I'm looking to put together a list of articles that have either had a large impact on magic or are a "must read". I'm trying to keep them as more theory based, so they will always have the same impact. Any thoughts/imput would be appreciated.
Yup. And isn't losing 30 life pretty minor compared to some of the stuff you have seen? Overwhelming Stampede after an Avenger of Zendikar for 14 Meeples... And you control a Terastodon? 158 damage right there without any landfall stuff.
Setting your life to 10 seems tame.
I think your example is really bad. Sorin shouldn't be banned b/c it's not too strong and it's not unfair, but comparing it (a 6 mana single card) to a 3 card 20 mana combo and saying it is less strong is unusefull.
lets say i want to search for all cards that do damage in a particular format say extended, is there a way to do a search with a numerical variable?
If you click advanced it's easy to figure out. {f:extended} means format and extended and {o:"deal damage"} is looking for all cards that have "deal damage". you can also use {o:"deals 3 damage"} (note the 's' on deals. it searches for exact matches) and also any card with deals and damage that might not be together is {o:deals o:damage}.
Have you thought about makeing a site like this for WOWTCG there isn't one.
Fair enough, still quite easy to just remove the darksteel forge from the game, counter the darksteel forge, deal with however the darksteel forge
I quoted all that i read because I relized that I need to write an essay about every idea for people to get it. I'm not saying that the cards are too good. I was just saying that he was using a really bad example. I think that both of the cards are fine in the format. Also i think mirror is fine. winning the game for 10 mana isn't something that only mirror allows
Panoptic Mirror is banned, its clearly listed on the website's banned list, just figured I would point that out. (Since it was one of the cards you listed and then said that none of them were banned.)
So by "both" you thought I meant the card by itself and not the 2 cards beside each other? You should read twice before posting too.
Even if you're not going for infinite turns, Panoptic Mirror is still terribly broken with any of the good instants or sorceries. Nobody likes the Nevinyrral's Disk/Darksteel Forge lock, so why would they like Mirror/any of the Wrath effects?
I'd like to note that both of these cards aren't banned. so.... is there a point?
Sorry, but is there a link with the full and complete rule list including the new changes and an up to date ban list. I understand the rules has been changed recently but I was hoping to find a newer version by now...
Really? Can you imprint Time Warp on those other cards? Why do you think Panoptic Mirror is broken? Maybe because you can easily set up a 2-card combo to take infinite turns with it?
... did you even read what I was replying too? I was saying that mirror wasn't banned based on replaying a spell one and over or the listed cards would be banned too. I don't think it is broken. Infi turns isn't any better than infi damage. Ban cards like kiki jiki if 2 card combs are too much. winning the game for 10 mana isn't that great if multiple people all don't have an answer. That's how combos work. Please read twice before posting.
Even if you don't think it's a problem, it was for many other people. It was banned for that reason, and that it goes against the flavor of EDH by replaying a single card every turn. You're usually only meant to play each card once, though recursion is still allowed.
lol read this about 2 or 3 time and try to not laugh. Isochron Scepter, Prototype Portal, Soul Foundry, and Spellbinder all do the same thing. Stop trying to justify things with BS. That has nothing to do with it. People making the rules thought Mirror was too good... It's not. Hopefully WotC fixes it.
The problem with Mirror is that it's too easy to take infinite turns. All you need is the Mirror and any of the Time Warp cards, and five mana. With any of the other infinite turn combos, you need three or more cards and more than five mana. The only other two card infinite combo I can think of is Time Vault +any untap effect, and that card is banned as well.
But is infi turns better than infi attackers or infi damage?
Not to mention that there is very little interaction as early as turn five. That doesn't make it fun for everyone else. And when you have these combos available to enable you to win the game, you can be sure that there will be people wanting to get it online as fast as possible.
Cards like survival makes things way easier. You can tutor for it on turn 1 or 2 and play it on turn 2 or 3 and on turn 4 and 5 play combo pieces you get from it. So something like enlightened tutor (plus 2 of any creaturs) turns into a turn 5 win on it's own.
