What would have been the functional difference between saying you didn't want to vote to unlock your abilities, or saying you didn't have a vote, and your abilities would unlock over time?
None. You shouldn't have needed to make up an excuse for something that self-explanatory.
Do you not have a restriction that limits the use of abilities to one per Day/Night cycle? My role read like that was a standard restriction, so I assumed using a Day ability would absolve any possibility of using a Night ability.
.
This is Day 3. If I'm correctly reading things, that would mean this is the start of a new Day/Night cycle, and last night's would be last Day/Night cycle.
Also, I have no specific restriction in my role PM other than the specific parameters of each ability, but everybody has this disclaimer from the rules:
Quote from Zinda »
Unless otherwise noted, a player can only perform one action classified as "active" during each day/night cycle. If Jimmy has 1 active day ability and 2 active night abilities, he can perform his day ability every day phase (as long as he meets its requirements) but he can only choose one of his night abilities to perform each night phase.
No no, I meant that there could be a second mafia team or some serial killers r who knows what else. The flavor text of this phase makes it sound like a full team was eliminated there. The inmates think they are done and the Guardian is making them kill each other now even though "all the traitors are dead".
Basically, I'm just saying the flavor made it sound like there were multiple threats. I don't know though. It probably doesn't change how we hunt scum anyway.
@Arnnaria: Bro, I didn't do jack **** last Night. I think I can fire my Day ability to prove I have it too if I have to. I'm sorry you claimed over this, but it does make you look more like town for having such zeal.
You doing a day ability doesn't really say anything about you trying to or not trying to do something last night.
Also, am I correct in presuming that you gained unlocks by choosing not to vote these last 2 days?
There was an awful lot of deflection away from this EtR lynch...so as long as he doesn't flip neutral, we've got a wealth of information to go off tomorrow.
Self-hammer further lessens chance that Ced is scum. It doesn't rule out neutral though.
Posting from phone at work, so might not get a chance to respond to Silver before night.
EWP: I have three abilities.
1. Unlocked and active: Bodyguard
2. Locked with one or more locks and passive: Prevent first kill that would affect me, then lock this ability's locks.
3. Passive: If I'm voting for a player with a different win condition as that player is lynched, unlock a lock.
I successfully targeted Iso Night One, but nothing happened. I chose him because based on a quick review of the vote counts, WoD did not vote anyone else.
The claim certainly makes sense to me, even though randomized roles make false-claiming as anything but neutral foolish.
Don't quite take the umbrage that Axel does at choosing Iso to bodyguard, either. WoD's attack of Iso is one of the big reasons I've read him as town.
This game day, EtR has decided to play the part of the helpful Townie. When the wagon quickly built on SF early on, but then stalled. EtR observed that part of the reason was that people seemed concerned about whether (1) AI should get to be on the wagon, and (2) Ced should get to hammer. EtR decided to take a poll and keep a helpful list going - so in the future we hopefully won't have any more of these wagon stall outs. This is a scum-mentality. This is, lets try to get people organized so we can actually lynch someone - anyone. This post is representative.
He then spends many more posts just doing nothing but these helpful poll counts. Feels like more busywork. Like he's playing the part of the helpful Townie.
I absolutely agree. This is the "Beware of list-makers" warning I mentioned several times re: EtR.
I'm still not done, and I'm having trouble staying motivated. Nothing is happening. Maybe it's the time of year or the fact that the Day One lynch was so straightforward, but the game's momentum has completely died. Simply following along is tiresome when most ongoing discussion is quibbling about Shark's role and/or terribleness as a player, the former of which is completely irrelevant given the randomization of roles and the latter of which means that we might as well use either a lynch or a vig shot to end the uncertainty now. No more than a handful of players would trust Shark in endgame, so I see no reason to let him get there.
So yeah, that's a really bad reason to stick with a wagon that's clearly experiencing an exodus. I get that you're one of the people that have been discussed as the replacement lynch, but c'mon...
Also, are you really suggesting that it's worth using a lynch/vig (and since when do we definitely have one of those?) on Shark solely because he's not a great player? Like, you don't even call him mafia...
