LGS seems generally great, my wife hasn't run into issues there and has generally bowed out because she hates limited and we're too poor for constructed. I haven't seen much/hardly any of Jeremy's stuff. I've seen a few of Christina's pictures on WotC's social media page but this whole scandal is the first I've really heard of both of them. They'll be gone, and there will be new cosplayers and scumbags to take their place.
I do think there's room for improvement and inclusion, because data says that something like 35-40% of players are women, but only 1% of serious tournament players or even casual "weekend warriors" are women. Some of that may be legitimate gender and cultural differences, but some of it is almost certainly that women feel unwelcome at local FNMs. It doesn't take the extremes of rape jokes and threats to scare 'em off.
Still, we're way off the issue here. It seems like we're both generally in agreement that being civil is good and that we're here for the larger issue and have no actual buy-in on the individuals involved, and I concede that cosplay is a poor/nonexistant marketing tool as it's pretty niche even among nerds. I do think they should be treated with respect, but fair enough that paying cosplayers to come to events like Hascon is probably money better spent elsewhere (like on fixing Gatherer or improving development or getting mainstream press attention). -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemPosted in: ArticlesQuote from GreenJobTzar »That begs the question, what special accommodations need to be made for non-majority people? As far as I saw from 95-201X, none, but my group and LGS doesn't do any language policing, though we did make fun of the guy with waifu lands until he stopped using them.
I would say the people who demand things non game related do affect the game. Beyond salaries paid by wizards for content managers and other community management roles, money that could be spent on more RnD, better quality product and tourney prize support, we've already seen calls for wizards to pay adults to play dress-up.
So yes people who want to enjoy the game differently are detracting from the game by sapping finite resources. One could say they are growing the pie, but a worse product (ICM and other recent sets) is shrinking the pie more.
1) MaRo doesn't lie, and has repeatedly noted that "casuals" - folks who play for costumes and stories and flinging cards around their kitchen table - are the major audience of Magic the Gathering by a vast, vast magnitude. Super serious players who play professionally, and even semi-serious players who grind FNM every week, are an overall minority of the player population. It is THEIR enjoyment that funds the serious R&D to grind out good products and develop a game that rewards good play at the highest levels. While the recent Standard issues are likely in small part due to overtaxing the development team to serve a story team, the ability to hire new developers and refine/improve R&D with the Play Design team is due to the ever-growing sales from that story change, which has been a huge success for MtG's primary consumers.
2) I don't see why not hitting on people, commenting on their body shape and appearance, or "joking" about rape is an undue and unreasonable accommodation to expect in a professional setting, if you are dead-set on being the very best player beating the very best opponents. If your pleasure comes not from winning but from getting to be a dick to your opponents and drink their tears, you are at odds with the intent of the game. The author, and most female/colored/disabled players, are not asking you to treat them like Kings and Queens. They are asking you to treat them like adults and fellow players. -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemPosted in: ArticlesQuote from Negator_402 »One major difference, and I hope you can appreciate this: heterosexuality is, FAR AND AWAY, the norm. Your analogy would make more sense if women (lets, for the sake of argument, make them all unattractive women) continually asked me out this poorly at a card tournament. It would be sad. If men hit on me, that would be very creepy, because they are presuming interest in homosexual activity, which is a minority. That would be like me handing out Planned Parenthood fliers in Iran, and wondering why I am getting shot.
There is also a public policy issue. We want humans to live in the US, interestingly enough. For that, we need people to, you know, mate! Unwanted advances are sad, and when made repeatedly, are in fact harassment. One-off failed pickup attempts are not, and punishing them will lead to more introversion from an already-introversive group. Should we not be encouraging players to date each other, rather than making women at Magic events sacred cows??
I can accept a middle ground: flirt with tact. At a bar, grossly creeping at a girl results in a drink tossing. At a card event, perhaps a shove? But banning that behavior is wrong.