And to stop it, other players would have to put more counters/artifact hate in their decks. You know what that means? That means Panoptic Mirror warped the format, which is the same reason why Emrakul was banned.
People have to play creature removal to stop general damage, people have to play win conditions to not lose. You have to play to beat what other people are playing. If you plan on playing a 5 person game to no one has a card that might win them the game on thier own and you have no other banned cards that are not on the baned list, then you are just playing with people who aren't trying to win.
If you want to believe that WotC had something to with this, then you're free to believe what you want. But until there's proof we can only speculate that it's just a coincidence. The community has been wanting these changes for almost two years now. If you've followed either of the threads on here or the mtgcommander forums, you would know that the rules committee was recently split on changing the Bosh rule.
If people wanted it for 2 years and it didn't happen, the rule committee is bad at what they are doing. If you think they held off for 2 years and WotC took over and in under 2 weeks the change was made to give the people what they have been asking for (for 2 years) without WotC haveing a major hand in the matter, then you are a very naive person.
What would you use to justify what should and shouldn't be banned? Cards that win the game on thier own? All of the cards that I named on the current banned list dont. Cards like Kiki-Jiki aren't banned because "someone should have removal", so why would these cards be any different? Counters/Discard/RFG kokusho/disenchant these cards are powerful, but easy to stop and they are slow.
Biggest problem here is how the rules let you split the mana up: if you wait until the first trigger and stack things correctly, you'll always get to copy your spell at least once (meaning you're never risking anything on that end) and the majority of desirable targets end the game for everyone immediately if they get imprinted successfully. It's worse than it looks, basically.
But is it really more powerful than cards like Kiki-Jiki or any other 2 card combo? Sure it wins the game but so does infi mana or survival + ooze.
With both cards, the problem is the huge advantage gained by the person playing them: they can float as much mana as they want, and generally roll it back into immediately dropping their general (or some other insanely beefy threat) back onto the table immediately, while everyone else is just losing all their mana and discarding like 30 cards at the end of their next turn. They're a pretty bad intersection of powerful and obnoxious.
If someone is able to play a 6 or 10 mana spell and play a threat that has to kill a table of players and no one can deal with it for the next 8 turns that it is killing people then that person should win. someone playing 6+8ish mana in unanswered spells and no one has an answer in 5+ turns should win... if that was the case ban every geed eldrazi. if you play them and no one answers it for 8 turns then everyone dies, right?
You might be the 1st. usually i get horror storys about 8 card combos where no one had a RFG effect or a counter or graveyard hate and someone won after 4 turns of comboing.
Quite a few of those wouldn't even be on the top ten cards most likely to get banned in Commander.
Most of these cards are justifed by the group mentality of we kill the guy that plays turn 1 island crypt thirst and discards sword of the meek. But basing the format on ganging up on perple would make it so that no cards should be banned. Not to mention that if that happens in 1v1 the player wins for sure.
Yes. I just dont play with a bunch of people trying to get the largest mana pool or reach any other achievements. The best way to win a table is to let people fight it out and combo off. If you are waiting for someone to get people out of the way and one of them gets infi mana and draws their deck then you just loose so most of the people I play with are infact trying to win, which I understand isn't everyone, but I think that is what the banned list should be based on. People who dont want to play vs combos, LD, counters or whatever will ban it themselves in thier group. The Banned list should be looking to stop broken decks and card combinations not stopping stuff like 6 card kokusho combos that need 45 mana to win.
You think the ban list is bad? You must be trolling or you seriously underestimate how badly those cards can be abused.
If you want to believe that WotC had something to with this, then you're free to believe what you want. But until there's proof we can only speculate that it's just a coincidence. The community has been wanting these changes for almost two years now. If you've followed either of the threads on here or the mtgcommander forums, you would know that the rules committee was recently split on changing the Bosh rule.