Nothing in his answer about his role would seem like it should change these convictions you've been touting, especially since your issue wasn't with his claimed role.
Okay.
Nice dismissal. Your hop stinks, and even if you think you answered my question to other people, why quote this only to publicly slap it aside?
Five days until deadline, you said? Sounds like the perfect time to try something completely different.
Vote Eric the Risible
--CASE--
This case is pretty convincing, especially given Eron caught my eye with his "eager townie willingness" to keep track of everyone's thoughts on Ced/AsianI. I'll say again; beware the helpful list-makers.
I particularly like Xyre's point about Eron couching WoD's play in a vacuum where meta basically doesn't exist. And Eron's response doesn't inspire any confidence since it's silly to ignore something just because you don't have first-hand experience with it. Quotes, links, and others with that experience should substitute nicely.
The only thing I don't love is that it seems to cast Kosa in a favorable light if Eron is scum. Because, gosh do I still wish we could lynch Kosa.
But I would much rather explore Eron than make Shark the default lynch. Especially given how gleeful some players are that an info/default/inevitability lynch of Shark is a possibility.
I just noticed many people have the interest in creating "new" wagons and talk about Gman, Eron or maybe someone else, while I appreciate the desire to push the game forward, this is not the correct time to do it. Splitting our votes right now is anti-town because it will result in either a no-lynch or a hastened lynch (maybe even in an unclaimed lynch, not that claims mean much this game anyway). I may even be guilty of this in a way since I caught scumAI so easily, and it's kinda impossible I will convince anyone of voting him considering my own mafia skills and lack of knowledge of this game.
Um...
Um?
Not the correct time to do it? 4 days before deadline would seem to me the PERFECT time to start forming a not-terrible lynch. It's also interesting that you think a split vote is the likely outcome here, rather than the town switching gears enough for a new lynch.
This post in general is pretty awful; the not-so-subtle brag about AsianI at the end being the capper. You should definitely be examined tomorrow.
Okay…so…here’s a strange narrative, if I’ve ever seen one.
Iso – not 2 days ago re: Shark
Quote from Iso »
Why would we lynch one of the scummiest players who has the most votes on them?
Quote from Iso »
@Arn: I still want to see Shark hang and have no idea why he's not dead yet.
Quote from Iso »
Stop making ridiculous excuses for his play and lynch him already.
Iso then proceeds to, seemingly out of nowhere, have a revelation, where one solitary question and answer from Shark erases ALL of those bad feelings he was having.
Quote from Iso »
]I would explain why a distractionShark lynch would be preferable over keeping him alive, but I still think he's scumShark - though my answer may change depending on his answer to my last question to him.
Quote from Shark »
Quote from Iso »
Can you target yourself?
Nope. Though, the implications of that are actually very good. I see what you are saying, but I have to judge another player.
Wow, dang, seriously, that would have been so cool. Even if I could, I only have judged 1 player, so I couldn't pull it off yet.
As I've already explained, I don't think the Shark wagon ever made much sense today, with timing and terrible reasoning from the voters being a big factor, but I don't follow your massive flip-flop here, Iso.
Nothing in his answer about his role would seem like it should change these convictions you've been touting, especially since your issue wasn't with his claimed role.
Frankly, though, I'm pretty surprised that they killed desCoures last night. He's not who I thought their target would be at all (something I can prove).
This is intriguing...
How can you prove that you didn't think dC would be the NK target?
After the events of the past few days, I will begrudgingly admit that Shark is winning me over. His tone reminds me of myself from Checks and Balances when I was almost run up day 1, so he's resonating with me on that level, at least.
I'm going to Unvote: Shark for now, and get some rereading in.
This is kinda goofy; comparing your past play to Shark's as a way of giving him town points.
Seems a false reason to get off an incorrect wagon.
An information lynch on Day 2? When you don't really have strong feelings that the guy is scum?
That's me looking at the potential upsides of a lynch I'm not happy with. Shark has ended up in a corner where someone will be trying lynch him for the rest of the game, so getting that cleared up and the information from two day's worth of wagons is some silver lining.
