I would recommend playing around with a bunch of different cube styles on cubetutor: singleton, variable rarity ratios, urza's block + augmented card pool, etc. See which one either stimulates the nostalgia feeling best, or leads to new and interesting ways of utilizing the old expansions.
It would not surprise me that multiple, different urzas cubes are already present on the site, for you to either try out off the bat, or take on and modify to your liking.
So, to repeat this back, you basically have the general slot as an extra slot in the pack? Like a basic land? Or did I misunderstand that.
You got the right idea. Seeding each pack with one bi or tri colored legend is how I draft my cube these days too.
I used to do a 5-card generals only pack before the main cube, but my players felt it forced them into a color identity too early in the process. Seeding packs instead has been a much cleaner system for allowing some folks to stay open longer during the draft, while giving other players access to a general that they want to run with for the remainder of the draft + deck building phase.
Red
- thopter engineer - weak link red card
- thunderbreak regent - on the chopping block for a while; not strong or useful enough for edh cube
- dragon whisperer - low cmc placeholder; may restore as pet card
+ Kari Zev, Skyship Raider - test for low cmc red + tokens + purphoros/pandemonium style decks
- Savageborn Hydra - unfortunate cut, but a super low pick in drafts and frequent cut during deck building
- Arlinn Kord - weak link in my gruul planeswalker section
- Saheeli Rai - better in constructed edh
- Epic Experiment - under performed; would need to reevaluate a lot of the cube to ensure that the critical mass of spells is available for this to be a relevant threat card
Artifacts and colorless
- Animation Module - recent addition, but cut
- mindcrank - never became as relevant to reanimator decks as I had hoped
- surveyor's scope - too slow and unreliable ramp for non-green decks
- trading post - may restore
- gauntlet of power - too mono colored focused; better in constructed
- deal broker - not worth the slot unfortunately; end of draft deals usually underwhelming
- thopter assembly - high cmc cut
- command beacon - better in a constructed, very commander-centric build
- mirrorpool - under performer
- sea gate wreckage - under performer
- staff of nin - high cmc cut
+ paradox engine - test; will need to see if this becomes oppressive though...
Plus one counters is definitely a powerful and fun strategy in multiplayer cube. I think your list above is a good start, and would consider (if you aren't using these already) managorger hydra, armorcraft judge, champion of lambholt, and mycoloth.
Hi everyone! Can I please trouble the forum for some thoughts on a bunch of cuts I would like to make to my edh cube? I'm interested in getting it to where 8 players can draft 5 packs of 14 cards (main cube) + 1 general seeded per pack (a reduction of about 40 cards in my case). I have a few different schemes in mind, which I've listed below.
Any advice on cards that have been better in practice than on paper is certainly appreciated as well!
Possible Cuts:
Scheme 1 (40 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, 2 from each multicolor, 25 colorless cuts
Scheme 2 (40 cards) - 2 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 20 colorless cuts
Scheme 3 (40 cards) - 4 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
Scheme 4 (25 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, add booster tutor to black, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
I could see using some of the common and uncommon ones in a 4 person, multiplayer cube, but I think the rares and mythics are a bit too nutty. In the 2 player, 90 card arena, the card pool is probably too tight, trying to establish archetypes and proper CMC curves, to spend slots on conspiracies and draft constructs.
That said, a 4 person, multiplayer Fiora plane-cube sounds like it'd be a really cool, thematic experience! At 180 cards, I'd probably only include ~5 conspiracies and draft constructs, and maybe a smattering of draft matters cards in WUBRG. It'd probably be real easy to just buy a 1/2 box of both conspiracy 1 & 2, and then build a microcube out of the left overs.
Thanks very much for the great review! AER really feels like a frankenstein's monster of a set, with so many cards with multiple moving parts and functions!
I'm pleased that a goodly number of uncommons made the list this time around, but it's interesting to note how few commons and mythics made it on! I'll be paying close attention to folks' limited reviews for cards that may have utterly slipped under the radar on the first pass.