I get what you're saying, and am all for tact. The point of the author, and many other eloquent folks in this thread, is that it is never "just you" playfully flirting and dropping it if she says no or says nothing. It is every. single. opponent. Every single time. My wife usually made clear she was with her husband, and got creeped on the few tournaments she has been to back when we were just engaged and long-distance so she was attending alone. The fact that it is a constant barrage from all parties means even the guy who says "Hey, you're cool, that game was great, let's get coffee sometime" (which I'd consider to be respectful, tactful, and focused on positive qualities instead of just having sex ASAP) can feel pretty unwelcome because you are in fact the 10th guy to proposition her that day. The truth is that the far too many men are NOT that tactful and respectful, and I get that's because they're nervous and awkward but that is a reason and not a terribly compelling excuse. -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemPosted in: ArticlesQuote from Kryptnyt »That's fair. I didn't know about any Wolfenstein outcry. If there's flamethrowers in that game, it makes a lot more sense I guess. I still don't think Nazism has anything to do with cosplay however.
Yeah, I spend a ton of time on AV Club and most of my friends are hyper-liberal so I saw some of it. There is a legitimate phenomenon of making a tempest out of a tea kettle so I'm not sure how widespread the outcry REALLY was, but it was widespread enough to vaguely ping my radar so I understood that reference. Considering how fresh, and not well-disseminated, the reference is it would probably be good to edit the section to clarify. -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemPosted in: ArticlesQuote from Negator_402 »What you just mentioned (that pickup line) is not harassment, and I fear for a world were that is considered such.
Context matters, so consider my post to be "unsolicited pick-up lines that clearly make the recipient uncomfortable" since sure, you might be flirting and it makes sense to drop old gems like this - but also, if all your pickup lines relate immediately to sex with someone who's just there to play Magic, perhaps you should find a few new ones. THAT's the overall point, really, of my thread here - many here are saying "just let me play cards, this is a game, leave politics and identity out of it", then defending dropping cheesy pick-up lines and trolling for sex with their female opponents who are also just there to play cards. You can't have it both ways. It can't just be a game when it makes you comfortable, and be about your out-of-game needs and wants when it makes you comfortable too.
I opted for a clean example in the interest of not getting a warning or infraction. -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemPosted in: ArticlesQuote from Negator_402 »No, that is NOT what it is. I never mentioned feminism and its goods/ills once. I just want to be left alone and not having thought policing.
I know it's a tough line sometimes, but the issue here is that your privilege to be left alone ends when you harm someone else. If you say "hey, you look great in that dress but it'd look greater on my floor", your female opponent calling you on it or reporting you to a judge for unsportsmanlike conduct is no longer a "Thought Police" issue, it is an anti-harassment issue. Treating people with respect, decency, following the golden rule, etc, shouldn't BE a political issue, and the point of the article is that if you take this as an attack on your personal beliefs and politics, perhaps it is time to do some real soul searching regarding those beliefs and politics. -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemThe full, in-context quote is:Posted in: Articles
"It should go without saying that if you feel personally attacked when someone denounces the Nazis, you ought to take a good, hard, long look inside yourself to find out where that Nazi sympathy comes from. And then you kill it with fire from a good, old-fashioned, American-made M1A1 flamethrower, a fine weapon responsible for killing many Nazis in the actual World War II."
In context, she refers to killing "those feelings of sympathy" with fire, and there is no advocacy of violence against Nazis. "Kill it with fire" is a common turn of phrase, and is here directed entirely as a metaphorical fire-bombing of negative attitudes some may possess, internally.
