Wow this is disgusting. At 2G it’s mostly better than rec sage (Same power, more toughness, more bodies, 2 lifegain) and the 4G mode of killing two permanents+making 4 guys can be extremely good. Bigger options can be quite relevant in G too, and being up to is clutch.
Instant staple at all sizes powered, unpowered might depend more on your environment but the token component alone is decently costed somas long as you have one target you feel quite good about it at amount of mana.
Passes the vindicate test quite well, unlike hero. Will often have better board and damage output after 0 turns (2/1 flyer and 2 damage vs no dudes and 0 damage) and 1 turn (2 2/1 fliers and 7 damage vs 2 1/1s and 7+battle cry damage). After the 2nd attack it’s less damage but opp is likely dead in either case so not super relevant. Has a positive effect without needing to attack itself, evasive body, more easily castable. Main issue obviously being dying to bolts —- if this was a 2WW 3/4 flier it pretty easily beats hero I suspect.
Having played a lot of WW, I suspect this is a top 3 aggressive W 4 drop creature (with Jailer and Hero) and maybe 4th overall W 4 drop creature if you like what Resto does (blink, Kiki, works well with counters, etc). As far as overall W 4s go the competition is super intense. I would not be surprised if this slightly edged out AoZ in aggro, but it’s much less flexible and doesn’t help against sweepers.
Definitely going to test at least, this is quite a powerful package with relatively modest requirements.
Has the same CMC and stats as Flickerwisp, but is easier to cast/slashable and gives a more guaranteed return to its CIP ability.
Flickerwisp has higher upside to its CIP, but given the easier casting cost and better worst case scenario CIP for this card, I could see this guy potentially edging out Flickerwisp. It's probably the card that it's competing with for me at least.
I agree with the “red side is very good” people and the “white side is very good” people. The main “issue” is in deciding where to put it. I would basically count it as .5 of a red 2 drop and .5 of a W 3 drop.
I’m on team Steve_man here. OUAT is awkward since you often have to pay 2, Oath is awkward since it can both whiff on land when you want land and action when you want action. This is a great cantrip in G. You could pass on it if you don’t want to dedicate slots to “low impact” cards but it you do that and you’re playing them in U there!s a bit of dissonance there.
So to summarize my own thoughts on the matter. Yes, library is worse than the other power. No, it isn't a "do nothing card" unless you get in at the start of the game.
Fair. I was using "do nothing" as short hand for "low impact."
Edit - Oh, and I forgot to mention how much more mulligans hurt library compared to every other piece of power.
Also, on an unrelated point, every time I see your icon I see a white duck with an orange bill and have to double-take to realize it's the portal robot.
I would rather have a library in a mulliganed hand than a mox or a time walk, which are also hurt significantly by mulligans. Mox are only better than a basic for each turn where you spend 100% mana and until you miss a land drop, and then they equalize. In a 6 card hand (especially a keepable 6 card hand) it’s much more likely than a 7 card hand that you will net only 1 or 2 total mana out of it vs a basic for the full course of the game. Moxen are also far more likely to be off color (effectively colorless) than lands.
Time walk is also hurt a lot by mulligans, as you’re much more likely to have to fire it off in street wraith mode.
A library on the draw with one mulligan is still absolute disgusting. A library on the play with one mulligan will lead to the correct line being “take 0 game action on t2, draw with library t3, crush them” in plenty of matchups. Even on a double mulligan I’d rather have library than mox or walk. On the play it’s really brutal and probably a wastes barring draw 7s, but on the draw you still only have to skip one turn which is more than worth it on many matchups.
My cube experiences are very heavily slanted toward the mtgo vintage cube, where I’d say library is the best card, followed by crypt and pearl.
It was very interesting to read this thread with 8 years of comments. People seem almost unanimous that it’s great in control and worse in aggro, but I think it’s actually best in white weenie. Library wants a lot of cheap proactive cards so that you can curve draw+land+1 drop turn 2, draw+land+2 drop t3, etc. And it plays poorly with expensive cards or draw spells by rendering them largely unnecessary. Furthermore the WCS of a colorless land is dramatically more impactful the more colors you have, and aggro decks often tend toward mono whereas slower decks often (not always of course) dip into 3+ colors. Finally, most people correctly diagnose the main weakness of the card as the opponent going under you, which is greatly ameliorated by being aggro yourself — in an aggro mirror you out card them without falling behind too much in tempo, and vs control it let’s you keep up in cards while generally getting ahead with cheaper threats and interaction.
Library is absolutely unreal spectacular paired with cards like StP, Mom, Relic-Warder, and Knight errant —— not as much (though still great and usually right to first pick) paired with durdly or mana intensive stuff like JTMS or leovold.
I'm not arguing that Hallowed Spiritkeeper isn't playable or all of those cards are better but when thinking we need to keep the rest of the CMC in mind.
