This is the deck that I have been running for a few weeks now with great results. I play in a pretty competitive multiplayer meta, and this list has been a lot of fun. I'll probably add more to this at a later time, however I wanted to go ahead and get it on the forums to see what comments others have. Let's talk shop!
Xeanagos, God of Revels should absolutely be banned as a general. It is insanely overpowered in 1v1.
I don't play a lot of 1v1, but he doesn't look broken at all.
But this is about the official multiplayer banlist, so that's sort of irrelevant.
I must be blind, because I do not see where it says that this thread is for multiplayer only. And I wish you had experience playing against it, since that would only make any response you have relevant. Yes, I too did not expect it to be as insane as it was.
Disciple of Bolas is great in my experiences. I have yet to use False Prophet, as I don't like to see my creatures exiled. Sure, it hits my opponents, but my opponents are not typically running the amount of recursion that I am. Oracle of Mul Daya is one of those that I think many players will omit, and many players will include - both of which have good enough reasons for their decisions. Personally, I find Oracle to be pretty underwhelming. And as far as Dimir House Guard goes, I find that Viscera Seer a far better option.
What's wrong with grave Titan?
I'm not a fan of playing Iona in modern due to things like bribery and such that can steal a game with her.
There's certainly more cuts I need to make just don't know what for yet
Elesh norn could work
Bribery is something to consider when running Iona. However, you have removal in both white and black already. Green is easily added via Beast Within. Though, the best protection you can have against the theft-type cards is Gaddock Teeg. Leyline of Sanctity is one that I used for quite a while when my meta loved playing a lot of graveyard removal, as it shuts down Bojuka Bog/Tormod's Crypt, as well as prevents things such as Bribery.
I'm not certain if it has been said already or not, but you should absolutely cut Grave Titan. There may be more cuts that you should make, but this was the first one that really jumped out at me. Think about what your deck is trying to do, and then ask yourself if the Grave Titan fits the game plan.
I'll edit this once I've gone through the list a bit more carefully.
I'm not certain if it has been said already or not, but you should absolutely cut Grave Titan. There may be more cuts that you should make, but this was the first one that really jumped out at me. Think about what your deck is trying to do, and then ask yourself if the Grave Titan fits the game plan.
I'll edit this once I've gone through the list a bit more carefully.
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Edit: Cards I would remove:
Nezumi Graverobber - Scavenging Ooze is a better choice for this type of effect. Removal is cheaper, and he becomes a threat rather quickly. There are also far more things that I would rather do with 5 mana (should you get to flip the graverobber) later in the game.
Academy Rector - Sure, the Rector has a cool effect, but you have THREE (3) sac outlets in your current build (not including targeted removal)! So you spend 4 mana on the Rector and let her sit on the board to prevent attacks till it gets removed (and it will be rather quickly in multi-player games), or even worse: stolen, and then used on an opponent's side. Furthermore, your main target is a win-more card (Mirari's Wake).
Puppeteer Clique - I'm not a fan of this card, as it does not always have decent targets (meta call). If it works for you, then by all means use it. I would, however, keep an eye on how it performs and adjust the deck accordingly at a later time.
Dread Return/Beacon of Unrest - High-cost, low-reward recursion. There are better ways of doing this, and we'll go over that in a bit.
Coalition Relic - Great EDH card, but not in this deck. There are a lot of things that I would rather do on the third turn, and this card loses a lot of value after the third.
Conjurer's Closet - I'm not sold on this card. Maybe it has worked out great in a game or two, but it seems like another instance where I can think of a lot of other plays I'd rather make with 5 mana. If it works for you, great, but I'd put this on the same watchlist we put Puppeteer Clique on.
Lands: You have 4 fetchlands in the deck, 3 of which have white mana targets. Your mana symbol breakdown (in casting cost only) are as follows:
White - 23
Black - 44
Green - 29
White mana is your least used, and yet you have 3 fetches that target white producers. I would switch Flooded Strand to Polluted Delta, Bloodstained Mire, or Misty Rainforest (as your ramp creatures are green, you would want to make sure you can always produce green early).
