MTG Salvation

Krenko can get really crazy really quickly. You can get it active turn 3-4 if you have a hasty goblin like Warchief or a Hall of the Bandit Lord. In the event oa Skirk Prospector and an Umbral Mantle you can go near infinite.

You could build Ad Nauseam and just kill everyone in one fell swoop, but it depends if you want to keep your friends, as it's a pretty silly solitaire deck.

On the topic of Edric in Multi, I went way off the board and went "Turbo-Fog Edric" and did quite well in Multi. Basically, it was a stealth Azusa deck that dropped a ton of lands, Crucible, recycled Glacial Chasm and fog effects until I just cast Spontaneous Generation over and over to get a bunch of Saprolings, then Edric, then Walk the Aeons (infinite turns with Crucible and Azusa) and just drew into more and more turns with Scroll Rack/Soldevi Digger.

YEah, my friends basically tell me what not to play these days, I'm a huge griefer.

Quote from Taleran »

How does just casting Upheaval win you the game? I have 3 blue decks and just resolving that spell wouldn't win the game with any of them, assuming of course the spell resolves.

Cast Upheaval, float a bunch of mana, replay Sol Ring/Mana Crypt, any kind of threat and if your opponent does not have a one mana answer on their turn they most likely lose. Or you could be more of a hoser and just re-play said rocks and follow up with a timetwister effect, leaving them with a bunch of random cards to your one lands and rocks. It's pretty ridiculous and I'm glad it hasn't come off the banned list.

Isn't there an announcmenet after M15? Any ideas/speculation about changes to the list?

Run Deglamer, Krosan Grip, Unravel the Aether, Oxidize, Nature's Claim and sometimes Crumble in my Thrun build. I absolutely need a turn one answer to Sol Ring or Mana Crypt or Mana Vault in my meta, and Deglamer/Unravel also tuck gods, which is super handy...

You're probably well off just running Grip though.

It's not that bad. If you're in a 1 v 1 environment that uses the standard banned list, add a few one mana answers like Nature's Claim, Oxidize, Vandalblast and so on. Remember that you can still play mana dorks off your land drop, or SOl Ring/Mana Crypt. It's annoying, sure, but only gets idiotic with Azusa.

My favourite is access to all the older cards.

My least favourite is the banned list just doesn't get updated enough. Having to wait three months for a change when it's obvious some cards are broken (Emrakul, Griselbrand) is kinda annoying, and the banned list staying untouched means we need to put up with that stuff for three months. I really, really, really wish they'd drop the hammer on a good portion of tutors, fast mana rocks and such but they prefer a laissez-faire attitude so sameness reigns.

Quote from MRHblue »

Quote from AzureShadow »

You're comparing apples and oranges. Sundering Titan wasn't played in 90+% of decks, and actually did negative things to other players. There is no "yet", Sol Ring is not getting put on the banlist.

Due to the fact that you are not on the RC, I am going to call this opinion moot. You may be right, but it is a guess and nothing more.

Well, Sheldon has said multiple times that Sol Ring isn't getting banned and is part of the format's excistence. He even said it on mtgs not long ago:

"I have never even vaguely suggested Sol Ring get banned, let alone strongly.

The RC considers Sol Ring appropriate fuel for the epic plays that define the format. And Xaois is correct: We don't consider a card's impact on 1v1. Officially, the format is multiplayer, and that's what we pay attention to. We know people play 1v1, we're happy that people enjoy playing 1v1, but it's simply not part of our decision matrix."

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/200276-good-replacement-for-sol-ring-in-commanderMeh o

Meh on Prophet and Sphinx, I'd rater axe DEN first, too repetitive and "win now/more". Prophet has already fallen out of favour over here, DEN is still catching various removal spells though.

Academy: The game becomes about getting Academy with Expedition Map or Tolaria West or whatnot, you're already adding a bunch of mana artifacts to your deck so you're supercharging your blue mana and doing things a lot earlier. Earlier 'chron, earlier Consecrated Sphinx, earlier extra turns and so on.

Metalworker: Can probably get unbanned but it'll just create more bursty mana into early Darksteeel Forge, Blighsteel Colossus or just more gas for various x spells and, well, anything that requires colorless. Sure, you need artifacts but there are tons of those that are good and also add mana, so you're reaching a saturation point where you're just going to explode much earlier than you should.

Painter's Servant: Because Iona or Grindstone. You could do fun stuff with Lifeforce, Light of Day or so on but whatever. This is probably the one I'd remove first.

Panoptic Mirror: Just a really monotonous card. You'll start getting extra turns or wipes or ramp or...and then you can copy your mirror as well and toggle extra turns on one and ramp on the other. Unlike Metalworker and Painter's Servant but like Academy, it would probably start showing up in more decks than the RC would want it to.

Gifts Ungiven: WE did a test run of this and it got old really fast. It was basically "Get Crucible of Worlds, Strip Mine, Life from the Loam and choose two of Eternal Witness, Exploration, regrow effect/extra land play effect"
and lands started getting blown up nonstop. Or they'll just tutor for a combo piece they need to win. There are already too many tutors in the format, not seeing how EDH gets much better having an instant speed four card tutor.

Quote from Golden »

So you don't think the Rules Committee members are smart? You think you have a better grasp on the format than them?

You're right that everyone tends to have their own idea of what the spirit should be. You're wrong in thinking that groups don't put those ideas together and come up with compromises that work for them as a group. At least that is how I see groups I have played with doing it. The group's practical "spirit" doesn't match any one player's ideals, it reflects a blend of them.

