It's not really a runaway since Wasteland is not a first pick type card (e.g. Jitte, Recurring Nightmare). But none of the other cards are as good as Wasteland. Other than being able to make the cut in almost every deck, Wasteland is a very desirable card in an aggressive deck that's looking to play Char.
Aftershock is costed very competitively for red. And though Red doesn't need a card like this in constructed, red does have problems destroying huge fat monsters in cube. And versatility is king in cube.
I'm not cutting counterspells. I just wanted to make clear my stance on counters. Counters are over-rated imo. This isn't EDH where ppl are only playing one giant haymaker-type spell a turn and card-draw/counters dominate. Remember when Counterspell was legal in extended and it wasn't even top 5 best blue card (Gifts Ungiven, Counterbalance, Spell Snare, Thirst for Knowledge, Threads of Disloyalty, Trinket Mage, Narcomoeba, Mind's Desire). A blue deck's success so far has been correlated to steal effects and wrath effects.
Everything in the cube can be powerful when played correctly. Counters can be misplayed just like Balance.
eidolon:
Most of the time, it's easy to draft more than 4 artifacts so I'm factoring it in. In my experience, it's been possible to draft decks similar to one Budde won worlds with '99 alongside Covetous. Please keep in mind, I'm also going to add Rorix back in and going to get a Flameblast. I tried to make Predator Dragon work, but it was just a not nearly as good Rorix.
Morphling is 5/1 vigilance, shroud, flying if you're willing to spend 5 mana a turn on him. Let's not talk about him anymore.
DerBK:
Do you have anymore suggestions about more cards before I do some shopping/trading and do a big cube update? I'm glad that I'm getting your feedback because it's helpful. We have differing opinions on the game. I understand your points, but will disagree on some things because of fundamentals- not sure if it's the right word for it.
Every card has more than one answer, yet WOTC still bans and restricts cards. It seems logical to me to not include some cards for power level. Moat makes for a non-interactive game. Why even put it in the cube even though I have multiple flying creatures and enchantment removal? IMO, it's p9 and fast artifact mana that leads to non-interactive games. As a cube designer, why provide the tools which produce non-interactive games?
I will add COB. I'm just being nitpicky, but City of Brass is not the best fixer. In a format like vintage, where card slots are at such a premium, how come City of Brass isn't played en masse? After all, it fixes 5 colors and takes up just one slot! It's b/c you don't need every land to fix 5 colors. You just need to be able to fix your mana with the lands you have in play. That's how I feel about most of the 3-5cc decks that do get drafted, especially since I play so many lands.
Mana Leak is bad. But since it functions similar to counterspell in the current metagame and card pool, is played. Yes, it counters in the early-mid game, but so does Counterspell. Mana Leak in the late-game (which it will get into) in the Tezzeret mirror....
DerBK:
City of Brass will go into my cube when I get a foil one. But it's not better than duals and fetches when it comes to fixing mana. It's also not as good at fixing for W/B as Fetid Heath. City of Brass, though good, just isn't the nuts that everyone is saying it is.
wtwlf:
Not everything is going to get around Stuffy Doll. For example, Blastoderm is a really good attacker (and blocker, but if that's what he's being used for, you're probably lossing). Stuffy Doll is a good blocker. I don't see why Stuffy Doll can't be in the cube since I have enough space for him and he's not cutting a good card. Not everything is going to get around Stuffy Doll.
magicmerl:
I think wtwlf's arguments point to exactly why Masticore is such a better card than Stuffy Doll. There is no comparison for defense and offense. Masticore's upkeep is negligible. 4/4 for 4 with 2 abilities. He's undercosted even with upkeep. You almost never see x/x for x @ artifact.
Flameblast Dragon seems like a good add that I've missed with the recent sets. But it's not going to compete with Covetous Dragon for space. I just don't think it's a sub-par card. For a sub-par cube, look no further than Morphling,imo, which I see in many other cubes.
Opt and Impulse are the same type of card and since I don't look forward to getting Impulse, I'll cut Opt too. They just don't do a lot. If I'm blue, I'm not holding my mana on turn 2 to bluff a counterspell or hope I can cast Impulse. I want to play a signet. There's not much worth countering on turn 2 anyways.
The only counterspell that is truly overpowered in Mana Drain. Daze, Drain, FOW, Cryptic, Spell Snare, & Counterbalance what else is truly played in constructed (other than Mana Leak out of sheer necessity)? Counterspells are over-rated. The main reason to play blue in cube is creature steal and the fact that blue's creatures are just as good as the other colors' creatures.
