What do you think about Wrenn and Six Umtiger? I play Restore in my ist, which seems very similar. Is it worth it? It's probably going to get killed after one round, but you do get the upside of gaining some life, or a chance of it surviving.
Also do you think Hall of Heliod is good enough? I run 6 enchantments, all very essential pieces to the game-plan. I'd like to compare it to Academy Ruins, the difference being that Ruins gets back artifacts that sacrifice themselves (in my list I run both Expedition Map and Oblivion Stone). I just feel like I'm already running to many non-colored-producing lands as it is, don't know if I can or should make room for this one.
So, I think Wrenn and Six is a good card to run, can produce fun interactions, and give decent value (especially for costing only RG. However, my concern with it would be how it's not an "explosive" card. One of the trends in EDH produced by WOTC printed commander decks annually and releasing a Commander Masters/Horizons set annually is the horrible power-creep in the format. Many incremental advantage engines that would have been great 4-5 years ago are merely "good" nowadays.
At the end of the day, I just run whatever I feel like running regardless because you only get so much time to play. Just play what you want. At the moment, I don't have the space to run an engine like Wrenn and Six. But I wouldn't mind cutting something like Trinket Mage or Bringer of the Black Dawn for it. I feel like those two cards have been underperforming for me lately.
Restore is a great card that I'm not currently running. But I have in the past. Man, getting a land from someone else's graveyard has produced some nice interactions for me.
My current decklist only has six enchantments: Sylvan Library, Exploration, Burgeoning, Manabond, Prismatic Omen, and Trade Routes. Exploration is the best card in the deck. It's the card that I never want to dredge into my graveyard and get exiled (well that and an incidental guild gate). Even with only 6 enchantments, I'd still say that Hall of Heliod's Generosity is a slam dunk include. It could've had a better name but I feel the same about Ramnunap Excavator (aka Magus of the Crucible).
With it in your 99, you just get Life from the Loam and go to town until you dredge Volrath's Stronghold and/or Hall of Heliod. Then you recur what you need, be it a Sun Titan/Eternal Witness or Exploration.
What would be your cuts for Wrenn and Hall of Heliod?
I cut Boseiju awhile ago since I don't play against blue counters in my meta. I cut it for Horizon Canopy. Now I will cut Canopy for the Hall.
I thought you guys would love Tectonic Reformation. Giving half your deck cycling seems like a great way to draw a bunch of cards every single turn, not to mention set up critical lands in the yard.
The cost to cycle using Tectonic Reformation is too high. R is a serious cost for a 5-color manabase.
Honestly i'm not too excited about this set. Looks like it give some new toys to already established decks without creating something new.
I don't agree. There's lots of exciting cards and interesting enablers. Giving an Astral Slide deck another Astral Slide is something new because it's hardly established and needing a redundant copy of an important effect is essential for even considering building a deck in the first place.
This card is obviously strong, but Urza isn't locking anyone out or being annoying (i.e. Erayo, Leovold). Urza just means your artifact deck is strong, kinda like how Rofellos means your forest deck is strong.
You are aware Rofellos is banned? I don't think they really do the same thing, but thats a bad analogy if you mean Urza should not be banned.
Yes, I am aware of Rofellos. I just want to say that unless it locks players out, no commander should be banned. Rofellos still being banned is kinda weird.
Urza is just strong. But any stronger than Thrasios? Thrasios does the same thing but is 4 colors and 2cmc.
The issue then becomes what does a "fair" Urza deck look like. It's obviously an artifact-centric deck, probably with cards that produce artifact tokens like Sai, Master Thopterist, Efficient Construction, Thopter Spy Network, Tezzeret, Artifice Master, Genesis Chamber (extra saucy because you can tap it for mana to turn it off on other player's turns), Thopter Assembly), etc. I think that even this kind of deck has the potential for some really strong shenanigans without being annoying.
I don't know what "fair" means, but you can definitely play without being able to make infinite mana or do infinite loops.
