MTG Salvation

Thanks for the response.

Standard Abzan midrange (rhino, roc, sorin/elspeth, removal, courser/caryatid) has been a non-issue for me so far; it's the deck I'm happiest to see opposite me by some distance. They aren't winning late, so they need to win early, but you're actually coming out about as fast as they are. Not sure why others are needing the queen; perhaps Kruphix's insight and a better-fuelled eidolon is providing the late-game edge others are getting from hornet queen?

Basically what I was finding with hornet queen was that I was losing to boss sligh, jeskai and heroic lists long before it had a chance to be relevant. It's great in the green mirror, especially, if they don't have doomwake, but that defined it as a sideboard card for me (it's weak where the deck is weak, strong where it is already strong).

Interesting point about whip; I've definitely weakened its recursion ability massively. The mass lifegain from whip has often been critical to survival though; I'm not sure how else I'd get that. Soul of theros maybe? I think there's actually a paucity of decent 4+ mana enchantments, so what is whip being replaced with? Also worth noting when you have this many enchantments, especially two-mana enchantments, whipping back a doomwake can be converted into plague wind surprisingly often. On your point about filling/draining the yard, note most lists run murderous cut as another drain on the graveyard.

Underworld coinsmith is absolutely the weakest card in the deck, wasn't there originally, and is basically a concession to boss sligh murdering me over and over again, though it's also acceptable against jeskai or anyone else likely to throw burn at your head. Siege Rhino is much more expensive than the coinsmith and so doesn't really fill the same role. Nyx-fleece ram I've gone back and forth on, but once again the point of those cards is Boss Sligh; coinsmith is better here because the life-gain is immediate, there tend to be no individually large creatures for a ram to block, and coinsmith often kills things or forces pump spells by blocking. If I was struggling with Abzan at all, I'd play rams since blocking siege rhino is pretty sweet. This is a pair I certainly keep looking at though; pretty much every time I draw coinsmith I'm saying 'would I rather this was a ram' and vice-versa. It wouldn't take a big metagame move for me to flip.

For discussion purposes, it might help to consider my list as partially pre-sideboarded against sligh because cheap mono-red is and always has been more popular online than in paper. If I were going to a paper tournament I would be -3 coinsmith, +1 maggot, +2 hornet queen.

Fair point on the mystics; I will try to experiment with this. Something like -4 mystics, +1 insight, +1 banishing light, +1 land, +1 suspension field might shift the deck correctly. As with all such changes, it's about whether you can survive the fast decks. I do side some number of mystics out a lot. Though insight is probably better thought of as a 7+ mana card.

Quote from AsianGuy1137 »

Has anyone tested or at least considered using Kruphix's Insight in the place of Commune? In a more Constellation-dedicated build that runs some number of Brain Maggots (and maybe even other less optimal enchantment creatures*), it could provide some neat card advantage. On that note, some of the less optimal creatures such as Boon Satyr and Nighthowler are neat for bestowing your Satyrs and Mystics for virtual CA or pushing through midrange stall fests. Nighthowler is especially interesting in the mirror or any other deck that runs Satyr Wayfinder or mill cards such as Sidisi.

I've been absent from MtG in any serious way for a long time, but the idea of trying to play Kruphix's insight caught my attention; this card is really potent card draw for what green normaly gets and goes into a deckstyle that I like very much. After some work, I played two dailies yesterday and two earlier in the week going 1-2, 3-1, 3-1, 4-0. This deck seems really strong, but I've gone much deeper on constellation that most of the other lists I see around, which is interesting.

I'm mostly just grinding out other Courser-based decks or using a barrage of life-gain/removal against the aggro decks until my late-game takes over. Control doesn't really seem to be a factor at the moment I imagine magic online may be a little more skewed towards fast aggro than most metas (I think I played against about 6 fast aggro lists in that 15 matches), which is certainly having an effect; e.g. it is why I cut hornet queen from the main. With that said, I haven't missed it too much. Here's my list:



Feedback welcome.

Collective Blessing

The card requires you to build around it in a big way, but when it catches your opponent out it really catches them out.

This card reminds of prime speaker zegana a lot. Less upside when it resolves and you have a creature in play, but also less downside when you have an empty board or are facing a removal-heavy deck. You can actually cast this after being wiped by verdict/terminus and take over the game, which is a huge weakness in zegana. Only being 1 colour is good as well.

People saying he is unplayable are definately going too far, but he's certainly going to need a specific type of deck to come together in order to be playable (a very similar one to zegana, funnily enough; 24+ creatures and at least half a dozen ramp effects). If standard elves ever becomes a thing, I like having this type of effect in the sideboard.

I think people are well off the mark with post-rotation predictions. Firstly we just don't have enough information to say anything concrete. Secondly, the two most format-defining (and archetype-creating) cards in RTR block are burning-tree emissary and sphinx's revelation. They tell you what you have to do, namely beat turn 4 kill aggro decks and have some plan against slow control decks.

Voice is good against both of those cards and the decks that they spawn; it will be a force in standard for a long time. If anything, the current lack of control makes it a little weaker than you might expect it to be.