I would still prefer KosaKosa to be lynched, but the public majority doesn't seem to be agreeing with me.
Fair enough. I'm definitely in the Kosa being lynched camp as well.
Alright so, I'm going to try and keep track of the vote issue - I'll try and read back to find people's opinion from before if I get a chance. As of right now I have:
ced Hammering
Eron, ced (I assume), Arrnaria
Asian voting
Iso, Tanarin, Arrnaria, AsianI,
Alternate:
SilverSihhe (starting with?)
If people just want to quote and add their name, that might speed things along. Hopefully it will put the issue to rest, at least for the remainder of the day.
I'm always wary of the 'helpful list-compiling townie'.
As for me, though I don't think it makes sense for Ced to be scum, it's definitely still possible for him to be neutral. So I have to vote no to him hammering.
Also not averse to Asian on wagons if he uses some informed reasons.
As I've said, I think Guardman is scum, but there's not enough traction to get a Guardman lynch rolling right now. Let's nail Shark for the scummy scum he is now and regroup on Day 3.
One question I do have for you (Alpha) though is in your response to Arnn:
...
How would him including a Judgement claim for Xyre be foresight in this case if it was a fake claim? I am not following the logic here.
It's nothing ironclad; The logic is just that a fake claim doesn't usually include results of abilities at the outset. Typically the claim is put out there, and then somebody asks for clarification of who they targeted. It gives the claimee more time to formulate their story.
But wouldn't also be likely given how obviously townie Xyre has been that it would be an easy fakeclaim to make?
Yes, it would, but that's not what I was saying. I didn't say it would be difficult or unexpected for him to name Xyre, but that it is less likely to give any result information immediately in a false claim.
Besides, this entire tangent is not all that important since fake claiming in a game with randomized roles, as has already been established, is kind of pointless.
His claim seems like a legitimate role based on the types of "incremental value JoAT" roles zindabad used in Grim Batol, so the arguments about it being a false claim don't jive with me. The speed of the wagon concerns me, but I have only seen scummy to neutral posts from him; I don't recall seeing any posts that I would say clearly demonstrate a town mindset. I'm not confident about the lynch, especially now that there's the self-hammering issue muddying the wine, but I'd say that it's about as good a lynch as any on Day Two of a large game.
is scummier than every post I've read of Shark's.
Kudos to Xyre, because this post of Asian's is extremely convoluted. The first two parts are giving reasons that Shark would be town, while he then says he's seen only scummy to neutral posts from SF. Which is frankly ridiculous. Even obvious scum isn't that obvious.
The note about not seeing a clear town mindset is also unconvincing.
I also like how he's not confident about the lynch, but is perfectly willing to do it anyway (for his benefit) because we're ALL THE WAY in Day 2 of a big game. We have quite a long road ahead, even in this day. This Shark wagon just reeks.
I assume this is about AI here and not Xyre, correct? I may have more to ask, but I need to know the context, because as worded, this is pretty ambiguous to me.
Yes, it's about AsianInvasion's post. I don't really see how you could think it was about Xyre, when the entirety of my response is breaking down the content of AsianInvasion's post.
Plus, why can't there be no mafia at Shark's wagon? Or some at his and some at WoD's? Maybe the last votes (or votes without good reasoning) on both? It's a possibility.
You misunderstood me. I was saying that it seems extremely unlikely that there are no mafia on the Shark wagon.
One question I do have for you (Alpha) though is in your response to Arnn:
...
How would him including a Judgement claim for Xyre be foresight in this case if it was a fake claim? I am not following the logic here.
It's nothing ironclad; The logic is just that a fake claim doesn't usually include results of abilities at the outset. Typically the claim is put out there, and then somebody asks for clarification of who they targeted. It gives the claimee more time to formulate their story.