Maelstrom Nexus does seem like a sicker 5cc add than Maelstrom Archangel.
Covetous Dragon is 5 mana and 1 red. So easy to splash and it's too easy having more than 1 artifact in play. Against black, black doesn't have artifact removal. It also gets easier to play in game 2 after you know more of the artifact removal in the other player's deck.
I like Foresee and it's splashable, counterspells are over-rated. Unless you're stopping stuff like Armageddon. Why play Impulse and suggest cutting Opt?
Stuffy Doll is pretty good when they can't remove it. As a defensive creature and offensive with Rolling Earthquake. Exile effects kill non-indestructable creatures too.
With enough lands, City of Brass becomes unnecessary when you want to fix colors. It might be a boon to help 2 color aggro decks. I'll give it a try. Pendelhaven seems pretty weak.
Me either... Jitte is 10x better than Shackles. And Monolith is fantastic... but I think you were being sarcastic there.
Jitte isn't as good as Sword of Fire and Ice in my experience. SOFI equiped ends games quicker since you get that bonus up front, especially with evasion. SOFI even grants evasion. Jitte equipped, especially on a weenie, doesn't do as much since the weenie might not even survive its attack post combat.
How does Jitte mess up combat anymore than Shackles?
To Eidolon, thanks for the suggestions. I have questions though.
Land:
1. Fetid Heath is the only filter I want, because W/B has such restrictive mana costs.
2. I like having ~2 lands per booster. Accordingly, my fixing is so strong that City of Brass, T Expanse would be weak.
Gold:
1. Thanks for the Blazing Spec, Deso Angel, and Oona suggestions. They are superior choices. Never heard of Soltari Guer, but I will try to get him now that I know.
2. I already have Mystic Snake, fixed.
3. If I were to cut Teeg, wouldn’t I cut Glare of Subdual first?
4. An x-spell is better than a pinger in my cube so I would like to keep Invoke and Maelstrom Archangel is easy to cast if you want to draft her in my cube. I have many lands.
Artifacts:
1. Warhammer and Icy seems really good. Will add.
2. You don’t like Stuffy Doll?
White:
1. Mindscensor, Tithe, Renewed Faith will be cut in favor of Journey to Nowhere and Kor Santifiers.
2. How come suggest 2 drops fliers when you suggest cutting so many 2 drop knights and maybe Honor of the Pure and Crusade?
3. Mageta is so weak, especially when there is Knight Captain of Eos and token pumps (Crusade, Mirari’s Wake, etc.)
Blue:
1. I won’t play Bribery or Desertion, blue doesn’t need more incentives. And Bribery can’t be play around (aka, having Sower/enchantment removal before playing a fatty).
2. Foresee seems like better card selection than Impulse, why sugggest Impulse and then cut Foresee?
3. Would Sphinx of Steel Wind be better Tinker target in my cube than Inkwell, since my fixing is very good? But I can play both. You're right, Inkwell is reasonably castable.
Black:
1. No excuse for missing Doom Blade, but my bad. I’ll add.
2. I have a lot of the stuff you suggested already in. I really like Persecute. Has it been good in your cube? It does lots in mine.
Red:
1. Goblin Guide seems better than a lot of stuff I have for 1-drop. I’ll add soon.
2. Why do you suggest cutting ball Lightning and Blistering Firecat?
3. Rorix is better than Predator Dragon, I will revert back to the former. It was just an experiment. J
4. How come Covetous Dragon hasn’t worked for you? It’s a monster in my cube. Signets are high picks after all.
Green:
1. KotNT is already in, fixed. One of the few ways to beat for Green to beat steal effects, except Bribery will still nab him. One of the reasons why I don’t like Bribery.
2. Scute Mob would be an excellent add.
For every reason listed above, Vedalken Shackles will never be in my cube.
Playing against Vedalken Shackles is one of the most frustrating uphill battles any magic player can face, period. Even a Brooding Saurian in play won't help. Losing to it is a lesson in futility, draft blue or lose.
I need an audit on my OP since some of the suggestions from eidolon are actually in my cube put didn't make the edit transition. (e.g. Vampire Nighthawk) I like some of eidolon's suggestions and will comment later.
So far, thanks for the input. I was afraid that no one would help me...lonely face.
So, basically you want to add in cards that made a splash in a significant constructed manner, or cards that fill the role in the cube? Sounds like you want to use good cards in general.