You also have no sac outlet lands (Diamond Valley, Phyrexian Tower, High Market, et al). This are very useful in protecting your creatures against rfg/tuck/steal effects, as well as provide useful effects themselves. Another land that I would use is Volrath's Stronghold. Sure, Karador lets us cast from our graveyard. The Stronghold allows us to not only re-cast another creature, but it also allows us to ensure we have a creature in hand for Survival of the fittest, should we need it, as well as provide a safety against graveyard removal/theft.
Cards I would consider putting in:
Creatures Scavenging Ooze - We've talked about this one. Qasali Pridemage - Protecting ourselves by blowing up powerful artifacts/enchantments + putting a guy in our yard to help power out our general? This should be an auto-include. No reason to omit it. Gaddock Teeg - Shuts down mass-removal spells, along with TONS of other things I'm sure you'd hate to see cast. Additionally, with our many sac outlets (assuming you've been keeping up to this point) we can remove Teeg from play if/when we need to. Sac him to Phyrexian Tower, cast Tooth and Nail w/ entwine, recast Teeg after T&N resolves... many ways to abuse this guy. Yavimaya Elder - I use this guy in place of Farhaven Elf. I cannot think of a situation where I'd rather see a Farhaven Elf than the Elder... save for only having one green mana source, of course, but you should never even be in that boat to begin with. Bone Shredder - Do I really need to explain this card? Echo cost should never be paid on this guy, thus powering out our general. The name of the game is recursion. Fleshbag Marauder - This is an auto-include in Karador. There's no good reason you can give me to why he wasn't included in your original list. Fierce Empath - See above. Loyal Retainers - Ok, this guy is an allstar. Sure, the pk3 version is expensive as hell, but the $30 pricetag you can easily find for the Commander's Arsenal version is easily affordable for any competitive player. Kokusho, Yosei, Mikaeus, Sheoldred, Vish Kal, and Saffi are all targets for Retainers in your current list. For added value please note that Retainers falls under the Sun Titan cap (for use the next turn, obv). Also note Reveillark combo. Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Man, talk about a versatile card! For starters, our goal is to put a ton of creatures in our yard, and this guy only gets bigger for each of those. Secondly, he provides a sac outlet for use to abuse that also damages EACH opponent! So let's see here... sac Kokusho to Jarad's ability, each opponent loses 10 life, I gain half of the total life lost (math skills)... wow, if only I had a way to easily recur Koko every turn to abuse this ability (see Loyal Retainers again). Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - Simply insane. Iona, Shield of Emeria - If you want this deck to be competitive in duels as well as multi-player, then I cannot stress the importance of this card enough. Easily recurred, and devastating to mono-colored decks when recurred on turn 2. Obviously I'm not saying that it will happen every time, but it can happen: Entomb at opponents first eot, Reanimate or Animate Dead on your first main phase.
Non-creature: Living Death - My favorite card to cast in the entire deck. Phyrexian Arena - EVERY black deck should run this card. You're starting to worry me, Attila. Diabolic Intent - This card's "drawback" actually helps us in this deck. Mimic Vat - I started running this instead of Birthing Pod, and have never looked back. Two different effects, but the Pod proved to be too slow for me. Mimic Vat allows for some silly shenanigans with nearly every creature I run. Anything amazing I can hit with it that my opponent plays is just icing on the cake. Life from the Loam - If I see an opening hand with Entomb, this is the first card I think about. Putting this in the yard as quickly as possible starts fueling the Karador engine.
Well, I hope some of this helps. Also, I saw that someone mentioned it earlier, but definitely check out Icebear's primer for Karador: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=334655. It serves as a decent framework from which to build, but I would highly suggest building according to your own playstyle.
[CARD]Any of the one-shot Reanimate spells – These are pretty cute, but the entire point of playing a general is to have access to him/her/it all the time, so these always felt unnecessary to me. The only one worth considering is Animate Dead, since Sun Titan can get it back.
This is horrible advice. Ever hear of putting all of your eggs in one basket? Having multiple avenues to victory is the sign of a well-tuned deck.