His claim seems like a legitimate role based on the types of "incremental value JoAT" roles zindabad used in Grim Batol, so the arguments about it being a false claim don't jive with me. The speed of the wagon concerns me, but I have only seen scummy to neutral posts from him; I don't recall seeing any posts that I would say clearly demonstrate a town mindset. I'm not confident about the lynch, especially now that there's the self-hammering issue muddying the wine, but I'd say that it's about as good a lynch as any on Day Two of a large game.
is scummier than every post I've read of Shark's.
Kudos to Xyre, because this post of Asian's is extremely convoluted. The first two parts are giving reasons that Shark would be town, while he then says he's seen only scummy to neutral posts from SF. Which is frankly ridiculous. Even obvious scum isn't that obvious.
The note about not seeing a clear town mindset is also unconvincing.
I also like how he's not confident about the lynch, but is perfectly willing to do it anyway (for his benefit) because we're ALL THE WAY in Day 2 of a big game. We have quite a long road ahead, even in this day. This Shark wagon just reeks.
Quote from Iso »
Because it only works if you know who the mafia is? I read it like 5 times when you posted it (and I was sober at the time!) and I still don't understand it.
The role has been dissected by multiple people, including Shark himself, and you're a bright guy. How don't you understand it, exactly? It's fairly straightforward.
So, it comes down to behaviour and I am totally torn. On the one hand, he did scummy stuff yesterday and his attack on Caex was awful, but on the other I can't help but get the trying-townie-who-isn't-playing-well vibe, and his delay on attacking Nis while WoD wagon was at full steam is so not-WoD's-buddy. I really don't know: he's probably worth lynching for the information, but bleh. There are better options for likelihood of scum I think.
An information lynch on Day 2? When you don't really have strong feelings that the guy is scum?
1.) Shark's wagon wasn't speedy by any means: he's being considered scummy since a bit after RVS.
I don't mean he's gone from 0 to wagoned from the start of the game, but rather that it's a quick wagon from the start of Day 2.
Quote from KosaKosa »
2.) Shark was being the most pressured player at D1 before Xyre dropped his WoD case. Shark would then probably be the one lynched at D1 for being widely considered scum, so pointing out "the timing" isn't a good argument.
This doesn't change what my point is. Any pressure D1 before the WoD lynch is less impactful now since it's clear WoD wasn't brought up to pull attention from other players, but as a legitimate case.
By timing, I mean that I believe it to be far less likely that the mafia would go along with back-to-back scum lynches this easily, and this quickly in the early game. Unless you expect to me to believe there are no mafia members on the Shark wagon.
Quote from Kosakosa »
3.) I'm waiting for Ecophagy to make his response post at me that he said he would do to re-answer EtR and you. I'm tired of addressing walls after doing it thrice in a row.
I wasn't accusing you of delaying, personally, since you've been very pro-active in responding to me.
@Alpha: Shark is not new by any means. We've had this discussion.
I said relatively new. He played for about a year on MS, and then has been here for about 5 months. I look back on games I played here when I had been on the site for 3 years and shudder at how poor my play was.
And even ignoring experience, you could still stand to be a little less hurtful.
Why aren't they the same thing? Hammering without claiming first is still potentially a unilateral action, and you're accountable for your actions when you do claim your unlock trigger. Plus, it's still more difficult than organizing it.
Besides, I was reasonably confident that I would have convinced others of my towniness by the end of day one.
Look, we're arguing over a difference of opinion here, and I don't think your decisions were scum-motivated anyway. What it seems to come down to, given your response, is that you think it's worth the risk of coming out with the information and being handed the hammer, than watching the thread carefully enough to get it organically. I just don't.
Quote from Ced »
It's what usually happens when someone requests the hammer vote.
I've just never seen that happen, but that could be from a lack of instances where I could have seen it happen.
I'm at L-2. I'll respond to everything later. Within the next 2 hours.
I'll claim now since I have time for that.
I am the Paladin.
4 Abilities.
Judgement is a passive ability where I pick a player at the end of each day and decide whether they are town or scum. When they die, and I get it correct, I can unlock a lock. If I get it wrong, I lock a lock. Interesting ability but it's really skill intensive.
I have judged Xyre as town (I could not judge WoD as scum, which is sad since he claimed it).