Ooh boy, that land is spicy. Possibly Phelddagriffable. And makes me hopeful that we'll see the full cycle completed. Maybe in another 20 years or so, judging from the rate so far.
Green is obviously going to be lands. But will red be planeswalkers or instants? Planeswalkers seems relatively safe, but doesn't really fit red's color pie particularly. Sorceries is (hopefully) off the table given how easy it is to go infinite turns, but is instants possible without being broken? I don't think there's any infinite turn combos, but I might be forgetting something else broken. Obviously 1v1 even recurring counterspell is pretty gross, so maybe it's just not possible.
To stay on theme, these recur-to-the-top lands have to recur a different permanent-type. Volrath's Stronghold (creature) came out in 1998, Academy Ruins (artifacts) in 2006, and this one (enchantments) in 2019. So it's going to be a long time before they come out with the green one for lands. Over/Under at another 8 years?
They might even have a new permanent type by then for red to recur? Or it could get a subtype (e.g. Legendary, snow?)
I just realised as well, effects like null rod doesn't affect urza - it's him who makes the mana, not the artifact itself.
There are a few things about urza that makes him really good. i think his etb effect pushes him somewhat even further than before (it immediately gives you U to 'go off').
I think the thing that's limiting is that he's mono blue. In other words, as a general, you won't be able to thopter foundry/sword of the meek combo. I'm sure there are other combos that are playable in mono blue though.
I guess in a month or so, we'll figure out if urza is bannable - someone will inevitably figure out how to break him, but i doubt it'll come down to it.
At this point, one card doesn't receive a ban just because it's good or breakable. Too many cards fit that criteria.
This card is obviously strong, but Urza isn't locking anyone out or being annoying (i.e. Erayo, Leovold). Urza just means your artifact deck is strong, kinda like how Rofellos means your forest deck is strong.
I'm officially retiring this deck from my roster. It's not fast enough to compete with the Flash Hulk variants in my meta and folds to Kaalia far too often. I'll keep tabs on it occasionally, but it won't be a priority for me.
My concern, is how many EDH staples would become extremely expensive because they’re suddenly legal in Modern.
Can’t think of an example atm, but it’s haunting.
Don't worry, because there are no examples.
Expensive cards used in EDH are already expensive because of EDH or reserve list. And even then, there's many substitutes available that deck building and having fun in EDH don't require massive budgets.
You should be concerned with new powerful cards that are printed that become expensive must haves.
Yeah, when I think about it more thouroughly, Diabolic Intent doesn't seem worth it, is probably too conditional.
Isn't Valakut only playable with Prismatic Omen? I agree that they are fetchable, and therefor probably better (if you're running fetches) then the other cyclers, but not for Valakut reasons, just my opinion though ^^
I mentioned Sheltered Thicket because it does fit into the cycling package. I used to play green and black onslaught cycling because of Urborg. But then I moved to Riftstone Portal and playing green and white cycling only. When Amonkhet came out, I put in Sheltered Thicket because it's fetch able and a mountain.
Valakut is why I play all 10 ABUR duals, but only the 7 red/green shocks. But yes, it's tough to Valakut without Prismatic Omen. However, I have Scapeshifted into a Valakut + red duals before just to deal damage.
So, I think Wrenn and Six is a good card to run, can produce fun interactions, and give decent value (especially for costing only RG. However, my concern with it would be how it's not an "explosive" card. One of the trends in EDH produced by WOTC printed commander decks annually and releasing a Commander Masters/Horizons set annually is the horrible power-creep in the format. Many incremental advantage engines that would have been great 4-5 years ago are merely "good" nowadays.
At the end of the day, I just run whatever I feel like running regardless because you only get so much time to play. Just play what you want. At the moment, I don't have the space to run an engine like Wrenn and Six. But I wouldn't mind cutting something like Trinket Mage or Bringer of the Black Dawn for it. I feel like those two cards have been underperforming for me lately.