1x Zur the Enchanter
Creature (5)
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Notion Thief
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Trinket Mage
Instant (17)
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Forbid
1x Force of Will
1x Hinder
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Mana Drain
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Pact of Negation
1x Path to Exile
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Tainted Pact
1x Vampiric Tutor
Sorcery (13)
1x Armageddon
1x Bribery
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Exsanguinate
1x Fabricate
1x Grim Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Personal Tutor
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Temporal Mastery
1x Terminus
1x Vindicate
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Grim Monolith
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Pithing Needle
1x Scroll Rack
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress
1x Torpor Orb
Enchantment (13)
1x Banishing Light
1x Bitterblossom
1x Contamination
1x Detention Sphere
1x Energy Field
1x Mana Vortex
1x Necromancy
1x Necropotence
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Power Artifact
1x Rest in Peace
1x Stony Silence
Planeswalker (3)
1x Jace Beleren
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Land (34)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Command Tower
1x Fetid Heath
1x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mystic Gate
1x Plains
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Scrubland
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Strip Mine
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Swamp
1x Tolaria West
1x Tundra
1x Underground River
1x Underground Sea
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
I must be blind, because I do not see where it says that this thread is for multiplayer only. And I wish you had experience playing against it, since that would only make any response you have relevant. Yes, I too did not expect it to be as insane as it was.
Disciple of Bolas is great in my experiences. I have yet to use False Prophet, as I don't like to see my creatures exiled. Sure, it hits my opponents, but my opponents are not typically running the amount of recursion that I am. Oracle of Mul Daya is one of those that I think many players will omit, and many players will include - both of which have good enough reasons for their decisions. Personally, I find Oracle to be pretty underwhelming. And as far as Dimir House Guard goes, I find that Viscera Seer a far better option.
You've probably not seen it run because the good lists run Diamond Valley.
Bribery is something to consider when running Iona. However, you have removal in both white and black already. Green is easily added via Beast Within. Though, the best protection you can have against the theft-type cards is Gaddock Teeg. Leyline of Sanctity is one that I used for quite a while when my meta loved playing a lot of graveyard removal, as it shuts down Bojuka Bog/Tormod's Crypt, as well as prevents things such as Bribery.
I would cut it for either Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Iona, Shield of Emeria (the latter being extremely effective in duels).
I'll edit this once I've gone through the list a bit more carefully.
I'm not certain if it has been said already or not, but you should absolutely cut Grave Titan. There may be more cuts that you should make, but this was the first one that really jumped out at me. Think about what your deck is trying to do, and then ask yourself if the Grave Titan fits the game plan.
I would cut it for either Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite or Iona, Shield of Emeria (the latter being extremely effective in duels).
I'll edit this once I've gone through the list a bit more carefully.
___________________________________________________________
Edit:
Cards I would remove:
Nezumi Graverobber - Scavenging Ooze is a better choice for this type of effect. Removal is cheaper, and he becomes a threat rather quickly. There are also far more things that I would rather do with 5 mana (should you get to flip the graverobber) later in the game.
Academy Rector - Sure, the Rector has a cool effect, but you have THREE (3) sac outlets in your current build (not including targeted removal)! So you spend 4 mana on the Rector and let her sit on the board to prevent attacks till it gets removed (and it will be rather quickly in multi-player games), or even worse: stolen, and then used on an opponent's side. Furthermore, your main target is a win-more card (Mirari's Wake).
Puppeteer Clique - I'm not a fan of this card, as it does not always have decent targets (meta call). If it works for you, then by all means use it. I would, however, keep an eye on how it performs and adjust the deck accordingly at a later time.
Dread Return/Beacon of Unrest - High-cost, low-reward recursion. There are better ways of doing this, and we'll go over that in a bit.
Coalition Relic - Great EDH card, but not in this deck. There are a lot of things that I would rather do on the third turn, and this card loses a lot of value after the third.
Conjurer's Closet - I'm not sold on this card. Maybe it has worked out great in a game or two, but it seems like another instance where I can think of a lot of other plays I'd rather make with 5 mana. If it works for you, great, but I'd put this on the same watchlist we put Puppeteer Clique on.
Lands: You have 4 fetchlands in the deck, 3 of which have white mana targets. Your mana symbol breakdown (in casting cost only) are as follows:
White - 23
Black - 44
Green - 29
White mana is your least used, and yet you have 3 fetches that target white producers. I would switch Flooded Strand to Polluted Delta, Bloodstained Mire, or Misty Rainforest (as your ramp creatures are green, you would want to make sure you can always produce green early).