Defend the Righteous is an active day ability where I pick a player I judged as town and their lynch threshold is increased by 1. It is currently locked (1 lock)
Punish the Wicked is a passive ability where whenever I vote a player I judged as scum, it's a double vote. It is currently locked (1 lock)
Second Thoughts is an active day ability where I can change my judgement on a player (i.e. I could change my mind and make Xyre scum). When I do, the ability locks up. It is currently locked (1 lock).
It is not a good role early game, but it can be powerful regardless of alignment.
I do not mind if I am lynched at this point as apparently I cannot do anything right at this point and when I build a more solid case (in my mind), it gets more scrutiny and apparently more scummy.
I'm town and may end up dying like Nixon: A good guy that got caught up in something that discounts anything good he's done.
Um, how can this role be randomized? It only makes sense on a town player.
On a mafia player it's overpowered because mafia know who mafia is and town know who town is.
So if it can't be mafia, it can only be town. And if it can only be town, then it can't be random.
Care to explain the disconnect Shark?
See, I don't think this role has to be town at all, and it wouldn't even make sense to false-claim a role that would be limited in that way.
As written, it would seem to be a town role only because the choice element is more skill-intensive that way. From a scum perspective, it would not be as skill-intensive, but just a flexible role with options.
The fact that Shark sees this role as skill-intensive is either good acting, or genuine impressions of his role as town. And I'm not inclined to think Shark is a good actor. No offense.
The role is extremely elegant, and incredibly unlikely to be made up on the spot. Not only because of the quality of the design, but because Shark included his judgment of Xyre in the same post as the claim. That'd have been a major foresight if he were fake-claiming.
Arnnaria - I've generally been a fan of him town, but lately on me, I do not like what extra evidence he's throwing on me. Most of it is non-alignment bearing and I think its scummy. I mean accusing someone of changing their role in a game where players recieve roles randomly??
ced395- I'm still unsure here. I can see him as scum for general style, but I could be wrong here.
Caex Kothar - I still feel you could be scum, but maybe everyone else is right here and that I just didn't really appreciate what you put in.
Xyre - You are pretty much town.
Ecophagy - I did not like you much yesterday, but today I like you overall. You are revisiting your reads and generally being proactive.
Tanarin - I am unsure here. Having issues reading.
Axelrod - You are my strongest defender and I am ever grateful for this, especially with Iso, Asenion, and Kosa harassing you for it. You are considering the mindset I'm coming from and I like what you have to say here.
Asenion - You seem to be very focused on your role, maybe it's because you are novice and consider that to be the most powerful thing. I think you may be town but unsure.
Kosakosa - I actually think you are in a similar boat here with me. If I wasn't the lynch today, you might have been. I think you are an easy lynch taken advantage of by scum and likely town.
AlphaInsidious - Really I haven't seen much from you at all so I really don't know. A player I considered to analyze instead of Caex.
AsianInvasion (r. Charm_Master3125) - Focused on getting on a wagon, rather than who is being lynched. Focused on self over good of town. May be scum.
Nis - I thought scum but you are leaning town at this point so I don't know yet.
Cythare (r. Vitek) - Vitek I didn't like, you I started liking but something tells me that you may actually be scum.
Deaths_Vampire - I don't know where you are. Come back so I can read you (leaning town but absence concerns me)
SilverSihhe - Pretty much town in my mind.
Guardman - Unsure, but gut says leaning scum.
Iso - Mission to get Axel lynched is still carried on. Given how I feel with people on my wagon and my experience with Iso, I am actually thinking Iso scum here.
EtR - I thought you were scummy in Gotham but I was wrong. Similar style here plus you look into my mindset, so leaning town.
Scumteam of: Dead WoD/Iso/Caex/Cythare/AlphaI
Neutral: Deaths_Vampire or AsianI
Shark's note about Axelrod in here is the most telling about his alignment, IMO. Do people on his wagon really think that gratitude isn't coming from a genuine place?