The "shoot Nazis in Normandy but not New York" bit is specifically referencing the outcry over Wolfenstein's recent release, which a handful of conservatives decried despite Wolfenstein being a long-running series predicated on shooting the hell out of Nazis (something it has in common with many, many, many other Triple A shooter titles on the market), as the context of a Nazi-controlled US still featuring Nazi-shooting was apparently too close to home for some. I admit the messaging is muddled by the long gap (she mentions the game in paragraph one, and the line, with no reference to the game, in her final paragraph), but there is no advocacy of violence here. An edit to make it clear she's referencing Wolfenstein: The New Colossus, however, may be beneficial. -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemI suppose I can appreciate the desire to "face only the strongest". Christina doesn't even play so that's whatever. I would challenge the assumption that welcoming women, people of color, disabled people, etc to the community somehow will give you less worthy opposition. I'm also not sure that folks who enjoy the game differently (for its art, costumes, flavor, etc) should be made to feel unwelcome or be treated poorly when they won't ever dilute your tournament experience or environment.Posted in: Articles
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Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemI find it interesting that many posts here are to "keep politics out of my escapism". I understand and empathize with the sentiment. I come here to get away from the horror show that is modern politics and news. I generally prefer to tune out and avoid confrontation.Posted in: Articles
Here's the thing though; folks like Christina and the author are "bringing their liberal politics into your game" because you, or folks like you, started it.
I am a white man, so I have a limited perspective on many things, but I am also disabled and in a wheelchair. I have 100% had folks talk...real...real...slow to me, or make cracks about "feeling bad beating up on a cripple" at tournaments. I've let it mostly roll off my back or taken them aside and gently told them that that is very uncool of them, as my physical disability does not overly impact my cognitive functioning and it's a bit insulting to assume othewise. Are my opponents who do this immune to criticism? Am I injecting my "SJW politics" into the game by correcting them, or by posting this?
I would hope logically you'd answer "no, that's all fine and fair" - but then why is it wrong for Christina or Alexandra to similarly share their perspective and defend themselves? I would personally not have been as violent or blunt as the author either, but as someone who can only generally imagine what its like to be treated as "less than" every. single. minute of the day, since I get treated as "less than" a few times a week, I also don't really have the right to tell someone that their anger or protest is inappropriate. We can't endorse a community that does stuff like ask women "are you hear with your boyfriend/husband? You look GREAT in that dress. Are you free later? Do you know how to play? Do you just play for the pictures? Are you just doing this for attention from men?" AND also say "whoa, calm down lady, it's just a game" when they get upset at that treatment. -
Nov 30, 2017
Hawk7915 posted a message on If You Can't Take Criticism of Jeremy Hambly, You're Part of the ProblemI was a bit nervous about the title here, but this article was dead-on. Many here are quick to say we need to protect valid criticism, but that wasn't the issue here. Christina didn't leave because of "criticism" - it's not like people were telling her she got the colors wrong or ought to have used metal instead of foam on her costume or she should switch to "Urban Decay" for makeup because it doesn't look as tacky and smeared after being in costume all day, or whatever and she couldn't take it. She left because of persistent harassment that crossed the line from respectful criticism to personal attack. The defense of criticism is a borderline non sequitur - it's like leaping into a discussion of how to prevent arson by adding "hey, just remember, roasting marshmallows in your backyard is great though. Let's just remember that some fires are helpful and maybe be a little easier on the arsonist, okay?"Posted in: Articles
The fact that there are so many comments here on MTGS are in defense of Jeremy, or a leap to "if you tell me I can't do as I please to others you are the oppressor and problem!!!!" is as depressing as it is utterly unsurprising. You hit the nail on the head. If you choose to spend your days protecting and defending Nazis, Fascists, rapists, misogynists, and internet trolls, even if you yourself feel you are NOT a Nazi, Fascist, rapist, misogynist, or troll, you can't be surprised to find that you are unwelcome in private communities due to the company YOU have chosen to keep, and the hill YOU have chosen to die on. You really should take a long, hard look at why you feel that this is the side you want to be on if you are uncomfortable with the labels that it entails.