C16 was definitely a good base to build an edh cube off of. I picked up the set myself, and after pulling few cards for my normal edh cube, have kept the rest of the contents together for budget deck building and "battle boxing." I've since been adding cast offs from my other cubes and making < $2/card upgrades to all of the archetypes implied by 4 color leaders. It's been a lot of fun to work on and play, although I have yet to try and draft it. Mtggoldfish's articles on ~$20 ugrades have been particularly good.
I would recommend completing the cycles of signets, pain lands, check lands, and odyssey duals. IIRC, the guilds are disproportionately represented, so you can always try and flesh out those.
Tri-colored cards frequently turn into dead picks in normal edh draft, so I would advise against adding/retaining too many of those, although 3-colored stuff would probably have a lot more traction when 3 out of 5 of the quad-colored generals can use them. You'd probably just have to see how well they work out.
Finally, I would recommend players draft 60+ card decks instead of full 100 card ones. Drafting enough for 100 card lists takes a miserably long time, and the 67 card decks I normally play with seem to simulate the feel of full edh lists.
Nice work. I'm sure your cube is a sight to behold in person!
Any particular reason you maintain such a large cube? Scanning your cubetutor contents, it seems like there are quite a few cards you could trim, to get a more streamlined edh experience.
Just saw your post. Nice write up! I've been engaged in a somewhat similar project myself:
I preordered the set of C16 decks, but landed up only needing a very small selection of cards for my normal edh cube. By using some store credit I already had at card kingdom, it only cost about $20 to replenish all the stuff I removed (skate, magus, spymaster, etc), leaving me with the complete 5 precons again.
After playing a couple of games with my group using the unmodified decks, I was so impressed with how they played that I decided to work on something like a budget battlebox/edh cube. Like you, I removed all of the duplicates, cut a bunch of the stinkiest cards in each color and guild, sleeved all the cards in the same protectors, and set aside a duplicate set of command tower, sol ring, commander's sphere, and other cross-deck fixers, in case I want to put together some duel decks.
In addition, I've been diligently following the mtggoldfish "C16 budget upgrades" series, for some inspiration on cheap substitutions and inclusions in the precons. I've spent about an additional $30 or so buying <$5 cards for a separate selection of cards to further augment the lists, many from the aforementioned mtggoldfish folks. Finally, I've pulled a few other good all-round cards from mycollection, worldchampionshipdecks, and cutsfrom my edh cube that I hadn't gotten around to selling.
My edh cube is starting to get up there in price these days, and I'm getting increasingly leary of brining it to my LGS. The budget C16 cube may land up being a serviceable travel cube instead! I remember back when folks here started discussing building edh cubes, a few of us gave out advice that, in the absence of a well developed edh collection already, you could do a lot worse than jam together all of the commander 2011 decks, make some color balance tweaks, and be in a good position to start a cube. Wizards really did a great job with 2016's crop of decks, and I think those 5 are an even better bedrock to build off of.
Reposted the current cube contents in the OP ~ basically encompassing all of 2016's changes.
Played a (probably inadvisable) session last weekend where, in honor of the commander 2016 partner mechanic, we granted partner to all mono and bi colored legends in the cube, provided at least one color matched (example Jhoira of the Ghitu + Prime Speaker Zegana = Temur landed up being what I played).
We had 6 players and opted to play as one large group rather than two pods of 3. The 2 games we were able to play were extremely nutty and lethal, with players barely able to establish board states before, 2-3 players down the line, a wrath would go off, forcing players back to square one again.
The partner mechanic wasn't too horribly abused, but it was a definite mistake opening partner to mono colored legends, resulting in Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite getting partnered with Vish Kal, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar being partnered with Gisela. Having both of those mono white cards always available to bi-colored decks presented many challenges to tempo and creature survival!