For nearly card that 'should' be in a cube, it either fills an important role (I might argue that they all do), and/or it was successful in construed. I guess my point is that you're policy probably doesn't actually influence cards that go in as much as you might think.
I think it definitely helps in the process. For instance:
Temporal Isolation
Journey to Nowhere
Soltari Trooper
Mistrial Charger
Stormfront Pegasus
Flickerwisp
Kor Sanctifiers
Galepowder Mage
Archon of Justice
World Queller
I'm sure they're all good cards in their own ways, but how many are constructed playable @ their printing? There is a definite difference. The cube only has so much space, even larger ones, that I would keep constructed playables and/or constructed has-beens before "good cards."
A big example are wedge (3 color gold) cards. I know some cubes try to play an equal amount for each wedge to keep color balance. But in my mind, why play a "good/role-player" card just to keep the illusion of balance. Fungal Shambler/Vorosh isn't going to be as good Doran, the Siege Tower. Shambler has it's niche and Vorosh is a big dragon-- and dragons are always high-picks in a limited format.
Both the half mana and targeting of rare cards only is exactly what I'd call "strange mechanics". And yes, I'm in the camp of players that hate the "Un-" cards. They don't feel like real cards, and I don't have fun using them.
I know some players who include City of Ass. It's pretty much a playable rupture spire, but I'm sure 5-color decks don't need anymore help. How about an okay un-card like Blast from the Past?
Wow, 2 cards from complete pimp! Foil or foreign or both? I'm still a good bit away from foiling.
Hopefully you can find something you like (baneslayer?).
I actually have Decree of Justice and Ranger of Eos. I'll make sure to make an edit.
Of the suggestions, I think Kor Skyfisher and Baneslayer Angel would be includes. I plan on getting a Baneslayer, but the card isn't very crucial to cube so I can wait. World Queller seems very interesting. I have enough creatures especially 2 drops and top end of white's curve has enough win conditions.
I wouldn't consider adding some of the defensive cards such as Ghostly Prison for the same reasons I took out Teferi's Moat.
Also in general, I wouldn't add a card to my cube unless it made the top 8 of a high-profile constructed event unless it can play an integral part of the cube (ie Blast from the Past, Azorius Guildmage).
I should have prefaced my suggestion by stating that my personal preferences which I build my cube. Generally, I would choose to cut one card for a more interesting card as long as the difference in power was not considerable. I cut Black Knight and all of the black-pump knights from my cube because it felt like black had a lot of depth at the 2 drop-spot that could fill the void and do more interesting things.
Bloodghast does have a better edge against blue and imo is generally a more interesting card. I am sure that in the future with the printing of future sets his ability can be further exploited. So far in my drafts, Bloodghast has killed a couple of blue players that couldn't deal with it in time and another player built a B/R deck featureing Jokulhaups and Greater Gargardon.
I think Black Knight is cubable card for sure. The primary reason I cut him was for flavor reasons. I let white keep their pro-color knights. Since WOTC printed Silver Knight, it felt more flavorful to allow white keep pro as a big theme in their weenie creatures.
Similarly, Blood Knight (color-shifted Silver Knight) is not very interesting either, but red doesn't have nearly the amount of quality 2 drops and first-strike is better in red than in black.
It's not really a runaway since Wasteland is not a first pick type card (e.g. Jitte, Recurring Nightmare). But none of the other cards are as good as Wasteland. Other than being able to make the cut in almost every deck, Wasteland is a very desirable card in an aggressive deck that's looking to play Char.
I'm not cutting counterspells. I just wanted to make clear my stance on counters. Counters are over-rated imo. This isn't EDH where ppl are only playing one giant haymaker-type spell a turn and card-draw/counters dominate. Remember when Counterspell was legal in extended and it wasn't even top 5 best blue card (Gifts Ungiven, Counterbalance, Spell Snare, Thirst for Knowledge, Threads of Disloyalty, Trinket Mage, Narcomoeba, Mind's Desire). A blue deck's success so far has been correlated to steal effects and wrath effects.
Everything in the cube can be powerful when played correctly. Counters can be misplayed just like Balance.
eidolon:
Most of the time, it's easy to draft more than 4 artifacts so I'm factoring it in. In my experience, it's been possible to draft decks similar to one Budde won worlds with '99 alongside Covetous. Please keep in mind, I'm also going to add Rorix back in and going to get a Flameblast. I tried to make Predator Dragon work, but it was just a not nearly as good Rorix.