One of the great lies of the 20th century is that all opinions are equal and sacred, that your ignorance is as valuable and valid as my knowledge, and that there is no objective truth. You are absolutely entitled to the opinion that Jeremy is right, that Christina is a crybaby, and that perhaps to go further, women are objects for your amusement or should only wear things that conform to your standards of beauty. You are also entitled to the opinion that the Earth is flat, but that isn't going to help you pass an Astronomy class or leap off the edge of the planet, and you are entitled to the opinion that gravity is a lie but that isn't going to let you take to the air on your own power. You're entitled to the opinion that all medicine is quackery and all nutrition is part of a conspiracy - take a decade off eating healthy and visiting doctors or taking any medicine and get back to me on how you feel. And you will face criticism by those that actually study, learn, research, and listen instead of forming a snap opinion based on their personal, anecdotal, and frequently privileged evidence. That criticism 100% means you will face consequences for sharing the opinions that underline and define Nazis, Fascists, rapists, pedophiles, and misogynists around the world.
I'd say that's the only misstep here. I am not calling you a Nazi - but your spirited defense of them is cause for concern and says a lot about your underlying beliefs and attitudes. If being lumped in with someone that, 10 years ago, we almost all agreed was synonymous with "punchable jerkwads and universal villains" is making you feel discomfort, perhaps it is your beliefs, and not my connecting of the dots, that is the problem. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
My thoughts precisely. I know it's lame to compare every creature printed to Baneslayer Angel, but I'd rather just kill someone with Serra Angel than wait so long for a 6/6 lifelink. Or drop Felidar Sovereign. Or ramp up to Iona, Shield of Emeria. Or play Student of Warfare. Sure that "nine" mana can be paid in small investments by turn 4 or 5, but even so it's pretty awful compared to what you could get. Even if I try to picture him as ":2mana::symw::symw:, echo :5mana:" for a 6/6 lifelink I'm really unimpressed.
Even in limited, this set gives us several juicy white dudes at rare, some nasty annihilators at uncommon and common, and a 7/7 trample that gains life and draws cards for 7 mana. This guy just doesn't hold up.
The common is going to be a high pick in limited (based on what we've seen so far, maybe even a 2-4th pick), but I'm not sure about the constructed applications. Jund's curve isn't quite high enough to need the extra mana and Thrinax is better at dumping dudes on the board since he comes back from wrath and his dudes can attack. I'm glad to see commons at all, though: I'm really hoping that getting almost all the mythics and most of the rares spoiled first isn't telling us the whole story of Rise of the Eldrazi.
Mythic:Gideon Jura - He's :3mana::symw::symw: for a 6/6 with an EtB Assassinate that can't be hit by sorcery-speed removal and is immune to combat damage. The fact that he can also randomly turn a stalemate into a blowout is just gravy. Even if other mythics see play, no card in the set is as crazy as him. His only "drawback" is that he shares a slot with wallet-slayer, but why not run both?
Rare:Student of Warfare - clearly the only leveler worth playing, a 3/3 first strike for :symw::symw::symw: that can be Ranger'd and payed for in increments is amazing. There are a few other rares in the set that seem okay (Green Gifts, Momentous Fall, Eldrazi Temple if Eldrazi take off) but nothing as good as this. He's better for constructed than most mythics (including the dragon dude).
Uncommon:Mnemonic Wall - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the wall will be the most important uncommon in the set. It's a great stalling tactic for blue. Boar Umbra and Dreamstone Hedron would also be good guesses, and a few others may see some fringe play.
Common: Overgrown Battlement - A very important accelerant for green makes this card a must-have for both constructed ramp and casual everything so it gets my pick for best/most $$$ common. Hyena Umbra is a good guess too, though: sort of a white Rancor. . .I can almost see turn 1 Lynx or Vanguard, turn 2 Umbra + other one drop (Student of Warfare?) being a popular play in standard.
2) In addition to the ones mentioned above? Not sure. . . Domestication should be a fine replacement for Mind Control in most decks.