Public enemy card #1 goes to Expropriate, which has got to be the most disgusting card I have ever seen played. It's resolution secured the game for the Atraxa player at the table, and game 2 was basically spent entirely keeping an eye out for whether that player had enough mana to cast it again. I'd like to keep it in the cube for at least another session, but I can definitely see where folks reservations about the card are coming from!
IMHO, you should keep the wolf run and swap out terramorphic. Wolf run isn't the sexiest card on a cursory look, but it is just so damn good at breaking up board stalls, and turning the most pissant token creature into a huge threat.
It would not surprise me that multiple, different urzas cubes are already present on the site, for you to either try out off the bat, or take on and modify to your liking.
-D
You got the right idea. Seeding each pack with one bi or tri colored legend is how I draft my cube these days too.
I used to do a 5-card generals only pack before the main cube, but my players felt it forced them into a color identity too early in the process. Seeding packs instead has been a much cleaner system for allowing some folks to stay open longer during the draft, while giving other players access to a general that they want to run with for the remainder of the draft + deck building phase.
Leeched Image Removed.
White
- sigarda's aid - under performed; voltron support in the cube continues to diminish.
- sunscorch regent - high cmc cut
- Nahiri, the Lithomancer - under performed
+ Sram's expertise - test for tokens
Blue
- rapid hybridization - victim of cube size reduction
- dramatic reversal - was a test case; better in a dedicated constructed combo deck
- chief engineer - under performer
+ Baral, Chief of Compliance - test
Black
- bloodsoaked champion - under perfomer; frequent cut when at the deck building stage
- Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon - pet card; moved to my constructed edh box (atraxa/saskia infect decks)
~ I will be keeping an eye out for reports on Herald of Anguish and Yahenni's Expertise in edh over the coming months...
Red
- thopter engineer - weak link red card
- thunderbreak regent - on the chopping block for a while; not strong or useful enough for edh cube
- dragon whisperer - low cmc placeholder; may restore as pet card
+ Kari Zev, Skyship Raider - test for low cmc red + tokens + purphoros/pandemonium style decks
Green
- sylvan advocate - under performed in the multiplayer theater
- bow of nylea - under performed; may restore if its multi-part utility becomes relevant again
- see the unwritten - removed to test rishkar's expertise
+ Rishkar's Expertise - test
~ will probably add Rishkar, Peema Renegade to the cube in the next few months.
Multicolored
- Narset Transcendent - under performer
- drogskol reaver - high cmc cut
- shadowmage infiltrator - under performer (shame)
- sire of stagnation - high cmc guild cut
- mind grind - may restore to support reanimator and Lazav strategies
+ breathstealer's crypt - test option for stax/reanimator decks
- master of cruelties - better in constructed
- Sarkhan the Mad - acknowledged weak link card in multiplayer edh
- Savageborn Hydra - unfortunate cut, but a super low pick in drafts and frequent cut during deck building
- Arlinn Kord - weak link in my gruul planeswalker section
- Dauntless Escort - redundant effect with selfless spirit
- Armada Wurm - high cmc cut
- vizkopa guildmage - less relevant than expected
- Kaya, Ghost Assassin - under performer
- Saheeli Rai - better in constructed edh
- Epic Experiment - under performed; would need to reevaluate a lot of the cube to ensure that the critical mass of spells is available for this to be a relevant threat card
- Deathreap Ritual - under performer
- Garruk Relentless - weak link golgari planeswalker
- Goblin Trenches - under utilized; pet card
- Slayers' Stronghold - weak link boros card
- Cold-eyed Selkie - under performer
- Mystic Snake - test, may restore eventually
Artifacts and colorless
- Animation Module - recent addition, but cut
- mindcrank - never became as relevant to reanimator decks as I had hoped
- surveyor's scope - too slow and unreliable ramp for non-green decks
- trading post - may restore
- gauntlet of power - too mono colored focused; better in constructed
- deal broker - not worth the slot unfortunately; end of draft deals usually underwhelming
- thopter assembly - high cmc cut
- command beacon - better in a constructed, very commander-centric build
- mirrorpool - under performer
- sea gate wreckage - under performer
- staff of nin - high cmc cut
+ paradox engine - test; will need to see if this becomes oppressive though...