I think that there are some cards on the list that don't need to be banned:
Panoptic Mirror (spend a ton of mana and then get infi turns... sounds like a bad kiki jiki, the "someone should have removal" rule sould apply here)
Upheaval (... slow)
Kokusho (bann as a general but not as a card. nightmare is banned so it's nto broken. If your playgroup is afraid of life gain then they should make up thier own list b/c loseing 5 isn't that bad.
Sway of the Stars (see upheaval)
Cards that are better than every card listed:
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Memery Jar
Mind Twist
Skullclamp
Strip Mine
Survival of the Fittest
Umezawa's Jitte
Life from the Loam
This is why I love EDH! They actually listen to the community. The Colors rule was a long time coming.
Is there any chance that WotC didn't have anything to do with this? EDH has some bad rules and a bad banned list and less than 2 weeks after WotC takes over it starts getting cleaned up... You can call it a coincidence but I 100% sure this didn't come from the guy running EDH.
By the way, Taking a extremely strong card and teaching everyone how to play it. Then, building the best list and telling people why (so a metagame shift will leave them knowing what to do and how to capitalize on it), isn't the way to keep the card from being unrestricted. I will be very impressed if you push gush too far (and its restricted agian), but I think you are giving players to tools to put it over the top.
I'd like to start by saying "I think this will help me be better at magic so I plan on buying this". Secondly, if you plan on doing another one of these, please be brainstorming in legacy. I'm pretty sure if people played brainstorm right 90% of the time it would be ban worthy. I like vintage and have had a blast with the 4 (3 real, 1 10-proxy) times I've play it but, Brainstorm and Legacy are just something I'm more interested in and I think it would appeal to a larger crowd.
if zoos a hard match up and your using thoughtseize thats a problem right there. the life loss is only helping them in the end, as there a damage racing deck so to speak.
Do you think Zoo has cards that only deal 2 damage? If you Thoughtseize anything it will be a profit of life and tempo. Getting their 1 drop or a Price of Progress is way more than 2 life. That could be a Nactal you don't have removal for (6 or 9 damage) that you stopped on turn 1. The fact of the matter is: if you don't have Mox Diamond in your opener, then you don't have many plays turn 1. Thoughtseizeing them will slow down the damage so you can take control.
Thanks
I think your example is really bad. Sorin shouldn't be banned b/c it's not too strong and it's not unfair, but comparing it (a 6 mana single card) to a 3 card 20 mana combo and saying it is less strong is unusefull.
If you click advanced it's easy to figure out. {f:extended} means format and extended and {o:"deal damage"} is looking for all cards that have "deal damage". you can also use {o:"deals 3 damage"} (note the 's' on deals. it searches for exact matches) and also any card with deals and damage that might not be together is {o:deals o:damage}.
Have you thought about makeing a site like this for WOWTCG there isn't one.
So with nothing in play i can still channel Jiwari, the Earth Aflame to kill the painter's servant then Decree of Annihilation or Furnace Dragon to kill all of your stuff right?
I quoted all that i read because I relized that I need to write an essay about every idea for people to get it. I'm not saying that the cards are too good. I was just saying that he was using a really bad example. I think that both of the cards are fine in the format. Also i think mirror is fine. winning the game for 10 mana isn't something that only mirror allows
So by "both" you thought I meant the card by itself and not the 2 cards beside each other? You should read twice before posting too.
I'd like to note that both of these cards aren't banned. so.... is there a point?
http://mtgcommander.net/
This is the new site. just click rules.
... did you even read what I was replying too? I was saying that mirror wasn't banned based on replaying a spell one and over or the listed cards would be banned too. I don't think it is broken. Infi turns isn't any better than infi damage. Ban cards like kiki jiki if 2 card combs are too much. winning the game for 10 mana isn't that great if multiple people all don't have an answer. That's how combos work. Please read twice before posting.
lol read this about 2 or 3 time and try to not laugh. Isochron Scepter, Prototype Portal, Soul Foundry, and Spellbinder all do the same thing. Stop trying to justify things with BS. That has nothing to do with it. People making the rules thought Mirror was too good... It's not. Hopefully WotC fixes it.
But is infi turns better than infi attackers or infi damage?