3) The Eldrazi, Nirkana Revenant, Khalni Hydra
4)
Extended/Legacy/Vintage: Realms Uncharted has way more, way better targets here. Emrakul, the Aeons Torn replaces a few Progenitus' in some Hypergensis list and possibly replaces it in other formats as well (easier to remove and possible to block, but bigger and Annihilator 6 is just awesome)
EDH: 1 Dreamstone Hedron is a must have for every EDH deck, and Magosi Sphinx is really amazing in most blue EDH decks.
This is advice for Naill's cube, specifically. He wants a cube that is "skill testing" and cuts "obvious first-pick game dominating bombs" like Walletslayer, Mind Twist, Wrath of God, etc. With the top tier of the cube mostly cut, he's going to need lots of interesting and playable options to fill it back up, hence my language.
I understand from the rest of this thread that most people think this cube is going to be incredibly terrible to play. And perhaps it will be. But it is what Naill wants, and advising him to change his mind is like advising someone building a common cube to run Wrath and Mana Drain because they should "always run the best cards, period".
Browbeat being awful is a fair point though...I just have a love affair with the card despite its badness :embarrass:. But even in this cube it will probably be the worst card and something like Wheel of Fortune (which, being symmetrical, is fairly skill testing) is a much better choice.
Whipcorder
Willbender
Fathom Seer
Wall of Deceit
Voidmage Prodigy
Vesuvan Doppleganger
Mischievous Quanar
Brine Elemental
Aphetto Exterminator
Skin Thinner
Bane of the Living
Grinning Demon
Skirk Marauder
Blistering Firecat
Dwarven Blastminer
Nantuko Vigilante
Hyrstodon
all 5 battlemages from Planeshift (with Thornscape Battlemage obviously being the best)
Kavu Titan
the common multikicker cycle from Worldwake.
Torch Slinger
Gatekeeper of Malikir
Desolation Angel
Shriekmaw
Reveillark
Mulldrifter
Spitebellows
Briarhorn
Cloudthresher
Aethersnipe
And I'm sure there's a few I missed, but that's a good start.
Next, I'd choose a few incredibly linear strategies and splash a little support for them into the cube, to reward "gambling" with draft picks and paying attention to the pile in front of you. I'm not advocating full tribal, or playing with cards that are totally worthless without their main strategy, but I think a couple lords, maybe Tinker and Goblin Welder alongside some big, bad artifacts, a bunch of solid cycling cards alongside Lightning Rift and Astral Slide, single copies of stuff like Yawgmoth's Will, Dream Halls, Survival of the Fittest, and Life from The Loam could make for interesting choices. You still want these cards to be playable without support though, so I'd recommend going easy on the tribal, not playing many if any slivers or allies, avoiding effects like Goblin Grenade and Soulless One, probably not playing Arcbound Ravager and friends, etc.
I'd fill out my aggro section with creatures that either have powerful drawbacks (so Isamaru, Hypnotic Specter, and Jungle Lion are out, but maybe Jackal Pup, Wild Dogs, and Phyrexian Negator are in?) , or that are mid-range/aggressive dudes with strong tap abilities so that they demand a choice every turn (Leaf Gilder and Jeska, Warrior Adept as two examples).
Other mechanics that will be "skill testing" in the cube: Dredge, Buyback, Replicate, Cycling (especially land-cycling or cycling with bonus effects), having a mix of strong mono-color and multi-color cards with appropriate amounts of fixing, Suspend.
Mechanics that are probably not what you're looking for: Cascade, Landfall, Modular, Madness, Clash, Flashback, Domain. These can all call for interesting deckbuilding choices, but too often they are either dumb luck for "free stuff" (cascade, clash, madness) or always playable with no choice or skill involved (landfall, flashback), or will push an already schizophrenic cube into unplayable mode (domain).