Also, don't forget to consider cross-color pollination with +1 counters, including cards like chasm skulker, tezzeret's gambit, abzan battle priest, abzan falconer, high sentinels of arashin, drana, liberator of malakir, taurean mauler, sunscorch regent, and gavony township. Just try to keep your overall cmc down, and the archetype should probably gel pretty easily.
Good deal. I'm trying to go the opposite direction with mine; 40-ish cuts on the horizon, and aiming for a super tight 8 person cube.
Some of the rationals behind cuts are
a. Thinning out cards that are better in mono-colored decks (Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, Gauntlet of Power, etc)
b. Cards that are better in more combo-y environments (doubling cube, dramatic reversal)
c. General under performers (bloodsoaked champion, nahiri, the lithomancer, Grim Haruspex, Drana, Liberator of Malakir)
d. Cards from the mythical "artifact.dec" that has just never seemed to materialize (Muzzio, Chief Engineer)
e. Expensive CMC stuff (Drogskol Reaver, Akroma, Angel of Fury)
Any advice on cards that have been better in practice than on paper is certainly appreciated as well!
Possible Cuts:
Scheme 1 (40 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, 2 from each multicolor, 25 colorless cuts
Scheme 2 (40 cards) - 2 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 20 colorless cuts
Scheme 3 (40 cards) - 4 from each of WUBRG, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
Scheme 4 (25 cards) - 1 from each of WUBRG, add booster tutor to black, 1 from each multicolor, 10 colorless cuts
Cuts
1 Sunscorch Regent
1 Oblation
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
1 Sigarda's Aid
1 Valorous Stance
Blue
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Chief Engineer
1 Lighthouse Chronologist
1 Dramatic Reversal
1 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1 Sakashima the Imposter
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Whirler Rogue
1 Thopter Spy Network
1 Vesuvan Doppelganger
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Sewer Nemesis
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Avatar of Woe
Red
1 Abbot of Keral Keep
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
1 Dragon Whisperer
1 Humble Defector
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Thopter Engineer
1 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Sylvan Advocate
1 Tribute to the Wild
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 See the Unwritten
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Narset Transcendant
1 Sire of Stagnation
1 Mind Grind
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Sire of Insanities
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Savageborn Hydra
1 Arlnn Kord
1 Armada Wurm
1 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
1 Necrogenesis
1 Deathreap Ritual
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Cold-Eyed Selkie
1 Trygon Predator
1 Mystic Snake
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Epic Experiment
1 Steam Augery
1 Slayer's Stronghold
1 Goblin Trenches
1 Animation Module
1 Doubling Cube
1 Mindcrank
1 Surveyor's Scope
1 Coercive Portal
1 Ghirapur Orrery
1 Trading Post
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Staff of Nin
1 Thopter Assembly
1 Command Beacon
1 Dark Depths
1 Evolving Wilds
1 High Market
1 Mirror Pool
1 Maze of Ith
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Opal Palace
1 Seagate Wreckage
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vesuva
Thanks very much!
That said, a 4 person, multiplayer Fiora plane-cube sounds like it'd be a really cool, thematic experience! At 180 cards, I'd probably only include ~5 conspiracies and draft constructs, and maybe a smattering of draft matters cards in WUBRG. It'd probably be real easy to just buy a 1/2 box of both conspiracy 1 & 2, and then build a microcube out of the left overs.
I'm pleased that a goodly number of uncommons made the list this time around, but it's interesting to note how few commons and mythics made it on! I'll be paying close attention to folks' limited reviews for cards that may have utterly slipped under the radar on the first pass.
Cheers!
I would recommend completing the cycles of signets, pain lands, check lands, and odyssey duals. IIRC, the guilds are disproportionately represented, so you can always try and flesh out those.