Cards like survival makes things way easier. You can tutor for it on turn 1 or 2 and play it on turn 2 or 3 and on turn 4 and 5 play combo pieces you get from it. So something like enlightened tutor (plus 2 of any creaturs) turns into a turn 5 win on it's own.
People have to play creature removal to stop general damage, people have to play win conditions to not lose. You have to play to beat what other people are playing. If you plan on playing a 5 person game to no one has a card that might win them the game on thier own and you have no other banned cards that are not on the baned list, then you are just playing with people who aren't trying to win.
Is this sheldon (spelling might be wrong)? You seem extremely upset at the thought that Commander isn't perfect.
If people wanted it for 2 years and it didn't happen, the rule committee is bad at what they are doing. If you think they held off for 2 years and WotC took over and in under 2 weeks the change was made to give the people what they have been asking for (for 2 years) without WotC haveing a major hand in the matter, then you are a very naive person.
What would you use to justify what should and shouldn't be banned? Cards that win the game on thier own? All of the cards that I named on the current banned list dont. Cards like Kiki-Jiki aren't banned because "someone should have removal", so why would these cards be any different? Counters/Discard/RFG kokusho/disenchant these cards are powerful, but easy to stop and they are slow.
But is it really more powerful than cards like Kiki-Jiki or any other 2 card combo? Sure it wins the game but so does infi mana or survival + ooze.
If someone is able to play a 6 or 10 mana spell and play a threat that has to kill a table of players and no one can deal with it for the next 8 turns that it is killing people then that person should win. someone playing 6+8ish mana in unanswered spells and no one has an answer in 5+ turns should win... if that was the case ban every geed eldrazi. if you play them and no one answers it for 8 turns then everyone dies, right?
You might be the 1st. usually i get horror storys about 8 card combos where no one had a RFG effect or a counter or graveyard hate and someone won after 4 turns of comboing.
Most of these cards are justifed by the group mentality of we kill the guy that plays turn 1 island crypt thirst and discards sword of the meek. But basing the format on ganging up on perple would make it so that no cards should be banned. Not to mention that if that happens in 1v1 the player wins for sure.
Yes. I just dont play with a bunch of people trying to get the largest mana pool or reach any other achievements. The best way to win a table is to let people fight it out and combo off. If you are waiting for someone to get people out of the way and one of them gets infi mana and draws their deck then you just loose so most of the people I play with are infact trying to win, which I understand isn't everyone, but I think that is what the banned list should be based on. People who dont want to play vs combos, LD, counters or whatever will ban it themselves in thier group. The Banned list should be looking to stop broken decks and card combinations not stopping stuff like 6 card kokusho combos that need 45 mana to win.
I think that there are some cards on the list that don't need to be banned:
Panoptic Mirror (spend a ton of mana and then get infi turns... sounds like a bad kiki jiki, the "someone should have removal" rule sould apply here)
Upheaval (... slow)
Kokusho (bann as a general but not as a card. nightmare is banned so it's nto broken. If your playgroup is afraid of life gain then they should make up thier own list b/c loseing 5 isn't that bad.
Sway of the Stars (see upheaval)
Cards that are better than every card listed:
Mana Crypt
Sol Ring
Memery Jar
Mind Twist
Skullclamp
Strip Mine
Survival of the Fittest
Umezawa's Jitte
Life from the Loam
I think the inconsistance is the problem.
Is there any chance that WotC didn't have anything to do with this? EDH has some bad rules and a bad banned list and less than 2 weeks after WotC takes over it starts getting cleaned up... You can call it a coincidence but I 100% sure this didn't come from the guy running EDH.
thanks
Do you think Zoo has cards that only deal 2 damage? If you Thoughtseize anything it will be a profit of life and tempo. Getting their 1 drop or a Price of Progress is way more than 2 life. That could be a Nactal you don't have removal for (6 or 9 damage) that you stopped on turn 1. The fact of the matter is: if you don't have Mox Diamond in your opener, then you don't have many plays turn 1. Thoughtseizeing them will slow down the damage so you can take control.