EDIT: I think symmetrical effects (Aether Tradewinds, Barter in Blood, Balance) that can get "broken" with careful timing are good choices. I also think cards that demand choices from the opponent are going to be a lot of fun in the cube (so I'd advocate Fact or Fiction staying in, alongside stuff like Dash Hopes, Browbeat, Cataclysm, and Argothian Wurm)
4 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Crumbling Necropolis
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Creatures: 4
4 Djinn of Wishes
Other: 28
4 Ponder
3 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Terminate
4 Treasure Hunt
3 Time Warp
4 Double Negative
4 Essence Scatter
2 Earthquake
- Has this wish package inserted into a pretty standard "Cruel Control" shell; that way if the Djinn or the Jace is neutralized you can still just play control and stall to 7 mana FTW. "Wish" targets are Cruel Ultimatum (since you win), Time Warp (double Jace activations, double Djinn attacks), and Nicol Bolas (for more PW power).
I think mono-U is still just not worth it; there just aren't many "Wish" targets that you wouldn't have an easier time hardcasting. Here's a W/U build that's more what you were talking about, though...
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Halimar Depths
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Plains
8 Island
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Creatures: 14
4 Sage Owl
4 Wall of Denial
3 Djinn of Wishes
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Path to Exile
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Ponder
4 Essence Scatter
3 Time Warp
Thoughts?
I also think that while funny, Terra Eternal is more SB material with Trace in the maindeck...or maybe the other way around, since Garruk can't target a traced land. At any rate I think you could drop those for +1 Amulet, +1 Bolt or Path.
Assuming Americontrol means the same thing as LSV's WUR control deck (and it's many variants), this is just wrong. Having counted up several lists, all of them have far more :symu::symu: in the corner of their cards than white or red. Most run an even split on W and U mana sources (presumably to guarantee those early Paths and Walls), but blue is very much the focus of that deck.
On topic, I decided to run a very preliminary tally of "good" stuff for each color in this set since we have over 100 cards now.
BLUE:
Absolutely gonna see play: 2 (Jace, Contortion even at 3 is quite playable).
Maybe, if it finds a home: 6 (Calcite Snapper, Mysteries of the Deep, Treasure Hunt, the two allies currently in the spoiler, and Sejiri Merfolk).
- It's hard for me to imagine Calcite Snapper getting any play while Wall of Denial is still legal. Mysteries and Contortion are both close since, as Machius pointed out, they are both "playable but not great". My money is that standard is fast enough that Contortion is better than Cancel most of the time, and that Mysteries is too slow/too many hoops so Jace, Jace, and Divination will remain the draw spells of choice. I still think Treasure Hunt is amazing, but concede that with the fragile manabases of standard today mean that relying on the Halimar engine to set it up is too much to ask and that it stands a better shot in older formats. Finally, hard to say if Bant wants a :symw::symu: Knight of Meadowgrain (the merfolk), and hard to say if allies are actually going to be playable. Finally, if some bizarre landfall combo pops up I could see Tideforce Elemental as part of it, which brings blue up to 9 "good" cards in this set.
So that's 2 "great" cards and a lot of "playable if blue was better" cards...not a bad way to seed things for the future, really, and this isn't including the manlands. Let's see how other colors stack up:
WHITE:
Definitely gonna see play: 2 (Lion and Firewalker)
Maybe, if it finds a home: 5 (the O-ring Angel, Join the Ranks, and Hada Freeblade, Archon of Redemption, and Ruin Ghost in some bizarre landfall combo)
BLACK:
Absolutely: 4 (Abyssal Persecutor, Urge to Feed, Smother, and the Highborn)
Maybe: 6 (all those one-drop Vamps, the multi-kick discard dude, Quest for the Nihil Stone, Ruthless Cullblade, Death's Shadow?)
RED:
Absolutely: 1 (Comet Storm)
Maybe: 8 (Too many hard-to-judge almost playable cards, much like blue. Outcast, landfall burn spell, Skitter of Lizards, Goblin Zombies, Chain Reaction, Kazzuul, the Golem trap, and the LD spell are all almost playable).