On top of all of the recent things about the Shark wagon that make me think he's not mafia, there's also:
1.) The speed of the wagon
2.) The timing of it -- happening quickly one day after a D1 mafia lynch (how often do games start out with 2 straight mafia lynches, where the 2nd comes a week into Day 2?)
3.) Effectively killing any momentum the Kosakosa inquisition had going for it.
None. You shouldn't have needed to make up an excuse for something that self-explanatory.
People with something to hide make up excuses.
This is Day 3. If I'm correctly reading things, that would mean this is the start of a new Day/Night cycle, and last night's would be last Day/Night cycle.
Also, I have no specific restriction in my role PM other than the specific parameters of each ability, but everybody has this disclaimer from the rules:
You doing a day ability doesn't really say anything about you trying to or not trying to do something last night.
Also, am I correct in presuming that you gained unlocks by choosing not to vote these last 2 days?
Vote: Asenion
Self-hammer further lessens chance that Ced is scum. It doesn't rule out neutral though.
Posting from phone at work, so might not get a chance to respond to Silver before night.
Okay.
...
The claim certainly makes sense to me, even though randomized roles make false-claiming as anything but neutral foolish.
Don't quite take the umbrage that Axel does at choosing Iso to bodyguard, either. WoD's attack of Iso is one of the big reasons I've read him as town.
I absolutely agree. This is the "Beware of list-makers" warning I mentioned several times re: EtR.
So yeah, that's a really bad reason to stick with a wagon that's clearly experiencing an exodus. I get that you're one of the people that have been discussed as the replacement lynch, but c'mon...
Also, are you really suggesting that it's worth using a lynch/vig (and since when do we definitely have one of those?) on Shark solely because he's not a great player? Like, you don't even call him mafia...
Nice dismissal. Your hop stinks, and even if you think you answered my question to other people, why quote this only to publicly slap it aside?
This case is pretty convincing, especially given Eron caught my eye with his "eager townie willingness" to keep track of everyone's thoughts on Ced/AsianI. I'll say again; beware the helpful list-makers.
I particularly like Xyre's point about Eron couching WoD's play in a vacuum where meta basically doesn't exist. And Eron's response doesn't inspire any confidence since it's silly to ignore something just because you don't have first-hand experience with it. Quotes, links, and others with that experience should substitute nicely.
The only thing I don't love is that it seems to cast Kosa in a favorable light if Eron is scum. Because, gosh do I still wish we could lynch Kosa.
But I would much rather explore Eron than make Shark the default lynch. Especially given how gleeful some players are that an info/default/inevitability lynch of Shark is a possibility.
Unvote; Vote: EtR
Um...
Um?
Not the correct time to do it? 4 days before deadline would seem to me the PERFECT time to start forming a not-terrible lynch. It's also interesting that you think a split vote is the likely outcome here, rather than the town switching gears enough for a new lynch.
This post in general is pretty awful; the not-so-subtle brag about AsianI at the end being the capper. You should definitely be examined tomorrow.
Iso – not 2 days ago re: Shark
Iso then proceeds to, seemingly out of nowhere, have a revelation, where one solitary question and answer from Shark erases ALL of those bad feelings he was having.
As I've already explained, I don't think the Shark wagon ever made much sense today, with timing and terrible reasoning from the voters being a big factor, but I don't follow your massive flip-flop here, Iso.
Nothing in his answer about his role would seem like it should change these convictions you've been touting, especially since your issue wasn't with his claimed role.
This is intriguing...
How can you prove that you didn't think dC would be the NK target?
This is kinda goofy; comparing your past play to Shark's as a way of giving him town points.
Seems a false reason to get off an incorrect wagon.
Fair enough. I'm definitely in the Kosa being lynched camp as well.
I'm always wary of the 'helpful list-compiling townie'.
As for me, though I don't think it makes sense for Ced to be scum, it's definitely still possible for him to be neutral. So I have to vote no to him hammering.
Also not averse to Asian on wagons if he uses some informed reasons.
Is Axel not your top suspect?
Yes, it would, but that's not what I was saying. I didn't say it would be difficult or unexpected for him to name Xyre, but that it is less likely to give any result information immediately in a false claim.