Morphling is 5/1 vigilance, shroud, flying if you're willing to spend 5 mana a turn on him. Let's not talk about him anymore.
DerBK:
Do you have anymore suggestions about more cards before I do some shopping/trading and do a big cube update? I'm glad that I'm getting your feedback because it's helpful. We have differing opinions on the game. I understand your points, but will disagree on some things because of fundamentals- not sure if it's the right word for it.
Every card has more than one answer, yet WOTC still bans and restricts cards. It seems logical to me to not include some cards for power level. Moat makes for a non-interactive game. Why even put it in the cube even though I have multiple flying creatures and enchantment removal? IMO, it's p9 and fast artifact mana that leads to non-interactive games. As a cube designer, why provide the tools which produce non-interactive games?
I will add COB. I'm just being nitpicky, but City of Brass is not the best fixer. In a format like vintage, where card slots are at such a premium, how come City of Brass isn't played en masse? After all, it fixes 5 colors and takes up just one slot! It's b/c you don't need every land to fix 5 colors. You just need to be able to fix your mana with the lands you have in play. That's how I feel about most of the 3-5cc decks that do get drafted, especially since I play so many lands.
Mana Leak is bad. But since it functions similar to counterspell in the current metagame and card pool, is played. Yes, it counters in the early-mid game, but so does Counterspell. Mana Leak in the late-game (which it will get into) in the Tezzeret mirror....
City of Brass will go into my cube when I get a foil one. But it's not better than duals and fetches when it comes to fixing mana. It's also not as good at fixing for W/B as Fetid Heath. City of Brass, though good, just isn't the nuts that everyone is saying it is.
wtwlf:
Not everything is going to get around Stuffy Doll. For example, Blastoderm is a really good attacker (and blocker, but if that's what he's being used for, you're probably lossing). Stuffy Doll is a good blocker. I don't see why Stuffy Doll can't be in the cube since I have enough space for him and he's not cutting a good card. Not everything is going to get around Stuffy Doll.
magicmerl:
I think wtwlf's arguments point to exactly why Masticore is such a better card than Stuffy Doll. There is no comparison for defense and offense. Masticore's upkeep is negligible. 4/4 for 4 with 2 abilities. He's undercosted even with upkeep. You almost never see x/x for x @ artifact.
Flameblast Dragon seems like a good add that I've missed with the recent sets. But it's not going to compete with Covetous Dragon for space. I just don't think it's a sub-par card. For a sub-par cube, look no further than Morphling,imo, which I see in many other cubes.
Opt and Impulse are the same type of card and since I don't look forward to getting Impulse, I'll cut Opt too. They just don't do a lot. If I'm blue, I'm not holding my mana on turn 2 to bluff a counterspell or hope I can cast Impulse. I want to play a signet. There's not much worth countering on turn 2 anyways.
The only counterspell that is truly overpowered in Mana Drain. Daze, Drain, FOW, Cryptic, Spell Snare, & Counterbalance what else is truly played in constructed (other than Mana Leak out of sheer necessity)? Counterspells are over-rated. The main reason to play blue in cube is creature steal and the fact that blue's creatures are just as good as the other colors' creatures.
Maelstrom Nexus does seem like a sicker 5cc add than Maelstrom Archangel.
Covetous Dragon is 5 mana and 1 red. So easy to splash and it's too easy having more than 1 artifact in play. Against black, black doesn't have artifact removal. It also gets easier to play in game 2 after you know more of the artifact removal in the other player's deck.
I like Foresee and it's splashable, counterspells are over-rated. Unless you're stopping stuff like Armageddon. Why play Impulse and suggest cutting Opt?
Stuffy Doll is pretty good when they can't remove it. As a defensive creature and offensive with Rolling Earthquake. Exile effects kill non-indestructable creatures too.
With enough lands, City of Brass becomes unnecessary when you want to fix colors. It might be a boon to help 2 color aggro decks. I'll give it a try. Pendelhaven seems pretty weak.
Jitte isn't as good as Sword of Fire and Ice in my experience. SOFI equiped ends games quicker since you get that bonus up front, especially with evasion. SOFI even grants evasion. Jitte equipped, especially on a weenie, doesn't do as much since the weenie might not even survive its attack post combat.
How does Jitte mess up combat anymore than Shackles?