You also have no sac outlet lands (Diamond Valley, Phyrexian Tower, High Market, et al). This are very useful in protecting your creatures against rfg/tuck/steal effects, as well as provide useful effects themselves. Another land that I would use is Volrath's Stronghold. Sure, Karador lets us cast from our graveyard. The Stronghold allows us to not only re-cast another creature, but it also allows us to ensure we have a creature in hand for Survival of the fittest, should we need it, as well as provide a safety against graveyard removal/theft.
Cards I would consider putting in:
Creatures
Scavenging Ooze - We've talked about this one.
Qasali Pridemage - Protecting ourselves by blowing up powerful artifacts/enchantments + putting a guy in our yard to help power out our general? This should be an auto-include. No reason to omit it.
Gaddock Teeg - Shuts down mass-removal spells, along with TONS of other things I'm sure you'd hate to see cast. Additionally, with our many sac outlets (assuming you've been keeping up to this point) we can remove Teeg from play if/when we need to. Sac him to Phyrexian Tower, cast Tooth and Nail w/ entwine, recast Teeg after T&N resolves... many ways to abuse this guy.
Yavimaya Elder - I use this guy in place of Farhaven Elf. I cannot think of a situation where I'd rather see a Farhaven Elf than the Elder... save for only having one green mana source, of course, but you should never even be in that boat to begin with.
Bone Shredder - Do I really need to explain this card? Echo cost should never be paid on this guy, thus powering out our general. The name of the game is recursion.
Fleshbag Marauder - This is an auto-include in Karador. There's no good reason you can give me to why he wasn't included in your original list.
Fierce Empath - See above.
Loyal Retainers - Ok, this guy is an allstar. Sure, the pk3 version is expensive as hell, but the $30 pricetag you can easily find for the Commander's Arsenal version is easily affordable for any competitive player. Kokusho, Yosei, Mikaeus, Sheoldred, Vish Kal, and Saffi are all targets for Retainers in your current list. For added value please note that Retainers falls under the Sun Titan cap (for use the next turn, obv). Also note Reveillark combo.
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Man, talk about a versatile card! For starters, our goal is to put a ton of creatures in our yard, and this guy only gets bigger for each of those. Secondly, he provides a sac outlet for use to abuse that also damages EACH opponent! So let's see here... sac Kokusho to Jarad's ability, each opponent loses 10 life, I gain half of the total life lost (math skills)... wow, if only I had a way to easily recur Koko every turn to abuse this ability (see Loyal Retainers again).
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite - Simply insane.
Iona, Shield of Emeria - If you want this deck to be competitive in duels as well as multi-player, then I cannot stress the importance of this card enough. Easily recurred, and devastating to mono-colored decks when recurred on turn 2. Obviously I'm not saying that it will happen every time, but it can happen: Entomb at opponents first eot, Reanimate or Animate Dead on your first main phase.
Non-creature:
Living Death - My favorite card to cast in the entire deck.
Phyrexian Arena - EVERY black deck should run this card. You're starting to worry me, Attila.
Diabolic Intent - This card's "drawback" actually helps us in this deck.
Mimic Vat - I started running this instead of Birthing Pod, and have never looked back. Two different effects, but the Pod proved to be too slow for me. Mimic Vat allows for some silly shenanigans with nearly every creature I run. Anything amazing I can hit with it that my opponent plays is just icing on the cake.
Life from the Loam - If I see an opening hand with Entomb, this is the first card I think about. Putting this in the yard as quickly as possible starts fueling the Karador engine.
Well, I hope some of this helps. Also, I saw that someone mentioned it earlier, but definitely check out Icebear's primer for Karador: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=334655. It serves as a decent framework from which to build, but I would highly suggest building according to your own playstyle.
This is horrible advice. Ever hear of putting all of your eggs in one basket? Having multiple avenues to victory is the sign of a well-tuned deck.
Also, I hear that Sun Titan can get back Necromancy, as well Dance of the Dead (though I personally never use that one).