Tri-colored cards frequently turn into dead picks in normal edh draft, so I would advise against adding/retaining too many of those, although 3-colored stuff would probably have a lot more traction when 3 out of 5 of the quad-colored generals can use them. You'd probably just have to see how well they work out.
Finally, I would recommend players draft 60+ card decks instead of full 100 card ones. Drafting enough for 100 card lists takes a miserably long time, and the 67 card decks I normally play with seem to simulate the feel of full edh lists.
Any particular reason you maintain such a large cube? Scanning your cubetutor contents, it seems like there are quite a few cards you could trim, to get a more streamlined edh experience.
-D
I preordered the set of C16 decks, but landed up only needing a very small selection of cards for my normal edh cube. By using some store credit I already had at card kingdom, it only cost about $20 to replenish all the stuff I removed (skate, magus, spymaster, etc), leaving me with the complete 5 precons again.
After playing a couple of games with my group using the unmodified decks, I was so impressed with how they played that I decided to work on something like a budget battlebox/edh cube. Like you, I removed all of the duplicates, cut a bunch of the stinkiest cards in each color and guild, sleeved all the cards in the same protectors, and set aside a duplicate set of command tower, sol ring, commander's sphere, and other cross-deck fixers, in case I want to put together some duel decks.
In addition, I've been diligently following the mtggoldfish "C16 budget upgrades" series, for some inspiration on cheap substitutions and inclusions in the precons. I've spent about an additional $30 or so buying <$5 cards for a separate selection of cards to further augment the lists, many from the aforementioned mtggoldfish folks. Finally, I've pulled a few other good all-round cards from my collection, world championship decks, and cuts from my edh cube that I hadn't gotten around to selling.
My edh cube is starting to get up there in price these days, and I'm getting increasingly leary of brining it to my LGS. The budget C16 cube may land up being a serviceable travel cube instead! I remember back when folks here started discussing building edh cubes, a few of us gave out advice that, in the absence of a well developed edh collection already, you could do a lot worse than jam together all of the commander 2011 decks, make some color balance tweaks, and be in a good position to start a cube. Wizards really did a great job with 2016's crop of decks, and I think those 5 are an even better bedrock to build off of.
Happy cubing!
Played a (probably inadvisable) session last weekend where, in honor of the commander 2016 partner mechanic, we granted partner to all mono and bi colored legends in the cube, provided at least one color matched (example Jhoira of the Ghitu + Prime Speaker Zegana = Temur landed up being what I played).
We had 6 players and opted to play as one large group rather than two pods of 3. The 2 games we were able to play were extremely nutty and lethal, with players barely able to establish board states before, 2-3 players down the line, a wrath would go off, forcing players back to square one again.
The partner mechanic wasn't too horribly abused, but it was a definite mistake opening partner to mono colored legends, resulting in Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite getting partnered with Vish Kal, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar being partnered with Gisela. Having both of those mono white cards always available to bi-colored decks presented many challenges to tempo and creature survival!
Public enemy card #1 goes to Expropriate, which has got to be the most disgusting card I have ever seen played. It's resolution secured the game for the Atraxa player at the table, and game 2 was basically spent entirely keeping an eye out for whether that player had enough mana to cast it again. I'd like to keep it in the cube for at least another session, but I can definitely see where folks reservations about the card are coming from!
Generals ~Archetypes:
1. Prime Speaker Zegana + Jhoira of the Ghitu ~ Suspend, planeswalkers, & Doubling Season
2. Lazav, Dimir Mastermind + Meren of Clan Nel Toth ~ Reanimator/Control with some Notion Thief + Geier Reach Sanitarium Shenanigans (Won game 2)
3. Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter + Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite ~ Mid-Range-ish/Control
4. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight + Thalia, Heretic Cathar ~ tokens, control, stax
5. Dragonlord Atarka ~ tokens, voltron
6. Atraxa, Praetors' Voice ~ board police + haymakers (Won game 1)
/2 cents