I like Spiritkeeper more than all of these cards except Splicer, Flickerwisp, and Apparition.
Obviously missing the 2/2 body and recursion potential of jailer is a bummer. And it also whiffs when the creature you want to remove derives its power from static or non-tap activated abilities. But it also has some benefits as removal —- it functions even if the monarchy is being passed back and forth, and doesn’t come with awkward potential to retriever opposing etbs.
Overall though being 1 cheaper is a huge benefit, and its monarchy (super strong) attached to something that makes keeping the monarchy much easier. Should be a slam dunk at all sizes imo and one of the strongest blue cards.
Preferably, these spell lands shouldn't cost more than 1 mana over their base effects (unless they can ETB untapped or something). Planar Cleansing isn't even that good since you really can't break its symmetry without Reveillark / Selfless Spirit or something. I think Akroma's Vengeance does everything this card wants to do, but better.
Island signet Vengeance 4 other spells is pretty trash on the play, and island signet this 4 other spells is pretty great.
The wrath side being cheaper is pretty good, but cycling 3mis waaaaaaaaay worse than just being playable as land. It’s definitely doesn’t “do everything this cards wants to do, but better.”
Instant staple at all sizes powered, unpowered might depend more on your environment but the token component alone is decently costed somas long as you have one target you feel quite good about it at amount of mana.
Having played a lot of WW, I suspect this is a top 3 aggressive W 4 drop creature (with Jailer and Hero) and maybe 4th overall W 4 drop creature if you like what Resto does (blink, Kiki, works well with counters, etc). As far as overall W 4s go the competition is super intense. I would not be surprised if this slightly edged out AoZ in aggro, but it’s much less flexible and doesn’t help against sweepers.
Definitely going to test at least, this is quite a powerful package with relatively modest requirements.
Wrath completely depends on how many other effects of its kind you have/want.
Elspeth is super awesome.
I was high on the mystic MDFCs dying spoiler season but they’ve played a lot worse than expected. Call is an easy cut from those 4 imo.
But wisping this guy is so fun 👀
I would rather have a library in a mulliganed hand than a mox or a time walk, which are also hurt significantly by mulligans. Mox are only better than a basic for each turn where you spend 100% mana and until you miss a land drop, and then they equalize. In a 6 card hand (especially a keepable 6 card hand) it’s much more likely than a 7 card hand that you will net only 1 or 2 total mana out of it vs a basic for the full course of the game. Moxen are also far more likely to be off color (effectively colorless) than lands.
Time walk is also hurt a lot by mulligans, as you’re much more likely to have to fire it off in street wraith mode.
A library on the draw with one mulligan is still absolute disgusting. A library on the play with one mulligan will lead to the correct line being “take 0 game action on t2, draw with library t3, crush them” in plenty of matchups. Even on a double mulligan I’d rather have library than mox or walk. On the play it’s really brutal and probably a wastes barring draw 7s, but on the draw you still only have to skip one turn which is more than worth it on many matchups.
My cube experiences are very heavily slanted toward the mtgo vintage cube, where I’d say library is the best card, followed by crypt and pearl.
It was very interesting to read this thread with 8 years of comments. People seem almost unanimous that it’s great in control and worse in aggro, but I think it’s actually best in white weenie. Library wants a lot of cheap proactive cards so that you can curve draw+land+1 drop turn 2, draw+land+2 drop t3, etc. And it plays poorly with expensive cards or draw spells by rendering them largely unnecessary. Furthermore the WCS of a colorless land is dramatically more impactful the more colors you have, and aggro decks often tend toward mono whereas slower decks often (not always of course) dip into 3+ colors. Finally, most people correctly diagnose the main weakness of the card as the opponent going under you, which is greatly ameliorated by being aggro yourself — in an aggro mirror you out card them without falling behind too much in tempo, and vs control it let’s you keep up in cards while generally getting ahead with cheaper threats and interaction.
Library is absolutely unreal spectacular paired with cards like StP, Mom, Relic-Warder, and Knight errant —— not as much (though still great and usually right to first pick) paired with durdly or mana intensive stuff like JTMS or leovold.
I like Spiritkeeper more than all of these cards except Splicer, Flickerwisp, and Apparition.
Overall though being 1 cheaper is a huge benefit, and its monarchy (super strong) attached to something that makes keeping the monarchy much easier. Should be a slam dunk at all sizes imo and one of the strongest blue cards.
Island signet Vengeance 4 other spells is pretty trash on the play, and island signet this 4 other spells is pretty great.
The wrath side being cheaper is pretty good, but cycling 3mis waaaaaaaaay worse than just being playable as land. It’s definitely doesn’t “do everything this cards wants to do, but better.”
Z3N is already looking redonkulous for cube.