GREEN:
Absolutely: 1 (Bestial Menace?)
Maybe: 5 (Arbor Elf, Explore, Omnath, Harabaz Druid, Warcaller)
So blue does okay. Black is winning in this set (is this Torment 2?) mostly because WotC is pushing Vampires so hard. Red has a lot of fringe stuff that I honestly don't think is going to get played; I am being very generous in what I consider having potential in standard today. Green is getting hosed, where are the "Green: Close but no cigar?" threads?
I will concede this, however: much of the red, black and white stuff is "maybe" because those colors have so many weapons that it's hard to find space for this new stuff. Blue has so many maybies because 2/9 of its cards are allies, and blue doesn't have much support. So I suppose Machius is correct...Worldwake starts a foundation for good mono-u decks, but doesn't quite "get the cigar". We have a few more sets of blue being a support color, it appears.
In this I do agree with you. I would be worried that a standard with Counterspell, Cancel, and Contortion at 2U might be a little too oppressive. But I think that Memory Lapse, Remand (I know I called it out in my earlier post, but it really isn't that backbreaking all the time), and even Mana Leak would be plenty fair. I even think that a :symu::symu: Mana Leak would be pretty decent. As long as Bolt is legal and there is such an absurdly high quantity of 2 power dudes at 1CMC in standard (I can't recall there ever being such a list; I guess Mirage/Tempest was close?) blue really probably does need a 2CC counter to be worth considering.
Also, you are right on about Wind Zendikon...I guess I was thinking more of limited where it's drawbacks are still considerable but perhaps more worth it, and where it's drawback doesn't even have to hurt if you have enough landfall...but even then, it's a Scythe Tiger that only O-rings the land, and while I've seen Scythe Tiger played in ZZZ draft those people are probably wrong. So call it a total brain fart on my part :embarrass:. Irrelevant to blue's place in standard, at any rate.
It all comes back to blue's big problem: counters and LD are absolutely hated by everyone including playtesters for being "unfun". When you strip red of Stone Rain and Pillage, however, red still has dragons, goblins, and burn to be competitive with. When blue gets stripped of counterspells, it has...yeah. Even the idea of a deck that has a good 2CC counter, a mediocre 2CC counter (Remove Soul or Flashfreeze, in this case), and an okay soft counter and bad but still there hard counter at 3CC probably make's WotC uneasy despite the fact that there hasn't been a deck that can chain-counter someone to death since TS, and there hasn't been one that could do it well since...wow, probably Invasion/Masques standard?
Sorry if it's sounded like I'm calling you out; your arguments are reasonable. I guess I partly like playing devil's advocate, and am mostly just realistic about how WotC sees blue now.
Fair enough; I'm a long time lurker so that comment was more directed at what I've read on these boards in general :embarrass:.
Obviously Spell Contortion and Mysteries of the Deep would be better if they were 1 mana less. Everything would be more powerful/playable at one less mana than it costs. And Contortion probably would not have been format warping at 1U (it's a bad mana leak at that cost, a bad Dismiss at 2UU, and a card that is new and hard to evaluate at 3UUU then).
I understand why they don't, though. First, for Mysteries especially, it is common and in general WotC has wanted things to be more splashable in limited so commons with a 2CC cost cost are not usually seen at common (I know there are examples to counter this, this is just a general trend since Shards and not an absolute rule). And Mysteries probably would have been too crazy, at least in limited, at :3mana::symu:. So WotC had a choice between pushing this to uncommon at 2UU, and leaving it common at 4U, and chose the latter.
Second, it seems like most colors "pay a price" for certain good cards. How many good red cards besides Bolt are in M10? Earthquake's okay in this modern standard, but mostly it's just Bolt. The exception to this rule right now is white, but just a few standards ago no decks had MD plains, and the only white card in anyone's T8 were squads of Doran the Siege-tower (white had been pretty awful since Mirrodin and all the way up until then, too) so they pushed very hard to get white to the top. Likewise, blue has been dominant for as long as I've been playing this game (it took a very brief amount of time off during ONS/MIRR standard, at least until Shackles got printed) so they have pushed hard the other way. Compared to Shards block, with almost no playable blue, I like what we're getting in WWK :D.