Before I answer the OP I wanted to address the first statement. Obviously Sheldon, Gavin, Toby are smart; they're judges and educated individuals and they understand Magic thoroughly and make very reasoned arguments. However, if I were to base my view of the Spirit of EDH on Sheldon's articles on Starcity, it would be a complete opposite of how most of us play over here. They have "throttles" on their game (no early Sol Rings, keep it easygoing etc.) whereas we just go for it. For us, "Spirit of EDH" means: "Look, you have an opponent. Respect that opponent and don't take your foot off the gas or they will win. Play efficiently, play the best and most mana-efficient cards to achieve your goals." We'd never hold off on playing Sol Ring or Mana Crypt or Mana Vault because then we'd be behind on ramp and consequently, developing our game.

And that's why the whole "Spirit of EDH" isn't really a thing over here. For us, "Spirit of EDH" is the banned list. We check every few months to see if we need to change our decks but outside of that, we play to win. If we're supposed to do it differently then it needs to be written down and posted on the rules section of mtgcommander.net.

As for the OP, Norin decks tend to be very similar. Confusion in the ranks, damage when entering the battlefield, that sort of stuff. It's fun for a few minutes but when you lose your stuff to a goblin and then the goblin comes back and does it over again, it gets tiresome. Not against the "Spirit of EDH" but annoying.

My basic lands all have the same picture and are foil. I generally use Champions of Kamigawa basics as I prefer the art; Swamps have the little "temple" in the background, Mountains are the number 2 variant from CHK in Gatherer and Forests are either Portal 1 or Champions, also foil.
I generally do not play much blue because I lack the 35-40 Islands in identical pictures/foil :(. Have enough of the other basics though.

Quote from ChaseRocks2099 »

Highlander legacy? Your doing it wrong.

I'd rather take this to PMs to not sidetrack the thread, so I'll agree to disagree on this topic.

Quote from taker324 »

This is what happens when you play in a "Social" format as opposed to a sanctioned format. EDH, Commander, is ran by the RC. They have no other data than their own games and experiences to base things off of. There is no tournament data that they use when determining if a card should be banned or not. Due to EDH not being a sanctioned format governed by WOTC and a lack of data on cards in question, there will always be imbalance in the ban list. The sooner people accept that EDH is a social format and not a format to be ran like a sanctioned tournament, the better off all players of EDH will be. Should fast mana be banned? Possibly, but then where do you draw the line? If Sol-Ring and Mana Crypt go, the guy who gets Mana Vault and/or Grim Monolith is still faster than the guy who didn't. The problem lies with players who are just in EDH for themselves. If you are setting down to a game of EDH in a tournament structure with prizes on the line, then your doing it wrong. Just my opinion. Build for the experience, not for your ego.

I get what you are saying but I completely disagree with your last point. We have weekly regular ban-list tourneys in 4-5 shops weekly here in Ottawa. Some are 1 v 1 and some are a variety of multi pods and 1 v 1. The Sunday events draw 24-32 people, each paying $5. The others draw 8-16 people (1 v 1) for $5 entry. No one gets their head inflated. We just moved on from just playing random jank and casual big stuff to a more streamlined, "Highlander Legacy" type of thing, so we could test ourselves against high-level decks and competition. Our metagame self-corrects on an almost daily basis, so we're forced to innovate and answer to new threats. Even people with pet decks change things up. We're the definition of a healthy EDH meta and we grow our community all the time. And it doesn't stop us from playing casual goofy stuff, but that does not hold out attention for a very long span.

Yeah, Tinker should still be banned. You're just getting early Blightsteel Colossus, or a combo piece like Mycosinth Lattice or turn your smaller mana rock into a Gilded Lotus or...we'd just get into a situation where people would want "Dumb Artifact that costs X" banned because people are using Tinker to get it. Not to mention it's not like Tinker exiles itself, you can always replay it later to get more broken things. Lastly, Commander would have to improve with Tinker around and making the best colour have an onto-the-battlefield-tutor that's playable turn two (off the ubiquitous Sol Ring/Mana Crypt) or well before turn six or seven isn't exactly fun times.

Quote from Henge Guardian »

This is incorrect. In fact, you draft the set in an 8 man pod, then that pod is split into two pods of 4, and each of these pods plays a 4 player multiplayer free for all.

The one thing I don't really know is how to best allocate prize support.

Our LGS is doing one pack per kill at the table, one pack for last man standing.

Sol Ring seems like a pretty dead issue as to banning. They've included it in the Commander precons and it's just one of those iconic cooler cards that make the game a draw. It would take quite a reversal on the part or Sheldon (IIRC, once said forget about the Sol Ring banning, never happening, more or less) and the others to see the light of day.

I can get on board with Mana Crypt though. It's reaching $150+, it's becoming fairly ubiquitous around here (around 3/4 players have one or plan to get one soonish) and its explosiveness can lead to some pretty aberrant gamestates. On top of that, it doesn't really add anything of value to the format outside of giving non-green (read Blue) even more acceleration than needed. The options are pricey enough (play-wise) that you won't immediately insert them into decks either. I replaced my Crypt with Mox Diamond (I almost always needed more colour than colorless) and the speed loss has been marked.

(That said, I'd still vote to boot out DEN and T&N first, but that's just me. :P)

Quote from Nertak »

I finally decided to try edh. I built a deck and went to the local store on edh night. When I got there I found that almost everyone playing runs combo decks. The games involve everyone sitting there, using the high life total and control spells to weather attacks until the suddenly announce that they got their combo and have one the game. Is this typical of most edh games or is the local group around me unusual? I gotta be honest, its not fun having most games end that way.

Welcome to EDH. It isn't habitual but the high life totals allow for a lot of buffer before your wincon shows up.
Since you are new, I'd recommend you talk to the people at your LGS and say: "Hey, I'm new to EDH, I want to learn but can you maybe lend me a deck or play something a little slower?" If they can't or won't do that, ask around your community for a more casual meta. Good luck.