Quote from NoHeavenNoHell

Considering ratchet bomb is getting reprinted in M14, and intangible virtue is going away, I think you can pretty much kiss token decks goodbye. Run 'em while you can.

If no one is playing the tokens decks in, say, October, why are people running ratchet bomb? Serious question.

I like it in Jund aggro. BTE-castable, and it works moderately well with something like falkenrath aristocrat.

The card is flexible and strong enough that I could see it helping to spawn something entirely new though (Junk midrange perhaps?).

Seems like a really really strong card. Very efficient creature and a powerful hate bear to boot.

On a more offbeat note, I also like that it adds to what I think could become a critical mass of +1/+1 counter effects. We have quite a few cards that care about that now (renegade krasis, bred for the hunt, exava, rakdos blood witch, zameck guildmage).

Quote from veritoanimus

Considering that Desecration Demon - a 6/6 flying for 4 with a lesser drawback - doesn't see play in standard, Alms beast is unplayable. What's more, Desecration Demon is in the same block and is better in every way, so there's no way that Alms beast would ever see play. There is a chance for Desecration Demon, He's basically an Abyssal Persecutor, but you give up trample to save yourself having to spend a spell killing him. Demon's mana is also less restrictive.

If you look at the post chain I was responding to, we were dealing with whether a vanilla 6/6 for 4 (colours unspecified) would be unplayable. As I said, I'm think that's taking it a bit far, but I don't think such a card would be that powerful.

I wasn't talking about alms beast, which is most certainly not vanilla and is also colour-restrictive.

Quote from Conn

Did you seriously just say a 4CMC 6/6 WITHOUT a drawback is unplayable? Go home sir, you're drunk.

'Unplayable' might be taking it a bit far, but sirgog is right that a vanilla 6/6 for 4 is just not sufficiently high above the curve to be powerful right now. I'd also take deadbridge goliath over a random 6/6 in my deck any day. And the goliath doesn't see any play.

Better question; When is it appropriate to mainphase grisly salvage?

Broadly, two categories:

1. When the cards you see may impact your plays for the turn.

This includes land sequencing; say its turn 3 and you do have a sunpetal grove, but no fourth land. Casting the salvage may well find you a shockland and then you play it immediately, saving you 2 life on the alternative if you need four lands untapped next turn.

2. When you don't want it countered.

As seen in the video. It's worth noting that if you do want it countered, this argument reverses itself. Say the Junk Rites player in the video had a t3 liliana of the veil follow-up (unlikely I know, but it makes the point well). Then baiting the negate might just outright win the game.

Apart from those, you may as well bluff one of the charms or abrupt decay. And sometimes you'll actually have those cards!

Angel of serenity isn't actually that great in a control deck with few/no other creatures, simply because your opponents will finally get to use that dreadbore they've been sitting on for the whole game.

This, of course, is why esper uses nephalia drownyard or PWs as its win condition, not AoS. These finishers are the correct comparision to aetherling.

I would add:

• Far // Away
  
• Bred for the Hunt
  
• Turn // Burn
  
• Deputy of Acquittals
  
• Lavinia of the Tenth
  
• Sin Collector
  
• Unflinching Courage
  
• Ready // Willing
  
• Warped Physique

and remove:

• Flesh // Blood
  
• Gaze of Granite
  
• Savageborn Hydra
  
• Skylasher

A lot of the cards I would add are cards that I think are not quite right at the moment or don't have a deck, but could easily get one at some point in the next year and a half and I'd rather buy them while they are dirt cheap.

Quote from Zanet

In my experience, ramp with EITHER dorks or Farseek makes Junk tokens more viable. The mana fix is unnecessary but the act of ramping makes the deck far more viable. I used to run it without any ramp and got destroyed by mirrors that ran ramp.

In addition, rancor significantly makes tokens more deadly.

That aside, (perhaps it is because my local meta is overcrowded with boardwipes) I do not over extend even in tokens and keeping a flashback lingering souls and THEN dropping VoR with rancor makes the play much more deadly. If they respond to rancor, I lose rancor and VoR but get 2 tokens that I can boost using the lingering souls.

I feel like rancor is working along the right lines if you want to maximise the power of this card. There are a good number of decent effects/cards that mostly suffer from being blown out by instant speed removal, e.g. rancor, silverblade paladin, sublime archangel, wolfir silverhart, domri rade fight ability. VoR is in the right colours to support these cards, and ignoring (say) a silverblade paladin until your turn could be very painful.

That said, the power level is high enough that I don't think you need to build around it to make it viable; it'll just naturally fit in a bunch of decks' maindecks and sideboards as a value 2-drop.

Quote from Sabre

Cavern wasn't in the same block as Snapcaster. Moreover, M13 - which was long before Cavern's AVR - had already an answer for Delver (Thragtusk).

You might want to check those dates/blocks again....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avacyn_Restored

Order is

Innistrad <----Delver of Secrets, Snapcaster Mage
Dark Ascension
Avacyn Restored <----Cavern of Souls
M13
RTR

That said, there's nothing stopping wizards deciding to print an answer to delver/snapcaster mage before releasing innistrad. It doesn't take a genius to work out those are powerful cards that should be kept in check.