EDIT: In case it was unclear, I imagine WotC at least feels that blue needs to "pay a price" for Jace and Treasure Hunt in this set, and that price is jacking the cost on Contortion.
Second, Worldwake is our first glimpse of blue's return. A Pendulum doesn't teleport from one side to the other instantly guys: it swings slowly. We're not going to see a set with 23 blue cards, all of which are 5 star cards. We're not even going to see a set with 50% of the blue cards as 5 star cards. We're going to get a handful of blue cards at a time, and that, combined with the demon Cascade rotating, will get blue back at it's height of power someday.
Worldwake has some stellar blue stuff:
- Jace: probably the greatest 'walker printed thus far, and very nearly an auto-include in all non-Jacerator blue lists in standard for as long as he's legal.
- Treasure Hunt: Doesn't require too many hoops to make this the most efficient draw spell printed since Recall and Visions. Even at 2 cards for 2 this is incredible. Sorcery speed hurts, but at 2CC you can afford to wait until turn 4 or 5 after the Mindsculptor has rigged your deck to cast it and still have mana open.
- Spell Contortion: this card is...weird. Time will tell if it is playable or not. I agree that 1U probably wouldn't have broken it, but I think it's too early to dismiss it out of hand.
- Wind Zendikon: Blue can has 2/2 fliers for :symu:? There are drawbacks but this is a crazy-efficient critter in the game's worst creature color.
That's four excellent blue cards, plus blue is now the 2nd best ally color (the shapeshifter and the millstone dude), the manlands benefit blue's play style the most and the strongest manlands are the blue ones, and Mysteries of the Deep, while slow, it not awful (probably too slow for standard while Jund exists though; that's a lot of work for a splashable instant Concentrate). So be patient, be happy that blue got some good stuff at all, and just wait for the critical mass around M11 time
4 Arcane Sanctum
2 Creeping Tarpit
2 Celestial Colonnade
3 Fieldmist Borderpost
3 Mistvein Borderpost
1 Swamp
2 Plains
3 Island
4 Marsh Flats
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Vedalken Outlander
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Master of Etherium
4 Lodestone Golem
Other: 16
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
4 Path to Exile
3 Deny Reality
4 Amulet of Vigor
A few words on cardchoices:
- Outlander - With Jund as the big bad guy, Bushwacker as a close second, Naya as third, and a lot of tier 2 decks like Blightning also sporting lots of mountains, this guy is definitely maindeckable.
- Master of Etherium - I want to cut him, but he pushes my Golems out of bolt range while also being almost always big enough to at least trade with anything not named Baneslayer.
- Jace: Clearly awesome card advantage. Like Walletslayer in white, any deck with islands except Jacerator (ironically enough) should strongly consider running him I think. For this list a full squad of the Tez might be more appropriate though.
Amulet of Vigor - a whopping 14 of this deck's manasources EtB tapped. This is a solid 1-drop to help boost the Master while also greatly speeding the deck up. I'm honestly not sure it does enough to MD, though.
Deny Reality - I heard cascade is good? This hits everything in the deck except the Tezz, which is pretty sexy. Of course, it also hits borderposts so this would be the first card I would cut.
Bottom line: Outlander and Master seem bad but I think are absolutely necessary. Testing would be needed to see if Jace, the Amulet, and Deny Reality are good here or not. Possible inclusions that I wanted in here but didn't make it include:
Esper Charm
Thopter Foundry
Treasure Hunt (though this is much worse than normal in a deck with borderposts)
Everflowing Chalice
Sharuum the Hegemon
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Baneslayer Angel
Scourglass