Land:
2. I like having ~2 lands per booster. Accordingly, my fixing is so strong that City of Brass, T Expanse would be weak.
Gold:
2. I already have Mystic Snake, fixed.
3. If I were to cut Teeg, wouldn’t I cut Glare of Subdual first?
4. An x-spell is better than a pinger in my cube so I would like to keep Invoke and Maelstrom Archangel is easy to cast if you want to draft her in my cube. I have many lands.
Artifacts:
2. You don’t like Stuffy Doll?
White:
2. How come suggest 2 drops fliers when you suggest cutting so many 2 drop knights and maybe Honor of the Pure and Crusade?
3. Mageta is so weak, especially when there is Knight Captain of Eos and token pumps (Crusade, Mirari’s Wake, etc.)
Blue:
2. Foresee seems like better card selection than Impulse, why sugggest Impulse and then cut Foresee?
3. Would Sphinx of Steel Wind be better Tinker target in my cube than Inkwell, since my fixing is very good? But I can play both. You're right, Inkwell is reasonably castable.
Black:
2. I have a lot of the stuff you suggested already in. I really like Persecute. Has it been good in your cube? It does lots in mine.
Red:
2. Why do you suggest cutting ball Lightning and Blistering Firecat?
3. Rorix is better than Predator Dragon, I will revert back to the former. It was just an experiment. J
4. How come Covetous Dragon hasn’t worked for you? It’s a monster in my cube. Signets are high picks after all.
Green:
2. Scute Mob would be an excellent add.
Playing against Vedalken Shackles is one of the most frustrating uphill battles any magic player can face, period. Even a Brooding Saurian in play won't help. Losing to it is a lesson in futility, draft blue or lose.
I need an audit on my OP since some of the suggestions from eidolon are actually in my cube put didn't make the edit transition. (e.g. Vampire Nighthawk) I like some of eidolon's suggestions and will comment later.
So far, thanks for the input. I was afraid that no one would help me...lonely face.
I think it definitely helps in the process. For instance:
Temporal Isolation
Journey to Nowhere
Soltari Trooper
Mistrial Charger
Stormfront Pegasus
Flickerwisp
Kor Sanctifiers
Galepowder Mage
Archon of Justice
World Queller
I'm sure they're all good cards in their own ways, but how many are constructed playable @ their printing? There is a definite difference. The cube only has so much space, even larger ones, that I would keep constructed playables and/or constructed has-beens before "good cards."
A big example are wedge (3 color gold) cards. I know some cubes try to play an equal amount for each wedge to keep color balance. But in my mind, why play a "good/role-player" card just to keep the illusion of balance. Fungal Shambler/Vorosh isn't going to be as good Doran, the Siege Tower. Shambler has it's niche and Vorosh is a big dragon-- and dragons are always high-picks in a limited format.
I know some players who include City of Ass. It's pretty much a playable rupture spire, but I'm sure 5-color decks don't need anymore help. How about an okay un-card like Blast from the Past?
Wow, 2 cards from complete pimp! Foil or foreign or both? I'm still a good bit away from foiling.
I actually have Decree of Justice and Ranger of Eos. I'll make sure to make an edit.
Of the suggestions, I think Kor Skyfisher and Baneslayer Angel would be includes. I plan on getting a Baneslayer, but the card isn't very crucial to cube so I can wait. World Queller seems very interesting. I have enough creatures especially 2 drops and top end of white's curve has enough win conditions.
I wouldn't consider adding some of the defensive cards such as Ghostly Prison for the same reasons I took out Teferi's Moat.
Also in general, I wouldn't add a card to my cube unless it made the top 8 of a high-profile constructed event unless it can play an integral part of the cube (ie Blast from the Past, Azorius Guildmage).
Bloodghast does have a better edge against blue and imo is generally a more interesting card. I am sure that in the future with the printing of future sets his ability can be further exploited. So far in my drafts, Bloodghast has killed a couple of blue players that couldn't deal with it in time and another player built a B/R deck featureing Jokulhaups and Greater Gargardon.
I think Black Knight is cubable card for sure. The primary reason I cut him was for flavor reasons. I let white keep their pro-color knights. Since WOTC printed Silver Knight, it felt more flavorful to allow white keep pro as a big theme in their weenie creatures.
Similarly, Blood Knight (color-shifted Silver Knight) is not very interesting either, but red doesn't have nearly the amount of quality 2 drops and first-strike is better in red than in black.
Niv-Mizzet is a cool card and very powerful at the same time, I wouldn't want to replace it with a card like Spellbound Dragon.