Restore is a great card that I'm not currently running. But I have in the past. Man, getting a land from someone else's graveyard has produced some nice interactions for me.
My current decklist only has six enchantments: Sylvan Library, Exploration, Burgeoning, Manabond, Prismatic Omen, and Trade Routes. Exploration is the best card in the deck. It's the card that I never want to dredge into my graveyard and get exiled (well that and an incidental guild gate). Even with only 6 enchantments, I'd still say that Hall of Heliod's Generosity is a slam dunk include. It could've had a better name but I feel the same about Ramnunap Excavator (aka Magus of the Crucible).
With it in your 99, you just get Life from the Loam and go to town until you dredge Volrath's Stronghold and/or Hall of Heliod. Then you recur what you need, be it a Sun Titan/Eternal Witness or Exploration.
What would be your cuts for Wrenn and Hall of Heliod?
I cut Boseiju awhile ago since I don't play against blue counters in my meta. I cut it for Horizon Canopy. Now I will cut Canopy for the Hall.
Here is my current decklist on tapped out: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-02-19-landsdec/?cb=1559407434
But there's always Trade Routes!
I don't agree. There's lots of exciting cards and interesting enablers. Giving an Astral Slide deck another Astral Slide is something new because it's hardly established and needing a redundant copy of an important effect is essential for even considering building a deck in the first place.
He's a very weak commander since he's just a beater and not even faster than Ghalta.
Yes, I am aware of Rofellos. I just want to say that unless it locks players out, no commander should be banned. Rofellos still being banned is kinda weird.
Urza is just strong. But any stronger than Thrasios? Thrasios does the same thing but is 4 colors and 2cmc.
I don't know what "fair" means, but you can definitely play without being able to make infinite mana or do infinite loops.
No Timetwister/Time Spiral/Time Reversal?
To stay on theme, these recur-to-the-top lands have to recur a different permanent-type. Volrath's Stronghold (creature) came out in 1998, Academy Ruins (artifacts) in 2006, and this one (enchantments) in 2019. So it's going to be a long time before they come out with the green one for lands. Over/Under at another 8 years?
They might even have a new permanent type by then for red to recur? Or it could get a subtype (e.g. Legendary, snow?)
This card is obviously strong, but Urza isn't locking anyone out or being annoying (i.e. Erayo, Leovold). Urza just means your artifact deck is strong, kinda like how Rofellos means your forest deck is strong.
Rejoice!
They did it. They finally did it.
So many times I would dredge Life from the Loam and end up with Exploration in the graveyard.
Thankful for the talismans or talismen? Grammar-man, help me out.
Even though our commander is a Planar Cleansing, you will always need outs to things like Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void, etc.
Don't worry, because there are no examples.
Expensive cards used in EDH are already expensive because of EDH or reserve list. And even then, there's many substitutes available that deck building and having fun in EDH don't require massive budgets.
You should be concerned with new powerful cards that are printed that become expensive must haves.
I don't play standard and don't draft. I've only been to one pre-release since Return to Ravnica (2012), so I don't run many new cards.
Well, even with Prismatic Omen, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle as an engine needs more help. You really have to play/build around it as a tactic with fetchlands, Trade Routes, Manabond, Vesuva, Thespian's Stage.
I mentioned Sheltered Thicket because it does fit into the cycling package. I used to play green and black onslaught cycling because of Urborg. But then I moved to Riftstone Portal and playing green and white cycling only. When Amonkhet came out, I put in Sheltered Thicket because it's fetch able and a mountain.
Valakut is why I play all 10 ABUR duals, but only the 7 red/green shocks. But yes, it's tough to Valakut without Prismatic Omen. However, I have Scapeshifted into a Valakut + red duals before just to deal damage.
It's also a forest for Knight of the Reliquary.
Is anyone thinking of Finale of Devastation in addition to or replacing Green Sun's Zenith? It gets Child of Alara from the graveyard!