Besides, this entire tangent is not all that important since fake claiming in a game with randomized roles, as has already been established, is kind of pointless.
Yes, it's about AsianInvasion's post. I don't really see how you could think it was about Xyre, when the entirety of my response is breaking down the content of AsianInvasion's post.
You misunderstood me. I was saying that it seems extremely unlikely that there are no mafia on the Shark wagon.
It's nothing ironclad; The logic is just that a fake claim doesn't usually include results of abilities at the outset. Typically the claim is put out there, and then somebody asks for clarification of who they targeted. It gives the claimee more time to formulate their story.
This was an interesting overreaction by Cythare to AsianInvasion's post. AsianI never called Cythare scum, but that's where Cythare's mind went.
Kudos to Xyre, because this post of Asian's is extremely convoluted. The first two parts are giving reasons that Shark would be town, while he then says he's seen only scummy to neutral posts from SF. Which is frankly ridiculous. Even obvious scum isn't that obvious.
The note about not seeing a clear town mindset is also unconvincing.
I also like how he's not confident about the lynch, but is perfectly willing to do it anyway (for his benefit) because we're ALL THE WAY in Day 2 of a big game. We have quite a long road ahead, even in this day. This Shark wagon just reeks.
The role has been dissected by multiple people, including Shark himself, and you're a bright guy. How don't you understand it, exactly? It's fairly straightforward.
An information lynch on Day 2? When you don't really have strong feelings that the guy is scum?
I don't mean he's gone from 0 to wagoned from the start of the game, but rather that it's a quick wagon from the start of Day 2.
This doesn't change what my point is. Any pressure D1 before the WoD lynch is less impactful now since it's clear WoD wasn't brought up to pull attention from other players, but as a legitimate case.
By timing, I mean that I believe it to be far less likely that the mafia would go along with back-to-back scum lynches this easily, and this quickly in the early game. Unless you expect to me to believe there are no mafia members on the Shark wagon.
I wasn't accusing you of delaying, personally, since you've been very pro-active in responding to me.
I said relatively new. He played for about a year on MS, and then has been here for about 5 months. I look back on games I played here when I had been on the site for 3 years and shudder at how poor my play was.
And even ignoring experience, you could still stand to be a little less hurtful.
....I know that? I've even told AsianInvasion that roles are randomized. What makes you think I think it is tied to an alignment?
That's the opposite of what I was saying, which was in response to Arnaria being skeptical of the role's ability to be randomized.
Look, we're arguing over a difference of opinion here, and I don't think your decisions were scum-motivated anyway. What it seems to come down to, given your response, is that you think it's worth the risk of coming out with the information and being handed the hammer, than watching the thread carefully enough to get it organically. I just don't.
I've just never seen that happen, but that could be from a lack of instances where I could have seen it happen.
See, I don't think this role has to be town at all, and it wouldn't even make sense to false-claim a role that would be limited in that way.
As written, it would seem to be a town role only because the choice element is more skill-intensive that way. From a scum perspective, it would not be as skill-intensive, but just a flexible role with options.
The fact that Shark sees this role as skill-intensive is either good acting, or genuine impressions of his role as town. And I'm not inclined to think Shark is a good actor. No offense.
The role is extremely elegant, and incredibly unlikely to be made up on the spot. Not only because of the quality of the design, but because Shark included his judgment of Xyre in the same post as the claim. That'd have been a major foresight if he were fake-claiming.
Shark's note about Axelrod in here is the most telling about his alignment, IMO. Do people on his wagon really think that gratitude isn't coming from a genuine place?
On top of all of the recent things about the Shark wagon that make me think he's not mafia, there's also:
1.) The speed of the wagon
2.) The timing of it -- happening quickly one day after a D1 mafia lynch (how often do games start out with 2 straight mafia lynches, where the 2nd comes a week into Day 2?)
3.) Effectively killing any momentum the Kosakosa inquisition had going for it.
You know you're being rather insensitive, yes? We've all been relatively new to mafia before.